Perthbum Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [h=1]David Cameron mocked as coward for ducking out of election debate[/h] We need to see a debate between the 2 men to help us decide, there are only 2 possible prime ministers who will be in office after the election, the man is a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hi guys. Would any of you be so kind as to sign this petition about the TV debates created by my wife today. If it got up to 100 it would make her day. Thanks https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/don-t-let-cameron-veto-the-tv-debates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Signed. As we say in scotland...He's a fearty lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks stacy. It's reached 367 in just over a day! So glad the broadcasters say they are going ahead despite desperate Dave's pathetic protest. Let's hope they stick to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Personally I think the TV debates are a waste of time and money. A reflection of voting for personalities rather than policies. Its unlikely Cameron will get much of a boost if he does well, and if he does badly then more likely to reflect badly on him. TV debates are not a fundamental part of the democratic process though. They are a relatively recent US import which allows the designated winners throw trivial sound bites at one another. I can only applaud Cameron for his stance. I hate these TV debates. If you want to know more on policies etc then read the manifestos, pick up a newspaper, study the previous form and achievements of the politician concerned. Don't base your decisions on an hour long farce. TV debates just pushes people towards soundbite politics. Passion and conviction are merely decoys to assist in the cover up the lies, soundbites and empty promises that are made at these debates. Its slightly entertaining listening to the excuses and evasion for the 90 minutes duration but nothing meaningful is achieved other than determining who can come across as the most convincing liar. However, given performances at PMQs I can't imagine a circumstance where Milliband could 'win' a debate with a dead badger let a lone a real live human. I cannot for the life of me see any sense in having 7 people involved in a televised political debate. Question Time struggles at times with only 4 or 5 participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It doesn't look good for him though. He should just do it. I agree with the dead badger bit tbh which is why I can't understand why Cameron is acting like he's nervous about it.. That's the way it looks to me anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristle Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I seem to remember he was keen to do it before the last election so why not now. Perhaps he realises he is the one who is going to be in the firing line and will have to defend his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 He would be better doing it and potentially look bad than not do it at all and look even worse. Like someone the other day said - just stick a plate of Eton mess on his seat :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Personally I think the TV debates are a waste of time and money. A reflection of voting for personalities rather than policies. Its unlikely Cameron will get much of a boost if he does well, and if he does badly then more likely to reflect badly on him.TV debates are not a fundamental part of the democratic process though. They are a relatively recent US import which allows the designated winners throw trivial sound bites at one another. I can only applaud Cameron for his stance. I hate these TV debates. If you want to know more on policies etc then read the manifestos, pick up a newspaper, study the previous form and achievements of the politician concerned. Don't base your decisions on an hour long farce. TV debates just pushes people towards soundbite politics. Passion and conviction are merely decoys to assist in the cover up the lies, soundbites and empty promises that are made at these debates. Its slightly entertaining listening to the excuses and evasion for the 90 minutes duration but nothing meaningful is achieved other than determining who can come across as the most convincing liar. However, given performances at PMQs I can't imagine a circumstance where Milliband could 'win' a debate with a dead badger let a lone a real live human. I cannot for the life of me see any sense in having 7 people involved in a televised political debate. Question Time struggles at times with only 4 or 5 participants. You start off at the beginning of your comment by making some valid points regarding the reading of manifestos etc, but in reality most people will read the newspapers, the vast majority of which are tory supporting. This biased paper media is then regurgitated by a lazy tv media, who always neglect to mention the sources bias. Ed miliband has been vilified by the media (when you stand up to murdoch you are always going to be punished) and the TV debates will provide a rare opportunity for the public to see him unmitigated by the right wing press. I watch pmq's every week and he frequently wipes the floor with Cameron, who is very much cushioned from negative scrutiny by his friends in the press. I totally get why Cameron is running scared, especially when it is generally agreed he performed badly in 2010 and he knows Ed M is far better than the media give him credit for, I just don't think he should be allowed to veto the debates for everyone else. If he doesn't turn up they need to go ahead regardless. The public want these debates. They should go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 To be fair I don't think ive ever watched prime minister questions, only first minister questions. I was just going by what I've watched on tv and he doesn't seem like he would be that great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 To be fair I don't think ive ever watched prime minister questions, only first minister questions. I was just going by what I've watched on tv and he doesn't seem like he would be that great Stacey its so hard to get a view of PMQs from the news. I sometimes find myself shouting at the tv because they have missed out the best bit in their one minute snap shot. Yes Ed has his bad weeks, but he us a far more adroit performer than the media would have us believe. I've attached an article that I found interesting. It was written by the spectator deputy editor Peter Oborne, one of the rare right wing journalists with integrity (he recently resigned from the telegraph, claiming they tried to stifle his reporting of the HSBC crisis - because HSBC advertise in the telegraph). Despite their opposing political persuasions, he is a huge admirer of Milibands. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9438172/ed-milibands-biggest-critics-dont-hate-him-for-how-hes-failed-they-hate-him-for-how-hes-succeeded/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You start off at the beginning of your comment by making some valid points regarding the reading of manifestos etc, but in reality most people will read the newspapers, the vast majority of which are tory supporting. This biased paper media is then regurgitated by a lazy tv media, who always neglect to mention the sources bias. Ed miliband has been vilified by the media (when you stand up to murdoch you are always going to be punished) and the TV debates will provide a rare opportunity for the public to see him unmitigated by the right wing press. I watch pmq's every week and he frequently wipes the floor with Cameron, who is very much cushioned from negative scrutiny by his friends in the press. I totally get why Cameron is running scared, especially when it is generally agreed he performed badly in 2010 and he knows Ed M is far better than the media give him credit for, I just don't think he should be allowed to veto the debates for everyone else. If he doesn't turn up they need to go ahead regardless. The public want these debates. They should go ahead. You think the press are right wing? You must be communist then. The only right wing paper I can think of is the Daily Mail and to be honest even they do not go overboard with actually supporting conservatives. On the TV, the BBC is blatantly left wing and the rest maybe try to be more neutral. As to TV debate, it is pretty meaningless and shallow. If people really need help in making up their minds they should read manifestos not base it on a one hour TV performance. Didn't Nick Clegg do rather well last time? Doesn't that prove it is not the best way to decide who to vote for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You think the press are right wing? You must be communist then. The only right wing paper I can think of is the Daily Mail and to be honest even they do not go overboard with actually supporting conservatives. On the TV, the BBC is blatantly left wing and the rest maybe try to be more neutral. As to TV debate, it is pretty meaningless and shallow. If people really need help in making up their minds they should read manifestos not base it on a one hour TV performance. Didn't Nick Clegg do rather well last time? Doesn't that prove it is not the best way to decide who to vote for? The Daily Telegraph Right, conservative Conservative Party The Sunday Telegraph Centre-right, conservative Financial Times Economically liberal, politically centrist Conservative The Sunday Times Right Conservative Party The Guardian Centre-left and social-liberal Liberal Democrats The Observer Centre-left, social-liberal The Independent Economically liberal, politically centre-left Liberal Democrats The Times Centre-right Conservative Party Independent Print Limited Centre-left, liberal views Daily Mail Right Conservative Party Daily Express Right Conservative Party The Mail on Sunday Right Conservative Party The Sun conservative Conservative Party The Sun on Sunday conservative Daily Mirror left-wing, populist Labour Party Sunday Mirror left-wing, populist Labour Party Daily Star conservative Daily Star Sunday conservative This is a fairly comprehensive list of most newspapers and the parties they support. Only one paper supports Labour. 12 support the conservatives. Personally I don't think you have to be a communist to recognise the bias. Also the old adage that the BBC is left wing has died a death. It may once have been true, but now it is recognised to lean the other way. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-accused-ofpolitical-bias--on-the-right-not-the-left-9129639.html This is why the tv debates are so important. A whole two hours where people get to see the leaders through their own eyes, not through the selective lens of a right wing paparazzi determined to capture the most ridiculous shot possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Do we need another thread on the same topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Great news. If Labour win the election they will enshrine leadership debates in law. No future PM will be able to wriggle out of them or veto them, including of course Ed M himself. This is good news for democracy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/07/ed-miliband-leaders-tv-debates-guarantee-law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You start off at the beginning of your comment by making some valid points regarding the reading of manifestos etc, but in reality most people will read the newspapers, the vast majority of which are tory supporting. This biased paper media is then regurgitated by a lazy tv media, who always neglect to mention the sources bias. I credit people with being wise enough to know the biases of newspapers. Ed miliband has been vilified by the media (when you stand up to murdoch you are always going to be punished) and the TV debates will provide a rare opportunity for the public to see him unmitigated by the right wing press. Ed Millibean has been vilified as he is a useless leader, a sub-Bliar clone, who is clueless as to the workings of the real world. Even the "more lefty than thou" Grauniad has little good to say about him. I agree he should be in the debates, I could do with the laughs. I watch pmq's every week and he frequently wipes the floor with Cameron, who is very much cushioned from negative scrutiny by his friends in the press. I totally get why Cameron is running scared, especially when it is generally agreed he performed badly in 2010 and he knows Ed M is far better than the media give him credit for, I just don't think he should be allowed to veto the debates for everyone else. If he doesn't turn up they need to go ahead regardless. The public want these debates. They should go ahead. I agree that the debates should go ahead without Cameron if he chooses not to attend, they'll still be a laugh, watching Farage wipe the floor with Millibean, and the Greeny loopies showing off how mad they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I've merged two threads on the same topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks Ali for combining the two threads. As for people who use the terms Milibean and Greeny loopies. I highly recommend the telegraph comments pages. They are full of right wingers making equally vapid arguments. One recently advised my lovely thoughtful wife to 'go and boil your head you lefty troll'. I admit its hard to have faith in such people recognising they are being brainwashed by right wing media bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks Ali for combining the two threads. As for people who use the terms Milibean and Greeny loopies. I highly recommend the telegraph comments pages. Millibean is a Private Eye cartoon character, a very apposite one. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/strips/adventures_of_mr_milibean/1276.gif They are full of right wingers making equally vapid arguments. One recently advised my lovely thoughtful wife to 'go and boil your head you lefty troll'. I admit its hard to have faith in such people recognising they are being brainwashed by right wing media bias. Such lovely stereotyping you show, with just a hint of lefty thought police. Are people with right of centre views not allowed to comment here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Millibean is a Private Eye cartoon character, a very apposite one. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/strips/adventures_of_mr_milibean/1276.gif Oh I see, it is used in the same way flashman is used to describe Cameron. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/12/david-cameron-bullying-flashman-turn-off-women-voters Such lovely stereotyping you show, with just a hint of lefty thought police. Are people with right of centre views not allowed to comment here? and Greeny loopies is not stereotyping? Is it not a touch arrogant to believe you are somehow impervious to the accusations you make of people to the left? Night night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Oh I see, it is used in the same way flashman is used to describe Cameron. http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...f-women-voters Exactly. and Greeny loopies is not stereotyping? Is it not a touch arrogant to believe you are somehow impervious to the accusations you make of people to the left? Where have I said I think myself "impervious"?Sleep well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Great news. If Labour win the election they will enshrine leadership debates in law. No future PM will be able to wriggle out of them or veto them, including of course Ed M himself. This is good news for democracy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/07/ed-miliband-leaders-tv-debates-guarantee-law The Prime Minister and Leader of The Opposition debate at Prime Minister's Questions weekly, and this is televised. Why bother wasting parliamentary time on law for something which already happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 The Daily Telegraph Right, conservative Conservative PartyThe Sunday Telegraph Centre-right, conservative Financial Times Economically liberal, politically centrist Conservative The Sunday Times Right Conservative Party The Guardian Centre-left and social-liberal Liberal Democrats The Observer Centre-left, social-liberal The Independent Economically liberal, politically centre-left Liberal Democrats The Times Centre-right Conservative Party Independent Print Limited Centre-left, liberal views Daily Mail Right Conservative Party Daily Express Right Conservative Party The Mail on Sunday Right Conservative Party The Sun conservative Conservative Party The Sun on Sunday conservative Daily Mirror left-wing, populist Labour Party Sunday Mirror left-wing, populist Labour Party Daily Star conservative Daily Star Sunday conservative This is a fairly comprehensive list of most newspapers and the parties they support. Only one paper supports Labour. 12 support the conservatives. Personally I don't think you have to be a communist to recognise the bias. Also the old adage that the BBC is left wing has died a death. It may once have been true, but now it is recognised to lean the other way. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-accused-ofpolitical-bias--on-the-right-not-the-left-9129639.html This is why the tv debates are so important. A whole two hours where people get to see the leaders through their own eyes, not through the selective lens of a right wing paparazzi determined to capture the most ridiculous shot possible. Interesting I didn't know that. I like to read The Independent usually. I 'used' to support Lib Dems until they basically ditched half of their (the most important) policies in the coalition. I've registered to vote but I'm unsure of who I want to vote for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I am glad that more parties are getting involved with the TV debate. It's only fair other parties get more publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I hope Natalie Bennette doesn't go all nervous again. That was cringey, I felt so sorry for her lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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