Parley Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Do you have any qualms about the possible environmental consequences about the bits I've highlighted from your post, or does a strong mining sector over-ride this sort of stuff?. I ask the question as Abbot seems to be something of a climate-change sceptic and the fear of many will be that he'll allow big business to pretty much do as it pleases in order to cash in on the current resources boom. No because Tony Abbott's policy is about direct action, providing incentives for positive climate change initiatives. Hitting companies with a tax doesn't stop climate change at all, unless those companies change their emmissions, which I haven't heard they have because of the carbon tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Abbott out and on his bike this morning, while the 'dictator' cowers behind the door not even gone to church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 if stopping boat loads of migrants is going to save millions, i mean migrants who want to work and make lives for themselves, those migrants.... does that mean Australia will stop paying companies to pollute, like spending our tax dollars paying the diesel bills for the miners? these mining companies are known as some of the richest companies in the country. why do they need handouts? Australia is one of the last countries doing it...... pretty sick with the new government binning the carbon tax, it's a step in the wrong direction IMHO. an excerpt from http://paidtopollute.org.au/ptp-fossil-fuel-subsidies [h=3]1. Paying the fuel bill for big mining companies – around $2 billion a year[/h]The average Australian pays 38 cents of tax per litre of fuel. But big mining companies operating in Australia pay just 6c a litre. Instead of paying their fair share, they get a massive tax refund costing the Australian taxpayer around $2 billion a year1. [h=3]2. Handouts to Australia’s dirtiest power stations - $4 billion over the next four years[/h]Around $1 billion worth of free permits a year is set to be divided among nine of Australia’s dirtiest coal-fired power stations for each of the next four years. It’s meant to be ‘compensation’ for the impact of the carbon price, but instead it’s encouraging these big polluters to keep polluting2. [h=3]3. Special tax treatment for big oil, coal and gas projects – more than $2 billion over the next four years[/h]The coal, oil and gas sectors get special treatment under Australia’s tax system allowing them to depreciate their assets like drilling rigs and pipelines over a much shorter period than they are actually in use. Detailed analysis by the Australian Conservation Foundation found that this legal tax dodge for big oil, gas and coal projects is costing the rest of us billions, and it’s growing 3. Thanks to this campaign, the Federal Government reduced this loophole at the budget in May 2013, saving Australian taxpayers $1.1 billion over the next four years. But there is still over $2 billion being lost to big polluters every year. [h=3]4. Subsiding cheaper fuel for airlines - $3.8 billion over four years[/h]Australian taxpayers are funding cheap fuel for big airline companies like Qantas and Virgin. If these companies paid their own way it would literally save us billions4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I voted for the first time in Australia and found the entire election and voting experience a complete farce. .... Got to say it's a very strange system open, as far as I can see, to huge abuses. You don't have any specific polling station you have to vote at so can vote anywhere. When you get there, you don't have to show any ID to prove you are who you say you are. You get your name ticked off in some huge telephone directory, of which each "receiver" at the polling station has a copy, and the only way they know if you have voted before in this election is by asking you. So how comes in this day and age the tick-off directory isn't online, linked with each of the polling stations, so that it is updated live when you are checked off? What's to stop someone voting several times at several different places, just lying each time about whether they've voted before, and by the time that's found out, there is absolutely no way of finding all the excess voting papers you've filled out? What's to stop someone giving the wrong name? Or voting on behalf of someone else of the same sex? The only identity mark on the voting slips is a squiggle in the corner to show it's been given out - no numbering or anything like that. Seems a very very strange system to me, open to huge abuse, and basically not worth the paper it's written on! I was watching Blackadder last night and in an electorate with one voter, there were 16,000 votes cast (for Baldrick - I'd have voted for him if he'd stood in this election!!) - sounds a similar system to the Australian one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 It is true what you say. I agree it is open to abuse if you are of a mind to do it. Whether it would make a difference statistically, I'm not sure. But yes you could vote multiple times in your electorate and they couldn't do much about it, other than prosecute you later if they catch you. I agree they should really move to a computerised system. Or perhaps we could all dip our finger in a pot of ink, like they do in the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 It is true what you say. I agree it is open to abuse if you are of a mind to do it.Whether it would make a difference statistically, I'm not sure. But yes you could vote multiple times in your electorate and they couldn't do much about it, other than prosecute you later if they catch you. I agree they should really move to a computerised system. Or perhaps we could all dip our finger in a pot of ink, like they do in the middle east. Even if they just made it so you could only vote at a nominated centre, and they had one person checking off your name - after you've shown ID - on a single list at the door, it would be better than how they do it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 How can Abbott possibly stop the boats anyway? Short of making the countries they come from rich and politically stable. It's a lowbrow argument aimed at less educated folks. Not sure why a poster is popping the champers at the news, unless you use 0 public services and don't mind Australia infrastructure lagging and not fussed about decent internet. To be fair to Abbott though, he's in great shape for an old guy, i'll give him that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 It'll be easy to convert to a computerised system for checking voters once we have the NBN. Oh, hang on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibbs Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 unless you use 0 public services and don't mind Australia infrastructure lagging and not fussed about decent internet. Or if you run a business and will pay less in tax. I'm in IT and don't expect the taxpayer to subsidise my Internet. Local infrastructure plans will also assist me. Cuts to mining/carbon taxes will assist my clients. Labor seemed to want to tax me and my business more, for a lot of stuff I wouldn't use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 On the entire discussion of the carbon tax about 99 people out of 100 are discussing what it costs and completely ignoring why we're worried about CO2 in the atmosphere. Sorry, but I do NOT want to hand my children a planet dying due to global warming and, at the risk of insulting a lot of people, anyone who is more worried about a few dollars in the wallet rather than the whole future of the world is incredibly selfish. Personally, I'd like the carbon tax even more if the revenues were ring fenced for investment into renewable energy--Australia is the perfect place for thermal solar generation yet we're lagging behind even places like Spain and Germany. It makes Gina Rinehart happy though (or should I say less angry--she won't be happy until Aussie miners are paid $2. a day like in Africa. A lot of the pro Abbott posts go on about not wanting to subsidise layabouts and so on. Well I turn that around--very few people abuse the system other than the better off who'd rather pocket more cash than look after the least well off in society. That's called selfishness. Funny how Abbott makes big play of being a Christian yet is happy to help the rich and ignore the poor. I'm an atheist yet I have more of a social conscience than that so-called Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Or if you run a business and will pay less in tax. I'm in IT and don't expect the taxpayer to subsidise my Internet. Local infrastructure plans will also assist me. Cuts to mining/carbon taxes will assist my clients. Labor seemed to want to tax me and my business more, for a lot of stuff I wouldn't use. Oh i agree I would probably vote Liberal if i'm a small business owner, but i'm not and most aren't. You do realise the coalition is building the NBN anyway, so not totally sure I get that point. The difference in cost being 14 billion dollars which is less than 1 percent of GDP so hardly even a noteworthy saving compared to the difference in quality which will last a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 How can Abbott possibly stop the boats anyway? Short of making the countries they come from rich and politically stable. It's a lowbrow argument aimed at less educated folks. Not sure why a poster is popping the champers at the news, unless you use 0 public services and don't mind Australia infrastructure lagging and not fussed about decent internet. To be fair to Abbott though, he's in great shape for an old guy, i'll give him that Populist sound bites to date. As for the boats the way he'll stop them is by not announcing any further arrivals. Non disclosure of information that will remove the matter from the headlines. The costs involved around the bribes and upkeep of detention centres in Manus Island and Nauru will probably not be disclosed either. As for his other policies of cutting the mining tax and carbon costs neither will likely get through The Senate before July next year at the earliest, when the Red/Green ends. He was in better shape than Rudd, who was never the sportsman anyway. Doesn't have to do with his new role though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Oh i agree I would probably vote Liberal if i'm a small business owner, but i'm not and most aren't. You do realise the coalition is building the NBN anyway, so not totally sure I get that point. The difference in cost being 14 billion dollars which is less than 10 percent of GDP so hardly even a noteworthy saving compared to the difference in quality which will last a very long time. And do YOU realise that the technology the LNP want to use for their version of the NBN has already been tried in both the UK and New Zealand and declared a mistake. Both those countries are now rolling out Fibre to the Home solutions just like the proper NBN. The LNP plans are to do with ideology, not technology and will turn out to be a massive waste of money when their system has to be replaced in a few years. Oh, and it worth considering how far behind Australia is compared to the UK and NZ since they rolled out their FTTN systems some years back before rejecting it for something better. Telstra hasn't invested squat in new technology. That's the private sector for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 On the entire discussion of the carbon tax about 99 people out of 100 are discussing what it costs and completely ignoring why we're worried about CO2 in the atmosphere. Sorry, but I do NOT want to hand my children a planet dying due to global warming and, at the risk of insulting a lot of people, anyone who is more worried about a few dollars in the wallet rather than the whole future of the world is incredibly selfish. Personally, I'd like the carbon tax even more if the revenues were ring fenced for investment into renewable energy--Australia is the perfect place for thermal solar generation yet we're lagging behind even places like Spain and Germany. It makes Gina Rinehart happy though (or should I say less angry--she won't be happy until Aussie miners are paid $2. a day like in Africa. A lot of the pro Abbott posts go on about not wanting to subsidise layabouts and so on. Well I turn that around--very few people abuse the system other than the better off who'd rather pocket more cash than look after the least well off in society. That's called selfishness. Funny how Abbott makes big play of being a Christian yet is happy to help the rich and ignore the poor. I'm an atheist yet I have more of a social conscience than that so-called Christian. Actually the Cons are more into giving out Middle Class welfare as was the case in the last term of the Howard government. The spending boom jacked up the interest rates (by 3%) as most the welfare was pissed up against the wall, if the truth be told. Baby bonus and the like indeed. Little appears to have changed. A handful of multinationals will continue to profit enormously while the benefits are felt by a minority. Short termism all what this country seems to be about these days will hardly leave any lasting legacy. Mineral and energy resources are finite it has been said that a child born in 2011 will at retirement witness the iron ore supplies will be exhausted. Abbott has stated he wants to crank up production of resources again. At just what cost and allowing multi nationals greater influence may well prove counter productive to longer term interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 And do YOU realise that the technology the LNP want to use for their version of the NBN has already been tried in both the UK and New Zealand and declared a mistake. Both those countries are now rolling out Fibre to the Home solutions just like the proper NBN. The LNP plans are to do with ideology, not technology and will turn out to be a massive waste of money when their system has to be replaced in a few years. Oh, and it worth considering how far behind Australia is compared to the UK and NZ since they rolled out their FTTN systems some years back before rejecting it for something better. Telstra hasn't invested squat in new technology. That's the private sector for you. BT, the rail system, water companies and more are the same in the uk. Lag behind as long as you can, that way the complaints will get as far as parliament. then you can go cap in hand to them for handouts. that way the shareholders get more money. its the standard for a government industry that is privatised. shameful, but standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
familywright Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 How can Abbott possibly stop the boats anyway? Short of making the countries they come from rich and politically stable. It's a lowbrow argument aimed at less educated folks. Not sure why a poster is popping the champers at the news, unless you use 0 public services and don't mind Australia infrastructure lagging and not fussed about decent internet. To be fair to Abbott though, he's in great shape for an old guy, i'll give him that he is only 55! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Anyone on a 457 will be happy...! Watch him break the unions.. England number 2 coming up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Great news, not a fan of Abbott whatsoever but anything has got to be better than Labour, or Labor as they insist on spelling it over here...hopefully Turnbull taps him on the shoulder before he stuffs up anything too badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Anyone on a 457 will be happy...! Watch him break the unions.. England number 2 coming up He broke the unions in England??:shocked: Cheers, Bobj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain maracas Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Tony Abbott: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1977 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 He broke the unions in England??:shocked: Cheers, Bobj. what do you think smart arse.. He anti unions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 he is only 55! When your eighteen that seems the Dark Ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Great news, not a fan of Abbott whatsoever but anything has got to be better than Labour, or Labor as they insist on spelling it over here...hopefully Turnbull taps him on the shoulder before he stuffs up anything too badly How about looking at policy before the man? Why must his party be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Anyone on a 457 will be happy...! Watch him break the unions.. England number 2 coming up While they themselves in instances will be treated as serfs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Personally, I think politics has been reduced to a popularity contest, with the two biggest parties choosing their policies according to focus groups and vested interests. In all of this, the idea of parties stating their values and principles and allowing the people to decide has been lost, with it now coming down to soundbites and promises. MPs don't get to vote according to the will of the people they are paid to represent, rather they are governed by the 'party line', so as far as I can see democracy as it was originally intended has been dead for a good while. And people wonder why there is so much voter apathy - it's called 'disenchantment'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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