Guest Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/03/opinion/australia-asylum-seekers-mcadam/?c=&page=1 Nice to read an academics opinion on it... Interesting article. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Anyone can google an old article to support their views. I'm not sure academics always live in the real world though.I prefer the view of the populace in most cases. And yet you complained and accused me of inventing things when I referenced the SMH poll on the treatment of asylum-seekers arriving by boat, obliging me to share the link. There's no pleasing some people! Any academic works out there that you know of on how Manus and PNG are providing a humane, safe and effective way of processing arrivals by boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 It is good to provide links but this article is over 6 months old and relates to when Labor was in power. I don't argue that the camps need to be humane and safe and I know that is the expectation of them. any issues will be addressed with the camps. But any detention facility will have issues from time to time, whether prison or detention centre, onshore or offshore. Issues need to be followed up when they occur and if any criminality has occurred the offenders should be prosecuted. Overall though the system is operating as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Endless Winter, Can you tell me where you think the asylum seekers have gone instead, now the way to Australia has closed off. It just occurred to me where have they gone ? Stayed home or which country would they have gone to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Plus don't forget, No boats will translate eventually into no one in detention centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Endless Winter, Can you tell me where you think the asylum seekers have gone instead, now the way to Australia has closed off. It just occurred to me where have they gone ? Stayed home or which country would they have gone to ? I imagine that they're probably still in their countries of origin being subjected to persecution and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 I imagine that they're probably still in their countries of origin being subjected to persecution and violence. That is a telling admission. So they could get out of the country if they wanted to, and would if they could get on a boat in Indonesia, but now have decided to stay home instead and continue to be persecuted. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 That is a telling admission.So they could get out of the country if they wanted to, and would if they could get on a boat in Indonesia, but now have decided to stay home instead and continue to be persecuted. Interesting. Or maybe they're heading to other countries where there is a chance of securing safe haven. That safety may be illusory and they may end up in camps similar to the ones in Manus and PNG, just in other countries. Or they could end up dead. One thing is for sure, they have no chance of making it to the safety of Australian soil do they?. The boats may have stopped arriving in Australia, but the desperate circumstances which lead people to paying large sums of money to people smugglers to make dangerous voyages won't have gone away. But hey, it's no longer Australia's problem right, and that's the main thing isn't it?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/rosemount-good-shepherds-community-commerce-scheme-helping-refugees-start-businesses/story-fnixwvgh-1226869129223 Interesting read. Must be a queue of some sort as some waited in turkey before being granted an Aus visa. good to see some have been given an opportunity to somewhat continue the work they enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJa Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I imagine that they're probably still in their countries of origin being subjected to persecution and violence. There are lots of asylum seekers where I live in the UK. They don't appear to have ever been subjected to persecution and violence, and they certainly don't appear to be grateful to the UK for taking them in and providing them with free homes, education, healthcare and money. In fact, they act like we owe them a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 No. Ill believe your original answer Endless, which dies tend to show they are not genuine asylum seekers, who will stay uf they cant get to Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Or maybe they're heading to other countries where there is a chance of securing safe haven. That safety may be illusory and they may end up in camps similar to the ones in Manus and PNG, just in other countries. Or they could end up dead. One thing is for sure, they have no chance of making it to the safety of Australian soil do they?. The boats may have stopped arriving in Australia, but the desperate circumstances which lead people to paying large sums of money to people smugglers to make dangerous voyages won't have gone away. But hey, it's no longer Australia's problem right, and that's the main thing isn't it?. They might end up in UNCHR camps and actually granted asylum in Australia anyway... of course if found to be genuine. It's not as if they might never actually be settled in Australia, you can't really argue with the UNCHR process as it's the only way really to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I imagine that they're probably still in their countries of origin being subjected to persecution and violence. They can apply through the proper channels then, like others waiting in camps for resettlement. You still haven't explained why these queue jumpers should be able to jump the queue ahead of others in need that have gone through the proper channels. Could you just address that point specifically, without accusing everyone of racism, because for pages and pages now it has been one of the key reasons why so many people are glad the boats have stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 They can apply through the proper channels then, like others waiting in camps for resettlement. You still haven't explained why these queue jumpers should be able to jump the queue ahead of others in need that have gone through the proper channels. Could you just address that point specifically, without accusing everyone of racism, because for pages and pages now it has been one of the key reasons why so many people are glad the boats have stopped. Here's a link that addresses the point you raise above: https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php#queue Seems to me that Australia could issue more resettlement visas as a way to try to reduce the perceived need to travel here by boat. Planned settlement of refugees would have to be considerably more cost efficient that paying for offshore processing, not to mention be more consistent with the standards of other developed nations (i.e. accepting and resettling refugees rather than returning them to a transit country with a poor human rights record). I'm surprised this thread is still running - it's a re-hash of a subject that has been covered multiple times before, and the rhetoric remains the same (on both sides). I'm not accusing anyone of racism - I think in some people there is perhaps a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to accept as fact what appears in the media - but equally we are all entitled to our opinion. Personally, I see the stats indicating that the majority of asylum seekers are found to have genuine grounds, and wonder why a government would seek to demonise the oppressed; but most of all I still cannot reconcile Scott Morrison's maiden speech in parliament with his current behaviour, and equally I'm baffled as to how a PM who identifies himself as Christian can behave in a way that seems so at odds with my understanding of the aim of Christianity to follow the example of Jesus. (But bringing religion into any argument is probably not such a good idea, anyway...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's depressing how many people can be totally played by the media/politicians to believe what they want them to believe. We will never get better politicians until we expect more from them and get them to deal with real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 This is a real problem that is for sure. Although a lot better than previously. Im not against extra resettlement visas for people in the camps who have been waiting in the system. I think we need to keep the current offshore processing though ti continue the deterrent to the illegals. Otherwise the floodgates will just reopen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Why are you still trying to drag the conversation into this area, a thinly veiled attempt to brand people that are pleased to see positive action around the boats as racists and intolerant. It is absurd. Australia already has plenty of people from other nations living here and more arriving (legally) every day. But as there is a choice between offering resettlement to people through the official channels versus offering resettlement to queue jumpers who arrived by boat, then a large number of people prefer the former. Nothing I have read on this thread so far has yet convinced me that the queue jumper is more deserving or in need. I don't expect poorer countries hosting in some cases hundreds of thousands asylum seekers in countries like Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Guinea, Kenya, Pakistan, Thailand etc, quite see it like that. A rich nation as Australia with the largest pro capita intake of immigrants in the world, feeling they have the right although illegal to physically return asylum seekers by force. Of course if they done the same there would be no refugee program of any sort as those in danger would have no place to flee. On top of this governments reduction in numbers as well. Nobody is trying to convince anyone on here, or if are in for a very pointless exercise in extreme futility. That does not mean some of the assumptions being expressed on here by the same posters shouldn't be challenged and facts pointed out to the more liberal minded folk that may cross the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Here's a link that addresses the point you raise above: https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php#queue Seems to me that Australia could issue more resettlement visas as a way to try to reduce the perceived need to travel here by boat. Planned settlement of refugees would have to be considerably more cost efficient that paying for offshore processing, not to mention be more consistent with the standards of other developed nations (i.e. accepting and resettling refugees rather than returning them to a transit country with a poor human rights record). I'm surprised this thread is still running - it's a re-hash of a subject that has been covered multiple times before, and the rhetoric remains the same (on both sides). I'm not accusing anyone of racism - I think in some people there is perhaps a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to accept as fact what appears in the media - but equally we are all entitled to our opinion. Personally, I see the stats indicating that the majority of asylum seekers are found to have genuine grounds, and wonder why a government would seek to demonise the oppressed; but most of all I still cannot reconcile Scott Morrison's maiden speech in parliament with his current behaviour, and equally I'm baffled as to how a PM who identifies himself as Christian can behave in a way that seems so at odds with my understanding of the aim of Christianity to follow the example of Jesus. (But bringing religion into any argument is probably not such a good idea, anyway...) I agree akin to an old gramophone record stuck in a grove and playing the same mindless tune over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's depressing how many people can be totally played by the media/politicians to believe what they want them to believe. Totally agree. People should stop listening to the ABC and the Guardian. It's brain washing in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Actually I grew up with the daily telegraph and not a fan of the guardian at all. People should question what they read rather than blindly accepting it whether its the daily mail or guardian. Boats are such a non issue either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I agree first hand accounts usually tend to stack up as the best source of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Here's a link that addresses the point you raise above: https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/myth-long.php#queue Seems to me that Australia could issue more resettlement visas as a way to try to reduce the perceived need to travel here by boat. Planned settlement of refugees would have to be considerably more cost efficient that paying for offshore processing, not to mention be more consistent with the standards of other developed nations (i.e. accepting and resettling refugees rather than returning them to a transit country with a poor human rights record). I'm surprised this thread is still running - it's a re-hash of a subject that has been covered multiple times before, and the rhetoric remains the same (on both sides). I'm not accusing anyone of racism - I think in some people there is perhaps a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to accept as fact what appears in the media - but equally we are all entitled to our opinion. Personally, I see the stats indicating that the majority of asylum seekers are found to have genuine grounds, and wonder why a government would seek to demonise the oppressed; but most of all I still cannot reconcile Scott Morrison's maiden speech in parliament with his current behaviour, and equally I'm baffled as to how a PM who identifies himself as Christian can behave in a way that seems so at odds with my understanding of the aim of Christianity to follow the example of Jesus. (But bringing religion into any argument is probably not such a good idea, anyway...) Yes the link confirms my point about the numerical link between queue jumpers and those applying through the proper channels. It even confirms that this logic has a "basis in fact". Well it isnt just "basis in fact". It is fact. I guess the author just couldn't help but try to qualify the comement, perhaps they are biased do you think? Refugee Council of Australia? So I didn't learn anything new here, this is pretty basic stuff. What I want to know is why some on this thread would prefer to see queue jumpers being resettled than those that came through the proper channels. Can anybody answer that question? The evidence so far is no, nobody can justify this. You see that the evidence suggests that most asylum seekers are genuine. I see that it was hard to prove that they are not. Because of "lost" documentation and significant incentive for telling lies. Perhaps your own critical thinking is a bit lacking here. But genuine or not, I also still think you are just not understanding what people are saying. Australia takes a quota, nobody on this thread has suggested that we reduce this quota or stop taking altogether. So your comments about demonising the oppressed and Christianity etc are misplaced. This is about a fairer system and an end to queue jumping. ETA. I have now seen those of us pleased with the boat policy called ignorant and racist. To add to that you are now suggesting that we are not capable of critical-thinking (do you not think it is weird that only the clever people that agree with you are apparently capable of that) and that we are looking to "demonise the oppressed" (roll eyes). How about discussing the issue instead of resorting to insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Actually I grew up with the daily telegraph and not a fan of the guardian at all. People should question what they read rather than blindly accepting it whether its the daily mail or guardian. Boats are such a non issue either way Why don't you question what you read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Why don't you question what you read? I do or I would think boat people are a pressing issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I do or I would think boat people are a pressing issue... So a few thousand men, women and children drowning at sea is not a pressing issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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