Chortlepuss Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Where I live in Brissie there is a new building site at the bottom of my road - 29 new houses going up as part of a 'riverside' development . A third of these will be built in an area which was heavily flooded in 2011, 1974 and all other major flood years. The others were flooded at some point but not recently. Where the foundations will be for some of the houses is a huge pond - from the previous heavy rains - but it hasn't rained for a couple of weeks! Looking at the site now I wonder 1) Why and how was planning permission allowed for them? (there were some very sensible objections pointing out the risk) and 2) Who would buy these houses, knowing that they will almost definitely go under in the next flood? It is a beautiful location - and you certainly get a river view (at some stage probably from mid way up your lounge window) - But they ain't going to be cheap - am just curious to understand what happens when a house is built on saturated river bank - do they have to have special foundations, or does the building firm hope that people won't care it's somewhat damp underfoot? Can you insure it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Agreed - I also question the development at Tennyson - next to the tennis centre. Flat and at river level and well under in 2011? The residents were thinking of sueing the council and Mirvac for putting a residential development there when it was obvious it flooded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 They're nuts. Brisbane is known for huge floods isn't it? They have also built extensively up in the Dandenongs here. I once met a very old man who remembered some shocking landslides up there ( I think 1920s or 30s) which are all forgotten now.Same as people forget the bushfires and how dangerous some areas can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 You will probably find they have to be high set houses with stipulated floor heights. Building on a flood plain isn't uncommon. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Starlight - 1974 and 2011 in Brisbane so not necessarily that frqeuent - just long enough between for people to forget! Cal - sadly the Tennyson development are unit developments that flooded in 2011 and trapped the residents inside for days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Whay Cal says. Also, the vast majority of flooding was not caused by the bursting of the river banks but by "backflow" in the drains. This has now been mitigated by way of installation of "one-way valves" (my words) the river cannot now back up the drains and water can only flow out, and not in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eera Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 You can do wonders with engineered fill. Council will have an RL which blocks have to be raised above in order to build, it's commonly the hundred-year level. Around here it's 5.5m AHD, so you are free to buy swamp, you just have to put a large building platform in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta2 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Whay Cal says. Also, the vast majority of flooding was not caused by the bursting of the river banks but by "backflow" in the drains. This has now been mitigated by way of installation of "one-way valves" (my words) the river cannot now back up the drains and water can only flow out, and not in That is not entirely true. It was true of suburbs such as Rosalie, which is actually on a hidden river and near to Gregory Park, which used to be known as Red Jacket Swamp, for good reason. I grew up in that area. Spent a lot of time catching tadpoles on "The Green". Ditto nearby Milton. In most suburbs in 2011, it was the river itself which caused the flooding. Including some perennial favourites such as Rocklea, but also others which did not flood as much in 1974. Anyone who is interested can find plenty of pictures on the internet. The claim that these one way valves can prevent future flooding is untested. After the 1974 flood, new dams were built and people got complacent - until the 2011 flood. I notice that house prices in Chelmer, one of the worst affected suburbs, went up 37% last year! Talk about the triumph of hope over experience. Friends bought a house in Narangba, another recent so-called development. The Burpengary Creek flooded its banks in 2011, and their house was flooded. Later, they met a local farmer who said oh yes, that creek bank has always flooded. Efforts to seek redress from the local Council got nowhere. Now every time it rains they get very anxious. And there are many like them on the floodplain of the Brisbane river and its many tributaries. Many hope, of course, to sell out to those who don't bother to look at flood maps before they buy! The basic problem is not just ignorance and complacency, but the fact that in any democracy it is very hard to prevent developers from getting too much control. I am a swinging voter, but there can be little doubt that the Newman government was leading Queensland back into the bad old days of the gross corruption and arrogance of the Bjelke Peterson government. Under that regime, Brisbane lost far too much of its cultural heritage. Bjelke Peterson did not go to gaol, sadly, because of a miscarriage of justice. I am quite pleased at the moment to see Newman's and Seeney's developer mates with the stuffing knocked out of them, since hardly anyone (including me) believed that Labor would win. Madness re allowing development too close to the river is not the prerogative of the conservatives though. The recent Bligh Labor government had an absolutely loony idea to build a "Northpoint" at North Quay, which would have seen high rise buildings built well out into the river! Imagine what would have happened in the 2011 flood. As it was, an important bridge was nearly knocked out by floating debris, and saved only by the quick and courageous actions of a couple of tug boat owners. Basically, all it takes to flood the Brisbane river is for a cyclone to come further south than usual. Allowing large scale development in areas that everyone should know are too close to the river is a combination of greed and stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would not like to live near a river .............. flooding (no matter what the developers try to tell you) and mosquitoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would not like to live near a river .............. flooding (no matter what the developers try to tell you) and mosquitoes. Re the flooding...Brisbane is very hilly so you can often have massive parts of a riverside suburb well away from any possibility of flooding. Just the same low lying streets go under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Starlight - 1974 and 2011 in Brisbane so not necessarily that frqeuent - just long enough between for people to forget! Cal - sadly the Tennyson development are unit developments that flooded in 2011 and trapped the residents inside for days! Yes and the 1974 event was pre dam so 2011 was really a 1 in a 100 event...biggest amount of water into the catchment since 1893. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes, true enough. Looking down on a river from a hill would be lovely - just wouldn't like to be on the same level as the river :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That is not entirely true. It was true of suburbs such as Rosalie, which is actually on a hidden river and near to Gregory Park, which used to be known as Red Jacket Swamp, for good reason. I grew up in that area. Spent a lot of time catching tadpoles on "The Green". Ditto nearby Milton. In most suburbs in 2011, it was the river itself which caused the flooding. Including some perennial favourites such as Rocklea, but also others which did not flood as much in 1974. Anyone who is interested can find plenty of pictures on the internet. The claim that these one way valves can prevent future flooding is untested. ... Will be interesting...as well as the duckbill valves they have installed along the auchenflower/milton reach they have also put some at new farm. At milton they also spent a fortune filling in the gap under coronation drive with penstock valves/gates so in a flood event all of these can be closed to stop tidal flooding up the old Western Creek catchment (leading through red jacket swamp) from flooding Rosalie. In theory the water will now have to breach Coronation Drive to flood Rosalie Village. New penstock valves and gates at Milton (to flood proof existing walkway under Coronation Drive and save suburbs in the area): Source: http://www.oncewasacreek.org/wp-content/media/western-ck-floodgate-10.jpg One of the new duckbill valves at Milton (flood waters would pressure them shut): Source: http://www.oncewasacreek.org/wp-content/media/milton-duckbill.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Where I live in Brissie there is a new building site at the bottom of my road - 29 new houses going up as part of a 'riverside' development . A third of these will be built in an area which was heavily flooded in 2011, 1974 and all other major flood years. The others were flooded at some point but not recently. Where the foundations will be for some of the houses is a huge pond - from the previous heavy rains - but it hasn't rained for a couple of weeks! Looking at the site now I wonder 1) Why and how was planning permission allowed for them? (there were some very sensible objections pointing out the risk) and 2) Who would buy these houses, knowing that they will almost definitely go under in the next flood? It is a beautiful location - and you certainly get a river view (at some stage probably from mid way up your lounge window) - But they ain't going to be cheap - am just curious to understand what happens when a house is built on saturated river bank - do they have to have special foundations, or does the building firm hope that people won't care it's somewhat damp underfoot? Can you insure it? Some of the planning decisions do seem odd. Surely they can't build normal new brick on slab houses without raising the land out of the flood zone ? Does the development mention the house styles being built ? While looking for the development I found this one for sale in your local area (or at least close by in Chelmer)...some lovely Queenslanders around there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes, true enough. Looking down on a river from a hill would be lovely - just wouldn't like to be on the same level as the river :wink: No Luckily most streets that flood are well known so you can look up the online maps and avoid them fairly easily usually. I remember checking one house to buy pre-2011 and the flood map said it flooded up to the fence line of that house. I happened to be helping on that street in the 2011 flood when I noticed it stopped exactly at the fence line as mapped. I could have bought it Not all areas were exactly the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Some of the planning decisions do seem odd. Surely they can't build normal new brick on slab houses without raising the land out of the flood zone ? Does the development mention the house styles being built ? While looking for it I found this one for sale in your local area (i.e. Chelmer)...some lovely Queenslanders around there: Ooh! That is a beautiful house! I do like a house with a bit of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ooh! That is a beautiful house! I do like a house with a bit of character. Inner Brisbane is blessed with these Queenslanders. The beauty of this area and these houses may be one reason the land has been opened for sale. The pressure to live amongst them might be too much. Some random others currently for sale in the suburb (or opposite): I wouldn't buy this one in $900,000's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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