Guest The Pom Queen Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I just wondered what other people thought of this new scheme. For those who know nothing about it here is some info: Work for the Dole activities provide eligible job seekers with work experience which helps job seekers to learn new skills and improve their chance of finding a job. Work for the Dole activities can include volunteer work with not-for-profit organisations, or local, state, territory or Australian Government agencies. From 1 July 2014, a new Work for the Dole programme will be phased in, in selected areas across Australia. Job seekers aged 18 to under 30 years who are registered with a Job Services Australia (JSA) provider in the selected areas and who have a Work Experience Activity Requirement will be required to participate. More information about these changes is available on the Work for the Dole in selected areas programme page. Job seekers benefit from Work for the Dole activities by: developing on-the-job skills demonstrating abilities to potential employers obtaining references from work experience employers making new work contacts taking part in training staying connected to the workforce. A Work for the Dole placement might see a job seeker working as part of a team with other job seekers, or be an individual placement with a host organisation (such as a community group or charity). The type of tasks could vary but can include opportunities to develop skills in: computing maintenance of vehicles and buildings landscaping or gardening office or retail customer service hospitality, including food preparation woodworking, painting, decorating, metalworking or electrical testing restoring historic buildings and vehicles helping members of the community such as the elderly, people with disability or children (you may require a police clearance before working in nursing homes or with children) recording local history producing videos, websites or publicity materials. The range of activities will be different for each Job Services Australia provider and may include more options than those listed above. Who can participate in Work for the Dole activities? Job seekers registered with a Job Services Australia provider can volunteer to participate in Work for the Dole activities at any time, if both the job seeker and the Job Services Australia provider agree it will be of benefit. Job seekers aged 18 to 49 who have been registered with a Job Services Australia provider for 12 months must participate in a work experience activity (like Work for the Dole) to continue receiving financial help (through income support) from the Australian Government. Job seekers who take part in Work for the Dole activities may be able to get an additional payment of $20.80 a fortnight to help with costs of taking part in the Work for the Dole activity. Work for the Dole and Job Services Australia Job Services Australia providers will ensure Work for the Dole activities: provide flexible work experience opportunities for job seekers to assist them in re engaging with their community and the workplace offer opportunities for structured training for all job seekers where appropriate and available provide work experience that will develop or enhance a job seeker’s ability to work as part of a team, be guided by a supervisor, work independently, communicate effectively and improve motivation and dependability seek local community involvement in activities that will generate outcomes to benefit the community comply with state and territory legislation. Want to know more? Job seekers interested in participating in Work for the Dole should discuss this with their Job Services Australia provider. More information is available on Job Services Australia, work experience activities available through Job Services Australia and how to register with a Job Services Australia provider for job seekers not already connected to a Job Services Australia provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 My thoughts: I have mixed views on this as I think it should be done on an individual basis. For example if you have a youth who just doesn't want to get off their arse and work then I think they should have them scrubbing graffiti off walls etc, sweeping roads etc. However, if you have someone who is out there actively seeking work and can't get a foot in the door I think help with things like cv writing, work experience, education would be of more benefit. I was talking to the manager at JBHiFi the other night a lovely chap who said he was the one who does all the recruiting in Cairns. He is against the idea on the basis that there is no enough work for those who want to get a job and by having the work for the dole it is going to take more jobs away. He also said he had a sales position and 400 people applied for it. What he did tell me is that anyone who is currently not in employment they throw their applications straight in the bin. I asked why and he said that's the way they have been told to do it although he agreed that those not in employment should really take priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I like this idea http://www.streat.com.au/youth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FatCats Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I will soon be unemployed and back in the UK. I will need to look for work and will not be claiming any benefits. If I were to be in a position where the dole was a possibility, I was sitting at home doing nothing, and someone offered me the chance to learn how to restore old buildings (which is something that interests me) in exchange for dole money, then I would jump at the chance. If I were forced into other types of work, such as cleaning graffiti or some of the yuckier aspects of care work, then I don't think I would want to do it. My opinion only of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Working for the dole is a good idea, as long as it is not abused like how it was in england back in the day. The training was lets say remedial (hold a broom this end stuff) then got to do all the shite jobs real paid workers didn't want to do, i stopped doing a course after about five months and went to college and did my city and guilds in painting and decorating, i then got a job with the council, left after four years and went into engineering my real passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker78 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Working for the dole is a good idea, as long as it is not abused like how it was in england back in the day.The training was lets say remedial (hold a broom this end stuff) then got to do all the shite jobs real paid workers didn't want to do, i stopped doing a course after about five months and went to college and did my city and guilds in painting and decorating, i then got a job with the council, left after four years and went into engineering my real passion. Didn't the UK implement this? i remember reading about pointless 'placements' into major supermarket stores where young people who lived in very economically deprived areas (low job prospects) were being made to work in exchange for the dole- neither party was happy- the employer had the added burden of finding more work (during a global financial crisis), the young person was doing something fairly thankless, paid staff resented the threat of those who were working 'for free' and also resented losing some of their duties- it was a big mess. The unemployed in question left their 'placements' with relatively little fewer skills and no job at the end of it- back to square one. Work for the dole here- it depends on how it's administered, but it sounds rather unsound at present. IMO it retracts from larger economic issues and places stigma and responsibility on those that (and not talking about the generational poverty types here) are not responsible for not being able to find secure employment in areas of low socio economic status. You have to be careful, given the history of these things, about how much is good for those in need, and how much serves those in power. Anyone old enough to remember the old YTS schemes back in the 80s in the UK- it was blatant exploitation aimed at those not not able to pursue education or enter a properly paid job. A lot of very young people ie 16 years old, did 40 hour weeks for a tiny amount of wages for years. Sorry to digress, but just suspicious of people down on their luck being potentially exploited by those with more power. I was surprised to see how strict centrelink is here in administering job seeking based benefits. They do make you prove you have applied for X jobs and called X companies etc- it's a lot more strict than the UK. Payments soon stop if you don't meet the ongoing job seeking criteria. Isn't that enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I have mixed feelings. There's good and bad points to it. I think it's good for certain individuals that are lacking in work experience and need some in order to have more chance of getting employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 No open to abuse and a government attempt at a short term fix. No doubt will find support among the more reactionary members on a forum as such but doesn't work. Australia has a rather large young under/unemployed population so will be interested to see how they intend to implement it. Certain areas, for example Kwinana in WA has something like a quarter of its young on the dole. Fact is there are not the jobs there especially in that area to cater for these folk. Besides poor infrastructure in many outlaying, poorly designed burbs provides little in the way of jobs or transport. It will result in the younger being pressured into unsuitable and exploitative positions with in many cases leading to nowhere. Gives employers again the upper hand to treat at will the young person without the fall back of financial assistance if they are mistreated misused or other wise abused. Once again a further attack on those more vulnerable which fits into the ideological pattern of this nasty government very well. The way forward is to increase apprenticeships, something well in decline as employers prefer the easy fix of employing foreigners. Spend money on proper training hand in hand with employers where the young come out with something. Present proposed system far harsher than Thatcher ever proposed when UK unleashed their work for the dole campaign. This government is relying on the conservative nature of this nation in order to introduce some of the harshest neoconservative measures of anywhere. If they all get through it will be time to but a one way ticket. Not to America though as another poster suggested, know places far better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Didn't the UK implement this? i remember reading about pointless 'placements' into major supermarket stores where young people who lived in very economically deprived areas (low job prospects) were being made to work in exchange for the dole- neither party was happy- the employer had the added burden of finding more work (during a global financial crisis), the young person was doing something fairly thankless, paid staff resented the threat of those who were working 'for free' and also resented losing some of their duties- it was a big mess. The unemployed in question left their 'placements' with relatively little fewer skills and no job at the end of it- back to square one. Work for the dole here- it depends on how it's administered, but it sounds rather unsound at present. IMO it retracts from larger economic issues and places stigma and responsibility on those that (and not talking about the generational poverty types here) are not responsible for not being able to find secure employment in areas of low socio economic status. You have to be careful, given the history of these things, about how much is good for those in need, and how much serves those in power. Anyone old enough to remember the old YTS schemes back in the 80s in the UK- it was blatant exploitation aimed at those not not able to pursue education or enter a properly paid job. A lot of very young people ie 16 years old, did 40 hour weeks for a tiny amount of wages for years. Sorry to digress, but just suspicious of people down on their luck being potentially exploited by those with more power. I was surprised to see how strict centrelink is here in administering job seeking based benefits. They do make you prove you have applied for X jobs and called X companies etc- it's a lot more strict than the UK. Payments soon stop if you don't meet the ongoing job seeking criteria. Isn't that enough? Yes they did and as you rightly stated pointless. All part of the neo con agenda, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellybingobingo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I have mixed feelings too , but can be a good thing if they train you in proper skills you don't mind that , I remember the Yts scheme in uk , that's how me and my hubby started 26 pound a week out of that my hubby paid 10 pound board , 8 pound driving lesson , and something like 6 pound for a buss pass to get work . A yts did pay off for my hubby though in the end because he went into the field he wanted be in getting the skills and experience , then college release , then when that ended he carried the study on himself . I was on yts scheme but my 26 quid got made upto 58 pound a week by the company , I ended up piece work after 6 months of that earning 200 quid a week , then it was a lot , then I ended up pregnant so that was that . Hubby carried on though with his . I have mixed feelings about it , but can be good , but can be crap too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 We had this before in 1998 and it just disappeared after a while. I personally think it would only be a good idea if it was part of a proper training programme to give people skills, if the gov paid their fares to work etc and gave an increased amount of the dole to allow them to participate like a worker has to. If they have to pay to get there, buy lunch all that stuff then its no go these people have difficulty getting a resume posted with the amount they have to live on. The built the boardwalk from Hastings to Crib Point with dole recipient labour and some got something out of it. If it did not work before why are we visiting this again, just so people can get free labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolvesaussie Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I am all for it. Did the labour party get rid of it? We used to have it anyway… my friend went thought it with very positive results. At the end of Uni I headed off to the UK , one of my friends who stayed in Melbourne struggled to find work, he had never worked during school/uni (neither had I) and this was proving a real disadvantage (so if you have kids don’t think you are doing them a favour supporting them through studies so they don’t need to work part time). Anyway after a few months of job hunting he couldn’t find work so he was put on a work for the dole program. They try to find an area of interest for you, his, as is mine was computing. He was placed with a charity organisation which had to go out collect old office PC’s stripe them down and make the best new ones possible to give to poor kids or Africa or something… Anyway he really enjoyed it and the experience he had help to land him his first IT job.. My brother also was supposed to go through work for the dole, but he didn’t want to do it, so he withdrew from the dole and feel back onto my parents, who stupidly continued to support him… Great result for the government saving paying out there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I have mixed feelings too , but can be a good thing if they train you in proper skills you don't mind that , I remember the Yts scheme in uk , that's how me and my hubby started 26 pound a week out of that my hubby paid 10 pound board , 8 pound driving lesson , and something like 6 pound for a buss pass to get work . A yts did pay off for my hubby though in the end because he went into the field he wanted be in getting the skills and experience , then college release , then when that ended he carried the study on himself . I was on yts scheme but my 26 quid got made upto 58 pound a week by the company , I ended up piece work after 6 months of that earning 200 quid a week , then it was a lot , then I ended up pregnant so that was that . Hubby carried on though with his . I have mixed feelings about it , but can be good , but can be crap too . YTS were different to enforced work for the dole to enable a roof and food though. As I suggested something that offers genuine training is acceptable. Creating work for the sake off it or placing folk into positions that should be occupied by a fully paid worker, in order for business to cut costs are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolvesaussie Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Petals yes it would have been around 1998-2000 that my friend did the work for the dole program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellybingobingo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 YTS were different to enforced work for the dole to enable a roof and food though. As I suggested something that offers genuine training is acceptable. Creating work for the sake off it or placing folk into positions that should be occupied by a fully paid worker, in order for business to cut costs are not. Yes I agree with you . Couldn't tick like carnt find ya like button lol not showing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The crime is no dole payment for six months for those under thirty and grey area even then. Difficult to fathom any support for this measure. A very right wing agenda to say the least. Still those not impacted by this I suppose will go along with it. Sign of the self absorbed times we live in. Work for the dole can be/is an abuse of power on the vulnerable if not managed correctly. Couldn't trust this present bunch of showers to do the right thing towards disadvantaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 We had this before in 1998 and it just disappeared after a while. I personally think it would only be a good idea if it was part of a proper training programme to give people skills, if the gov paid their fares to work etc and gave an increased amount of the dole to allow them to participate like a worker has to. If they have to pay to get there, buy lunch all that stuff then its no go these people have difficulty getting a resume posted with the amount they have to live on. The built the boardwalk from Hastings to Crib Point with dole recipient labour and some got something out of it. If it did not work before why are we visiting this again, just so people can get free labour. Yes they had it in country WA as well. Thing was once the funding for the project was over most were back on the dole again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think it's worth pointing out that the main reason the YTS was withdrawn in the UK was that it was far too expensive to administer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Open to abuse and not good if companies try to sign up , but asan employer if a lad told me he'd been doing it is view him more favourably the same as if he's been doing charity work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 >>Job seekers aged 18 to 49 who have been registered with a Job Services Australia provider for 12 months must participate in a work experience activity There's the key. If you haven't been successful in finding a job in a year then you have to consider alternatives. You've got to question people's motivation or aptitude if they remain unemployed for that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 >>Job seekers aged 18 to 49 who have been registered with a Job Services Australia provider for 12 months must participate in a work experience activity There's the key. If you haven't been successful in finding a job in a year then you have to consider alternatives. You've got to question people's motivation or aptitude if they remain unemployed for that long. No it means as a rule one doesn't have the right connections and/or skill set in demand at that present time. Instead of putting the fault at the feet of the individual better for the government to offer alternatives that will assist in real work. Wrong to see jobless folk are to blame for their situation. One thing rather obvious for the future is that there is not going to be work at all times for all people. As such essential assistance is in place. The blame should not be on the individual but circumstances generally. The present hope to cut out payments for all under thirty is very hard boiled and luckily unlikely to get past the senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I am all for it. Did the labour party get rid of it? We used to have it anyway… my friend went thought it with very positive results. At the end of Uni I headed off to the UK , one of my friends who stayed in Melbourne struggled to find work, he had never worked during school/uni (neither had I) and this was proving a real disadvantage (so if you have kids don’t think you are doing them a favour supporting them through studies so they don’t need to work part time). Anyway after a few months of job hunting he couldn’t find work so he was put on a work for the dole program. They try to find an area of interest for you, his, as is mine was computing. He was placed with a charity organisation which had to go out collect old office PC’s stripe them down and make the best new ones possible to give to poor kids or Africa or something… Anyway he really enjoyed it and the experience he had help to land him his first IT job.. My brother also was supposed to go through work for the dole, but he didn’t want to do it, so he withdrew from the dole and feel back onto my parents, who stupidly continued to support him… Great result for the government saving paying out there.. Good for your friend, but as they say one sparrow does not make a summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 No it means as a rule one doesn't have the right connections and/or skill set in demand at that present time. Not "at that present time". More like "for 12 months or more". Won't getting these people into a workplace give them more connections and skills? I once watched a neighbour labour fruitlessly for weeks trying to get a moped to work. Eventually I went over and showed him how to test if there was a spark. It was running within the hour. Some people just need a bit of a hint. What course of action would you recommend for someone who hasn't managed to get a job in 12 months? Give them another year on the dole? Just rinse and repeat? You have to break the cycle somehow, and if the individual has run out of ideas then the state has to intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Not "at that present time". More like "for 12 months or more". Won't getting these people into a workplace give them more connections and skills? I once watched a neighbour labour fruitlessly for weeks trying to get a moped to work. Eventually I went over and showed him how to test if there was a spark. It was running within the hour. Some people just need a bit of a hint. What course of action would you recommend for someone who hasn't managed to get a job in 12 months? Give them another year on the dole? Just rinse and repeat? You have to break the cycle somehow, and if the individual has run out of ideas then the state has to intervene. Demand for skills change depending on the cycle of the market. For example it would appear a lot in the engineering and related fields are/will be struggling will the downturn in mining. The house I purchased and now live in was owned previously by an engineer. He was 52 years of age and been unemployed for two years at the time. That was back in 00. He was highly skilled and not short of s few bob but still his wife worked in a nursing home for aged care. As such there is and should be no time limit put on unemployment. Nobody, or very few wish to be living on substance payments on the dole. Hard to keep head above water at best without ideologue nonsense of the Right placing the blame on the poor for being poor. What next a return to the poor houses of old? We need to face it there will be a surplus of people contrary to the amount of work available and at certain times more on the market than normal. It is how a capitalist works. Sounds like another business proposition to me. Managing the poor and unemployed. A whole expanded industry with loads of potential for NGO to manage, organisations that can barely manage themselves I might add. Fact being in this time of 457's and one in four backpackers staying on mysteriously, no one wants young unskilled/semi skilled or old semi skilled and often highly skilled if it comes to that. You don't just break the cycle. That's tabloid talk. You create opportunity where folk can develop a sense of pride and the want due to there being a future. Nothing to do with young unemployed if employers won't skill up locals as apprentices. I've said it all before. There needs something in place where employers are required, a carrot stick approach to take people on into trades. Not import at whim. / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack13 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Why when work is so hard though. perhaps like on the project they should hide the dole money and everyone should have to go look for it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.