Decision time

[Rupert]

As some may know, I am a happy migrant so this is not a thread I really expected to be starting, but I think it is a time to reflect and assess our situation and our decision.

 

We are currently in the UK on a trip, came over to ready our house for sale now it is tenant free, but being there again has just made me stop and think.

 

The attraction of the UK at the moment, probably comes down to us owning mortgage free a beautiful restored cottage in the countryside. I renovated it myself and was always a bit sad that I did not spend more time there before moving. It has been lovely pottering around the cottage, tea with neighbours, chatting with people in the village pub. Whereas in Australia we will shortly enter our fifth year of renting and in Sydney, even if we sold the house we owned we would have to get a sizeable mortgage in order to get the house we want in the area we want. It won't be a big house and neither is the cottage, there are only two of us after all, but we would want a nice house and we do want to be in a beach suburb. It is beach suburb (Aus) or country cottage (UK) for us.

 

The other significant consideration is family, whilst we were never in families pockets, but I am very conscious that it will only ever be me and Mr Rupert in Australia as we don't have kids.

 

Other considerations are probably small in comparison. We do prefer the climate in Australia overall and of course we are well aware of the heavy rain and heat at times. We are also settled in Australia with good jobs, we both fitted in at work from day one and we enjoy our jobs and adore our colleagues. If we went back now, we would only go if one of us lines up a job first, but it would probably mean more opportunities for my OH, whereas my Australia stint has probably not enhanced my CV for the UK market, whereas it is often called a "pedigree" CV here. Still we will at least be mortgage free so money won't be so much of a worry and one income will be fine for short term (but I would want to work as I think retiring at 44 would be very lazy).

 

We get citizenship this year, would not consider leaving before then as we do love Australia and if we leave now we would definitely be looking to return in due course as retirees or semi retirees and we would probably flip flop between the two countries for a while.

 

There is no tension between us, we can both see the pros of both locations and I know that either decision will be acceptable to us both. We are very happy and settled in Australia and neither of us has had even a day of homesickness. But we were also happy and settled in UK and I know that we could be again.

 

Thoughts anyone? I am seriously wondering if I should just toss a coin!

[jac2011]

You can always have the best of both worlds, no reason why you cant live in one and visit the other often! I know that doesn't help with a decision but be careful emotions don't take over. During your short stay you will see the rosy side of the UK but try to remember also why you left and why you have been so happy in Australia.

[Quoll]

I tend to go with concrete opportunities - start casting around for the job to kill for and see what happens. If you have a concrete option it is so much easier to make a decision.

 

I was like you for the first 10-20 years - always thinking there would be the capacity to flip flop and, really, only when that was taken away from me the stress started. I settled, never homesick but never quite belonged and always a little alien and isolated.

 

In your situation I would certainly be hesitant about selling a property you quite like - getting back on the ladder is always trickier! (That's the pragmatist in me!)

 

We are lucky though that the world is our oyster!

[Guest Andy]

That's a tough one, and you would also have to consider the housing market in Australia with regards to you getting a mortgage and lumping all of the money you get from the sale of your house in with it. You don't want to find your new house drops in value and you end up instead of being mortgage free but with a big mortgage and a house declining in value.

And I also you have to ask yourself why you went in the first place. A coin looks a good bet to be fair.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I would keep the house, it sounds like our UK house with acreage. Its a shame you can't work and live 6 months in each country as with no children it would give you the best of both worlds

[Rupert]

You can always have the best of both worlds, no reason why you cant live in one and visit the other often! I know that doesn't help with a decision but be careful emotions don't take over. During your short stay you will see the rosy side of the UK but try to remember also why you left and why you have been so happy in Australia.

 

We did not leave the UK for any particular reason, for us it was just an adventure. I know you are right on feeling rosy though, so it will definitely be interesting to see what we think next week when are back in Australia. A move wouldn't be before the new year, but with three cats we need to start planning.

[Rupert]

That's a tough one, and you would also have to consider the housing market in Australia with regards to you getting a mortgage and lumping all of the money you get from the sale of your house in with it. You don't want to find your new house drops in value and you end up instead of being mortgage free but with a big mortgage and a house declining in value.

And I also you have to ask yourself why you went in the first place. A coin looks a good bet to be fair.

 

 

Yes good points on housing and distinctly possible. I was only half jesting on the tossing a coin option! In fact I am going to do that now with Mr Rupert and I will come back and tell you what it said.

[Rupert]

Mr Rupert called it and it was heads for the UK.

[Guest]

I would always say never make the decision while on holiday in one of the places. Wait till you are back 'home' a few weeks and the holiday mode and everything else has had time to settle and you can reflect and consider carefully when back in day to day living.

[Rupert]

I would always say never make the decision while on holiday in one of the places. Wait till you are back 'home' a few weeks and the holiday mode and everything else has had time to settle and you can reflect and consider carefully when back in day to day living.

 

Mmmm that has struck a chord. You are right, I wil probably start saying that mantra myself to others shortly. :laugh:

[Gbye grey sky]

Is it completely impossible to keep the house and buy in Sydney even just to get on the ladder. It seems to me that your future options in Oz will always be limited if you are having to find rentals even if you are thinking only of alternating between the two in your retirement (my ideal really but only practical for the well off or those that have really planned well).

[Rupert]

Is it completely impossible to keep the house and buy in Sydney even just to get on the ladder. It seems to me that your future options in Oz will always be limited if you are having to find rentals even if you are thinking only of alternating between the two in your retirement (my ideal really but only practical for the well off or those that have really planned well).

 

It would not be impossible, in a year say it would be possible, but I am not convinced I want to lumber myself with the level of debt that would require with house prices being as they are in Sydney. The other thing is we just had an awful experience as landlords with the UK house and I don't know that I want to be a landlord again, so it feels like I need to sell, keep empty (not good long term) or move back in.

 

If we did move back into UK house, we are mortgage free and so would over the years buy a house or even apartment in Australia, in north Queensland probably and that would be our retirement flip flopping sorted.

:biggrin:

[NicF]

Is it just the house or is there more to it? Your original post, to me, seemed like it was very much the house you are attached to rather than wanting to be in the UK. If the house burned down tomorrow would you still want to move back? I can certainly understand the reluctance to buy in Sydney and end up with a large mortgage, but is that enough to make you want to move? If you want to be back in the UK even if the house wasn't there then you should definitely move back, if it's just the house then maybe you should stay in Australia and look at other possibilities for buying somewhere.

[Rupert]

Is it just the house or is there more to it? Your original post, to me, seemed like it was very much the house you are attached to rather than wanting to be in the UK. If the house burned down tomorrow would you still want to move back? I can certainly understand the reluctance to buy in Sydney and end up with a large mortgage, but is that enough to make you want to move? If you want to be back in the UK even if the house wasn't there then you should definitely move back, if it's just the house then maybe you should stay in Australia and look at other possibilities for buying somewhere.

 

I can't work out the importance of the house just yet, I need to go through a process to clarify my thoughts more. It certainly is the security of having a house paid for and sorted for rest of our lives that is appealing. We could do this in UK, even if we did not have that particular house, we cannot do that in Sydney. I have been looking at house buying opportunities in Sydney for a long time, they all involve big mortgages in the areas I will consider.

 

Would we otherwise move back, again don't know, I am certainly not yearning to be back in the UK, but equally I know I will be happy and will have a great life there.

[caramac]

Your situation sounds very like ours except that we have children (albeit almost grown ones) in the mix. We came back to the UK because they were unhappy, but apart from that we liked living in Australia.

We left the UK for job opportunities and adventure, not because we were unhappy here.

We were also in Sydney (the second time we were there) and would have had to mortgage ourselves deeply to get a house we would be prepared to buy, in the area we needed to be in.

We own a house in the UK, but don't live in it and we're not going to buy another here - we're looking at maybe buying somewhere cheaper in Aus, so we can spend part of the year there and part here in the next few years (my oh can retire here in two years time and can then work where he chooses. It coincides nicely with our youngest leaving school and she can choose then where she wants to go for uni).

I like the weather better in Australia too (except for missing British summers, which I love, even if it is a bit wet sometimes!), but knowing I can escape the British winter in a couple of years is a lovely thought! My oh's pension is being healthily topped up here, so we should be able to buy somewhere a bit more reasonably priced over there when we're not tied to having to live close to school/work etc.

 

There's so much to think about when you're making these decisions and it does sometimes come down to tossing a coin and sticking with that! (We even consulted the I Ching!!! :wink:).

I do agree with not making a decision when you're in holiday mode though. I remember being here on holiday from Perth one year and thinking I really didn't want to go back, but when I got back to Aus I felt far more settled. Maybe wait to make the choice until you've been back in Sydney for a little while? Waiting for citizenship will at least give you a bit of breathing space and time to really think about what you want. Good luck!

[bell123321]

I would say not to make any decisions whilst your on holiday and wait until you get citizenship before making any decision. It sounds a difficult decision to make as being mortgage free is a very appealing situation to be in compared to having a big mortgage. Would you consider moving to another part of Oz which may be a little cheaper to get a property? Maybe lease your UK property on a short term (6 months) to give yourselves more time to decide? Either way I guess just make the decision where you feel your be more happiest and if you have citizenship in Australia you will always have options.

[Guest guest30085]

Definitely wait until you have citizenship and then re-evaluate. You've always sounded settled in Aus, so maybe you need to get back into everyday living and see if the pull to the UK is still there after a few months. The only other thing would be to look at areas around Sydney that you wouldn't have considered before to see if you can buy a property without being a slave to the mortgage for years to come (easier said than done with Sydney prices I know). As already stated, it's a lucky position to be, but I don't think it makes the decision any easier, just give yourself time when you're back into the normality of everyday living. Best of luck.

[LKC]

As some may know, I am a happy migrant so this is not a thread I really expected to be starting, but I think it is a time to reflect and assess our situation and our decision.

 

We are currently in the UK on a trip, came over to ready our house for sale now it is tenant free, but being there again has just made me stop and think.

 

The attraction of the UK at the moment, probably comes down to us owning mortgage free a beautiful restored cottage in the countryside. I renovated it myself and was always a bit sad that I did not spend more time there before moving. It has been lovely pottering around the cottage, tea with neighbours, chatting with people in the village pub. Whereas in Australia we will shortly enter our fifth year of renting and in Sydney, even if we sold the house we owned we would have to get a sizeable mortgage in order to get the house we want in the area we want. It won't be a big house and neither is the cottage, there are only two of us after all, but we would want a nice house and we do want to be in a beach suburb. It is beach suburb (Aus) or country cottage (UK) for us.

 

The other significant consideration is family, whilst we were never in families pockets, but I am very conscious that it will only ever be me and Mr Rupert in Australia as we don't have kids.

 

Other considerations are probably small in comparison. We do prefer the climate in Australia overall and of course we are well aware of the heavy rain and heat at times. We are also settled in Australia with good jobs, we both fitted in at work from day one and we enjoy our jobs and adore our colleagues. If we went back now, we would only go if one of us lines up a job first, but it would probably mean more opportunities for my OH, whereas my Australia stint has probably not enhanced my CV for the UK market, whereas it is often called a "pedigree" CV here. Still we will at least be mortgage free so money won't be so much of a worry and one income will be fine for short term (but I would want to work as I think retiring at 44 would be very lazy).

 

We get citizenship this year, would not consider leaving before then as we do love Australia and if we leave now we would definitely be looking to return in due course as retirees or semi retirees and we would probably flip flop between the two countries for a while.

 

There is no tension between us, we can both see the pros of both locations and I know that either decision will be acceptable to us both. We are very happy and settled in Australia and neither of us has had even a day of homesickness. But we were also happy and settled in UK and I know that we could be again.

 

Thoughts anyone? I am seriously wondering if I should just toss a coin!

 

We are perhaps in a similar situation to you, albeit with small children. We were happy in the UK, we are happy here. In the UK we lived in a beautiful cottage in the countryside, surrounded by farms, roses around the door, you know the kind of thing. Here we live in a far bigger house, with a pool, a beautiful outlook over national park, and in a nice and family friendly area. Happy in both places.

 

We went over to the UK in September, having already gained our citizenship in Australia. Whilst we were there, I wistfully dreamed of the idillic life we could have back in Kent. Family nearby, a small holding where I could grow our own food, beautiful rolling hills, little country lanes. We could achieve that if we wanted to. We have enough capital in our home/business here to be able to do that. However, when we arrived back in Sydney, I (and OH) felt like we were coming home. I can't really explain exactly how it felt, but it was almost a feeling of peace with being back in Australia. Neither of us had ever experienced homesickness at all, and our girls have lived here for most of their lives, but being back in the UK after so long brought a sense of nostalgia, and it was only when we were back here that I realised that that was what it was.

 

I would certainly not consider making any sort of decision before you have returned to Australia and until you have citizenship. You may find that once you are back, like us, you realise that here is where you belong. On the other hand you may not. That is something that you cannot know until you have done it.

 

One further thing that I would like to mention. Is there actually any harm in renting here long term? The reason I mention this is because quite a number of my (Australian) friends rent, and none of them see that there is anything wrong with this. I wonder if buying a home is more of a British thing to do? Would you consider selling your UK home to purchase a small holiday or residential letting here, so that it is at least making an income as well as increasing in value (if things continue to go as they are). You could then rent your ideal home in a beachside suburb. We bought our home because we have small children, and we would like to be able to give them a stable and permanent home in which to grow up, but as a couple without children is this such an issue? I am only asking because I don't know how I would feel if we hadn't had children.

[docboat]

One thing I would definitely recommend you do is create a mind map specifically on the topic of where you want to live. What you get out of it, after all is said and done, and after you have entered all the data you find relevant for your lives, is a numerical, clear, unemotional assessment of what you should aim for. If you are not familiar with mind maps, though, you need to practice the technique so that you do it properly.

[paul1977]

As some may know, I am a happy migrant so this is not a thread I really expected to be starting, but I think it is a time to reflect and assess our situation and our decision.

 

We are currently in the UK on a trip, came over to ready our house for sale now it is tenant free, but being there again has just made me stop and think.

 

The attraction of the UK at the moment, probably comes down to us owning mortgage free a beautiful restored cottage in the countryside. I renovated it myself and was always a bit sad that I did not spend more time there before moving. It has been lovely pottering around the cottage, tea with neighbours, chatting with people in the village pub. Whereas in Australia we will shortly enter our fifth year of renting and in Sydney, even if we sold the house we owned we would have to get a sizeable mortgage in order to get the house we want in the area we want. It won't be a big house and neither is the cottage, there are only two of us after all, but we would want a nice house and we do want to be in a beach suburb. It is beach suburb (Aus) or country cottage (UK) for us.

 

The other significant consideration is family, whilst we were never in families pockets, but I am very conscious that it will only ever be me and Mr Rupert in Australia as we don't have kids.

 

Other considerations are probably small in comparison. We do prefer the climate in Australia overall and of course we are well aware of the heavy rain and heat at times. We are also settled in Australia with good jobs, we both fitted in at work from day one and we enjoy our jobs and adore our colleagues. If we went back now, we would only go if one of us lines up a job first, but it would probably mean more opportunities for my OH, whereas my Australia stint has probably not enhanced my CV for the UK market, whereas it is often called a "pedigree" CV here. Still we will at least be mortgage free so money won't be so much of a worry and one income will be fine for short term (but I would want to work as I think retiring at 44 would be very lazy).

 

We get citizenship this year, would not consider leaving before then as we do love Australia and if we leave now we would definitely be looking to return in due course as retirees or semi retirees and we would probably flip flop between the two countries for a while.

 

There is no tension between us, we can both see the pros of both locations and I know that either decision will be acceptable to us both. We are very happy and settled in Australia and neither of us has had even a day of homesickness. But we were also happy and settled in UK and I know that we could be again.

 

Thoughts anyone? I am seriously wondering if I should just toss a coin!

Home is where the heart is.. No if's but's or maybe's..!!!'

[Guest Guest 47403]

Home is where the heart is.. No if's but's or maybe's..!!!'

 

It's not that simple though is it Paul? Life isn't like that, you have to consider all the trimmings............................I'd love to live in a lodge over looking a lake surrounded by mountains and forests in the Ardèche, not that simple though.

[Guest Guest16631]

........to me home must be where most of the....needs.....are met....

........and as many of the ,.....wants......as possible....

........and often.....as we get older....

........the scales tip in different directions....

........the best anyone can do is choose what makes them happy....

........for now.....and as far ahead as they think they can see.....

.........because life's just a journey......

..........and we need to enjoy the travelling of it.....

..........so don't over think it ...

..........you'll know in your hearts what will make you happiest......

..........the best if luck........tink x

[paul1977]

 

It's not that simple though is it Paul? Life isn't like that, you have to consider all the trimmings............................I'd love to live in a lodge over looking a lake surrounded by mountains and forests in the Ardèche, not that simple though.

no point in papering over the cracks

[Rupert]

One thing I would definitely recommend you do is create a mind map specifically on the topic of where you want to live. What you get out of it, after all is said and done, and after you have entered all the data you find relevant for your lives, is a numerical, clear, unemotional assessment of what you should aim for. If you are not familiar with mind maps, though, you need to practice the technique so that you do it properly.

 

That is how I want to approach it, in a very logical manner. I don't know about mind maps though, I will have to look that up.

[Rupert]

I would say not to make any decisions whilst your on holiday and wait until you get citizenship before making any decision. It sounds a difficult decision to make as being mortgage free is a very appealing situation to be in compared to having a big mortgage. Would you consider moving to another part of Oz which may be a little cheaper to get a property? Maybe lease your UK property on a short term (6 months) to give yourselves more time to decide? Either way I guess just make the decision where you feel your be more happiest and if you have citizenship in Australia you will always have options.

 

My OH is very tied to Sydney, super niche career with very few options. It is in fact another pro for UK as he would have more options there. I have widened the suburb search as far as I can, even up to a 90 minute commute but still in the type of beachy suburb we want and it still means large mortgage. It is possible we leave the UK property empty whilst we get citizenship and spend rest of year thinking about it. I just can't face being a landlord again at the moment.