Cycle helmet laws in Oz

[Paul1Perth]

Well, I think I've got sympathy for the OP, which must be a first.

 

Helmet laws have driven people off their bikes and into cars. So much so that the law be repealed in Qld. The end result is that Oz has the fattest population outside of the US.

 

Running a red light, however safe, gets people backs up though.

 

I don't think helmet laws have driven people off their bikes. I was out over the long weekend and there were literally hundreds of people out for a ride. If people get off their bikes just because they are supposed to wear a helmet then they are a bit daft. It's a bit like saying you aren't going to drive the car anymore 'cos you have to wear a seatbelt.

 

I still see heaps of people riding without helmets as well though. I don't think it's a high priority with Perth cops, don't know anyone that's been stopped or warned even. Might be someone on here tell me different but it would be few and far between.

 

Think you are drawing a long bow equating compulsory helmet laws with a fat population. There are always going to be fat people and most of the really big ones wouldn't dream of getting on a bike, helmet or no helmet.

[northshorepom]

I don't think helmet laws have driven people off their bikes. .

 

I think they have. It's very marked to me how few people in Sydney are on bikes. OK, it's hilly and the roads/bike path infrastructure is pretty useless for cycling so it's not exactly conducive, but even so...

 

It's not the serious/semi-serious cyclists (leisure or commuters) who are put off - we generally wear helmets all the time anyway. It's the casual, nipping down the shops or round your friend's house sort of journey that gets dissuaded, and kids mucking about in their neighbourhood. Around here that hardly happens - you don't see a lot of kids tooling around on bikes, and as for adult casual cyclists? I can't remember the last time I saw one. People get in their car and drive to the shops instead

 

I think you can put some of this down to changing culture over time, but I'm convinced helmet laws are a big part of it. When we went back to the UK last year we stayed with the outlaws for the first couple of days in Marlow....went for a stroll around town in the evening to help in getting over the jetlag and the first thing I noticed - and it was so marked, it was like a smack in the face - was the difference in the numbers and types of people who were on bikes. There were many multiples more back home, and all ages and types, of both genders. Maybe half wore helmets? But the increased prevalence and demographic diversity was very very obvious. Not at all the handful of MAMILs that is the Sydney norm

[Paul1Perth]

I think they have. It's very marked to me how few people in Sydney are on bikes. OK, it's hilly and the roads/bike path infrastructure is pretty useless for cycling so it's not exactly conducive, but even so...

 

It's not the serious/semi-serious cyclists (leisure or commuters) who are put off - we generally wear helmets all the time anyway. It's the casual, nipping down the shops or round your friend's house sort of journey that gets dissuaded, and kids mucking about in their neighbourhood. Around here that hardly happens - you don't see a lot of kids tooling around on bikes, and as for adult casual cyclists? I can't remember the last time I saw one. People get in their car and drive to the shops instead

 

I think you can put some of this down to changing culture over time, but I'm convinced helmet laws are a big part of it. When we went back to the UK last year we stayed with the outlaws for the first couple of days in Marlow....went for a stroll around town in the evening to help in getting over the jetlag and the first thing I noticed - and it was so marked, it was like a smack in the face - was the difference in the numbers and types of people who were on bikes. There were many multiples more back home, and all ages and types, of both genders. Maybe half wore helmets? But the increased prevalence and demographic diversity was very very obvious. Not at all the handful of MAMILs that is the Sydney norm

 

I guess it's a part of where you go in Aus or the UK then northshore. I see heaps of people of all shapes and sizes riding bikes here. They are slack on the helmet wearing and I think a lot that don't wear helmets are tourists and visitors. We live near the coast though and there are miles of bike paths to go at up and down the coast with a serious number of coffee and cake shops that seem to attract them.

 

When we were back in the UK last summer I hardly saw anyone on a bike around where we used to live just outside Manchester. Roads are busy and there are no bike lanes so its a bit unsafe. I managed to borrow a couple of mountain bikes and me and the youngster took off down the canal path into the pennines and had a few good days out. I saw a few more riding down where my Sister lives in Melton Mowbray but they had a few bike paths down there. To me it was the opposite of what you experienced.

 

I see heaps of people here and saw a lot less where we went to in the UK. When me and the youngster were out we went miles and didn't see many people out at all. Fair few walking but hardly anyone on bikes.

 

One of the bikes we borrowed had a puncture as they had both been in a relatives shed for years and not used. I went into Hyde on the other bike for a new tube and a pump and left the bike outside. The owner saw me park the bike and told me to bring it in the shop while she served me as there was a good chance it might get nicked. I was only in there for about 10 mins.

[Tickled Pink]

Well, I think I've got sympathy for the OP, which must be a first.

 

Helmet laws have driven people off their bikes and into cars. So much so that the law be repealed in Qld. The end result is that Oz has the fattest population outside of the US.

 

Running a red light, however safe, gets people backs up though.

 

We're more like fourth at the moment... and this includes only the more developed countries - so excludes pacific Islanders. Briefly, US are top, then Mexico, New Zealand and then Australia... this is my husbands field of work.

 

http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/Health-at-a-Glance-2013.pdf

[blossom]

These posts have been moved from another thread so you can debate 'till your hearts content. :-)

[Guest]

I don't think helmet laws have driven people off their bikes.

 

I recall reading somewhere that when wearing a helmet while cycling became law, the number of cyclists dropped. Numbers have slowly increased but also so has cycling for pleasure rather than a mode of transport to work. Its swings and roundabouts. Still, it does put a lot of people off, more so those who might commute on a bike than those who go for a 70k bike ride with a road club on a weekend or compete.

 

As for if accidents or injury has dropped because of wearing a helmet... whole other fish to fry.

 

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/

 

http://www.cycle-helmets.com/bicycle_numbers.html

[betterskierthanthewife]

Not sure about Aus but the UK is improving but still way behind Holland, Belgium and Denmark. Was in Holland in February and it's amazing how many people of different shapes, sizes and ages were on the bikes. Sure it's flat but it was also pretty cold and miserable weather wise. In general hardly anyone was wearing a helmet but then they mostly have excellent paths away from cars. Should add that it was also noticeable how much slimmer the general population seemed to be.....

[Xenon4017]

Not sure about Aus but the UK is improving but still way behind Holland, Belgium and Denmark. Was in Holland in February and it's amazing how many people of different shapes, sizes and ages were on the bikes. Sure it's flat but it was also pretty cold and miserable weather wise. In general hardly anyone was wearing a helmet but then they mostly have excellent paths away from cars. Should add that it was also noticeable how much slimmer the general population seemed to be.....

 

You just beat me to it. In typical Aussie style, where they are absolutely convinced that solutions that work the world over just can't work here, they impose restrictions on what is effectively a low risk aerobic leisure pursuit.

 

It's interesting though that WA seems to only pay lip service to the ruling, Qld are actively seeking to abandon it, while VIC police (in this instance at least) are applying the ruling rigidly.

 

In Brisbane we have a city cycle scheme, similar to other European cities. But with the compulsory helmet law, you either have to bring your own, or (re)use the yellow free helmet left in the basket from the previous rider. The drawbacks are obvious, yet up to now the pollies seemed to think the plan was feasible.

 

I'll accept the point about Australia being 4th not 2nd in the fat olympics, but really, are you trying to argue that we're in a good position in relation to our national health?

 

I don't think that abandoning helmet laws will move our position on the league table much, but it might encourage a few to ride to the shops rather than drive. And I think we should take every opportunity to encourage people to adopt a more active lifestyle in general.

[jac2011]

Visiting Holland last summer made me reassess our entire lifestyle. From the minute we drove into the country there were cyclists everywhere. Young, old, families, newborns. It really has to be seen to be believed. I would love my children to be like that.

 

As for the helmet argument, a friend of mine's husband was involved in a very serious accident a few years ago where he was knocked off his bike along a country lane. Even with a helmet he was in a coma and has never recovered to who he was previously. His entire personality has changed and he has some very major physical problems. Without a helmet he wouldn't be here. He is petitioning in the UK to make helmets mandatory. If this puts people of cycling so be it. Its about time helmets just became an acceptable behaviour.

[Xenon4017]

As for the helmet argument, a friend of mine's husband was involved in a very serious accident a few years ago where he was knocked off his bike along a country lane. Even with a helmet he was in a coma and has never recovered to who he was previously. His entire personality has changed and he has some very major physical problems. Without a helmet he wouldn't be here. He is petitioning in the UK to make helmets mandatory. If this puts people of cycling so be it. Its about time helmets just became an acceptable behaviour.

 

Whilst I agree that helmets should be recommended, and certainly not outlawed, I don't see why they need to be made compulsory based upon isolated anecdotes. In the pre-thread to this thread, someone cited a case where a pedestrian was hit and fell, knocking his head. Should a helmet be obligatory for pedestrians too? If not, why not? Surely if it saves just one life......

 

You've just highlighted the benefits of the Dutch way of cycling, yet helmets aren't compulsory there, and participation is very high, yet the hospitals aren't overflowing with head traumas. I believe this leads to car drivers having respect for cyclists, because car drivers also cycle sometimes. Here, car drivers have little respect for an activity they never partake in. And the helmet laws mean that the only cyclists out there are hardline greenies and militant cyclists. It's a bad mix.

 

In Qld at least, the green shoots of common sense are emerging. It'll be legal to ride without a helmet on roads where the speed limit is 60 or less. So round your estate is OK, but not on a dual carriageway.

[Tickled Pink]

Whilst I agree that helmets should be recommended, and certainly not outlawed, I don't see why they need to be made compulsory based upon isolated anecdotes. In the pre-thread to this thread, someone cited a case where a pedestrian was hit and fell, knocking his head. Should a helmet be obligatory for pedestrians too? If not, why not? Surely if it saves just one life......

 

You've just highlighted the benefits of the Dutch way of cycling, yet helmets aren't compulsory there, and participation is very high, yet the hospitals aren't overflowing with head traumas. I believe this leads to car drivers having respect for cyclists, because car drivers also cycle sometimes. Here, car drivers have little respect for an activity they never partake in. And the helmet laws mean that the only cyclists out there are hardline greenies and militant cyclists. It's a bad mix.

 

In Qld at least, the green shoots of common sense are emerging. It'll be legal to ride without a helmet on roads where the speed limit is 60 or less. So round your estate is OK, but not on a dual carriageway.

 

 

It was me that talked about the pedestrian. The reason I cited that example was because this gentleman fell because of a cyclist riding up behind him at speed, without warning, and on a footpath where the bike should not have been. It was not related in any way to the helmet discussion - rather giving justification why I thought it was fair the OP was fined for being on such a path when he shouldn't have been and providing an example as to why this is dangerous.

 

It's one thing to be walking on a shared path, where cyclists and pedestrians need to have awareness of one another, completely another to be on a dedicated foot path and be caught off guard by a cyclist coming from behind unexpected.

 

Once again, this is not linked to the helmet discussion.

[Guest Guest40285]

Heaps of people ride thier bikes around here without skid lids, Byron Bay is full of cyclists, never seen the coppers stopping people for no lid, I grew up riding bikes with out a helmet, just another OHand S thing I reckon, just my humble opinion, even see the roadie blokes out early in thier riding packs without helmets.I reckon it should be your own choice.

[Que Sera Sera]

Done three airport runs this weekend for my friend and daughter from Mandurah to The Domestic and I've seen hundreds all Suited & Booted in their power ranger gear, we ride ourbikes often too.

[starlight7]

They all wear helmets round here- and also most wear that horrible lycra. Can't stand cyclists clogging up the roads and they don't pay for a license either. Should stick to bikepaths and drop the attitude so many seem to have.

[Tickled Pink]

They all wear helmets round here- and also most wear that horrible lycra. Can't stand cyclists clogging up the roads and they don't pay for a license either. Should stick to bikepaths and drop the attitude so many seem to have.

 

I'm a nice cyclist, and I've been told I'm not too bad looking in my Lycra too!

[Xenon4017]

It was me that talked about the pedestrian. The reason I cited that example was because this gentleman fell because of a cyclist riding up behind him at speed, without warning, and on a footpath where the bike should not have been. It was not related in any way to the helmet discussion - rather giving justification why I thought it was fair the OP was fined for being on such a path when he shouldn't have been and providing an example as to why this is dangerous.

 

It's one thing to be walking on a shared path, where cyclists and pedestrians need to have awareness of one another, completely another to be on a dedicated foot path and be caught off guard by a cyclist coming from behind unexpected.

 

Once again, this is not linked to the helmet discussion.

 

Yes, I understand it was related to the "riding on the path" aspect, but the point remains. If one low risk activity is legislated, why isn't another. Far more pedestrians are killed in RTAs than cyclists. The rationale seems to be "How can we reduce the number of cycling injuries" rather than "How can we make cycling safer". The easy answer to the first is to reduce the number of people cycling, which is what's happened.

 

I feel sorry for the other states, and am pleasantly surprised that Qld will wind back at least one piece of nanny state legislation. I look forward to tootling along the prom wearing a sunhat rather than a helmet. And actually, all risks considered, I'm more at risk from the Sun than from a car driving up onto the boardwalk.

[Joebloggs]

I think they have. It's very marked to me how few people in Sydney are on bikes.

 

That's because the buggered off to Canberra, the buses there even have bike carriers on the front so if you get fed up you can take the bus home with the bike.

 

True you don't see many cyclists until you hit a narrow twisty road like Galston gorge and then you are stuck behind 100's of them.

 

I remember 25 years ago watching Neighbours on TV and all the kids wore helmets riding their bikes which I thought was weird, these days I think it's weird not to wear a helmet if it could save your life.

[Xenon4017]

these days I think it's weird not to wear a helmet if it could save your life.

 

And yet very few wear knee, elbow or wrist protection, despite overwhelming evidence to show that these types of injuries far outweigh head traumas in cycling accidents.

[Tickled Pink]

Cycling is hardly a low risk activity... I don't know of any pedestrians that can walk in excess of 60kph down a hill, in contrast, I know many cyclists that can ride that fast! me being one! :biggrin:

 

I think to be honest this isn't a discussion that will ever have a conclusion... I know I will never get on my bike without a helmet, but others don't feel the same. I do think that kids should have to wear one until they can at least make an informed decision. And I also had a long chat with a sibling about why I thought it important for her to wear one when she was cycling with the kids. Partly a role model thing, but also, the kids need her healthy not brain injured because she wasn't wearing a helmet.... because of what I do bike wise I was pleased she listened to me...

 

But each to their own.

[Xenon4017]

Cycling is hardly a low risk activity... I don't know of any pedestrians that can walk in excess of 60kph down a hill, in contrast, I know many cyclists that can ride that fast! me being one! :biggrin:

 

 

 

This is why the Qld law is actually quite clever; it distinguishes between different classes of cyclists. Those, like yourself, who are going at elevated speeds. Who will wear a helmet regardless. And eye protection. And have a well-maintained bike.

 

And those like me, who want to grab the rusty wreck and cycle along the foreshore to the gelateria.

 

My main objection to helmet laws are that

a) it doesn't bring any real additional safety benefits (to cyclists like me)

b) it's "abused" by coppers wanting to generate revenue

c) it give pollies the impression that they can impose a nanny state without any resistance

[Joebloggs]

And yet very few wear knee, elbow or wrist protection, despite overwhelming evidence to show that these types of injuries far outweigh head traumas in cycling accidents.

 

I didn't know a knee, wrist or elbow could kill you. Learn something new every day.

 

Might have to make sure that the likes of Jockeys and F1 drivers protect their elbows, knees and wrists in case it proves fatal.

[Xenon4017]

I didn't know a knee, wrist or elbow could kill you. Learn something new every day.

 

Might have to make sure that the likes of Jockeys and F1 drivers protect their elbows, knees and wrists in case it proves fatal.

 

The point is that people are very bad at assessing risk. They put half an easter egg on their head and they think they're safe. Whilst they take little precaution against the real dangers. Pollies enact helmet legislation because it appears to be the right thing to do, and crucially, is easily policed.

 

Surely this isn't just about fatality or not. Otherwise the anecdote in post #9 would have to be ignored.

 

If you want to draw a parallel with motorsport, why not check out what motorcycle racers wear. Something for you to learn tomorrow perhaps.

[Alnaibii]

I really don't feel safe riding without a helmet on, even though in my country it's not mandatory yet. So many careless drivers, looking only for cops.

[Joebloggs]

The point is that people are very bad at assessing risk. They put half an easter egg on their head and they think they're safe.

 

Well I don't think people think they are safe with a helmet, it doesn't miraculously vaporise a bus or truck that is about to run you over.

 

I think the idea is if you fall off your bike it could prevent you head from coming into contact with the concrete, it's not going to protect limbs and joints but a Helmet is made to a certain standard and I have read plenty of stories that people owe their life to a simple bicycle helmet even though it does resemble something that you find in the packaging for your TV.

 

It's not going to keep you safe, but maybe a little safer .... safer than nothing even if it does look ridiculous.

[Paul1Perth]

They all wear helmets round here- and also most wear that horrible lycra. Can't stand cyclists clogging up the roads and they don't pay for a license either. Should stick to bikepaths and drop the attitude so many seem to have.

 

Someone needs to drop the attitude, that's for sure. Are you such a bad driver that you can't give a cyclist a bit of room to drive by them? They aren't clogging up the roads if they ride properly. Fair enough you see some that aren't doing themselves and the cycling game any favours when they choose to ride along 2 abreast, having a chat like they own the road but generally they keep to the side.

 

It's attitudes of road users like you that make it more dangerous for cyclists.