Moving to Ireland OR Australia: the place, the culture, the people, the jobs?

[Guest spreadingwings]

Australia getting too expensive - thoughts?

 

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1670908

[Skani]

But is it AS bad as the tabloids make it out to be? Is it THAT cold, or THAT grey, or THAT rainy?

 

 

 

You don't have to take any notice of the tabloids. There is plenty of factual weather data from respective meteorology offices available for comparison.

[robfromdublin]

Yeah I think if you're coming from Cape Town and your mother is begging you not to go somewhere cold then avoid Ireland! It never gets really cold but it rains more often than in Cape Town and is generally colder, more so in summer.

 

And yes, Oz is very expensive so you have to be careful in comparing salaries between countries. If I converted mine to euro I'd be doing really well, but the reality is somewhat different.

[Marisawright]

Weather is certainly one of the main determining factors, mainly because I have to consider my mom. She gets cold (freezing!) in Cape Town and gets to the point where she can't even feel her fingertips! She is happy to share in the adventure but has begged me not to take her anywhere cold. Unfortunately, Ireland is one such place. But is it AS bad as the tabloids make it out to be? Is it THAT cold, or THAT grey, or THAT rainy?.

 

Yes it is, if you're used to an African climate.

 

I lived in Southern Africa for three years and I was stunned how cold and dreary Scotland felt when I returned. I grew up there and I knew the weather wasn't great, or course, but I didn't remember it being THAT bad. I absolutely froze, and I was in a part of Scotland usually considered milder. That's why, when we go back, we're going to the South of England!

 

There is a big South African community in Sydney (mostly Jewish but there is a variety) and as Lady Rainicorn says, I think the lifestyle here would be more recognisable for you.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Yeah I think if you're coming from Cape Town and your mother is begging you not to go somewhere cold then avoid Ireland! It never gets really cold but it rains more often than in Cape Town and is generally colder, more so in summer.

 

And yes, Oz is very expensive so you have to be careful in comparing salaries between countries. If I converted mine to euro I'd be doing really well, but the reality is somewhat different.

 

If not cold, then maybe it's workable? Though, besides the cold, there are a lot less daylight hours according to the stats, so that would limit getting out and about - there's so much wonderful wildlife in Ireland too (birds, mammals) but if you can't get out to see and photograph them, that's a bit of a problem.

 

Yes it is, if you're used to an African climate.

 

I lived in Southern Africa for three years and I was stunned how cold and dreary Scotland felt when I returned. I grew up there and I knew the weather wasn't great, or course, but I didn't remember it being THAT bad. I absolutely froze, and I was in a part of Scotland usually considered milder. That's why, when we go back, we're going to the South of England!

 

There is a big South African community in Sydney (mostly Jewish but there is a variety) and as Lady Rainicorn says, I think the lifestyle here would be more recognisable for you.

 

I can imagine that it must've come as quite a shock South and South-East of England is an amazing region!

[paddymacs]

Im in Ireland and We have daylight that extends from 8-9 hours in winter per day to 17 in summer (some days its bright till 10.30pm -11pm). While weather may not be great we do get alot of daylight hours :-) Somehow because of the rain even in daylight it can feel dark and miserable if you know what i mean!? I find the weather hard and dreary looking out at it but i love the daylight. We are also having a very mild winter its about 7 degrees ATM with a high of 9 today and a low of 5.

[Guest spreadingwings]

Im in Ireland and We have daylight that extends from 8-9 hours in winter per day to 17 in summer (some days its bright till 10.30pm -11pm). While weather may not be great we do get alot of daylight hours :-) Somehow because of the rain even in daylight it can feel dark and miserable if you know what i mean!? I find the weather hard and dreary looking out at it but i love the daylight. We are also having a very mild winter its about 7 degrees ATM with a high of 9 today and a low of 5.

 

9 and 5 are very cold in South African terms But not as cold as freezing or negative numbers! I can't believe you get 17 hours in summer. That's pretty amazing

 

Out of five days in a week (in winter/summer), how many would let you get out and about and enjoy nature?

[paddymacs]

LOL - I thought that about the temps after i had submitted it but it is considered mild for us!

in winter if its not raining we get out every weekend over Christmas we went to the Phoenix Park (which i think is the largest park in Europe i may be wrong) to see the wild deer we also fed the ducks. We also walked along the river boyne and the boyne canal in Slane over Christmas it was cold and he canal was frozen over but we were well wrapped up and it got is out for an hour. We were on the beach last week only for a walk though and again well wrapped up but it was lovely. In summer we would be out every day i have 3 kids and im at home with them so we get out daily if itS not raining. My son plays soccer on the green in front of our house and sun is out today so he will definitely be out when he comes home from school (if it doesn't rain in mean time) DH also like to jog and we have dogs so rain hail or sun one of us is walking or running every day!

[Guest spreadingwings]

You're giving quite a positive review of living in Ireland here Are you planning on moving to Aus? If so, what's drawing you there?

[Guest]

Yes it is, if you're used to an African climate.

 

I lived in Southern Africa for three years and I was stunned how cold and dreary Scotland felt when I returned. I grew up there and I knew the weather wasn't great, or course, but I didn't remember it being THAT bad. I absolutely froze, and I was in a part of Scotland usually considered milder. That's why, when we go back, we're going to the South of England!

 

There is a big South African community in Sydney (mostly Jewish but there is a variety) and as Lady Rainicorn says, I think the lifestyle here would be more recognisable for you.

 

I lived in Perth for 5 years and was stunned by how amazing Scotland was when I returned. We'd moved to Scotland originally from the South-East of England and our friends thought we were mad and everyone mentioned the weather but it really didn't bother us at all (I'd grown-up the the North of England anyway). We moved to Perth after 7 years in Scotland and found the weather much more restrictive, days had to be planned around the heat, whereas in Scotland we'd get up whenever on a weekend and go for a bike ride when we fancied, if it was raining you'd put of a waterproof no biggie (the rain in Scotland and Ireland is mostly soft rain, you get wet but don't really feel it with a waterproof on). In Perth in the summer we'd have to set an alarm so that we could be up and out early before it got too hot and spend half the day lolling about doing nothing (or go shopping in an air-conned mall). Then in the winter the wind and rain could be fierce and we didn't go out at all. To be fair Spring and Autumn were wonderful, it wasn't all bad!

 

Coming from SA though you will be much more used to the heat - I remember going for a bike ride in the Bontebok NP on Christmas day and nearly expiring from the exertion in the heat - I had to turn back as I really was in danger of collapse. So maybe that'll just make you laugh and you'll realise I'm a pale English rose just not cut out for a hot climate.

 

I just wanted to add balance to Marisa's post though - I am not in anyway saying she is wrong her experience/opinion is just as valid but it's not the same as mine.

 

Billy Connelly famously said there is no such thing as bad weather just the wrong clothes and I would entirely agree that's true in Scotland but for me that was not the case in Perth - there are only so many clothes you can take off!

 

I also found the dark summer nights awful in Perth - it's so lovely in the summer being out in daylight until 10pm. Australian friends said we'd come to love it as it is cooler which I got but it just seemed then that it was dark for the nicest part of the day.

 

But having said all this and read your various posts/reasons I do tend towards thinking Australia is your best option, it just wasn't mine!

 

If you plan to regularly visit SA though do have a look at the cost of flights from Dublin/Sydney - I found flights from Australia very expensive and that was ultimately one of our reasons for returning, I am a travel addict and I couldn't indulge so much living there and I wanted to visit my parents each year which took a huge chunk of play money and holiday leave.

 

She doesn't post on here very often but it could be worth you having a chat with @SalMart - she moved from Cape Town to Perth and after 5 years moved to Scotland, she has absolutely no doubt that Scotland is far better. Not that Scotland is on your agenda but Scotland and Ireland are very similar in culture and climate (Ireland is a little milder).

 

And remember nothing is for ever - toss a coin if you are that unsure and if it doesn't work out try the other one!

[Guest spreadingwings]

Hi guys

 

Still deciding between the two. Many pros and cons both ways.

 

Which of these countries would be a more comfortable space for an elderly parent ... in general?

[robfromdublin]

Australia

[Guest spreadingwings]

Australia

 

Thanks Rob! Would most of this come down to weather and ease of getting around, or do you think healthcare etc. is better in Aus too?

[robfromdublin]

I think you're coming at this the wrong way. Nobody will be able to give you an 'in general' answer because there are just too many variables and they will mean different things to different people. I would suggest you rank all the things important to you and determine which country is best for those specific things. Climate, for example: if this is the most important thing to you then you should investigate this, figure out which is best for you and give the winning country 5 points or something. Then move on to other specific things. The country with the most points at the end, wins.

 

Why did I pick Australia? Primarily because the emergency departments in Ireland's hospitals are a disgrace and I wouldn't want to see my mother sitting on a trolley for 24 hours straight waiting to be admitted. No other reason and I didn't take into account any important stuff like weather and possibility of heat waves, community support for the elderly, etc., etc.

 

I don't know your situation though. The above might not be relevant to you. Or your mother might get free healthcare in Ireland but pay through the nose in Australia. You really need to methodically go through each and every item that is important to you and form an opinion of which country is best through that process. Strangers on an internet forum can help with specific questions about certain items, but they can't answer questions like 'where's best?' because the right answer for you is very subjective.

[MARYROSE02]

Think of it as two 'right' decisions, rather than one right and one wrong. The only 'pro' Australia point I will make (from someone who has never been to Ireland, too), is the majority of Irish people I've met, whether from south or north, just like their English/Welsh/Scottish counterparts, prefer their lives in Australia.

[robfromdublin]

Yes but that's a heavily biased sample. The majority of Irish people who don't prefer their lives in Australia, leave. Hence you would not have met them.

[Paul1Perth]

I've met a few Irish people who have had a great life here but were leaving because they "missed the crack". I think It's only ever been Irish I've known to say this and if you've grown up with the crack that they miss so much and the Irish don't go big on the hot weather and the beach, a lot of the ones I've met have been lilly white, suffer from sunburn something chronic and tend to go red, peel then back to lilly white again.

 

We've met a lot of people from Cape town here who have said it's a lot like living there without the problems. They seem to settle well, I think the climate, people being interested in sport, opportunities to do a lot of sports that SA people seem to like, biking, swimming, river and Ocean paddling, adventure racing. A lot of the South Africans we've met are real go getters too and most seem to have started their own business's. General observation I know but we know a few who have had a go at a few different business ventures. Maybe it's due to the SA way of life, where if you don't get off your butt and do something then the state is not going to look after you. A good trait if your emigrating.:cool:

[robfromdublin]

I think that's a good point Paul. You can look at the practicalities all day long but, in the end, it comes down to whether the country is a good fit for you and this often comes down to those unquantifiable things that we nevertheless experience everyday. This can be encapsulated in the Irish concept of 'craic', which is something like 'fun' and can be found in the everyday interactions on the street, in work, in shops, etc. This builds to form a culture, a sort of community outlook on life generally which is quintessentially from that place.

 

An Australian example might be the Richie Benaud lookalikes at the cricket, or a more everyday example might be the extremely polite and usually very good customer service in shops, cafes, etc.

An Irish example might be the gentle slagging you get from a barman, or the bus driver I had once who took a different route to avoid traffic, but made it up to us by giving a series of celebrity impersonations over the PA.

 

All these little things build up to create an atmosphere which is very difficult to objectively quantify but is definitely there. The enjoyment of this, or otherwise, is very particular to a person and can't really be generalised. You can speculate that Irish people are pale and suffer the sun, or South Africans are into individual, outdoor sports, but that's all it is: speculation on broad assumptions that almost certainly can't be applied to a given person's situation.

 

So yeah, the Irish kind of have a word for it (although it also means other things in different contexts) but it's still felt by everyone and can be a major component in both homesickness and the (sometimes militant) idea that one country is undeniably better than another country.

[Paul1Perth]

I think that's a good point Paul. You can look at the practicalities all day long but, in the end, it comes down to whether the country is a good fit for you and this often comes down to those unquantifiable things that we nevertheless experience everyday. This can be encapsulated in the Irish concept of 'craic', which is something like 'fun' and can be found in the everyday interactions on the street, in work, in shops, etc. This builds to form a culture, a sort of community outlook on life generally which is quintessentially from that place.

 

An Australian example might be the Richie Benaud lookalikes at the cricket, or a more everyday example might be the extremely polite and usually very good customer service in shops, cafes, etc.

An Irish example might be the gentle slagging you get from a barman, or the bus driver I had once who took a different route to avoid traffic, but made it up to us by giving a series of celebrity impersonations over the PA.

 

All these little things build up to create an atmosphere which is very difficult to objectively quantify but is definitely there. The enjoyment of this, or otherwise, is very particular to a person and can't really be generalised. You can speculate that Irish people are pale and suffer the sun, or South Africans are into individual, outdoor sports, but that's all it is: speculation on broad assumptions that almost certainly can't be applied to a given person's situation.

 

So yeah, the Irish kind of have a word for it (although it also means other things in different contexts) but it's still felt by everyone and can be a major component in both homesickness and the (sometimes militant) idea that one country is undeniably better than another country.

 

I knew I had spelt it wrong rob, the "Craic".

 

There is certainly a "Craic" in Aus and it's finding it that is the secret to having a good lifestyle here. In the UK my Craic used to revolve around going to the pub nightly, playing darts and dominoes a few beers and side splitting laughs in the pub. Weekends playing soccer with a few mates at as high a level I could get to. Followed, obviously, by more time in the pub.:wink:

 

Here my Craic has changed to getting up early in the morning, going for a ski paddle with friends, cup of coffee and a laugh before heading to work. Weekends spent on the beach which the wife loves too, which helps a lot. Doing triathlons, adventure race weekends away with a bunch of friends. We still have the same amount of laughs but the central meeting point for everyone in the UK was the pub, whereas here it's the beach.

 

I still love a pint and a night in the pub a lot more than most of the Aussies I hang around with. I went for a longish bike ride with Aussie friends over Christmas and stopped at Mindarie where we had a coffee. A few days later I did the same ride with an English friend and we got to Mindarie and had a beer at the brewery.:laugh: We thought about having a few more and ringing the wife to come and pick us up, we could have slashed the tyres and told them we'd had a puncture.:wink:

 

We resisted though and rode back.

 

The Craic is there in each and every country, it's just a different one and finding it is the answer.:cool:

[Missy]

I'm from Ireland, now living in Melbourne and have family and friends in both countries. The people, I've found to be extremely friendly in both places. Although I earn more over here, my job is very similar to what it was like at home but it's takes me much longer travelling to work here. The weather, even in Melbourne wins hands down over Ireland. I love my life in Australia and I agree with Paul about finding the craic in both countries. Having said that though, I will eventually return home at some stage in my future, just don't know when yet!

Best of luck with whatever country you decide on.

[MARYROSE02]

Yes but that's a heavily biased sample. The majority of Irish people who don't prefer their lives in Australia, leave. Hence you would not have met them.

 

No, because when I talk to them, I ask them questions along the lines of 'Do you like it here?', 'Would you like to live here?' 'Are you homesick', 'Do you want to go home?' I don't ask them any 'leading questions.' I ask the same questions of people from other parts of the world. Some, perhaps more the ones on WHV, might say they are going home, but then again, most of them don't have the option to stay, although many do try.

 

I'm genuinely interested in their answers, and most of them are staying, or want to stay. I remember sitting next to an Irish girl in the Trinity Bar last year, and starting to chat, and she was going home with her boyfriend after a few years here. They missed their families too much. I'd be interested to see how she is getting on, because it's also a fact that about half of the migrants who do go home, change their minds again, and realize that Australia is where they want to live.

 

I'm not saying that Australia is better than Ireland, or anywhere else, and it would be nice to have the option of trying both. I guess if you have a good job, it does not matter really where you live.

[Marisawright]

No, because when I talk to them, I ask them questions along the lines of 'Do you like it here?', 'Would you like to live here?' 'Are you homesick', .

 

The point Rob was making is that you can't ask those questions of the unhappy ones, because they have already left. And I also think he's talking about families who come here, not the kind of young people you're likely to meet in pubs, who are here for the adventure rather than to settle forever.

[FOL]

Hi fellow digital maketing mate. You'll be fine in that industry I tell ya that i ran my own agency, before I sold it due to moving back to europe again.

[MARYROSE02]

The point Rob was making is that you can't ask those questions of the unhappy ones, because they have already left. And I also think he's talking about families who come here, not the kind of young people you're likely to meet in pubs, who are here for the adventure rather than to settle forever.

 

That is true, but remember, it's also a fact that the majority of migrants, from which ever country of origin, live mostly happy lives in Australia, although it may take a while for some to settle. Even if 100 per cent of those people who go back say how unhappy they were in Australia, they still represent a minority.

 

Yes, I guess I do mostly ask people whom I meet in pubs, or cafes, and they are mostly young(er), and maybe they did come intitially for an adventure, as I did myself, come to think of it. But then most of them settle down, go through the normal life cycle, raging through their 20's and 30's, before meeting 'the one', marrying, mortaging, staying.

 

I know one young guy, whom I met on his first night in OZ, in a YHA hostel. When I met him next, a couple of years later, he had changed his WHV for a 457, and now he is a permanent resident, with his next objective citizenship. He's just got a new job on a superb salary, and although he often goes back to Ireland to see his folks, he has no intention of going back to live.

 

I know I don't get the chance to speak to young families. I do often hear the 'foreign' accents around me when I'm at the beach, and sometimes I'll strike up conversations. Perhaps, young families, or just families, are actually better able to cope than young singles, anyway. I don't know, perhaps because they are trying to 'live' here, rather than just 'party' from day one. After a couple of years in school, the kids ARE Aussies, complete with accent.

 

Maybe it is harder for families, particularly the mother, if she is not going out to work, and more so if 'trapped' out in the 'burbs, which can seem like 'open prisons' if you dont' have a car! But also, things do change, sometimes imperceptibly, hence the people who decide to go back, then find out, often too late, that they were happy here after all.

 

I always remember reading about an English couple who emigrated to NZ, and immediately hated it, and spent the next two years planning to go 'home', but over those two years they experienced the same sort of 'metamorphisis?' we all do, gradually 'becoming', well, Kiwis in their case, and all the things they previously found 'alien', they came to love. On a banal level, if that is the right word, I started off missing blackbirds and oak trees, and now it's kookaburras and gum trees!