Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 This idea was muted on sky news last night and I just wondered what people thought. Drinking is out of control these days and something needs to be done and if it makes the drunks pay for it, then I'm all for it myself. Privately-run "drunk tanks" should be considered to tackle alcohol-fuelled disorder, police chiefs have said. Under the idea, drunks who are a danger to themselves would be put in cells to sober up and then pay for their care. The Association of Chief Police Officers, which is launching a campaign on alcohol harm to coincide with university freshers' season, said problem drinking was on the increase. The Police Federation said the plan was "neither a viable nor long-term" fix. This proposal throws up far more questions than answers, particularly with regards to accountability” Steve White, Police Federation of England and Wales Northamptonshire Chief Constable Adrian Lee, who leads on the issue of problem drinking for Acpo in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, told the BBC that police cells were not the best places for people who had got so drunk they were "incapable of looking after themselves". Nor should the taxpayer have to pick up the bill for people's drunkenness, he said. "Why don't we take them to a drunk cell owned by a commercial company and get the commercial company to look after them during the night until they are sober? "When that is over, we will issue them with a fixed penalty and the company will be able to charge them for their care, which would be at quite significant cost and that might be a significant deterrent." 'Sticking plaster' Humberside Police and Crime Commissioner Matthew Grove also recently raised the idea of introducing drunk tanks. "Public services are a finite resource and we need to appreciate that," he said in an interview with the trade journal Police Professional. An Acpo spokeswoman said the measure would only apply to those drunks who were a danger to themselves - those who had committed a crime would be taken to a police cell, while those who were ill would be taken to hospital. Dominic Casciani, Home affairs correspondent Every Saturday night, police mop up drunken behaviour and dump people on paramedics and hospitals - all at huge cost. But once the police leave the scene, there's nothing to stop anyone walking away, assuming of course they're actually capable of doing so. So while the idea of a place where alcopop-fuelled drunkards could crash out and wake up to a bill for enforced bed-and-breakfast looks compelling, it's just not clear how it could work in practice and in law. Police only have limited powers to detain you - and your time in custody must be necessary and the reasons for it clear. So where exactly, in legal terms, would people be held and under what power? Clever lawyers could argue that time spent sobering up in a drunk tank amounted to false imprisonment and that would give the police a headache as bad as the detainee's hangover. The police could not walk away from a drunk who was unable to stand as they had a duty of care but it was not the best use of police resources. As there is currently no formal proposal, Acpo did not have any details on cost or implementation. Steve White, vice-chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, which represents officers, said he would favour "any measure that frees up police officer time and gets them back on to the streets". But he said: "This proposal throws up far more questions than answers, particularly with regards to accountability. "Privately-operated drunk tanks are neither a viable nor long-term solution to binge drinking and merely represent a sticking plaster for the problem." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 250 quid fines payble in 7 days or jail. Drunkenness, violence and vandalism in the UK is disgusting and one of the things I don't miss. I'm surprised that the revenue obsessed councils haven't done more to fie people when they clobber the poor motorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 250 quid fines payble in 7 days or jail. Drunkenness, violence and vandalism in the UK is disgusting and one of the things I don't miss. I'm surprised that the revenue obsessed councils haven't done more to fie people when they clobber the poor motorists. I know what you mean, it's beyond a joke TBH, I think something radical needs to be done, youngsters these days have loads of cheap alcohol before they even go out, bought at 2 for 1 prices at the Supermarkets and then they top it up at the pubs and clubs, until they are paralytic drunk and they are then left to the police and NHS services to look after them, WHY? Make them pay for their drunken anti social behaviour, it will make them think twice about doing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 But what about the sensible drinkers who do not run around half naked punching each other at the weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I wouldn't want to meet an M1A1 if the driver had had too much to drink.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 But what about the sensible drinkers who do not run around half naked punching each other at the weekend? This is such a good point. How many times do we hear that booze is going to go up to combat drunken behaviour. Well Ive reached my age having got considerably drunk on many occasions, yet not once have I caused one iota of trouble. I honestly think if your a violent drunk then you are a violent person deep down and you are just using it as an excuse. Lock em up and charge them and make them do community service clearing up the vomit, urine and blood from town centres ( preferably the following morning :wink:) ( Evil Laugh! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 But what about the sensible drinkers who do not run around half naked punching each other at the weekend? I have read this several times mate and I haven't got a clue what you mean, if they are sensible drinkers, just how will this effect them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 HOFF RU takin the plss ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 This is such a good point. How many times do we hear that booze is going to go up to combat drunken behaviour. Well Ive reached my age having got considerably drunk on many occasions, yet not once have I caused one iota of trouble. I honestly think if your a violent drunk then you are a violent person deep down and you are just using it as an excuse. Lock em up and charge them and make them do community service clearing up the vomit, urine and blood from town centres ( preferably the following morning :wink:) ( Evil Laugh! ) I totally agree, I think it's the angry idiots who want to cause trouble, whether they are drunk or sober. I have never felt like I wanted to fight when I was drunk, more like curl up somewhere and go to sleep. I like the bit about them having to clean the sick and urine up the next morning, that would be great IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 HOFF RU takin the plss ...... Urine mate, taking the Urine, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I should have gone t specsavers after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I should have gone t specsavers after all I'd have you in the drunk tank for sure, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Just more privatisation is all,why cant the police/gvnmt fine them the same amount as the "private company"? Jailing someone for being D+D isnt going to work,the jails are full as it is,too many cons to this idea,how much legal power will the private companies have for instance,cant be the same as the police can it?who's responsibility is it if theres a death,the police for putting them in the companies care,or the company for negligence,too complicated for me,could be all kinds of dubious scenarios Just fine them more and leave the system the way it is,i have no faith in the likes of G4S personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Just more privatisation is all,why cant the police/gvnmt fine them the same amount as the "private company"?Jailing someone for being D+D isnt going to work,the jails are full as it is,too many cons to this idea,how much legal power will the private companies have for instance,cant be the same as the police can it?who's responsibility is it if theres a death,the police for putting them in the companies care,or the company for negligence,too complicated for me,could be all kinds of dubious scenarios Just fine them more and leave the system the way it is,i have no faith in the likes of G4S personally You make a good counter argument there pablo. I don't really have the answer to that, all I know is this Tory government are no different from the other ones, they want to privatise everything, so expanding the police to cover it, won't be an option. It is full of holes, but the situation has got out of control and every major city and town up and down the UK is in chaos, with drunken brawls and anti social behaviour. I would like to see it trialled somewhere and I am sure some private company, other than G4S could trial it. Talking about privatisation, it's just been announced that the Probation service has been put up for privatisation and I can tell you this from working in Offender Management, cutting costs and corners in this area, is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 You make a good counter argument there pablo. I don't really have the answer to that, all I know is this Tory government are no different from the other ones, they want to privatise everything, so expanding the police to cover it, won't be an option. It is full of holes, but the situation has got out of control and every major city and town up and down the UK is in chaos, with drunken brawls and anti social behaviour. I would like to see it trialled somewhere and I am sure some private company, other than G4S could trial it. Talking about privatisation, it's just been announced that the Probation service has been put up for privatisation and I can tell you this from working in Offender Management, cutting costs and corners in this area, is a recipe for disaster. It could be the thin end of the wedge jim,what next,will other "less serious" offenders be dealt with by these private companies? Shoplifters,burglars etc?,i just think it could lead to an expansion of private security companies roles,from holding to arresting,if that "did" happen,who is to say these companies wouldnt go around arresting people just for financial gain It might seem far fetched,but like i say,it wouldnt shock me,im not sure things are any worse now than yrs ago re drunken behaviour tbh jim,ive seen no stats,cba looking either atm,like i say tho,all these official/legal duties going to tender and privatisation isnt something im in favour of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 It's just a way to get money it's not gonna stop people from being drunk and disorderly. Every time that person drinks they will always think something bad is a good idea... The same people that say they will only have a few but get drunk and then when drunk making stupid decisions. So not really going to help someone stop drinking like i said just a way to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pob Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I was speaking to the pensioner who lived in the flat above me and he was talking about the youth of today. How their drinking and drug taking is out of control, how violent they are. I asked him how he knew about this and he told me it was in the newspapers and the television. I then asked him if it was safer when he was a kid and he said yes. I then asked him if he remembers the "teddy boys" with their flick knives and wasn't Brighton and Margate scenes of rioting and violence with Mods vs Rockers? He remembered and I asked him has it changed any really? Aren't the youth just doing what they have always done? Gone out had a good time maybe sometimes over do it a little? Maybe it's all blown up a bit too much to sell newspapers and make tv programmes. They never had reality tv when old George was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pob Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 So maybe privatising everything for the sake of a few pennies, isn't going to help people. Maybe education, maybe looking at society and working out why people need to escape from their daily norms in such a drastic way. Maybe a person needs to drink to much to learn what their limits are? Maybe a person is ill and needs help with alcoholism? Private nurses on minimum wage might not be the best people to make decisions on peoples health? Will the police get a kick back for every detainee? Anyone remember that judge in America who's wife had shares in the local prison company that owned several local prisons and just gave out the most harsh sentences he could, so the prisons were full and his wife got a bigger paycheck and they both got free holidays at the company's expense. All it would take is somebody high up to get shares in the private company and get the need to clean up our streets of this drunken scourge that is fouling our streets. Show some people stumbling and vomiting and get it printed in the daily mail. Their money would soon pile up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danners Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 1) Fine bars for selling alcohol to drunk people. I can't stress this enough - in the same way supplying alcohol to minors is illegal, selling more booze to already drunk people should be too. 2) More tax on booze aimed at specifically at youngsters (alcopops etc). 3) For people that are D&D, give them a choice of a) hefty fine, or b) mandatory alcohol education classes. 4) repeat offenders: mandatory civic service (cleaning streets on a Sat/Sun morning) or, last resort, jail. If only I were PM of the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 The thing is, this idea is being muted because it's so out of control in the cities and towns with countless drunken youngsters causing chaos, which the police are struggling to control and the idea is, the police hand the drunken louts over to the private firms running these drunk tanks, who then process them, leaving the police to go back out and do their job. Sounds good to me, perfect ..... No' better than what is happening now? ...... Most Definately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pob Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 I thought healthcare was free in England? If people do it regularly then they will need help not a bill. What's next fines for drug overdoses? Fines for attempted suicides? Maybe fines for fat people? Or people with anorexia? Bulimia? Whilst we are at it lets fine people with aids and hepatitis, because most of them got that by their own bad luck. Maybe we should help people, stop thinking of a pound or dollar and do something about the society that we live in. We don't need private drunk tanks, we need a better society, one that makes us happy to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 We are talking about drunken lunatics causing mayhem, what's it got to do with the NHS and fat folk? Made me laugh though, cheers lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nats Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Working in a busy Emergency Dept on the weekend we see more drunken accidents, injuries and assaults than anything else...most of them coming to us via the watch house. Picked up by police on the beat, taking to the 'drunk-tank' to sober up until the police can't cope or the drunkard somehow 'acquires' injuries that need medical attention. From my point of view it doesn't work very well, just gives the ED dept more work. That said, I don't know how many are held at the watch house, maybe they are full & therefore they are keeping lots of drunks off the street & out of harms way, just infuriates me that we get 'dumped' a lot of unnecessary patients from the police. More cost involved, waste of resources etc now if the ED had a padded room to throw them in...let them vomit, urinate etc until their hearts content, let us get on with looking after the truly sick patients... I don't think there is a good solution to this problem. More education I suppose, discipline. I have been drunk numerous times, too many times to count.. like truly legless & vomiting (in my earlier years might I add) but not once have I ended up in an ED dept, police station, in a fight...nor have any of my friends for that matter. People who fight, damage property, assault others, are disorderly need more than somewhere to sober up, they deserve a record and due punishment. They are a minority, getting drunk & vomiting is not the same as being drunk & destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I like watching the Kings Cross A&E documentaries , one episode had nearly every cubicle taken up with abusive drunks. I spoke to my sister who works in A&E in North Wales after, and said I don't know how you put up with it. You all really are saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I like watching the Kings Cross A&E documentaries , one episode had nearly every cubicle taken up with abusive drunks. I spoke to my sister who works in A&E in North Wales after, and said I don't know how you put up with it. You all really are saints. Imagine banging em up in the drunk tanks instead, just how better this alone would be in A&E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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