Oz Citizenship Dilemma

[lawlere]

If I was in your situation, my question would be: "Would I ever move to Australia long-term/permanently without my partner?" If the answer is no, then I wouldn't bother with citizenship. If the answer is yes, then I'd do the year back in Australia and go for it.

 

Your wife seems to have been very clear about not wanting to return to live in Australia and while I acknowledge things can change, I think we sometimes use that possibility of change as an excuse to not face the facts in front of us - which in this case are that your DW has no intention of living in Aus again. If you really do think you'd consider living here (in Aus) without her then you shouldn't feel ashamed about that, lots of couples find they want different things and have to split to achieve them. Where there are no children involved I think it's okay to be "selfish" to some extent.

 

All that said, you have said that you feel your long term future is in the UK or Ireland so I wonder if it's just the fact that you can get citizenship that makes you want it. If it was very difficult or very expensive to achieve would you pull out all the stops to get it?

I agree - I think my wife has no intention of ever wanting to set foot in Australia again, and trenchantly brings up all the times when I moaned and complained about various things while we were there. The thing is that I believe this is a defence mechanism as loads of people do the same thing but it doesn't ultimately mean they hate the place. I do see the long term future in Ireland/UK while our parents are alive but that could well change when they are gone, even for my wife, and is just think its a shame to close the door at this stage of the game. I've a couple of older friends in their sixties who spend half the year in Oz to escape the winters (one has citizenship and works for a few months there to fund himself) and it's killing me to think that I will probably look back regretting the missed opportunity.

[lawlere]

You may think I'm mad suggesting this, but why don't you both see a guidance counsellor so that you can talk the issues out both separately and together without too many emotions getting in the way. It may help you both to decide what you really want, both now and long term

 

I have suggested this but my wife maintains it's me that needs the counselling

[weaver]

I have suggested this but my wife maintains it's me that needs the counselling

Then why not go by yourself. Your wife may well agree to go after you have shown willing and at the very least it will help you to decide what YOU want to do.

[Aunt Agatha]

I agree that saying you don't want to live somewhere doesn't mean you hate the place but it might just mean you really don't want to live there again! I do sympathise with your feeling that an opportunity may be lost and should probably recuse myself as we have dual citizenship, as do our children, so we are in a fortunate position.

 

If you did come back to Aus and go for the citizenship, how hard would it be for your wife to move back at a later date if she isn't an Australian citizen?

[Quoll]

But you won't have burned any bridges until 2020 so there really is no need to fret about it now!

[lawlere]

I agree that saying you don't want to live somewhere doesn't mean you hate the place but it might just mean you really don't want to live there again! I do sympathise with your feeling that an opportunity may be lost and should probably recuse myself as we have dual citizenship, as do our children, so we are in a fortunate position.

 

If you did come back to Aus and go for the citizenship, how hard would it be for your wife to move back at a later date if she isn't an Australian citizen?

 

StevenLozza suggested earlier that as the wife of an Australian citizen my wife could apply for Permanent Resident Visa 100 but I am not sure how straightforward this is or how much it would cost.

[lawlere]

But you won't have burned any bridges until 2020 so there really is no need to fret about it now!

 

Yes that's true, I do have till 2020 but after September/October of this year the residency clock starts ticking again and I/we would have to do another 4 years on the trot to get citizenship and won't get any credit for the two years and three months we have already done. That is the real killer. Before 2010 we would have had citizenship by now under the old 2 years on PR rule.

[annever]

I am exactly in the same situation and my flight is booked for September. I know me and if I don't go, it will always be a thorn in my side and I couldn't be fully happy. To add to the insanity, we have 2 children who will come with me (they miss Australia sooooo much ) My husband doesn't really understand why getting the citizenship is so important but he supports me and he has already planned his visits for the next year. We have already been living apart for 9 months when he came back to Europe for his work and I stayed in Australia until the end of the school year. Our relationship did not suffer at all.

This is exactly what Rachel was explaining, I may never use this citizenship but at least I know I have it and that keeps all options open, especially for the children. We are so close that, in my opinion, it would be madness to let it go and re-do the whole process in 2020.

Good luck, whatever your decision will be.

[Sandyp]

Good luck people!

[lawlere]

I am exactly in the same situation and my flight is booked for September. I know me and if I don't go, it will always be a thorn in my side and I couldn't be fully happy. To add to the insanity, we have 2 children who will come with me (they miss Australia sooooo much ) My husband doesn't really understand why getting the citizenship is so important but he supports me and he has already planned his visits for the next year. We have already been living apart for 9 months when he came back to Europe for his work and I stayed in Australia until the end of the school year. Our relationship did not suffer at all.

This is exactly what Rachel was explaining, I may never use this citizenship but at least I know I have it and that keeps all options open, especially for the children. We are so close that, in my opinion, it would be madness to let it go and re-do the whole process in 2020.

Good luck, whatever your decision will be.

 

Hi Annever, I'm amazed to find somebody in such a similar position! Have you thought about how you are going to deal with a potential additional six months wait for a citizenship ceremony (maybe longer according to some posts)? I have emailed my immigration agent (am awaiting reply) to see if the correspondence can be done through her which might potentially allow me to return back to the UK after fulfilling the residency requirements as I wouldn't mind coming back at short notice for the ceremony. To be honest I wouldn't mind staying the extra six months but I'm trying to minimise the time I would be away and put an exact timeframe on the plan as the extra uncertainty about the ceremony wait is another major bone of contention for my wife.

[annever]

Well, if I understand it correctly, you have to be in Australia to receive the notification of the department's decision. Once you have this decision, you can travel while waiting for the ceremony.

This is on their website: "If you need to travel outside Australia after you have been approved for citizenship but before your ceremony, you must travel on your current passport. This will not affect your ability to attend your ceremony or become an Australian citizen. Before you depart you must ensure you have a visa that allows you to re-enter Australia for your ceremony. If the travel validity period on you permanent visa has expired, or is about to expire, you will need to apply for a Resident Return Visa.If you do plan to travel outside Australia before your ceremony, please let us know. Contact the Citizenship Information Line."

 

As such, what you really need to wait for in Australia is the decision. I hope I'm not wrong but it seems pretty clear from the website. For my PR visa, I didn't use an agent and always talked to the immigration officer directly to let him know my plan (I had to be outside of the country to receive my grant). They are very nice people

[Si T]

Being that you asked for opinions I am going to give you mine. It may seem a little blunt but it is with the best intentions.

 

Quoll has stated that in reality you have until 2020 to make a final decision and so you have plenty of time.

 

The blunt bit - You stood in front of your wife and made certain vows to her that you would basically stand by her through thick and thin until you died. You are now saying that you are willing to put that all at risk when you have no need to being that you have other options in the short to medium term. I made the same vows to my wife standing in a church. I have since leaned toward atheism but that doesn't mean that I take the vows I made to my wife any less seriously. No matter what I felt about what I wanted for myself I gave my word on the day that I got married that I would put us as a whole before myself as an individual. Is that such a difficult thing to do, especially when you have an option via the RRV? The bottom line is that you have to look in the mirror in the morning when you shave and have to like what you see. I love living here in Australia but if my wife really didn't like it and wanted to head back then I would be on the next plane out with my RRV in my hand just in case she changed her mind. I would much prefer to be slightly less happy in the UK with her than live in Oz without her. Simple decision for me.

 

I don't mean for the above to offend but am hoping to shock you into seeing sense in the short term.

 

I possibly have a simplistic view of these situations but in my eyes you have a very simple decision to make. RRV and give your wife time or risk losing her by disappearing off to the other side of the world. For those who liken it to those in relationships with servicemen it is completely different. I was a nuclear submariner and the number of the lads who came home to Dear John letters was scary. It was one of the reasons I got out after six years before I had a family.

 

On a slightly more practical note if you did have to reapply for your visa's further down the line I would imagine it is a damn sight cheaper than a divorce.

[Perthbum]

But you will most probably feel the same about oz when you return, the things you disliked are still there....people who say you are mad not returning have never lived in oz and are only going on the stupid TV shows that show oz as a holiday place and not what its like in real life.

[starlight7]

What a difficult decision you have. Only you know your real situation and whether your marriage would survive your absence. To me it seems an awful long time to be apart- would your wife perhaps come and stay with you for a while if you went back? Or does she really really hate it in Australia? maybe she could spend holidays over here and still keep her work in the UK.Would that work?