From Visa 457 to PR

[HappyAUS]

Hi All

 

I hope some one can help me.....

 

I'm had been with visa 457 more than 2 years now. My manager asked me to go to PR and he is fully supported me.

 

However, we got stuck in HR. Based on what HR said is Company do has a policy that not to sponsor any PR. Even I pay it by myself. I asked a copy of the policy and they never come back.

 

I argued with them that since they are already sponsored me on the visa 457, it doesn't make sense if they not doing sponsor PR(visa 186) which means i with stuck with visa 457 for the next 2 years and re-do the visa and another 4 years....and they are happy with visa 457 but not visa 186.

 

And, HR stated, they will do the nomination but not sponsorship, if I can proved that the different between sponsorship and nomination........

 

What can i do????

[FireBlade]

Hi All

 

I hope some one can help me.....

 

I'm had been with visa 457 more than 2 years now. My manager asked me to go to PR and he is fully supported me.

 

However, we got stuck in HR. Based on what HR said is Company do has a policy that not to sponsor any PR. Even I pay it by myself. I asked a copy of the policy and they never come back.

 

I argued with them that since they are already sponsored me on the visa 457, it doesn't make sense if they not doing sponsor PR(visa 186) which means i with stuck with visa 457 for the next 2 years and re-do the visa and another 4 years....and they are happy with visa 457 but not visa 186.

 

And, HR stated, they will do the nomination but not sponsorship, if I can proved that the different between sponsorship and nomination........

 

What can i do????

 

Even though the effort for 457 vs 186 is pretty much the same on the company side, some of them still don't promote going for 186 !

 

In your case I see a positive outcome as your company is ready to consider the nomination (which is quite a step forward). I suggest you negotiate with them to at least lock down the nomination part (good if they can pay for it and use migration agent), then you can apply for visa yourself or using migration agent

 

Unfortunately I am not the expert or have enough knowledge to provide the differences/comparison between sponsorship & nomination, but there is another 186 thread here, I am sure someone can tell

[MaggieMay24]

And, HR stated, they will do the nomination but not sponsorship, if I can proved that the different between sponsorship and nomination........

 

So your HR department has said they would nominate you for a PR visa, but would not sponsor you? If so, your HR department doesn't understand the PR process at all. The 457 visa has 3 steps.... Sponsorship + Nomination + Application. The 186 visa has only 2 steps.... Nomination + Application. All you need them to do is complete and submit the nomination for a 186 visa under the TRT stream. It's not an easy process, so maybe they don't want to go through the work to do this.

 

Ideally, I'd suggest you engage a migration agent and ask your HR department to speak with them to get an understanding of what information that agent would require to complete the nomination on their behalf, and maybe that would be enough to convince them. Otherwise, I'd suggest you do enough research on what they need to do so that you can explain it and hopefully get their agreement.

[HappyAUS]

Thank MaggieMay24....

 

I did explain to them and show them the documents check list.

I also show them the step by step included the immi account......The HR lady only said: "based on the policy" and she do not show me the policy which is very upset me.

I'm totally agreed with you about she do not know anything about the visa and she told my manager she is very experience on visa things.......

I contacted my previous migration agent who did my visa 457 and they are happy to talk to HR, but HR not interesting to talk to them.

[HappyAUS]

Hi FireBlade,

 

i asked them only complete the nomination part and i can use the TRN or nomination number if approved. they stated based on their experiences nomination number is equal to sponsorship number....... seriously i really think they are hopeless...

[Petkula73]

We had a similar situation to you in 2013. My company originally agreed to sponsor (i.e. fully fund) our PR application when I signed a full time Australian contract in 2012 (I was still on my UK contract prior to this. Due to a management change and cost cutting, when we became eligible, HR reneged on the offer and claimed they had in fact said they would only nominate me for PR, and not fund it. They were totally clueless and were not even aware that they even if they nominated me, they still had to pay for the nomination, which was something like $500 in addition to the cost of the visa.

 

To cut a long story short, we decided that HR were not going to be either helpful or proactive, so I told them I would take care of everything, then completed (and paid) the nomination on their behalf. Therefore, all they had to do was rubber stamp a couple of forms and confirm that I worked there and was in a permanent role.

 

I also completed my own 186 application, which was relatively straight forward, and we got our PR granted about 10 weeks later, which was pretty quick.

 

My advice would be:

 

1. Ask your HR department to clarify what "nominate" vs "sponsorship" means. I'm guessing it's the same as me, i.e. they will sign the nomination form, but not pay for it.

2. You can certainly ask to see the HR policy on this as it shouldn't be sensitive or confidential. If they won't provide a copy it's most likely because they don't actually have one, or it's out of date. I'd escalate that to your manager, head of department etc if possible.

3. In the meantime, you can start to research a PR application outside your employer.

 

All in all our PR cost us in excess of $12K, which was an absolute rip off. The most ridiculous part was we didn't submit an IELTS language test for my wife as we thought given she wasn't even the applicant, had lived and worked in the UK for 11 years and was employed in Australia that it was pretty obvious her English was at the required level (which is not exactly very high). 10 weeks later we had a call from IMMI telling us that the PR was approved, pending the IELTS test. Fine we said, she can go and do one next week, but oh no, Australian bureaucracy kicked in with a vengeance. You cannot sit the IELTS once your application has been submitted, therefore our options were either take the test, then resubmit the whole application and go to the back of the queue, or pay $4200 to IMMI to exempt her from taking the test! What a complete scam! So basically, you need to be able to speak English to get PR, unless you cough up $4200 and then it doesn't matter! We paid as the thoughts of going to the back to the queue were too much to contend with.

[Marisawright]

I'm had been with visa 457 more than 2 years now. My manager asked me to go to PR and he is fully supported me.

 

However, we got stuck in HR. Based on what HR said is Company do has a policy that not to sponsor any PR. Even I pay it by myself.

 

Maybe it is the HR Manager who does not understand. I do hope so. However, I have seen this happen before. I worked for the Australian branch of an international company. We had someone on a 457 visa and my manager said the company would sponsor him for PR because he was such a valued employee. Unfortunately he did not check with HR before he made that promise!

 

In fact the company had a strict policy that they did not sponsor anyone for PR, except in very high-level jobs. Apparently they felt that making too many PR applications for lower-level employees might jeopardise their chances of getting these more important applications approved. The policy came from Head Office in Singapore and it was impossible to make any exceptions. I hope that's not the case with your company but it might be a possibility.

[Raul Senise]

It is not uncommon for companies to have an internal HR Policy that they will not support an application for Permanent Residency through the employer nomination scheme.

 

This is their right as there is no Law or Regulation which states that they must sponsor 457 staff for Permeant Residency. It is for this reason that it is recommended to negotiate this sort of thing in a written contract at the start of the employment.

 

It is not uncommon for 457 staff to leave soon after they obtain Permanent Residency, as they no longer have any work condition. Companies are aware of this and for this reason, many will not support a Permanent Residency application.

[Chortlepuss]

My employer sponsored me for PR following 457. They then locked me into a 2 year contract. If I had left during this period I would have to reimburse them for costs. Financially it was a shrewd move for them - the alternative was paying to repatriate my family - a much more expensive option, and on the plus side they got 2 year's labour. It may be sensible to stress the financial benefits to your company from sponsorship, you are clearly a sought after employee.

[HappyAUS]

My employer sponsored me for PR following 457. They then locked me into a 2 year contract. If I had left during this period I would have to reimburse them for costs. Financially it was a shrewd move for them - the alternative was paying to repatriate my family - a much more expensive option, and on the plus side they got 2 year's labour. It may be sensible to stress the financial benefits to your company from sponsorship, you are clearly a sought after employee.

 

they even do not want to do the contract thing. The HR department said it is illegal to do that.

[HappyAUS]

Maybe it is the HR Manager who does not understand. I do hope so. However, I have seen this happen before. I worked for the Australian branch of an international company. We had someone on a 457 visa and my manager said the company would sponsor him for PR because he was such a valued employee. Unfortunately he did not check with HR before he made that promise!

 

In fact the company had a strict policy that they did not sponsor anyone for PR, except in very high-level jobs. Apparently they felt that making too many PR applications for lower-level employees might jeopardise their chances of getting these more important applications approved. The policy came from Head Office in Singapore and it was impossible to make any exceptions. I hope that's not the case with your company but it might be a possibility.

 

 

I hope not for me....my head office is in US. That's why I'm asking for that policy. if it is the case, then i will need to get another employer

[MaggieMay24]

they even do not want to do the contract thing. The HR department said it is illegal to do that.

 

There's nothing illegal about this, and my company does this with all PR sponsorships. We had one employee resign a month after his 186 was approved, and we deducted the company-paid fees from his final pay.

[Raul Senise]

Most companies will not pay anything towards PR costs.

[Brummy]

We had a similar situation to you in 2013. My company originally agreed to sponsor (i.e. fully fund) our PR application when I signed a full time Australian contract in 2012 (I was still on my UK contract prior to this. Due to a management change and cost cutting, when we became eligible, HR reneged on the offer and claimed they had in fact said they would only nominate me for PR, and not fund it. They were totally clueless and were not even aware that they even if they nominated me, they still had to pay for the nomination, which was something like $500 in addition to the cost of the visa.

 

To cut a long story short, we decided that HR were not going to be either helpful or proactive, so I told them I would take care of everything, then completed (and paid) the nomination on their behalf. Therefore, all they had to do was rubber stamp a couple of forms and confirm that I worked there and was in a permanent role.

 

I also completed my own 186 application, which was relatively straight forward, and we got our PR granted about 10 weeks later, which was pretty quick.

 

My advice would be:

 

1. Ask your HR department to clarify what "nominate" vs "sponsorship" means. I'm guessing it's the same as me, i.e. they will sign the nomination form, but not pay for it.

2. You can certainly ask to see the HR policy on this as it shouldn't be sensitive or confidential. If they won't provide a copy it's most likely because they don't actually have one, or it's out of date. I'd escalate that to your manager, head of department etc if possible.

3. In the meantime, you can start to research a PR application outside your employer.

 

All in all our PR cost us in excess of $12K, which was an absolute rip off. The most ridiculous part was we didn't submit an IELTS language test for my wife as we thought given she wasn't even the applicant, had lived and worked in the UK for 11 years and was employed in Australia that it was pretty obvious her English was at the required level (which is not exactly very high). 10 weeks later we had a call from IMMI telling us that the PR was approved, pending the IELTS test. Fine we said, she can go and do one next week, but oh no, Australian bureaucracy kicked in with a vengeance. You cannot sit the IELTS once your application has been submitted, therefore our options were either take the test, then resubmit the whole application and go to the back of the queue, or pay $4200 to IMMI to exempt her from taking the test! What a complete scam! So basically, you need to be able to speak English to get PR, unless you cough up $4200 and then it doesn't matter! We paid as the thoughts of going to the back to the queue were too much to contend with.

 

What you went through was totally shocking!

 

I was totally dumbfounded reading your post, and how after paying up $4200, the IELTS didn't even matter anymore!

 

Sorry you had to go through such a horrible and emotionally stressful experience.

 

I actually read your post out to a friend last night, who is going through something similar, and I wondered whether you could perhaps shed some light on some of the questions he had.

 

These are his questions:

 

1- Regarding the bold part, what sort of documents did you have to provide from your end and your employer's end?

 

2- How did you manage to complete the nomination on their behalf? Isn't the employer obliged to log in on the ENS website to fill their part in?

 

3- How did you pay for the employer's $500 fee? Did you use your own bank card to do this, and was this not an issue?

 

4- My manager has stated that he can issue a letter stating that I've been working with them etc, is this all that's required from the employer's side?

 

Thank you

[Raul Senise]

 

All in all our PR cost us in excess of $12K, which was an absolute rip off. The most ridiculous part was we didn't submit an IELTS language test for my wife as we thought given she wasn't even the applicant, had lived and worked in the UK for 11 years and was employed in Australia that it was pretty obvious her English was at the required level (which is not exactly very high). 10 weeks later we had a call from IMMI telling us that the PR was approved, pending the IELTS test. Fine we said, she can go and do one next week, but oh no, Australian bureaucracy kicked in with a vengeance. You cannot sit the IELTS once your application has been submitted, therefore our options were either take the test, then resubmit the whole application and go to the back of the queue, or pay $4200 to IMMI to exempt her from taking the test! What a complete scam! So basically, you need to be able to speak English to get PR, unless you cough up $4200 and then it doesn't matter! We paid as the thoughts of going to the back to the queue were too much to contend with.

 

You were advised incorrectly.

 

Secondary applicants are only required to evidence Functional English. The Regulation allow for a test to evidence Functional English to be “completed after the application is made”.

[Raul Senise]

 

1- Regarding the bold part, what sort of documents did you have to provide from your end and your employer's end?

Under the current Regulations, from the employers side there is a lot more than “rubber stamp a couple of forms and confirm that I worked there and was in a permanent role”.

 

Most employers will not give the necessary documents to the visa holder as they include things like the company financials, BAS documents, salary details of Australian staff, staff training details, etc.

 

The Immigration website give a basic summary of the required documents, although it will vary somewhat from business to business.

 

2- How did you manage to complete the nomination on their behalf? Isn't the employer obliged to log in on the ENS website to fill their part in?

The employer must sign off on all information provided in the Nomination and agree to a list of undertakings.

 

3- How did you pay for the employer's $500 fee? Did you use your own bank card to do this, and was this not an issue?

Either party can pay for the nomination costs.

 

4- My manager has stated that he can issue a letter stating that I've been working with them etc, is this all that's required from the employer's side?

No, see point 1.

[wrussell]

If you are the visa applicant, be careful about what you pay for.