Anyone been to South Africa?

[Petals]

Not now, just have to look at how many South Africans are leaving and coming to live in Aus. Way too dangerous. Such a shame because its a beautiful place and country and love the climate etc.

[Guest51810]

After reading all this I can't understand why that woman from here moved, Scotland's not that bad lol

[nikki244]

After reading all this I can't understand why that woman from here moved, Scotland's not that bad lol

 

Yeah it's a shame. South Africa really is a lovely place, and I know that dh would be back there in a second if it was safe. Fortunately for us, Oz and NZ provide us with a similar lifestyle in terms of sailing, fishing etc and so we have no complaints...

[CarolineD82]

I went to SA on my honeymoon in 2009 & had the most amazing time! We had no trouble what so ever (but stayed well away from j'burg), maybe we were just lucky, but we felt safe enough. We travelled the south-the garden route, followed by a few nights in Cape Town. Then we went up to Kruger national park for safari time for another few nights. I can't wait to go back someday. But the rich-poor divide is unbelievable. I've never seen it so in your face. So as for living there...I don't think I could. x

[nikki244]

Dh left South Africa about 15 years ago now, and since then two thirds of his extended family have also left, and all of his immediate family (parents and siblings). His sister had a gun to her head during two different hold-ups within a couple of years, and her neighbours were robbed a couple of months back. There was also an attempted robbery on her house, but their dogs frightened off the intruders, who left their shoes in the garden, and then returned the next morning to ask for their shoes back! Dh's niece has also had a gun pointed at her head during a robbery...

[Wellers and Whitehead]

My friend lives in SA and seems to'like' it..she meet her SA husband in Leeds..and moved back with him. you wouldn't get me living in SA tho, she has bars on the windows...special lockable doors within the house so they can lock themselves in without intruders getting past them..metal..she can't go for walks in her nearby parks due to the violence..murders etc..

[flag of convenience]

I have been to South Africa (hubby is from there), but would never live there...it's far too dangerous. Beautiful country, but there's a reason everyone's leaving...they want to stay alive!

 

Not everybody is leaving and some who left have retuned. Yes some parts are far more dangerous than others (Jo'burg for example)but not everybody goes around in fear. The Western Cape has a host of good safe for the most part areas.

 

A big reason folk leave is for greater opportunity for their kids. The job market is skewered towards the majority race. Without a family business to go into a career can be very difficult.

Others of course left due to the change in the political climate and loss of special status. While others for fear of future possible developments.

While crime does play a part it is far from being the only reason folk decide to pack for Perth.

[flag of convenience]

Not now, just have to look at how many South Africans are leaving and coming to live in Aus. Way too dangerous. Such a shame because its a beautiful place and country and love the climate etc.

 

There has been a decline in South Africans coming out to Australia in recent years. Only 9,657 arrived last year which compared to say New Zealand, a country with a similar number of white folk in their population make up, sent 30,116 folk to OZ. It is a bit hard to say that danger is driving Kiwi's out.

Many folk still have a great life in South Africa. As for crime while an issue, with precautions lots of places are not that impacted.

[nikki244]

Not everybody is leaving and some who left have retuned. Yes some parts are far more dangerous than others (Jo'burg for example)but not everybody goes around in fear. The Western Cape has a host of good safe for the most part areas.

 

A big reason folk leave is for greater opportunity for their kids. The job market is skewered towards the majority race. Without a family business to go into a career can be very difficult.

Others of course left due to the change in the political climate and loss of special status. While others for fear of future possible developments.

While crime does play a part it is far from being the only reason folk decide to pack for Perth.

 

I agree about the work, dh left and came to the UK for work reasons. But not everyone leaves for work. His uncle had a thriving business, posh house, several cars, and gave it all up to go to NZ and work a normal job...he left for safety reasons. My SIL left for safety reasons, having been held up at gunpoint a couple of times, and the rest of his family left for safety or work reasons.

[flag of convenience]

Dh left South Africa about 15 years ago now, and since then two thirds of his extended family have also left, and all of his immediate family (parents and siblings). His sister had a gun to her head during two different hold-ups within a couple of years, and her neighbours were robbed a couple of months back. There was also an attempted robbery on her house, but their dogs frightened off the intruders, who left their shoes in the garden, and then returned the next morning to ask for their shoes back! Dh's niece has also had a gun pointed at her head during a robbery...

 

It can happen but I know a lot of folk living over there and the most serious incident was a woman friend who was car jacked in Richards Bay. Others have had cell phones robbed, car windows smashed, an attempted robbery and a couple of street muggings, but none to my knowledge have had a gun pointed at them, been shot, stabbed etc.

I make a point in enquiring into crime on every visit. A lot of white folk still live in areas of privilege. As I mentioned all tourists I met loved the country. Some with a passion. An elderly English couple met rent a holiday house in Stellenbosch every year and love it and had never felt threatened at any time.

 

On a previous visit a Welsh fellow I teamed up with did experience an attempted mugging along by the Durban seafront. That is a notorious place for getting done and he was warned. He was equipped with a mace spray so got away from his mugger. So I don't deny it can happen. But with a bit of care South Africa is one of the best possible countries to travel.

The numbers of happy international tourists there vouch for that. Strongly recommended.

[flag of convenience]

I agree about the work, dh left and came to the UK for work reasons. But not everyone leaves for work. His uncle had a thriving business, posh house, several cars, and gave it all up to go to NZ and work a normal job...he left for safety reasons. My SIL left for safety reasons, having been held up at gunpoint a couple of times, and the rest of his family left for safety or work reasons.

 

I didn't say everyone left for work. If you have a business there life can be very good. If folk live in certain parts of the country where safety is of greater concern then yes it is a consideration.

Still a lot of South Africans look down with a degree of disdain on some of those who left. Especially those that constantly bad mouth the country from abroad.

Still a great tourist experience. I'd highly recommend Namibia as well.

[nikki244]

It can happen but I know a lot of folk living over there and the most serious incident was a woman friend who was car jacked in Richards Bay. Others have had cell phones robbed, car windows smashed, an attempted robbery and a couple of street muggings, but none to my knowledge have had a gun pointed at them, been shot, stabbed etc.

I make a point in enquiring into crime on every visit. A lot of white folk still live in areas of privilege. As I mentioned all tourists I met loved the country. Some with a passion. An elderly English couple met rent a holiday house in Stellenbosch every year and love it and had never felt threatened at any time.

 

On a previous visit a Welsh fellow I teamed up with did experience an attempted mugging along by the Durban seafront. That is a notorious place for getting done and he was warned. He was equipped with a mace spray so got away from his mugger. So I don't deny it can happen. But with a bit of care South Africa is one of the best possible countries to travel.

The numbers of happy international tourists there vouch for that. Strongly recommended.

It is a beautiful, beautiful country, and if it was safe we'd be living there as I know my hubby would want to return. But neither I nor he or the rest of his family want to live with barred windows, six foot high fencing round the property, with barbed wire on top, electric security gates and having to padlock themselves into their houses every night. They don't want to look over their shoulders everywhere they go, and love the fact that the stress of being so guarded the whole time literally just lifted off them when they left.

However, they are from Durban, which I know is more dangerous than Cape Town, though I'm sure it'll follow suit eventually.

[flag of convenience]

It is a beautiful, beautiful country, and if it was safe we'd be living there as I know my hubby would want to return. But neither I nor he or the rest of his family want to live with barred windows, six foot high fencing round the property, with barbed wire on top, electric security gates and having to padlock themselves into their houses every night. They don't want to look over their shoulders everywhere they go, and love the fact that the stress of being so guarded the whole time literally just lifted off them when they left.

However, they are from Durban, which I know is more dangerous than Cape Town, though I'm sure it'll follow suit eventually.

 

Go check out Western Cape very cool places to live. Durbs has relocated from old days to further out where live goes on a folk fill coffee shops and go to the beach and do what normal people do. Still I would not want to live in Durban myself. Some god places are, Franschoek, Paarl, Stellenbosch, Montagu, etc....

[BritChickx]

It is a beautiful, beautiful country, and if it was safe we'd be living there as I know my hubby would want to return. But neither I nor he or the rest of his family want to live with barred windows, six foot high fencing round the property, with barbed wire on top, electric security gates and having to padlock themselves into their houses every night. They don't want to look over their shoulders everywhere they go, and love the fact that the stress of being so guarded the whole time literally just lifted off them when they left.

However, they are from Durban, which I know is more dangerous than Cape Town, though I'm sure it'll follow suit eventually.

sounds like something out of The Purge!

[flag of convenience]

sounds like something out of The Purge!

 

Alice Springs isn't much different though. Durban has nice safer areas as well. Just be aware of the CBD and beach area.

[purpleal]

As a South African who has lived in Joburg and on the Garden Route, Eastern Cape, I think I am pretty well informed as to what goes on in that hellhole! I, nor my family, will ever, ever, did I say EVER?! go back to that place again. If I had to list all the things that have happened to us, our family and our friends - you would not believe me, you would think it was straight out of some hardcore crime novel. It is a beautiful country and yes, IF you have money (many don't) you can have a nice life. Well, as nice a life you can - with the constant needing to look over your shoulder, locking doors, no driving late at night etc - do you know how stressful living like this is? You are on a constant state of alert. Many people that leave, say it takes about 2 years before they can sleep easy at night, without worrying about every noise they hear in the house.... in the yard...is it someone coming to hurt my family? Is it someone trying to steal my car? Do I go and look, do I call the police? Will the police even come? Etc etc, do you get my drift?

If you don't have money, you are not able to protect your family security wise ie no electric fencing and fancy security systems - leaving you uncomfortably open to attack. Criminals will always go for the easy targets, you see. Rather the house without the security than the house with. And unlike Australia and the UK, there is NO benefit system either - if you lose your job, your house, tough, go stay with relatives or find a township and put up a shack - yes, there are white squatter camps and townships, however unlike the black population, these people are supposedly 'previously advantaged' so do not get government assistance, they must just scavenge and starve.

So, rose tinted tourism glasses aside, a beautiful place scenic wise, but to some degree hell on earth. Even if someone paid my for my ticket and gave me 10 grand spending for a holiday, I would say no and stay here in Oz. Where I am safe, my family is safe, medical treatment is top class, my family can be educated properly, the weather is great, the beaches are lovely, government assistance is required, the list goes on. Why would I give this up, to become a possible statistic? And yes, I am one of those that the South African's hate - I make no secret of the fact I think it is a hellhole and I have facts to back me up. If anyone is interested, Google Censorbugbear reports, or have a look at the Facebook group 'Genocide of the white minority'. Here you will see that we are not just talking home invasions and murder, we are talking torture and brutality. This is the cold hard truth and not for the faint hearted.

Save your money and go to Fiji, Mauritius or the Seychelles - far more relaxing!

[Levi]

Been to South Africa for 5 months (summer there, just before the world cup) while visiting my sister and her family. I wouldn’t live there, high crime rate, very dangerous, otherwise very beautiful country. Sister & Co. lived there for 8 years. Nothing happened to them, but some of their friends were hijacked, broken into their homes, etc.

 

flag of convenience’s post tells it like it is, read it on the second page.

 

As for visiting there, I’d recommend going. Britchick you too. 95% sure people will be fine. It would be as expensive as you make it. Currency exchange: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1gbp%20in%20zar As flag of convenience puts it: Pretty decent value in fact for foreign tourists.

We traveled a lot, spent a lot, but we went there to experience as much as possible.

 

Extending our visa was a nightmare though (in Springs)!

 

I also have to completely agree with CarolineD82: “But the rich-poor divide is unbelievable. I’ve never seen it so in your face.”

 

Wellers and Whitehead & nikki224: Well said (4th page). Sister’s complex was surrounded by a 2 meter wall, + half a meter of electrified fence on top of that. Gate for an entrance, with an armed guard. This was close to Joburg. Not many sidewalks there.

 

We’ve been all over the places mentioned here:

lived mainly in Benoni, somewhat close to Joburg

checked out Soweto, Rustenburg, Witbank, Heidelberg, Pretoria, Bronkhorstspruit, Boksburg, Brakpan, Kempton Park + Sun City

then visited Kruger park, Hazyview + many of the surroundings in the N-E of SA

then down through the middle of the country (Kimberley, Prieska, Sutherland=telescopes!)

through Ceres reaching the S-W of SA including Cape Town, Stellenbosch, Paarl and most of the wine region, Cape Peninsula & Cape Point, lots of botanical gardens and zoos, Simon’s Town, Hermanus, down to Cape Agulhas (southernmost point of Africa); Swellendam + Montagu + Robertson; Plettenberg Bay + Knysna; Oudtshoorn; Bloemfontein; Sasolburg and back to Joburg.

We didn’t reach Durban, because we ran out of time.

 

We didn't get sick, didn't get hurt in any way, so it was amazing, captivating and well worth it!

Last but not least, I would love to visit SA again, so if anyone is going then let me know. But first, Australia!

 

(Below a picture of me, Cape of Good Hope in the background)

[Candygirl]

Yes, we went to Cape Town for a few days and then drove from there to Port Elizabeth (beautiful scenery).

 

We were warned about Cape Town and what it would be like by a South African who I worked with so we were prepared for what we would see.

 

Although we had a fantastic holiday, it is not somewhere that we would ever choose to live. All the time we were in Cape Town, we felt uneasy, but the towns on the Garden Route felt very different.

[NANNY NELLY]

Yes lived there for 23 years, the good times are over i'm afraid......

[flag of convenience]

As a South African who has lived in Joburg and on the Garden Route, Eastern Cape, I think I am pretty well informed as to what goes on in that hellhole! I, nor my family, will ever, ever, did I say EVER?! go back to that place again. If I had to list all the things that have happened to us, our family and our friends - you would not believe me, you would think it was straight out of some hardcore crime novel. It is a beautiful country and yes, IF you have money (many don't) you can have a nice life. Well, as nice a life you can - with the constant needing to look over your shoulder, locking doors, no driving late at night etc - do you know how stressful living like this is? You are on a constant state of alert. Many people that leave, say it takes about 2 years before they can sleep easy at night, without worrying about every noise they hear in the house.... in the yard...is it someone coming to hurt my family? Is it someone trying to steal my car? Do I go and look, do I call the police? Will the police even come? Etc etc, do you get my drift?

If you don't have money, you are not able to protect your family security wise ie no electric fencing and fancy security systems - leaving you uncomfortably open to attack. Criminals will always go for the easy targets, you see. Rather the house without the security than the house with. And unlike Australia and the UK, there is NO benefit system either - if you lose your job, your house, tough, go stay with relatives or find a township and put up a shack - yes, there are white squatter camps and townships, however unlike the black population, these people are supposedly 'previously advantaged' so do not get government assistance, they must just scavenge and starve.

So, rose tinted tourism glasses aside, a beautiful place scenic wise, but to some degree hell on earth. Even if someone paid my for my ticket and gave me 10 grand spending for a holiday, I would say no and stay here in Oz. Where I am safe, my family is safe, medical treatment is top class, my family can be educated properly, the weather is great, the beaches are lovely, government assistance is required, the list goes on. Why would I give this up, to become a possible statistic? And yes, I am one of those that the South African's hate - I make no secret of the fact I think it is a hellhole and I have facts to back me up. If anyone is interested, Google Censorbugbear reports, or have a look at the Facebook group 'Genocide of the white minority'. Here you will see that we are not just talking home invasions and murder, we are talking torture and brutality. This is the cold hard truth and not for the faint hearted.

Save your money and go to Fiji, Mauritius or the Seychelles - far more relaxing!

 

I don't agree with your post in entirety but accept we can all have different experiences in the same country. A lot depends on geographic location as to the level of crime and risk to person.

Besides living there during apartheid times I have made several visits of different durations over the years and don't see it through rose tinted glasses by any means.

It is just a shame that you see it fit to advise folk not to go to RSA but Seychelles (check out the murder rate on that island, if your so into stats. Very high) Yes I have been to both Seychelles and Mauritius are neither are close to the experience a tourist can have in South Africa.

The chances of a tourist encountering crime are pretty remote. Take a look at the stats. Read travellers comments. I never encountered any tourists and spoke with a lot, that had encountered any crime what so ever this time there.

Many were frequent visitors are love what the country has to offer. All too many South Africans abroad seem to have an axe to grind with regards to their former homeland. Some may have a reason but there are equally many as contented white South Africans living back there happy with their lot and hopeful towards the future.

[flag of convenience]

Yes lived there for 23 years, the good times are over i'm afraid......

 

In your opinion. I know many doing very well. One lot also packed for Perth but returned within four months not liking it.

[flag of convenience]

Been to South Africa for 5 months (summer there, just before the world cup) while visiting my sister and her family. I wouldn’t live there, high crime rate, very dangerous, otherwise very beautiful country. Sister & Co. lived there for 8 years. Nothing happened to them, but some of their friends were hijacked, broken into their homes, etc.

 

flag of convenience’s post tells it like it is, read it on the second page.

 

As for visiting there, I’d recommend going. Britchick you too. 95% sure people will be fine. It would be as expensive as you make it. Currency exchange: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1gbp%20in%20zar As flag of convenience puts it: Pretty decent value in fact for foreign tourists.

We traveled a lot, spent a lot, but we went there to experience as much as possible.

 

Extending our visa was a nightmare though (in Springs)!

 

I also have to completely agree with CarolineD82: “But the rich-poor divide is unbelievable. I’ve never seen it so in your face.”

 

Wellers and Whitehead & nikki224: Well said (4th page). Sister’s complex was surrounded by a 2 meter wall, + half a meter of electrified fence on top of that. Gate for an entrance, with an armed guard. This was close to Joburg. Not many sidewalks there.

 

We’ve been all over the places mentioned here:

lived mainly in Benoni, somewhat close to Joburg

checked out Soweto, Rustenburg, Witbank, Heidelberg, Pretoria, Bronkhorstspruit, Boksburg, Brakpan, Kempton Park + Sun City

then visited Kruger park, Hazyview + many of the surroundings in the N-E of SA

then down through the middle of the country (Kimberley, Prieska, Sutherland=telescopes!)

through Ceres reaching the S-W of SA including Cape Town, Stellenbosch, Paarl and most of the wine region, Cape Peninsula & Cape Point, lots of botanical gardens and zoos, Simon’s Town, Hermanus, down to Cape Agulhas (southernmost point of Africa); Swellendam + Montagu + Robertson; Plettenberg Bay + Knysna; Oudtshoorn; Bloemfontein; Sasolburg and back to Joburg.

We didn’t reach Durban, because we ran out of time.

 

We didn't get sick, didn't get hurt in any way, so it was amazing, captivating and well worth it!

Last but not least, I would love to visit SA again, so if anyone is going then let me know. But first, Australia!

 

(Below a picture of me, Cape of Good Hope in the background)

 

There are some similarities with Australia without the edge. The prices are far more favourable in South Africa as well and in my opinion the food better. I love South African whites (I refer to the wine) The distances are not as great as Australia to reach greater diversity in landscape. Driving very easy and the full service at service stations. Something long gone out of fashion in Australia.

 

Walking around Cape Town is generally fine by day. We covered a lot of area on foot on all visits. After around 9pm these days would only use a taxi to return from the city to say Green Point or to go to V & A. I have come across the occasional dodgy character where I was aware an incident could arise. Both times I refused to give cash but purchased some food, a role for example and went on my way.

 

I really can't say that I felt in danger anywhere outside of Durban and though nothing happened I could easily see how being in the wrong place at the wrong time may well not be a healthy exercise especially in life preservation.

 

I know several Saffies here in Perth that do make frequent visits back. One woman is back there now in fact.

 

I'd advise anyone wanting a great holiday to go and perhaps include Namibia as well or even Mozambique.

[gwolst77]

As a South African who has lived in Joburg and on the Garden Route, Eastern Cape, I think I am pretty well informed as to what goes on in that hellhole! I, nor my family, will ever, ever, did I say EVER?! go back to that place again. If I had to list all the things that have happened to us, our family and our friends - you would not believe me, you would think it was straight out of some hardcore crime novel. It is a beautiful country and yes, IF you have money (many don't) you can have a nice life. Well, as nice a life you can - with the constant needing to look over your shoulder, locking doors, no driving late at night etc - do you know how stressful living like this is? You are on a constant state of alert. Many people that leave, say it takes about 2 years before they can sleep easy at night, without worrying about every noise they hear in the house.... in the yard...is it someone coming to hurt my family? Is it someone trying to steal my car? Do I go and look, do I call the police? Will the police even come? Etc etc, do you get my drift?

If you don't have money, you are not able to protect your family security wise ie no electric fencing and fancy security systems - leaving you uncomfortably open to attack. Criminals will always go for the easy targets, you see. Rather the house without the security than the house with. And unlike Australia and the UK, there is NO benefit system either - if you lose your job, your house, tough, go stay with relatives or find a township and put up a shack - yes, there are white squatter camps and townships, however unlike the black population, these people are supposedly 'previously advantaged' so do not get government assistance, they must just scavenge and starve.

So, rose tinted tourism glasses aside, a beautiful place scenic wise, but to some degree hell on earth. Even if someone paid my for my ticket and gave me 10 grand spending for a holiday, I would say no and stay here in Oz. Where I am safe, my family is safe, medical treatment is top class, my family can be educated properly, the weather is great, the beaches are lovely, government assistance is required, the list goes on. Why would I give this up, to become a possible statistic? And yes, I am one of those that the South African's hate - I make no secret of the fact I think it is a hellhole and I have facts to back me up. If anyone is interested, Google Censorbugbear reports, or have a look at the Facebook group 'Genocide of the white minority'. Here you will see that we are not just talking home invasions and murder, we are talking torture and brutality. This is the cold hard truth and not for the faint hearted.

Save your money and go to Fiji, Mauritius or the Seychelles - far more relaxing!

 

Both my neighbors either side of me are from SA (Joburg and Cape Town), we are all basically fresh of the boat and moved in at the same time last year and they all say they would never go back. One of our neighbors friends was hacked to death in his garage a couple of months ago, he had just moved in and was unpacking some boxes in his garage and was attacked (and apparently this was in a more affluent area) and they did not take anything either just a random attack. They say the same things about being constantly on guard feeling or hearing noises at night and worrying it is an attacker.

 

I've also seen various things regarding the attack on whites and how it is not reported etc and I have to agree I don't think I would ever go to SA now. Had a few offers over the years to work in SA (just a few weeks at a time) and turned them down due to what other colleagues have said and that's before moving over here and make SA friends.

[Levi]

Forgot to add that wherever we went the lodging / sleeping accommodations were absolutely brilliant. Everything was booked online. Separate houses / hotels were clean and welcoming. Your car was washed, your dishes were washed, we just had to make a mess and by the time we got back in the afternoon / late evening everything was in ship-shape. Nothing was stolen either. So yes, I had a good time, no, make that an exceptional time!

[flag of convenience]

Both my neighbors either side of me are from SA (Joburg and Cape Town), we are all basically fresh of the boat and moved in at the same time last year and they all say they would never go back. One of our neighbors friends was hacked to death in his garage a couple of months ago, he had just moved in and was unpacking some boxes in his garage and was attacked (and apparently this was in a more affluent area) and they did not take anything either just a random attack. They say the same things about being constantly on guard feeling or hearing noises at night and worrying it is an attacker.

 

I've also seen various things regarding the attack on whites and how it is not reported etc and I have to agree I don't think I would ever go to SA now. Had a few offers over the years to work in SA (just a few weeks at a time) and turned them down due to what other colleagues have said and that's before moving over here and make SA friends.

 

And my OH's friend's brothers 16 year old son was stabbed to death almost three years ago here in Perth by someone unknown. It can happen everywhere.

All I can do is repeat I know South Africans here in Perth that return most every year. As I do folk doing very well in business over there.

 

The OP wanted to know about holidays in South Africa, not immigrating. I say South Africa is one of the best holidays you'll ever have. The country has such a diverse range of things to do. What makes it a winner are the great animal parks. Not to say affordable price.

 

The country if full of tourists. There are many times more tourists in say Cape Town than Perth. That city offers so much to see and do. It is safe for tourists with a bit of common sense. The Garden Route is safe and full of tourists. There are numerous back packers and English language students.

 

A number of tourists make it a regular destination. Europeans love it. Some go there to hunt. Big money in that business.

May advice for the novice would be hire a car in Cape Town and do the Garden Route. Save as and full of tourists. Great B&Bs and driving is easy.