Moving back home

[speakeasy]

Because typically baby boomers who had it all see the folly in younger generations wanting the same. And we are to deal with the ever increasing prices and the ever increasing swathes of people to compete with and the lower relative incomes and not want some wriggle room to make our lives more joyous and fulfilling. If you're realistic about the move you can achieve what you want.

[legoman]

Original query has been answered......unless you have something to add.

 

plenty of other places for the usual battles over where is best, others come on here to read based on the heading of the thread, too many threads turning into silly squabbles. hope moderators close thread if done then, boring.

[Keith and Linda]

Because typically baby boomers who had it all see the folly in younger generations wanting the same. And we are to deal with the ever increasing prices and the ever increasing swathes of people to compete with and the lower relative incomes and not want some wriggle room to make our lives more joyous and fulfilling. If you're realistic about the move you can achieve what you want.

 

You are kidding aren't you?

[speakeasy]

You are kidding aren't you?

 

Don't get me started. It's that trajectory of wealth and fortune that younger generations are trying to emulate. It is wrong. Our trajectory will be more like a working person in Latvia or Malaysia. The wealth that majority white baby boomers sit on and underpinned by high house prices will be passed on to new generations as debt, likely to be highly unmanageable over the next thirty years or at least not nearly as manageable for ordinary working people over the next thirty, due to economic insecurity and shrinking economic growth. And whilst I'm all for that because I see what growth over the last 60 years has done to the environment, my eyes are open enough to know that a legacy of protectionism, free education, much more manual labor and an almost unprecedented post war economic boom set many ordinary working baby boomers in America and its allied nations down the path of relative riches. Your parents won the war and you have them to be thankful to.

 

 

It's just ashame your lavish retirements will indebt our nations further. But don't feel bad. No more than we should feel bad for wanting a piece of the pie that our grandfathers fought for.. even if it is 1/100th less appetizing. So we will try to take on those heavy mortgages with our uni debts and put off having kids until our forties while both mum and dad work because there's one generation in particular who gambled a lot away and are asking us if we are kidding?

 

In my mind and that of a lot of my peers the baby boomers have unwittingly created an underclass in their children. Because you had very few concerns about these things beyond peace love and mungbeans. And now that they're all retiring, I guess someone else will now deal with that pesky climate change.

 

I think they were irresponsible and selfish but as many weren't educated I can see that ignorance played a part.

[Gbye grey sky]

Don't get me started. It's that trajectory of wealth and fortune that younger generations are trying to emulate. It is wrong. Our trajectory will be more like a working person in Latvia or Malaysia. The wealth that majority white baby boomers sit on and underpinned by high house prices will be passed on to new generations as debt, likely to be highly unmanageable over the next thirty years or at least not nearly as manageable for ordinary working people over the next thirty, due to economic insecurity and shrinking economic growth. And whilst I'm all for that because I see what growth over the last 60 years has done to the environment, my eyes are open enough to know that a legacy of protectionism, free education, much more manual labor and an almost unprecedented post war economic boom set many ordinary working baby boomers in America and its allied nations down the path of relative riches. Your parents won the war and you have them to be thankful to.

 

 

It's just ashame your lavish retirements will indebt our nations further. But don't feel bad. No more than we should feel bad for wanting a piece of the pie that our grandfathers fought for.. even if it is 1/100th less appetizing. So we will try to take on those heavy mortgages with our uni debts and put off having kids until our forties while both mum and dad work because there's one generation in particular who gambled a lot away and are asking us if we are kidding?

 

In my mind and that of a lot of my peers the baby boomers have unwittingly created an underclass in their children. Because you had very few concerns about these things beyond peace love and mungbeans. And now that they're all retiring, I guess someone else will now deal with that pesky climate change.

 

I think they were irresponsible and selfish but as many weren't educated I can see that ignorance played a part.

 

How can you pass a house onto your children as debt. Surely it is an asset they inherit.

 

Few baby boomers could expect any kind of inheritance from parents who did not own their own home. They made it on their own with no financial help from parents.

 

Whilst some of these points you make are real it is often overlooked by the younger generation just how much many take things for granted and view stuff as necessities which earlier generations would have regarded as luxuries or the preserve of the rich.

 

The younger generation does face new challenges to the previous one but if you did not grow up in the 50s, 60s and 70s don't assume that you know what it was like. Few people were 'hippies' and many left school and went straight into work at 15 or 16 as I did. University education was free but it was only for a few rather than the many.

 

Buying your own home was every bit as difficult for young people in the 60s and 70s as it is today and involved massive personal sacrifices and many years of saving.

[Keith and Linda]

For those of us who came in the early days with a strong pound in our pockets, when houses right in the city centre could cost less than the equivalent of £80,000 and houses miles out of town could cost £50,000, ie those us who "got in on the act early" will have done very well out of it and I do accept many people are well set up now with their homes paid off and possibly an investment portfolio of properties to boot in some cases.

 

Kudos to anyone who has already "made it" and are reaping the rewards and loving it - that is the real Aussie dream. Well done but put yourself in the place of someone thinking of migrating today - forget the rosy stuff like "big houses and beaches" for one moment.

 

Today China doesn't consume gas, oil and ore's like it used to.

 

Their construction industry is in tatters, there are ghost towns and areas of cities where thousands of shiny new apartment blocks are lying empty, many half constructed and many abandoned concrete shells with not a worker or machine to be seen.

 

It was a bubble that grew too big too fast.

 

However what gets me are those advising potential migrants to totally ignore the big picture, the writing on the wall, ignore the fact that possibly the biggest ever global financial crisis is on the horizon and to just "come and give it a go, she'll be alright"

 

New migrants are never going to get the chances to grow their wealth like migrants got 15-20 years ago that is a fact, the money has gone, work is drying up everywhere, the mining boys saw the writing on the wall, threw in the towel and bailed out, and people in the last few years in some places have to face the fact that they paid far too much for their properties thinking the gravy train was always going to be there.

 

In these times, I would say to anyone who has a stable, secure job, a home, money in their pockets to spend, and a reasonably happy family life in the UK to think long and hard, look at the big picture and assess the risks fully.

 

I appreciate that this side of the coin is very prickly and the facts will hit a few nerves and rattle a few cages but I don't believe in glossing over things or filling people with false hope either.

 

Just looked at a few agents websites today out of interest and they are still peddling the same old dream albeit with a slightly more devious, less "in your face" sales pitch than the glossy brochures we were fed back in the day.

 

You paint a rosy picture of those that came 15-20 years ago (I fall within that time frame) but one still had to be prudent and make wise decisions to take advantage of the so called good times, we had 5 years of struggle starting out on half the salary I was getting in the UK, yes no doubt I am ok now and probably way better off than I would have been had I stayed in the UK, I am mortgage free on own home have two other properties both mortgaged, one being our future retirement home and the other our lump sum retirement fund, we have a super which at present would not be quite adequate but I am not complaining. However on the other hand we have some friends of similar age whom arrived 2 weeks after we did, they still only have their home with a mortgage (moved 4 times so far), and their super is less than mine so no big gain for them from the good times. Are they living the dream? they say they are.

I admit things would, as you so wisely say, be harder in todays economic climate, but the boom and bust cycle has been about a long time, knowing how to work with it is the hard part for some.

[Marisawright]

What about migrants who hate their life in the UK ( well 1 hates, 1 is more disillusioned/apathetic about...) have sh*t jobs both in terms of pay and conditions but those same jobs in Aus are both much better paid and the demands into your personal/ family life are nowhere near as detrimental. Is it still ok for us to try something different??!

 

Yes of course it is, provided you're sure the jobs really are better paid (taking into account the difference in cost of housing and living) and that the demands are less. If you are going to Tassie I could believe that perhaps the hours would be less demanding than the UK - but in Sydney and Melbourne, in my experience, people work far longer hours and get shorter holidays than their equivalents in the UK, so I don't get why people think Australians have a better work/life balance - they don't.

[JockinTas]

Sound advice, John.

 

Hopefully few potential migrants are viewing Australia as a place to get rich these days as I agree that is an unlikely dream. If they are, they should read your post and take note.

 

Many though, like us, have come for a new lifestyle and in our case, believe it or not, actually planned and expected things like lower income for that lifestyle.

 

We are happy with that choice so far.

 

I hope they do read John's post. He's correct. Life is far tougher here now than when we came all those years ago.

[Booma]

I hope they do read John's post. He's correct. Life is far tougher here now than when we came all those years ago.

 

 

life is tougher everywhere. but i dont buy whats being sold on this thread though. me & my hubby are under 35 & we have achieved a great life & lifestyle in oz. it was hard saving up a house deposit but when was it ever easy for anyone starting out. we only know one couple our age who are finding it difficult to buy a house but they waste money on gadgets & clothes & other shite.

[JockinTas]

life is tougher everywhere. but i dont buy whats being sold on this thread though. me & my hubby are under 35 & we have achieved a great life & lifestyle in oz. it was hard saving up a house deposit but when was it ever easy for anyone starting out. we only know one couple our age who are finding it difficult to buy a house but they waste money on gadgets & clothes & other shite.

 

Everything is fine as long as you have a job. My husband worked in construction and that was always boom or bust. We moved states because of work drying up in Perth. Luckily Sydney provided long term work and between projects he worked away from home wherever the work was. Once the children were in school I returned to the workforce and worked for the same company for over 20 years in a decent, well paying job.

[Keith and Linda]

life is tougher everywhere. but i dont buy whats being sold on this thread though. me & my hubby are under 35 & we have achieved a great life & lifestyle in oz. it was hard saving up a house deposit but when was it ever easy for anyone starting out. we only know one couple our age who are finding it difficult to buy a house but they waste money on gadgets & clothes & other shite.

 

Too true Booma! too true. If you want a house then sacrifice and prudent planning/budgeting is usually needed. The gadgets and designer stuff and good holidays can and will come later.

[Booma]

Everything is fine as long as you have a job. My husband worked in construction and that was always boom or bust. We moved states because of work drying up in Perth. Luckily Sydney provided long term work and between projects he worked away from home wherever the work was. Once the children were in school I returned to the workforce and worked for the same company for over 20 years in a decent, well paying job.

 

not really understanding how that is any different to anyone anywhere. then or now.

[speakeasy]

I certainly didn't get any help from anyone after I left home at 18 because of course serial divorces of my parent's age group meant family fortunes evaporated due to again too high expectations (in many cases from women of that age group) that marriage had to be persistently passionate and never tedious whilst never making them feel unattractive nor a day over 20 (this was the man's job whilst he slaved away earning the income). So in the era of daytime television baby boomer wives were convinced they should stay at home to look after the family, whilst secretly yearning to be rich, free, glamorous and marvelously successful in their own right (a la Alex Carrington from Dynasty played by Joan Collins who, incidentally, had 5 husbands....) So the plot had to come crashing with so many dissatisfied marital couples trying to achieve 1980s deluxe living.

 

Well my husband and I won't have that problem. We will support each other and live in a small place that we can hopefully always be able to afford. Our insurance policy is each other and we aren't at wars trying to feel more masculine or feminine at anyone's expense and will hopefully just accept the dual responsibilities of a life lived as one. I'm pretty sure these were not the aspirations for people my age 30 years ago...

And as for a lot of my other peers.. well they'll be lucky to find a partner as everyone these days seems to be too busy crossing paths..

[HappyHeart]

Too true Booma! too true. If you want a house then sacrifice and prudent planning/budgeting is usually needed. The gadgets and designer stuff and good holidays can and will come later.

Too many foolish greedy people not prepared to work and wait and build on nothing over years to get where you want/what you want. Too much emphasis on worthless crap and stuff. Priorities. Expectations. They want it all and they want it now and does it make them happy? No.

[Keith and Linda]

Everything is fine as long as you have a job. My husband worked in construction and that was always boom or bust. We moved states because of work drying up in Perth. Luckily Sydney provided long term work and between projects he worked away from home wherever the work was. Once the children were in school I returned to the workforce and worked for the same company for over 20 years in a decent, well paying job.

 

Surely not having a job is just one of those short term hiccups in life and you should, in a boom and bust industry of which you are aware of, be prepared for that! Three times being made redundant in UK certainly did not put me in dire straights.

[JockinTas]

not really understanding how that is any different to anyone anywhere. then or now.

 

 

It was very easy to find work when we came - I worked two jobs - office work during the day and in a pub at night. OH worked 6 days a weeks - easy to save for a house (which were a lot cheaper then too). It seems a fair percentage of migrants are finding it harder and harder to find a long term job these days hence the desire to return home to the UK as it must seem hopeless to stay here getting further into debt with no family to help out.

[JockinTas]

Surely not having a job is just one of those short term hiccups in life and you should, in a boom and bust industry of which you are aware of, be prepared for that! Three times being made redundant in UK certainly did not put me in dire straights.

 

The reality is that for a lot of people it is not just a short term hiccup. We were lucky enough to always manage but we have seen a few of our friends move back to the UK where they have thrived.

[speakeasy]

life is tougher everywhere. but i dont buy whats being sold on this thread though. me & my hubby are under 35 & we have achieved a great life & lifestyle in oz. it was hard saving up a house deposit but when was it ever easy for anyone starting out. we only know one couple our age who are finding it difficult to buy a house but they waste money on gadgets & clothes & other shite.

 

Where did you buy Booma if you don't mind me asking?

 

It's just that I challenge anyone in the next 8-10 years on an average wage to be able to save for a mortgage in Sydney and less so Melbourne Darwin and Perth. And if you're just finishing Uni with a debt because you were a big girl or boy and paid for it all yourself, you can extend that outlook at least 4 years assuming you land a good job to consistently service that debt. So that begs the question: why try to service such a debt from a high cost centre? Answer: because that's where the jobs are. And few people with half a decade's worth of study debt will easily find themselves marriage material. But then men and women are drastically changing their expectations about life and romance. Debt is almost the companion in everyone's lives. And I know we've been educated to be passive, compliant and politically correct, but what gives?

 

(Majority of post not directed at you..)

[flag of convenience]

You paint a rosy picture of those that came 15-20 years ago (I fall within that time frame) but one still had to be prudent and make wise decisions to take advantage of the so called good times, we had 5 years of struggle starting out on half the salary I was getting in the UK, yes no doubt I am ok now and probably way better off than I would have been had I stayed in the UK, I am mortgage free on own home have two other properties both mortgaged, one being our future retirement home and the other our lump sum retirement fund, we have a super which at present would not be quite adequate but I am not complaining. However on the other hand we have some friends of similar age whom arrived 2 weeks after we did, they still only have their home with a mortgage (moved 4 times so far), and their super is less than mine so no big gain for them from the good times. Are they living the dream? they say they are.

I admit things would, as you so wisely say, be harder in todays economic climate, but the boom and bust cycle has been about a long time, knowing how to work with it is the hard part for some.

 

Boom and bust has been as you rightly point out a feature of Australia. This applies especially to resource rich states of WA and QLD. This time around though it is different. House prices are out of reach of many and present poor returns in yield as well. The ratio of earning to housing cost has never been greater. It is different now. We are now a globally expensive country. That was not the case twenty years ago.

Our future is far less clear. Every chance those that feel very secure at the moment will be in for a nasty shock.

[Keith and Linda]

Too many foolish greedy people not prepared to work and wait and build on nothing over years to get where you want/what you want. Too much emphasis on worthless crap and stuff. Priorities. Expectations. They want it all and they want it now and does it make them happy? No.

 

A little harsh there HH! I think there are many prepared to work hard but maybe just a little foolish and/or naïve on how they manage their hard earned cash. I have no real problem with how people spend their money but those that spend it on gadgets and the like cannot complain that they can then not afford other lets say needy things.

Credit is also all too easy to get these days and it appears the days of saving for something is long gone and then money goes on paying off not only the debts but the interest when if thought about the interest could actually be your savings.

[speakeasy]

You paint a rosy picture of those that came 15-20 years ago (I fall within that time frame) but one still had to be prudent and make wise decisions to take advantage of the so called good times, we had 5 years of struggle starting out on half the salary I was getting in the UK, yes no doubt I am ok now and probably way better off than I would have been had I stayed in the UK, I am mortgage free on own home have two other properties both mortgaged, one being our future retirement home and the other our lump sum retirement fund, we have a super which at present would not be quite adequate but I am not complaining. However on the other hand we have some friends of similar age whom arrived 2 weeks after we did, they still only have their home with a mortgage (moved 4 times so far), and their super is less than mine so no big gain for them from the good times. Are they living the dream? they say they are.

I admit things would, as you so wisely say, be harder in todays economic climate, but the boom and bust cycle has been about a long time, knowing how to work with it is the hard part for some.

 

Hey, I just want the best for everyone. I'm just glad in my mid-thirties it's dawned on me how important work and being sensible is. This means I'm getting old, right?

[flag of convenience]

It was very easy to find work when we came - I worked two jobs - office work during the day and in a pub at night. OH worked 6 days a weeks - easy to save for a house (which were a lot cheaper then too). It seems a fair percentage of migrants are finding it harder and harder to find a long term job these days hence the desire to return home to the UK as it must seem hopeless to stay here getting further into debt with no family to help out.

 

A whole different ball game a generation and a half back. People could actually save on the dole. Often working as well. Tradies and others operated bank accounts under different names to avoid tax.

The working man could operate rorts galore not just corporates , though some tradies still do well. Houses were cheap. I don't see anything remotely similar these days with the majority slaves to debt. Wait until interest rates start there climb upwards. I was reading recently something akin to half the population wouldn't have a spare $1,000 they could instantly draw on. While three quarters couldn't raise $10,000 cash in an emergency. Incredible if true.

[Keith and Linda]

Boom and bust has been as you rightly point out a feature of Australia. This applies especially to resource rich states of WA and QLD. This time around though it is different. House prices are out of reach of many and present poor returns in yield as well. The ratio of earning to housing cost has never been greater. It is different now. We are now a globally expensive country. That was not the case twenty years ago.

Our future is far less clear. Every chance those that feel very secure at the moment will be in for a nasty shock.

 

Boom and Bust is not an Australian phenomenon flag and house prices were out of my reach for many years and that was more than twenty years ago. I am secure at the moment and I am prepared for some difficult times if they come, well at least I can lessen the shock, I do not think I am alone on this either.

[speakeasy]

A little harsh there HH! I think there are many prepared to work hard but maybe just a little foolish and/or naïve on how they manage their hard earned cash. I have no real problem with how people spend their money but those that spend it on gadgets and the like cannot complain that they can then not afford other lets say needy things.

Credit is also all too easy to get these days and it appears the days of saving for something is long gone and then money goes on paying off not only the debts but the interest when if thought about the interest could actually be your savings.

 

Well most people need a mobile phone for work (and possibly a laptop too) so that is a tax deduction (much like your investment properties). But both combined you can buy for less than 1grand.

 

I suspect a lot of much younger adults opt for the phone and communication device as an alternative to the car or what have you from yesteryear as their preferred status symbol and device for connecting with one another. A lot of people can travel to see each other on the couch!

[Booma]

It was very easy to find work when we came - I worked two jobs - office work during the day and in a pub at night. OH worked 6 days a weeks - easy to save for a house (which were a lot cheaper then too). It seems a fair percentage of migrants are finding it harder and harder to find a long term job these days hence the desire to return home to the UK as it must seem hopeless to stay here getting further into debt with no family to help out.

 

 

depending on what you do there is plenty of work but some people would rather go back than move to the work. my hubby offered permanent work on good money in nsw to a brit in wa moaning on here they couldnt get work but they turned it down. there choice. but them saying they couldnt get any work at all is rubbish. they just couldnt get it without moving.