Carpenter Moving to NSW (which city?)

[nomadiccarpenter]

After a long two and half years having applied for a NSW 190 visa from offshore, I was asked to do medicals for the first time. Now, the idea of moving to Australia doesn't seem so mythological and have to seriously plan now in case my grant is coming soon.

I'm a carpenter - I have two years experience building residential homes. Six years building sets for film and television productions. Everyone seems to want to move to Sydney which leaves me to wonder if I could be overlooking other locations. Are there any other cities I should look into? Newcastle? Wollongong? How about further up the state toward Queensland?

I'm not picky with what kind of work I will undertake. If it falls under carpentry, I'm romantic about about helping build Australia's infrastructure such as rail projects, bridges or even stick to building homes. I imagine the film industry would take quite some time to network my way in, which seems to be Sydney based.

I want to stick to my two year commitment of living in NSW. Planning on duel citizenship eventually, so wouldn't want to cast any negative light by living elsewhere when it comes time to apply. I also admit I'm a bit of an idealist and want to do the "patriotic" thing by staying within the state, but I understand how some struggle to find work in certain states. I lived in Brisbane a year back in 2016 and have visited Sydney twice and worked in Moree, NSW a few weeks.

Thanks for all your support and advice.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by nomadiccarpenter
grammar

[Marisawright]

Your instincts are right.  If you met an Aussie moving to the US, and they said, "Oh, I'm moving to New York because none of the other cities are worth bothering with", what would you say?  

The problem with Sydney is that house prices are DOUBLE every other city and town in NSW, if you compare equivalent properties in equivalent suburbs.  However you can't charge double the price for your work.  That means getting started will be much harder financially in Sydney than anywhere else. 

If you like big city life, then my vote would be Newcastle.  It used to be a horrible old working-class town, and many Australians still have that perception of it, but that was 30 years ago.  There are still depressed suburbs like any other city, but it's a vibrant modern city now.  

Wollongong has been a lot slower to change and I haven't been back for a long time, so I can't offer an opinion.  The strip between Wollongong and Sydney is massively popular with commuters so house prices are ridiculous.  Newcastle is lucky to be that bit further away, and not practical for a daily commute, which keeps prices a bit more manageable!  

There used to be a lot of film industry work on the Gold Coast, so there could be some advantage in basing yourself in the North of NSW near the Queensland border.   I know the rules say you must live and work in NSW, but if you set yourself up in your own business in a NSW town, then I don't think it would be an issue if you have some clients who are in other states. Worth checking what the rules say. 

[nomadiccarpenter]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Your instincts are right.  If you met an Aussie moving to the US, and they said, "Oh, I'm moving to New York because none of the other cities are worth bothering with", what would you say?....

There used to be a lot of film industry work on the Gold Coast, so there could be some advantage in basing yourself in the North of NSW near the Queensland border.   I know the rules say you must live and work in NSW, but if you set yourself up in your own business in a NSW town, then I don't think it would be an issue if you have some clients who are in other states. Worth checking what the rules say. 

Thank you, Marisa. I do plan to end up in Queensland eventually so I'm with you on the Gold Coast or Brisbane area again. In regards to Sydney, I am starting to see it in the same realm of New York and Los Angeles. It's a city that is better to be "invited" to with a job offer, rather than going there with no job. Yet here in the US, NYers will encourage you to be there, it's never been a wise strategy in my experience. Leaning toward being in Newcastle or Central Coast and if an opportunity in Sydney presents itself, preferably a hefty wage, then I could live in Sydney. I do like Sydney and the energy of big cities but trying to be measured after past mistakes.

Any recommendations on towns close to the Queensland border? I like the idea of owning land around a smaller town like Nimbin or Lismore eventually. Just now learning about Tweed Heads. 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Leaning toward being in Newcastle or Central Coast and if an opportunity in Sydney presents itself, preferably a hefty wage, then I could live in Sydney. I do like Sydney and the energy of big cities but trying to be measured after past mistakes.

Any recommendations on towns close to the Queensland border? I like the idea of owning land around a smaller town like Nimbin or Lismore eventually. Just now learning about Tweed Heads. 

Find the right part of Newcastle and you can get a reasonable big-city vibe, though of course it's not quite the same as inner Sydney.   Mind you, if you don't have the income to live in inner-city Sydney, the outer suburbs are far more dreary than Newcastle!

  Central Coast would be too quiet for you I suspect, and if you're thinking of that kind of area, then I'd be more inclined to go North of Newcastle, not south of it.  

Tweed Heads is definitely worth looking at.  It's very, very common for people to live in Tweed Heads and commute to the Gold Coast for work and vice versa.  By Australian standards the distance is trivial.

Take a look at the suburb reviews on Homely to get an idea what places are like https://www.homely.com.au/find-region

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Marisawright

[nomadiccarpenter]

22 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Find the right part of Newcastle and you can get a reasonable big-city vibe, though of course it's not quite the same as inner Sydney.   Mind you, if you don't have the income to live in inner-city Sydney, the outer suburbs are far more dreary than Newcastle!

  Central Coast would be too quiet for you I suspect, and if you're thinking of that kind of area, then I'd be more inclined to go North of Newcastle, not south of it.  

Tweed Heads is definitely worth looking at.  It's very, very common for people to live in Tweed Heads and commute to the Gold Coast for work and vice versa.  By Australian standards the distance is trivial.

Take a look at the suburb reviews on Homely to get an idea what places are like https://www.homely.com.au/find-region

 

I love the vibe of Tweed Heads from what I've learned so far. It's closer to Brisbane where I want to be eventually. I suppose the only issue is the jobs listed on Seek seem to be all in Queensland which might be a problem from my visa conditions (190). Unless like you've mentioned, the employer is NSW based, or I have my own business.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

 I suppose the only issue is the jobs listed on Seek seem to be all in Queensland which might be a problem from my visa conditions (190). Unless like you've mentioned, the employer is NSW based, or I have my own business.

As a carpenter, I can almost guarantee you'll have to set up your own business, because most employers will want to hire you as a contractor, not a direct employee. It's very easy, you just set yourself up as a Sole Trader, apply for a ABN number and off you go.  You will then invoice the businesses you work for rather than being on their payroll. 

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/set-sole-trader

https://www.traderisk.com.au/starting-a-carpentry-business

https://www.flyingsolo.com.au/

There's still the big question of whether the location of your clients will matter for the visa conditions.  The only way you'll get a definitive answer, I think, will be to pay a migration agent for a one-off consultation, unless someone like @paulhand or @wrussell is willing to comment here.

[nomadiccarpenter]

28 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

As a carpenter, I can almost guarantee you'll have to set up your own business, because most employers will want to hire you as a contractor, not a direct employee. It's very easy, you just set yourself up as a Sole Trader, apply for a ABN number and off you go.  You will then invoice the businesses you work for rather than being on their payroll. 

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/set-sole-trader

https://www.traderisk.com.au/starting-a-carpentry-business

https://www.flyingsolo.com.au/

There's still the big question of whether the location of your clients will matter for the visa conditions.  The only way you'll get a definitive answer, I think, will be to pay a migration agent for a one-off consultation, unless someone like @paulhand or @wrussell is willing to comment here.

Good point. Forgot I still have an ABN from my working holiday last time. I do have a migration agent so will go over the final details soon. I won't turn down any thoughts from @paulhand and @wrussell on the fine print of the 190 visa in regards to where my work comes from.

[paulhand]

6 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Good point. Forgot I still have an ABN from my working holiday last time. I do have a migration agent so will go over the final details soon. I won't turn down any thoughts from @paulhand and @wrussell on the fine print of the 190 visa in regards to where my work comes from.

If you have an agent I can’t give you immigration advice … but you should check the ABN is actually still active as they do automatically cancel them after a couple of years of inactivity. 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Good point. Forgot I still have an ABN from my working holiday last time. I do have a migration agent so will go over the final details soon. I won't turn down any thoughts from @paulhand and @wrussell on the fine print of the 190 visa in regards to where my work comes from.

As Paul says, if you've got an agent then it's unprofessional of them to comment.  Ask your agent about whether it matters where your clients are.  

[wrussell]

I have responded several (perhaps more than several) to posts where the OP had retained the services a RMA but not did not mention this.

[Quoll]

Dont ignore Queanbeyan - close enough to Canberra to enjoy the work opportunities (it's hard yakka getting a tradie here at the moment!).  You could do worse!

[nomadiccarpenter]

14 hours ago, paulhand said:

If you have an agent I can’t give you immigration advice … but you should check the ABN is actually still active as they do automatically cancel them after a couple of years of inactivity. 

Understand, thanks Paul. 

[Rallyman]

On 29/10/2022 at 22:04, Marisawright said:

As a carpenter, I can almost guarantee you'll have to set up your own business, because most employers will want to hire you as a contractor, not a direct employee. It's very easy, you just set yourself up as a Sole Trader, apply for a ABN number and off you go.  You will then invoice the businesses you work for rather than being on their payroll. 

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/set-sole-trader

https://www.traderisk.com.au/starting-a-carpentry-business

https://www.flyingsolo.com.au/

There's still the big question of whether the location of your clients will matter for the visa conditions.  The only way you'll get a definitive answer, I think, will be to pay a migration agent for a one-off consultation, unless someone like @paulhand or @wrussell is willing to comment here.

You need a licence to be working and running a business ( Australia likes it’s red tape) 

Most preferably want you as a pty ltd company to abolish any risk of paying super or tax for you  

you will still be required to have income protection working as a sole trader  

many companies are putting people on wages now. 
also construction is quite different in Australia to uk  might be worth reading AS 1684 timber framing codes  to help get you up to speed 

you will also need your white card ( safety course) simple 1 day course. 
there is plenty of work about 

good luck 

 

[nomadiccarpenter]

31 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

You need a licence to be working and running a business ( Australia likes it’s red tape) 

Most preferably want you as a pty ltd company to abolish any risk of paying super or tax for you  

you will still be required to have income protection working as a sole trader  

many companies are putting people on wages now. 
also construction is quite different in Australia to uk  might be worth reading AS 1684 timber framing codes  to help get you up to speed 

you will also need your white card ( safety course) simple 1 day course. 
there is plenty of work about 

good luck 

 

Thanks for the tips. Good to know. I'm from the US, but I imagine it's pretty different in Australia. I like the idea of running my own business but perfectly fine putting in grunt work the first year or two so I can learn how things are done the Australian way. Then move into my own jobs. I'll get things set up posthaste regardless. When you say companies "putting people on wages now," do you mean counting them as employees rather than contractors?

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Thanks for the tips. Good to know. I'm from the US, but I imagine it's pretty different in Australia. I like the idea of running my own business but perfectly fine putting in grunt work the first year or two so I can learn how things are done the Australian way. Then move into my own jobs. I'll get things set up posthaste regardless. When you say companies "putting people on wages now," do you mean counting them as employees rather than contractors?

Yes, that's what he means.  In the construction industry, it used to be more common for people to be employed as a contractor. If you are a contractor, you are "running your own business" as far as Australian law is concerned.  If you had an ABN and issued invoices for your work the last time you worked in Australia, you were running your own business, even though you were working for someone else. 

I didn't realise companies were moving away from employing contractors, but it makes sense.   The whole reason companies started hiring staff as contractors instead of employees was so they could duck their responsibilities as an employer.  If they hire you as an employee, they have to pay sick leave and superannuation and tax. If they hire you as a contractor, they avoid all that.  The government got wise to this and made a rule that said, "If you want to hire someone who'll be working exclusively for you like an employee, then you have to hire them as an employee".  Companies are fined if they don't comply, so they are more careful now about how they hire. 

[Rallyman]

47 minutes ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Thanks for the tips. Good to know. I'm from the US, but I imagine it's pretty different in Australia. I like the idea of running my own business but perfectly fine putting in grunt work the first year or two so I can learn how things are done the Australian way. Then move into my own jobs. I'll get things set up posthaste regardless. When you say companies "putting people on wages now," do you mean counting them as employees rather than contractors?

Yes as an employee 

[Rallyman]

1 hour ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Thanks for the tips. Good to know. I'm from the US, but I imagine it's pretty different in Australia. I like the idea of running my own business but perfectly fine putting in grunt work the first year or two so I can learn how things are done the Australian way. Then move into my own jobs. I'll get things set up posthaste regardless. When you say companies "putting people on wages now," do you mean counting them as employees rather than contractors?

Getting a contractor license is pain 

They won’t accept any overseas qualifications at service nsw who issue them  , you have to get these recognised either through Regagnition of prior learning or a fast track course through master builders and TAFE 

its all money  

Edited October 30, 2022 by Rallyman

[nomadiccarpenter]

10 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Getting a contractor license is pain 

They won’t accept any overseas qualifications at service nsw who issue them  , you have to get these recognised either through Regagnition of prior learning or a fast track course through master builders and TAFE 

its all money  

I suppose my Vetassess Certificate III would count, at least I'm led to believe. Unless that was just to prove my skill to get the visa. I'm making a list of questions for my agent. I've waited so long for the visa that all these questions are popping up left and right after becoming numb to the possibility of moving there actually happening!

[Rallyman]

28 minutes ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

I suppose my Vetassess Certificate III would count, at least I'm led to believe. Unless that was just to prove my skill to get the visa. I'm making a list of questions for my agent. I've waited so long for the visa that all these questions are popping up left and right after becoming numb to the possibility of moving there actually happening!

As said you will have to go through RPL 

I had my apprenticeship indentured papers , city and guilds, craft and advanced craft ( cert IV equivalent) Hnc , still had to do course with master builders and tafe  , I had more years on site than actual age of tafe teacher , his words what the **** are you doing here

 

 

[nomadiccarpenter]

4 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

As said you will have to go through RPL 

I had my apprenticeship indentured papers , city and guilds, craft and advanced craft ( cert IV equivalent) Hnc , still had to do course with master builders and tafe  , I had more years on site than actual age of tafe teacher , his words what the **** are you doing here

 

 

Sounds about right! Thank you, Rallyman.

[Rallyman]

22 minutes ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Sounds about right! Thank you, Rallyman.

All the best 

if I can help send a message 

[wrussell]

As a carpenter, I can almost guarantee you'll have to set up your own business, because most employers will want to hire you as a contractor.

The government is starting to crack down on this caper.

[nomadiccarpenter]

Hey everybody, thanks for all your tips. It's still kind of up in the air on where I'll end up, but I was thinking I may just start off a month in Sydney to get settled. However, the rental market doesn't seem geared toward new arrivals. Very luxury-oriented it seems. There's hostels of course, but I have too much stuff to look after. Worse, flatmatefinders has been a sketchy experience so far, but I know there's still potential for some finds there. I know Sydney is a tough market and for that reason, maybe I'll just hop a bus to Newcastle the day after arriving in Sydney to get my bearings. Any thoughts on the best way to just catch my breath the first month arriving so I can get my act together? Thank you!
Edit: I arrive the 14th of February.

Edited January 30, 2023 by nomadiccarpenter

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, nomadiccarpenter said:

Hey everybody, thanks for all your tips. It's still kind of up in the air on where I'll end up, but I was thinking I may just start off a month in Sydney to get settled. However, the rental market doesn't seem geared toward new arrivals. Very luxury-oriented it seems. There's hostels of course, but I have too much stuff to look after. Worse, flatmatefinders has been a sketchy experience so far, but I know there's still potential for some finds there. I know Sydney is a tough market and for that reason, maybe I'll just hop a bus to Newcastle the day after arriving in Sydney to get my bearings. Any thoughts on the best way to just catch my breath the first month arriving so I can get my act together? Thank you!
Edit: I arrive the 14th of February.

The rental market is a good indicator of what you'll be facing as an ordinary person in Sydney.  Sydney is becoming unaffordable for ordinary folk.    I guess it might be nice to spend a month in Sydney being a tourist, but I wonder why you'd want to burn through so much money when you're going to need it later?

I think I'd be hopping straight on the train (not bus) to Newcastle when you arrive and use that as your base.  Buy a second-hand car and then you're well-placed to cruise up and down the coast, checking out the different places you might want to live.  If you want to be a tourist for a month, Newcastle is a good place to be:  on the doorstep of the Hunter Valley wineries, explore the sand dunes at Anna Bay, go dolphin-watching or surfing at Port Stephens or take a houseboat at Tea Gardens, sail on Lake Macquarie, just for a start.

[nomadiccarpenter]

On 30/01/2023 at 22:47, Marisawright said:

The rental market is a good indicator of what you'll be facing as an ordinary person in Sydney.  Sydney is becoming unaffordable for ordinary folk.    I guess it might be nice to spend a month in Sydney being a tourist, but I wonder why you'd want to burn through so much money when you're going to need it later?

I think I'd be hopping straight on the train (not bus) to Newcastle when you arrive and use that as your base.  Buy a second-hand car and then you're well-placed to cruise up and down the coast, checking out the different places you might want to live.  If you want to be a tourist for a month, Newcastle is a good place to be:  on the doorstep of the Hunter Valley wineries, explore the sand dunes at Anna Bay, go dolphin-watching or surfing at Port Stephens or take a houseboat at Tea Gardens, sail on Lake Macquarie, just for a start.

Thanks Marisa. I forgot to come back to this thread, but you and I were on the same wave-length. I'm going to stay a night in Sydney to rest, then take a bus the next day to Newcastle for a two week Airbnb to get my bearings. Plus, the wages for carpenters seems comparable. Also wanting to learn other skills so it looks like a somewhat affordable place to do it. Could end up being home, who knows!