UK's Migration Falls

[Gbye grey sky]

On 03/06/2017 at 01:11, newjez said:

I think the rift is between the USA and the rest of the world.

Not quite.  Trump seems to have found kinship with autocrats in Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the Philippines.

[Gbye grey sky]

14 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

erm don't think so .

come the crunch ,the countries mentioned previously will be on side

To be fair Trump appears to be a unifying force for many people of the world.  Mexicans have never been so united in their mutual loathing.  The same applies in Germany and most of Europe.  Will May still press on with that misguided State visit invitation if she hangs on to a majority I wonder?

What Trump has achieved in a short time as President is miraculous.  He has diminished the most powerful nation on earth further and quicker than anyone would have thought possible. 

[BacktoDemocracy]

11 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

not relishing it by any means ...just pointing out that trouble is brewing , the sides are being created.

trump - brexit ,it all has to be ..sadly

And how many people sneered when I suggested that brexit and the breakup of the EU would bring war back to Europe. 

[ssiri]

[emoji2][emoji2][emoji2] really , that's not how I see it .
248,000 less people to be a drain on the nhs ,school places and housing .
I always ask the same question .
the population of the uk is 64,000,000 ....what do you think the population should be ?
our roads are clogged ...nhs struggling ...school class sizes rising
 
 

Fund public services, build more infrastructure for transport, health education etc. The problems you mention, will carry on despite net migration figures declining.

Why? The UK will continue to have UK citizens that need public services as they get older and subsequent generations have families of their own. Despite U.K. Pop regeneration replenishment stats being below the desired rate. Even if the UK had a 'one child' policy like China, more infrastructure will be needed.

Controlling immigration is important (for any country), but shutting it down all together is a no no


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[ssiri]

It is about 65.5m but that's not material.  It is not so much about the absolute number but about the mix of demographics.  Most western countries have a tax and pensions timebomb.  I think currently there are about 5 working people for every pensioner, I think by 2030, it is expected to be 2 to 1.  Why do you think Germany are so keen to embrace highly qualified immigrants.
immigrants are generally net contributors to an economy.  Also immigrants tend to be in core working demographic (20 to 60) and at the younger end of it.  Their economic contribution is more than the resources they consume and they actually subsidize the domestic population.
Don't worry, it will continue to fall due to Brexit, a Tory government and the coming recession.
It may well fit with the narrative of the increasingly right wing UK but will lead to a lower standard of living for the next generation. 

Sad, but I fear, will become true...


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[ssiri]

Next Taoiseach (PM) in Ireland is to be the openly gay son of Indian Immigrants.  Quite proud of that and shows how progressive Ireland is becoming.
 
 

Go Ireland [emoji106]


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[ssiri]

not relishing it by any means ...just pointing out that trouble is brewing , the sides are being created.
trump - brexit ,it all has to be ..sadly

On that basis, doomed to never learn the lessons of history. Thus, as it ever was....


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[Keith and Linda]

18 minutes ago, ssiri said:

 

 

 

 

On that basis, doomed to never learn the lessons of history. Thus, as it ever was....


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Humans hey! where would we be without them?

[bunbury61]

20 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

And how many people sneered when I suggested that brexit and the breakup of the EU would bring war back to Europe. 

war was coming back anyway ...its inevitable .

it is the e.u ,taking down borders ,embracing globalisation ,that is creating the conflict ,not preventing it .

[bunbury61]

you cannot have the global elites ,creating wars and toppling govts in the middle east ,all in the name of money greed and power

They do this knowing the consequences.

The ordinary people within the e.u are reaping the whirlwind

They should have kept the borders ,its not going to work ( I have been saying it since I first posted in 2008")

predicted brexit

predicted trump

very sad .

love Europe ....hate the e.u

 

 

 

[newjez]

13 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

war was coming back anyway ...its inevitable .

it is the e.u ,taking down borders ,embracing globalisation ,that is creating the conflict ,not preventing it .

How?

[newjez]

6 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

you cannot have the global elites ,creating wars and toppling govts in the middle east ,all in the name of money greed and power

They do this knowing the consequences.

The ordinary people within the e.u are reaping the whirlwind

They should have kept the borders ,its not going to work ( I have been saying it since I first posted in 2008")

predicted brexit

predicted trump

very sad .

love Europe ....hate the e.u

 

 

 

Do we not have a responsibility since we created the problem?

[Collie]

On 6/4/2017 at 04:24, bunbury61 said:

thats the system ...trump won ...end of

same as the brexit vote ,and people are still whingeing and whining about it .

its called democracy .

 

 

Brexit isn't very democratic if you are in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

If system is out of sync with the popular vote, then it's time to change the system.  Same with the UK's 1st past the post system.

Did I read that some states in the US are going to start allocating their electoral college votes to the winner national winner of the popular vote?  ASAIK, how an individual state allocates their electoral college votes is ourely a matter for that state.

[Gbye grey sky]

1 hour ago, bunbury61 said:

war was coming back anyway ...its inevitable .

it is the e.u ,taking down borders ,embracing globalisation ,that is creating the conflict ,not preventing it .

On the contrary nationalism and isolationism breeds wars.  Integration aids understanding and mutuality.

[Keith and Linda]

1 minute ago, Gbye grey sky said:

On the contrary nationalism and isolationism breeds wars.  Integration aids understanding and mutuality.

This beggars the question of why some immigrants do not want or ever intend to integrate? yet are quite happy to blame (point fingers at) others!

[Keith and Linda]

15 minutes ago, Collie said:

Brexit isn't very democratic if you are in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

If system is out of sync with the popular vote, then it's time to change the system.  Same with the UK's 1st past the post system.

Did I read that some states in the US are going to start allocating their electoral college votes to the winner national winner of the popular vote?  ASAIK, how an individual state allocates their electoral college votes is ourely a matter for that state.

Or Scunthorpe, or Liverpool They are all part of the UK which as a whole the majority of voters voted out, you cannot isolate area's from the whole to back up an argument.

[Gbye grey sky]

7 minutes ago, Keith and Linda said:

This beggars the question of why some immigrants do not want or ever intend to integrate? yet are quite happy to blame (point fingers at) others!

Almost all immigrants integrate to at least some extent once they are in their new country long enough.  It may appear that they have retained all of their former culture and customs but that is an illusion.

[Keith and Linda]

1 minute ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Almost all immigrants integrate to at least some extent once they are in their new country long enough.  It may appear that they have retained all of their former culture and customs but that is an illusion.

You mean like Sharia law, grooming young girls and raping girls for the way they dress, forced child marriages.................yep just an illusion!

[Collie]

3 minutes ago, Keith and Linda said:

Or Scunthorpe, or Liverpool They are all part of the UK which as a whole the majority of voters voted out, you cannot isolate area's from the whole to back up an argument.

Well you can, when they are separate countries with their own devolved parliments.  The UK is effectively a federation of 4 countries, if a specific country want to leave the UK to remain within a larger federation (EU) shouldn't that be their own democratic choice.  The people in NI have that right enshrined within the Good Friday agreement and the EU have confirmed that should the people of Ireland (North & South) vote for re-unification (per the terms of the Good Friday agreement), then NI would automatically rejoin the EU.  East Germany re-unifying with West Germany set the precedent.

BTW - I know a lot of scousers who don't really consider themselves English but from the Peoples Republic of Liverpool  but that is a side issue.

[Keith and Linda]

10 minutes ago, Collie said:

Well you can, when they are separate countries with their own devolved parliments.  The UK is effectively a federation of 4 countries, if a specific country want to leave the UK to remain within a larger federation (EU) shouldn't that be their own democratic choice.  The people in NI have that right enshrined within the Good Friday agreement and the EU have confirmed that should the people of Ireland (North & South) vote for re-unification (per the terms of the Good Friday agreement), then NI would automatically rejoin the EU.  East Germany re-unifying with West Germany set the precedent.

BTW - I know a lot of scousers who don't really consider themselves English but from the Peoples Republic of Liverpool  but that is a side issue.

but they weren't and aren't so the majority of voters rule, any how didn't Scotland vote to remain part of the UK?

BTW, I just picked any town/city nor preference nor knowledge in how they voted, but Liverpool voting out of the UK to be a republic seems like a very good idea

[Collie]

I'm not following you.  NI, Scotland and Wales all have their own devolved parliments.  NI have a forced coalition to ensure both communities are fairly represented in government.  I think Scotland has more devolved powers now (as a bribe to stay within the UK).

Scotland voted to remain in the UK (think it was 55:45) before Brexit but voted to remain in the EU (66:34 I think).  You can't have both so shouldn't they be allowed to make a call, either the UK or the EU?

[Gbye grey sky]

17 minutes ago, Keith and Linda said:

You mean like Sharia law, grooming young girls and raping girls for the way they dress, forced child marriages.................yep just an illusion!

Strange concept though it may be the vast majority adhere rigidly to the laws of their adopted country.

None of these are anyway the customs in other EU countries which is where the vast majority of recent immigrants derived.  None of these practices were prevalent in Poland or Romania.

[Gbye grey sky]

2 minutes ago, Collie said:

I'm not following you.  NI, Scotland and Wales all have their own devolved parliments.  NI have a forced coalition to ensure both communities are fairly represented in government.  I think Scotland has more devolved powers now (as a bribe to stay within the UK).

Scotland voted to remain in the UK (think it was 55:45) before Brexit but voted to remain in the EU (66:34 I think).  You can't have both so shouldn't they be allowed to make a call, either the UK or the EU?

I suspect that they may have another referendum in Scotland (maybe next year) but if it were held today I am sure the Scots would vote for UK by a similar margin to before.  All this might change if Brexit negotiations are going badly under Tory stewardship of course.

[Collie]

Hard to say, I think Nicola Sturgeon is looking for a referendum in late 2018 or early 2019.

The c. 34% who voted to leave the EU are probably in the 55% who voted to stay with Britain.  It's how the c.20% who wanted to stay with the UK and the EU would vote if it was either or is what the key ? is.  There are probably some swings and roundabouts in the other buckets  ( I know of 1 Scotsman who voted leave in both and now wants a referndum to leave the UK to rejoin the EU - he argues with himself) but that 20% is the swing factor.

If the 45% are still leave the UK, then it only needs another 6% of the swing voters to plump for the EU over the UK.  Plus if memory serves most remain with UK voters were older and leave voters were younger so you will have a 4 year change in the electorate (4 years of deaths and 4 years of newly eligible voters)

NS should be talking directly to the EU to see if Scotland leaves the UK, can they stay in the EU or fast track entry.  The big ? would be what would they for a currency

 

[Gbye grey sky]

8 minutes ago, Collie said:

Hard to say, I think Nicola Sturgeon is looking for a referendum in late 2018 or early 2019.

The c. 34% who voted to leave the EU are probably in the 55% who voted to stay with Britain.  It's how the c.20% who wanted to stay with the UK and the EU would vote if it was either or is what the key ? is.  There are probably some swings and roundabouts in the other buckets  ( I know of 1 Scotsman who voted leave in both and now wants a referndum to leave the UK to rejoin the EU - he argues with himself) but that 20% is the swing factor.

If the 45% are still leave the UK, then it only needs another 6% of the swing voters to plump for the EU over the UK.  Plus if memory serves most remain with UK voters were older and leave voters were younger so you will have a 4 year change in the electorate (4 years of deaths and 4 years of newly eligible voters)

NS should be talking directly to the EU to see if Scotland leaves the UK, can they stay in the EU or fast track entry.  The big ? would be what would they for a currency

 

She has been.  Even bigger than the currency would be overcoming the objections of Spain, who are worried about devolution there.