Please stop this now

[pablo]

What like fishermen? Do they inflict deliberate cruelty? Every time you turn the tv on there is a fishing show, but because it fits in nicely with the Australian lifestyle the cruelty issue doesn't exist. I love all creatures to bits pardon the pun! but cant understand how people put more emphasis on certain creatures, how is canned hunting any different to fishing? I eat meat but do not want to know the process of how it arrived on my plate, i don't know what that makes me - no doubt a lot of people on here will tell me what they think of me and what they think i am. I agree these images are truly disgusting, but this happens all around us on a daily basis throughout the world, you just don't see it all the time.

IMO i think there is very little news out here and these story's and many others gets sensationalized to attract such emotions from people. The bottom line is not every culture has the time and money to invest in animal welfare!

Everything these days is governed by money and the greed of us all, and because we are top of the food chain, creatures suffer!

 

 

I could address loads of points in your post,but cba,im chilling out,but see the highlighted?

The culture in this case is Gaza,Gaza isn't full of cavemen with clubs now tho is it?

The animals were sent there with the australian gvnmt knowing they were going to be slaughtered,halal slaughter,now thats another subject,but,halal doesnt mean animals have to be dragged along the street by vehicles in front of baying crowds of hundreds of people,or get stabbed in the eyes,and kneecapped with assault rifles does it,or tortured,or does it?

 

So what has money got to do with this,and creatures DONT have to suffer like that,ridiculous!

[boganbear]

Whilst i agree that the treatment of these animals is terrible, i doubt there is anything that the government can do. banning exports will not achieve anything as these cruel people will just find a cow from elsewhere and carry on. Aussie companies cannot be held accountable for what happens in a foreign country after they have shipped the animals over. The responsibility rests with those carrying out such cruelty and the local authorities for enforcing the law. If they do not have anti cruelty laws then there is nothing illegal about what they are doing.

 

Remember that Gaza is not a properly functioning state and I doubt that those in power (Hamas) will actually do anything about it. Many people think that Halal and Kosher processes are cruel (myself included) but such slaughter processes were used in the Uk and Australia a generation or two ago. My mum's family ran a butchers where animals were slaughtered out the back in a very similar way. In some respects they were possibly more humane and 'natural' methods of meat processing than what we use today such as mechanically recovered meat - blasting carcasses with high pressure hoses to extract every last bit. no wonder we end up with BSE, Creutzfeld-Jacob disease and horse burgers. In Peru, they breed guinea pigs to eat not as pets.

 

Some of you may remember Blackie the Donkey in Spain from many years ago and The Sun 'saved' it. Well, it didn't stop the village from getting other donkeys and doing the same thing every year afterwards as you can see from this article

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1455596/Ill-sue-Spanish-for-donkey-cruelty-says-animal-lover.html

 

I agree that the treatment of these animals is wrong but you cannot get on your high horse about other culture's values or expect them to share ours

[pablo]

Whilst i agree that the treatment of these animals is terrible, i doubt there is anything that the government can do. banning exports will not achieve anything as these cruel people will just find a cow from elsewhere and carry on. Aussie companies cannot be held accountable for what happens in a foreign country after they have shipped the animals over. The responsibility rests with those carrying out such cruelty and the local authorities for enforcing the law. If they do not have anti cruelty laws then there is nothing illegal about what they are doing.

 

Remember that Gaza is not a properly functioning state and I doubt that those in power (Hamas) will actually do anything about it. Many people think that Halal and Kosher processes are cruel (myself included) but such slaughter processes were used in the Uk and Australia a generation or two ago. My mum's family ran a butchers where animals were slaughtered out the back in a very similar way. In some respects they were possibly more humane and 'natural' methods of meat processing than what we use today such as mechanically recovered meat - blasting carcasses with high pressure hoses to extract every last bit. no wonder we end up with BSE, Creutzfeld-Jacob disease and horse burgers. In Peru, they breed guinea pigs to eat not as pets.

 

Some of you may remember Blackie the Donkey in Spain from many years ago and The Sun 'saved' it. Well, it didn't stop the village from getting other donkeys and doing the same thing every year afterwards as you can see from this article

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1455596/Ill-sue-Spanish-for-donkey-cruelty-says-animal-lover.html

 

I agree that the treatment of these animals is wrong but you cannot get on your high horse about other culture's values or expect them to share ours

 

People are allowed to protest tho all the same,if people hadn't have protested in the past over wrongs, the world wouldn't have changed would it?so i dont think apathy helps

Its not people getting on their high horse at all,its just people being disgusted looking at terrified animals basically being tortured in front of baying crowds,torturing animals isnt a part of Islam as far as i know

[scary canary]

That's right Pablo you chill out and smoke a fat one! Money has to do with everything! If you cant work that out i totally misjudged you or maybe you just like randomely having a pop at people because their opinion differs from yours! Maybe As was said earlier if Australia stops exporting beef (money that Australia needs to keep cattle stations going) FYI this isn't the first incident is it? why did we start exporting again= MONEY! They will be bought elsewhere and could possibly be treated the same again. If you feel that strongly about it put down the rizzla get off the computer and do something about it! I was just giving mp opinion ok? I think a much better story would be if the cameraman put down the camera and tried to stop what he saw in front of his/her eyes! I agree with you Pablo it is very confronting and immoral but it will carry on, having a pop at me because of my opinion doesn't solve anything or help any creatures at all!

[pablo]

That's right Pablo you chill out and smoke a fat one! Money has to do with everything! If you cant work that out i totally misjudged you or maybe you just like randomely having a pop at people because their opinion differs from yours! Maybe As was said earlier if Australia stops exporting beef (money that Australia needs to keep cattle stations going) FYI this isn't the first incident is it? why did we start exporting again= MONEY! They will be bought elsewhere and could possibly be treated the same again. If you feel that strongly about it put down the rizzla get off the computer and do something about it! I was just giving mp opinion ok? I think a much better story would be if the cameraman put down the camera and tried to stop what he saw in front of his/her eyes! I agree with you Pablo it is very confronting and immoral but it will carry on, having a pop at me because of my opinion doesn't solve anything or help any creatures at all!

 

I was addressing your point about "not every country has the time and MONEY to invest in animal welfare"

 

A sharp knife doesnt cost that much does it,if they are going to be slaughtered the halal way,dragging them round the street,jumping on them,parading them,stabbing them,shooting them in the kneecaps has nothing to do with money does it,that was my point regarding money.

 

Of course money is the reason behind australia exporting them,but that wasn't what i was talking about

If there's enough outrage over the way they are treated then it "might" achieve something,outrage causes lobbyists to get involved,i think its all too easy to say if australia didn't send the cattle other countries would,because likely there would be the same outrage in those countries too?

Either way it shouldn't be allowed to carry on unchecked or without some protest to the likes of Hamas

So again,it was your assertion that lack of money led to them being tortured that i found ridiculous,because that seemed to be what you were saying? "that" is what i was having a pop at,not you as such,i was disagreeing,it's allowed,like you can with me

[scary canary]

I was addressing your point about "not every country has the time and MONEY to invest in animal welfare"

 

A sharp knife doesnt cost that much does it,if they are going to be slaughtered the halal way,dragging them round the street,jumping on them,parading them,stabbing them,shooting them in the kneecaps has nothing to do with money does it,that was my point regarding money.

 

Of course money is the reason behind australia exporting them,but that wasn't what i was talking about

If there's enough outrage over the way they are treated then it "might" achieve something,outrage causes lobbyists to get involved,i think its all too easy to say if australia didn't send the cattle other countries would,because likely there would be the same outrage in those countries too?

Either way it shouldn't be allowed to carry on unchecked or without some protest to the likes of Hamas

So again,it was your assertion that lack of money led to them being tortured that i found ridiculous,because that seemed to be what you were saying? "that" is what i was having a pop at,not you as such,i was disagreeing,it's allowed,like you can with me

 

 

Pablo i don't want to fight with you mate especially this time of year, good will to all men and that! The money aspect i was talking about was mechanisms, and agencies that are in our respected country's to deal with the welfare of animals and how they are slaughtered and that costs money! Also yes you are right sharp knives don't cost much in our respected countries, but that country I'm not so sure, don't think they have Aldi & Lidel on every street corner like we have and IMO i don't think they much care whether the Knives are sharp to make the whole process quick and clean! Its just are western ideas that we seem to impose on every other nation for centuries that this sort of issue should be a concern for them when they have lots of other problems!

I am with you Pablo i saw the story on the news and had to turn it off, it disgusts me to the core and i would kick off big time with no regard for my safety if i were there seeing this!

We seem to both be very passionate about this and we might both have valid points, my comment about money was taken very literally by you! Pablo by all means disagree with me but to highlight my text in red just tells me you are trying to prove your comment is far more valid than mine, and animal welfare had dropped off our radar because we are jousting with words rather than getting off our backsides and do something about it!

[pablo]

Pablo i don't want to fight with you mate especially this time of year, good will to all men and that! The money aspect i was talking about was mechanisms, and agencies that are in our respected country's to deal with the welfare of animals and how they are slaughtered and that costs money! Also yes you are right sharp knives don't cost much in our respected countries, but that country I'm not so sure, don't think they have Aldi & Lidel on every street corner like we have and IMO i don't think they much care whether the Knives are sharp to make the whole process quick and clean! Its just are western ideas that we seem to impose on every other nation for centuries that this sort of issue should be a concern for them when they have lots of other problems!

I am with you Pablo i saw the story on the news and had to turn it off, it disgusts me to the core and i would kick off big time with no regard for my safety if i were there seeing this!

We seem to both be very passionate about this and we might both have valid points, my comment about money was taken very literally by you! Pablo by all means disagree with me but to highlight my text in red just tells me you are trying to prove your comment is far more valid than mine, and animal welfare had dropped off our radar because we are jousting with words rather than getting off our backsides and do something about it!

 

I'm not "fighting" canary,merely disagreeing,im not suggesting the RSPCA could set up camp in Gaza,just that if there was more protests from MP's,gvnmt's etc it might at least help educate the people that there's more humane ways to treat animals,even though the end result is the same.

 

I'm well aware of the patronising nature of imposing western sensibilities on other cultures,but nowhere in Islam says animals should be treated like that afaik?

The point im making is just saying "well if we didn't send the animals there someone else will",is a bit defeatist isnt it.

I highlighted your text because it was easier than typing it out again to emphasise which part of your post i disagreed with the most,it was easier than typing,i'd had a smoke and drink=highlight=easier

No other reason for highlighting what i did,i still disagree with your stance tho fwiw,australia "should" stop exporting cattle there,and any other country that exports there should as well

[Skani]

Its just are western ideas that we seem to impose on every other nation for centuries that this sort of issue should be a concern for them when they have lots of other problems!

 

 

These occurrences aren't documented because some western 'greenies' with nothing better to do happen to be loitering around with a camera (as seems to be implied in earlier posts).

 

They are documented because citizens in those countries are horrified by what they see and report it...because they know it is not acceptable...by their, or any human's, standards.

[Gbye grey sky]

I can't believe what I've just read.

 

 

 

 

 

Let's face it...you are going to die anyway...eventually.

So shall we let you die as pain free as possible? Or shall we knee cap with multiple gunshots until you can no longer stand?

Or slash your throat 102 times before you die?

 

 

Animals feel excruciating pain, just like humans.

So why is it acceptable for them to be tortured and not you?

 

 

As for the he "economic" argument: Australia had a multi million dollar beef industry before live exports. Along with wheat and sheep it was always one of the big 3 of Australian agriculture.

 

 

The "economic" argument was used by the proponents of slavery in the US and West Indies, it was used by British slave traders and employers using children in factories and mines. Just because something makes money doesn't make it acceptable in a civilised society. We look back in horror at the live export of slaves in appalling conditions...often to a horrendous end. Future generations will look back with equal horror and wonder how we could have sanctioned the similar treatment of animals.

 

 

Farmers in Australia regularly have to kill livestock because of drought, floods and bushfires. They do it as quickly as possible with a single well aimed shot. They don't engage in the slow, agonising torture routinely suffered by Australian livestock sent overseas.

 

'Like' is an understatement for this post. Encapsulated the whole argument perfectly.

[Guest Guest66881]

How anyone on here can dismiss the actions of the vile and disgusting actions shown in the video is beyond me, animals are suffering needlessly and you really need a wake up pill or better still a put down pill.

[mickyb]

[/color]

 

People are allowed to protest tho all the same,if people hadn't have protested in the past over wrongs, the world wouldn't have changed would it?so i dont think apathy helps

Its not people getting on their high horse at all,its just people being disgusted looking at terrified animals basically being tortured in front of baying crowds,torturing animals isnt a part of Islam as far as i know

I was listening radio 4 yesterday and an article on angora fur . Sick videos led to public protests and campaigns which led to companies dropping their suppliers . There's another one on the go about the treatment of Marino wool sheep in the production of ugg boots . It's a good job these greenies are getting in and raising awareness . A shame though it's left to public campaigns and not more stringent checks and a better moral code of the the companies involved .

[Guest Guest66881]

Skinning of a live animal nailed to a post for some 'human' to tramp about wearing it is sick, kicking and stabbing an animal for 'fun' but under the disguise of being a religious act is sick, toleration by a modern 'society' is sickening, the turning of the cheek is sickening, governments hide behind the excuses of job losses if not sold abroad, sickening.

[Paul1Perth]

It beggars belief, some people's 'views' on here. No matter how you look at it, CRUELTY IS CRUELTY-END!!!! If if wasn't for these brave people going undercover and exposing this, how the hell will things ever change????

 

Things don't need to change though buttercup. Just because a lot of people think it's wrong and they are very vocal and a loud lobby doesn't always mean they are going to get their own way. There were probably just as many people protesting for it as against it recently in Fremantle.

[Paul1Perth]

I can't believe what I've just read.

 

 

 

 

 

Let's face it...you are going to die anyway...eventually.

So shall we let you die as pain free as possible? Or shall we knee cap with multiple gunshots until you can no longer stand?

Or slash your throat 102 times before you die?

 

 

Animals feel excruciating pain, just like humans.

So why is it acceptable for them to be tortured and not you?

 

 

As for the he "economic" argument: Australia had a multi million dollar beef industry before live exports. Along with wheat and sheep it was always one of the big 3 of Australian agriculture.

 

 

The "economic" argument was used by the proponents of slavery in the US and West Indies, it was used by British slave traders and employers using children in factories and mines. Just because something makes money doesn't make it acceptable in a civilised society. We look back in horror at the live export of slaves in appalling conditions...often to a horrendous end. Future generations will look back with equal horror and wonder how we could have sanctioned the similar treatment of animals.

 

 

Farmers in Australia regularly have to kill livestock because of drought, floods and bushfires. They do it as quickly as possible with a single well aimed shot. They don't engage in the slow, agonising torture routinely suffered by Australian livestock sent overseas.

 

Yep I am going to die eventually Skani. Of natural causes I hope. The animals we are talking about though are born and bred for slaughter, that's their one and only reason for existence.

 

Bringing slave trading into this post is way off the mark.

[Paul1Perth]

I was listening radio 4 yesterday and an article on angora fur . Sick videos led to public protests and campaigns which led to companies dropping their suppliers . There's another one on the go about the treatment of Marino wool sheep in the production of ugg boots . It's a good job these greenies are getting in and raising awareness . A shame though it's left to public campaigns and not more stringent checks and a better moral code of the the companies involved .

 

Wonder what happened to the "greenies" who broke into a breeding centre for mink (I think it was) and let them all out thinking they'd done a good job. Only for the poor buggers to get killed by cats and other local wildlife. The mink had never lived outside the shed and had no idea how to survive in the wild.

 

No that I'm for breeding animals for making fur coats or anything, I'm totally against that, but the nutcases who thought it would be a good idea to "free" them need a bit of a reality check too.

[Pommyaussie]

Every sane person I know who eats meat does so hoping those animals are slaughtered as humanly and quickly as possible so as not to suffer any unnecessary pain and any person, country or religion who does otherwise is sick.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for making any animal suffer and if there was the difference of paying a few more pounds / dollars or seeing these animals to be mistreated, the majority of people would pay more to make sure the animals were treated with respect.

 

And anyone who thinks it's OK to turn a blind eye just because the animals would die anyway is as bad as the perpetrators themselves.

[Paul1Perth]

Every sane person I know who eats meat does so hoping those animals are slaughtered as humanly and quickly as possible so as not to suffer any unnecessary pain and any person, country or religion who does otherwise is sick.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for making any animal suffer and if there was the difference of paying a few more pounds / dollars or seeing these animals to be mistreated, the majority of people would pay more to make sure the animals were treated with respect.

 

And anyone who thinks it's OK to turn a blind eye just because the animals would die anyway is as bad as the perpetrators themselves.

 

I reckon most people who eat meat don't even give a thought to how the animal has been raised and killed. All they know is they like meat and it's on their plate. I am in no way condoning what the people did in mistreating the animals before they killed them but wouldn't be in favour of stopping the live trade just because it might happen.

 

It's a business transaction and I don't think there is an awful lot the farmers and shippers can do about it once the deal has been made.

[flag of convenience]

The religion of peace shows once more why it desperately needs rebranding

 

I don't recall the clubbing to death of seals in their thousands, a pursuit of the religion of peace as you phrase it. No one culture should attempt to take the high ground and point the finger at others....

[Pommyaussie]

I reckon most people who eat meat don't even give a thought to how the animal has been raised and killed. All they know is they like meat and it's on their plate. I am in no way condoning what the people did in mistreating the animals before they killed them but wouldn't be in favour of stopping the live trade just because it might happen.

 

It's a business transaction and I don't think there is an awful lot the farmers and shippers can do about it once the deal has been made.

I agree most people don't give too much thought as to how the meat got on their table and that's because the largest majority expect it's been raised and killed humanely especially given the laws protecting all animals. However when it comes to light that animals have been exported and mistreated, the very same people do as much as they can to see this does not reoccur.

 

When we make a "business transaction" with anyone we should clearly state what that transaction entails and if this is ignored the transaction should stop and a more suitable business partner found. Furthermore the business that renegaded on the agreement should be heavily find.

 

To ignore cruelty to animals just because it's a business transaction is as cruel as the morons who caused the pain and suffering and there is no excuse for apathy.

[flag of convenience]

Females there get better or equal treatment than most of the other countries in the world which the press doesn't concentrate on.And definitely animals are treated better than most of the countries in the world.

 

It is not unheard (far from it)of to hear voiced in the East, comments that infer animals are treated with more respect than the aged in The West and preferred to than kids. The West does love to take the high moral ground all to frequently.

[mickyb]

I don't recall the clubbing to death of seals in their thousands, a pursuit of the religion of peace as you phrase it. No one culture should attempt to take the high ground and point the finger at others....

And if they were clubbing seals to death in the name of the religion of peace , I'd say change your name seal clubbers . But they're not . So that's irrelevant really . I would call them sick bastards though . We have an annual ' religious ' slaughter of turkey's , but if I saw the congregation pouring out after mass smashing turkey's heads on gravestones and kicking and stabbing them I'd say what would JC do you sick bastards .

[mickyb]

Wonder what happened to the "greenies" who broke into a breeding centre for mink (I think it was) and let them all out thinking they'd done a good job. Only for the poor buggers to get killed by cats and other local wildlife. The mink had never lived outside the shed and had no idea how to survive in the wild.

 

No that I'm for breeding animals for making fur coats or anything, I'm totally against that, but the nutcases who thought it would be a good idea to "free" them need a bit of a reality check too.

thought that was the ALF F-wits . An incredibly stupid thing to do showing they had little knowledge or real concern about what they were doing .the same kind of people who dig up dead grandmothers

[Paul1Perth]

thought that was the ALF F-wits . An incredibly stupid thing to do showing they had little knowledge or real concern about what they were doing .the same kind of people who dig up dead grandmothers

 

I was at Uni doing an engineering degree, my Dad was a miner out on strike. I was an ex miner who'd gone back to Uni at 30. The student Union decided that we would go out on strike to support the miners. It was going to hurt nobody but me and I thought I'm going in. Had to pass through upper class twits carrying banners, shouting at me that I was a strike breaker, probably never seen a pit and definitely wouldn't want to work down one. I put some of the greenies, Animal Defence League and people who seem to want kill an industry in Aus stone dead, with no thought for the herds of cattle here and the people it might affect in the same barrel.

[mickyb]

We had an ALF hippy family gang move in on the corner when we were teenagers . They'd go on lab raids and come back with upto thirty white rabbits . They'd drink , smoke and pass out . Then me and my brother would steal the rabbits , skin them and sell them down the pub . They also stole greyhounds and collies . Then leave them roaming the streets till they had pups , lock them in the house and piss off to wales for 5 days magic mushroom picking .

[dxboz]

mickyb Not funny or appropriate