Melb3000

Yeah, but England much more than most other nations. English people have killed far more of these people than Australians, and a history of it that goes back further. England has aggressively colonised and trashed numerous cultures from around the world, to the extent that it's a major reason why today, Asians, Africans, etc. don't trust white Europeans. White Australians were extremely late on the scene.....

What's Britain's historical record of human rights? Starving and oppressing the Irish and the Scottish, murdering white South Africans and putting them into concentration camps, conquering the Indians and massacring them when they 'stepped out of line', conquering certain African and Asian countries in order to build an 'empire' of white western supremacy running roughshod over the 'noble savages' in the process. Finally, declaring the continent of Australia 'Terra Nullius' despite the indigenous population that had already lived there for tens of thousands of years in order to dump their so called criminals. What did the big bad Aussies do? Restrict non white immigration until the 1960s. It pales in comparison.

The UK has over ten times the population of the state of Victoria but is roughly the same size. Either the cities and larger towns in the UK are many times denser or a much higher percentage of land is urban, or both, how else does this equation work? EDIT: 21% of the land in UK was urbanised in 2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_England#Land_use

For natural areas, try the area around the Yarra river going all the way out to the outer eastern suburbs, eg. Herring Island, Studley Park, Warrandyte, the Heidi Museum of Modern Art at Bulleen (a middle suburb by the Yarra) which was once a major artists colony in the 19th century that was responsible for a great deal of Australia's most famous artwork. Dandenong ranges which are right on the eastern fringe of the metro area but contain tall forests, gullies with some pockets of rainforest and lyrebird habitat as well as extensive European style gardens and homes.

First up, corner Flinders and Swanston and around Princes Bridge which is pretty much the hub of Melbourne with the station and Fed Square. Spring street and MacArthur street, a lot of landmarks around this intersection with Parliament House, Old Treasury building, Windsor Hotel and also the Princes Theatre and St Patricks Cathedral not far away. Bourke street mall with Myer and David Jones department stores and also a hub for street music and acts and one of the busiest parts of the city during the day. The sporting precinct just to the south east of the city around Brunton avenue, Batman avenue, etc. Royal Botanic gardens and Government house, Fitzroy gardens and Alexandra gardens which are all not far from the sporting precinct. Royal Park and the Zoo. State Library at the corner of Latrobe and Swanston. The University, especially around the northern boundary with all the residential colleges. Southbank Promenade. Some great Victorian streetscapes around the inner suburbs, especially Carlton, North Melbourne, Smith street Collingwood, Brunswick st Fitzroy, Gertrude street and Nicholson street near the Royal Exhibition building (also home to the Museum), Chapel street Prahran etc. Arts centre and Art Gallery south of Princes Bridge on St.Kilda Road. A tour around Williamstown, St Kilda, Station Pier (where the Tasmania ferry comes in and departs from), and farther out places like Brighton and Elwood will give you a good idea of bayside suburbs and atmosphere.

Melbourne is under the same climate classification zone as England, i.e. the Oceanic zone as per the widely used Koppen Classification system. The main difference between Melbourne (and southern Victoria in general) and England lies in the latitude difference (Melbourne is at the same latitude as Seville, Athens and far northern Iran/southern Turkey), and also the continental influence, i.e. Melbourne is on the southern edge of a vast land mass that extends towards the equator through the tropics, therefore contains some very hot deserts in the inland tropical areas. The net effect of all this is that Melbourne has roughly similar weather to southern England (think cool with a lot of showery changeable weather and frequent rain for a lot of the year) but with somewhat sunnier skies on average, temperatures several degrees higher, especially in winter and the hottest days in spring through autumn are significantly hotter than what you get in England. I would also say that Melbourne experiences higher rainfall rates during the warmer months with severe thunderstorms at times and wilder fluctuation in temperature. Melbourne is also prone to sudden squalls and variation in wind speed throughout the year, especially in spring and summer. Spring is usually very windy with frequent periods of gales when cold fronts come through. Keep in mind that the central Melbourne climate is not necessarily indicative of the entire Melbourne metro area. For example the wettest parts of the Dandenong ranges receive up to 1400mm of rain a year, contain pockets of temperate rainforest and have similar average temps to London thanks to the elevation. Areas to the west of Melbourne on the other hand are bordering on semi arid (in the driest areas around Werribee) due to a rain shadow from the Great Divide and can get extremely hot when the strong northerly winds come through in summer as they are in lee of the mountains and hills of the Great Divide and are under the influence of a Foehn effect on these days. Areas on the Great Divide to the north of Melbourne are also quite wet (700-1400mm a year) and also have similar average temps to southern England, sometimes receive snow down to as low as 400-500m above sea level and can suffer frosts with temps down as low as -7C in winter. Some towns on the ranges near Melbourne rarely get above 10C during the winter months. Overall though there is enough pleasant weather through the year to compensate for the unpleasant stuff.

There are two types of people in Australia today who use the old fashioned slang terms; -Working class people, especially from remote rural areas -Tossers attempting to dumb themselves down (a common trait in an anti-intellectual country which sadly Australia falls into the category of.) I have barely used an Australian slang term in my life (born and bred Australian). I don't even say G'day or mate, in fact it makes me cringe to hear people say it. Intelligent and educated people very rarely use Australian slang. As for the 'Americanisms' these are becoming disturbingly common. I have even heard people on the news, including politicians and professors using terms such as 'good to go' and 'from the get go'. :embarrassed:

The game of soccer is not popular among ordinary Australians despite what some may try to tell you. The Rugby codes and Australian Rules football dwarf it in popularity. I couldn't tell you where the nearest club to my place is and I'm not far from Melbourne. The extreme lack of depth is a major issue. We have had a handful of good players in recent years and they fluked a relatively good result in the 2006 World Cup. Beyond that there is no one of note who is truly up to international standard. They will be annihilated in the upcoming World Cup, but at the end of the day few in Australia will really care.

The Liberals have always lacked tact when it comes to diplomacy with Indonesia. Howard seriously rubbed them up the wrong way as well. Labour Australian governments tend to have much better relationships with Asian countries' governments. The Libs tend to treat them as overt threats and in a patronising manner, which for a country like Indonesia who were repressed by Dutch colonialism until relatively recently and are fiercely nationalistic as a result, certainly find hard to swallow. The big problem with Indonesia/Australian relations is the disparity between the two cultures. Indonesia is the largest muslim country in the world, they harbor a multitude of terrorists and terror groups who have specific interests against Australians and Australia of which the Bali bombing was a direct result. Australia doesn't trust them and vice versa and that's where the spying comes in. If you've ever been over there, especially to Java, you would find there is a huge amount of resentment and mistrust of Australians among the people in the street. I was over there in 1997 as part of a school trip and was constantly harassed in the street, being asked if I was Australian in a sinister way and members of our group were called, '*@%*$ Aussies' because we refused to buy the fake watches and stuff they were trying to sell. Definitely racially motivated and nationalistic. Australia can never be 'friends' with Indonesia, all the two nations can ever hope for is basic cooperation. It's a little similar to how the USA feels about Cuba and Mexico and vice versa.

I think society is starting to discover that anti depressants aren't all that great to be honest. People I know who have been on them have reported a very uncomfortable feeling akin to a 'zombie' like state unable to feel a normal range of emotions. They have their purpose when it comes to people who are suicidal or completely unable to function and carry out necessary day to day activities, but when it comes to most cases of depression they do nothing to tackle the underlying causes, i.e. the distorted thinking patterns, self defeating attitudes, excessive sensitivity to rejection from others etc. that lead to ultimate feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. The most effective treatments, scientifically proven over more than half a century, are the 'talking' therapies, eg. Cognitive Behavioural therapy and Rational Emotive Behavioural therapy. Psychologists and Psychiatrists that are trained in these therapies are widespread in the community however I can imagine GPs not referring patients to these therapists. It seems a trip to the GP rarely results in an outcome not invoving some sort of drug being prescribed.

Malmsbury botanic gardens in central VIC, last weekend. The town of Malmsbury-

Melbourne is a very different city to what it was 50 years ago. A lot of fantastic buildings and whole streetscapes demolished to make way for modern international style buildings and skyscrapers. It used to be one of the worlds greatest Victorian era cities. Only pockets of noteworthy Victorian architecture remain in the city today, enough to be significant but nothing like it once was. Look up some older pictures of Melbourne to get an idea of what it used to look like... I wouldn't say Melbourne is bland at all, geographically it may be a little but not in terms of the city's atmosphere. It has extremely eclectic architecture from multiple eras (since around 1840), contains some fantastic Victorian era commercial and government buildings, terrace housing and Italianate style mansions in the suburbs and is probably the most horticulturally significant city in Australia on account of its parks and gardens. It also is very well developed in terms of 'cultural' elements, eg. festivals, live music scene, theatre, arts etc. I guess there is nothing much for people traveling from the other side of the world in terms of 'marquee' attractions, but that's not what Melbourne is all about. It's just a really nice place to be around in between all the real hectic tourist stuff.

The early settlers went crazy introducing birds from around the world, mainly Europe, to Australia. Blackbirds, sparrows, starlings, indian mynahs and goldfinches are very common in south eastern Australia. I must admit that the Blackbird song at dawn is magnificent. During spring here it is prominent. Australia has a very diverse range of songbird species. The best of these would have to be the grey shrike thrush, pied butcherbird, magpie, and lyrebird. I find that some of the most magnificent dawn choruses are in the outback areas and semi arid zones of Australia where many of the birds have haunting songs and calls.

The recent 11 days in a row below 20C max in Melbourne was actually the longest stretch this late in the year since December 1963 (or something like that). Further inland in the hills it was even colder. Ballarat had 6 of those days below 15C and four days 13C and below as well as a 0C minimum on the 25th. Overall it was only a little below average across the southern half of the state for maximum temps thanks to some warmer weather in the first half of the month. October is not necessarily a warm month in Melbourne. By December it should be consistently warm with just the odd cool day.

I was up around Cairns in August and it was pretty dry around there and there appeared to be a lot of burnt out vegetation around the place, I'm not sure if they were wildfires or fuel reduction burning. I can imagine it's a very different story in January though. A lot of the most bushfire prone areas in NSW and VIC are actually wet forest with tree ferns and mountain ash and pockets of temperate rainforest with soft leaved species. The main problem is when it dries out in summer and you get the searing winds from the desert about 2000km away (which only happens on the odd day). The eucalypts are full of highly flammable oils, similar to pine oil that combust very readily. There aren't that many eucalypts up in the north eastern tropics which reduces the risk of fires.

I do and I have all my life. I could never live in suburbia, I need to be near nature. I was in the thick of the Ash Wednesday fires as a 1 year old. Our house survived despite most of the area getting practically wiped out. If you come to the same area now you would never know there has ever been a bushfire. Lush vegetation, green farmland and some of the grandest gardens in the country.t Bushfires are a constant threat in summer but you learn to deal with them. The vast majority of the time you don't get anything too serious. It's getting worse with climate change but even so, most years only see relatively minor fires. It's only the occasional year you get the catastrophic fires like we are seeing in NSW atm and Black Saturday in 2009, Ash Wednesday 1982 etc. The benefits of living out in the forested areas with all the wildlife, flora and fauna and peace and beauty far outweighs the risks of fires to be honest.

The bush doesn't cause the fires though. Irresponsible people do.... Most of these major bushfires tend to be caused by arsonists, fallen power lines clashing with vegetation on days of very strong winds, activities carried out on days where it shouldn't even be considered in high risk areas, eg. the military exercise that may have caused one of the fires and other human activities. Another major reason is reckless domestic burn offs on days where there is high fire risk. With a lot of these government authorised 'controlled' burns, the focus is on meeting targets for the sake of community appeasement rather than sustainable fuel reduction that helps preserve biodiversity and conservation values in the forests and bush as well as protecting land owners' life and property. In Victoria, after the Black Saturday fires, there was a royal commission that recommended a huge percentage of public land to be burned each year, mostly in order to show the community how 'serious' they were about preventing further catastrophes in future bad fire seasons. What has resulted from this is some rather mad and occasionally reckless burning over the spring and autumn periods, often on days that are not ideal (still high fire risk), and often in areas right out in the wilderness where there are few towns or properties anyway. A lot of this constitutes a desperate attempt to meet the targets set by the commission and not necessarily to protect the community (although this is still the main concern). Whilst I believe 100% in controlled and sustainable fuel reduction burning in settled areas with very high fire risk, the way that this is carried out often leads to entire areas getting choked out with thick smoke (creating serious issues for asthmatics etc.) as well as general unacceptable pollution levels and also the significant loss of biodiversity in the forests, i.e. flora and fauna, as I find around my area that they tend to burn the same areas time and time again, not allowing for any species recovery in between. Around where I live I have noticed a significant reduction in wildflower displays and the diversity of flora since the royal commission recommended drastic burning. Also many iconic animals, eg. koalas, wombats etc. get killed by some of the more intense burn offs that take place. There have already been some disastrous instances where government controlled burns have turned into full blown bushfires. There was one several years ago that wiped out most of Wilsons Promontory and almost reached the busy camping area around Tidal River (that could have lead to significant loss of life). There have been others as well. As I said, controlled fuel reduction burning is an important tool for prevention of loss from bushfires, it's not all cut and dried and a one sided story though. The 'greenies', conservationists, naturalists and people who live in these areas and the nearby cities that enjoy the forests and wildlife have a valid point as well. It's a complex issue and with tragic events like this people tend to lose perspective which is understandable I guess. Many of the people who live in forested mountainous areas like the Blue Mountains and NSW southern highlands do so because they love the forest, the flora and fauna and the aesthetics of these places. Many would not agree with reckless and emotionally driven overkill with respect to controlled burning regimes. The Blue Mountains are world heritage listed thanks to these attributes. It would be a shame to lose that listing in the future because it's all been irrersibly degraded.

Melbourne does not have 6 months of temperatures with 4 or more days a week of 25C though. Whoever said that was just being flippant. At most it is four months, i.e from December to March. In many years about half of March and half of December don't meet the criteria either. As for the responses claiming that southern and mountain areas of Victoria have climates nothing like southern UK eg. London, look up the official statistics for these places. The average temps by month and the rainfall amount and distributions are very similar, especially in places on the central ranges and elevated southern areas. Admittedly, places at lower elevations and also in the north of the state are significantly warmer each month, the distribution of max temps over the course of the year follows a similar pattern however. Also look up the Koppen climate classification which is one of the most widely used and accepted climate classifications. Melbourne and a large part of south eastern Australia is classified Cfb- Oceanic, the same as pretty much all of the UK. The only major difference is that southern Victoria sees higher temps on average as a result of a much lower latitude and more continental influence, especially in summer. Probably more extremes in terms of heavy rainfall intensities and severe thunderstorms when they occur and greater changes in temp over short periods of time in spring and summer. Also the BBC article claiming the UK is the only place in the world with highly changeable weather over the course of a day and longer periods and with conflicting air masses from different directions is just a little too naive for my liking, almost to the point of being absurd actually. They could have rewritten most of that article to describe Melbourne and Victoria's weather. Victoria is notorious for erratic weather patterns and shifts of weather over short periods of time, as well as sudden shifts of wind direction bringing rapid weather changes. Victorians are constantly getting caught out by weather changes, eg. It's beautiful sunny and warm at 12pm and by 12:20 there are squalls and hail and the temp has dropped 5C, then this cycle repeats about 5 times for the rest of the day.

Another important factor to consider is the strength of the sun. Even down in southern Victoria it seriously packs a punch in summer. A 20C day in January in Melbourne can feel very pleasant thanks to the influence of the sun. Even today it felt very warm here on the central VIC ranges despite the temp only scraping the low 20s. It's because the sun intensity here at this time of year is probably about equal to Northern Europe in mid summer.

Nowhere near as hot in Melbourne as places at similar latitude and elevation in Europe. Eg. check out the summer maximums and averages for places like Seville, Athens, Cyprus and Sicilly and then look at Melbourne's averages. The places on the Med are heaps hotter. There is a widely used climate classification system called the Koppen climate classification that puts Melbourne in the same category as London. Victoria may have higher extremes than the UK (in terms of heat) but overall the climate is remarkably similar, especially when you get up into the hills.

For Melbourne, I could really only pencil in January and February as months where you can expect 25C+ for 4 or 5 days in a week. As someone else mentioned, Melbourne's weather is very up and down temperature wise, especially from early spring to early autumn. Most of Autumn and Winter are much more consistent from day to day in terms of temps. A typical week in Melbourne in mid summer would go something like this for maximum temperatures...... 21C, 27C, 33C, 20C, 22C 24C, 30C. Occasionally there are days that get over 40C and sometimes there can be a few consecutive days in the mid to high 30s. Most of the time it is pretty temperate though. Inland areas of Victoria typically have much warmer summers than closer to the coast thanks to the continental influence and lack of seabreezes. In those places you get more extended spells of hot weather above 30C and most days are at least low to mid 20s. Places like Bendigo for example have consistently warm to hot days in summer. Down on the coast it stays pretty cool. Some of the popular seaside resorts like Apollo Bay and Lorne only see the occasional day where it is actually hot enough to warrant swimming. Most days stay in the low 20s with stiff sea breezes.

It's worth noting that central Melbourne is one of the warmer places in Victoria in winter. Most places inland of the coast can get quite cold in winter and in places on the hills and ranges the average temperatures approach that of southern England. July was a very mild month in Melbourne and most of Victoria, one of the mildest on record in fact. June and July were also well above average for sunshine hours. Both months were pretty wet. August has been cold and very showery so far with some form of rain on most days. Summer is hotter inland and especially the further north you go with the ranges a little cooler. Many places 1 hour out from Melbourne are in 'the hills' and not all that warm at all really, except in summer, and quite pleasant for most of the year. The biggest challenge with the southern Victorian climate is the changeability. Temperatures can fluctuate wildly from day to day and even hour to hour in spring and summer. On some days the winds can be rather severe as well and thunderstorms when they occur from spring to autumn are often severe with hail and squalls.

Melbourne's urban sprawl is amongst the most extensive and poorly planned of any city in the western world. There are hardly any rail lines or public transport in many of these suburbs. It is full on LA style out there, McMansions and all. If you don't have a car or are much of a driver then you are in big trouble living in Melbourne outer suburbs. Even pedestrians are left out in the cold for the most part. To develop the city and inner areas more extensively is a better way to go than to keep eating up agricultural and environmentally significant land and turning it into a human zoo. You only need to look at the Caroline Springs/Melton/Werribee triangle to see an example of what I am talking about. I will concede though, one thing I am passionate about which is generally at odds with inner urban development, is the protection of built heritage. Most of Melbourne's grand buildings from the Victorian era were recklessly destroyed in the 1950s-1970s to make way for modern skyscraper and high rise development as well as car parks etc. Luckily there are still some of these grand buildings left and they need to be preserved, as well as the Victorian era terraces and Edwardian/Federation housing. A balance needs to be struck.

The vast majority of Australians seriously couldn't care less about what a bunch of people from some eccentric island on the opposite side of the world think about them. The British need to get over the whole colonial, British empire thing that ceased to exist about 70 years ago and 112 years ago in Australia. The UK is a far less significant country now than it has ever been and it seems some are unable to deal with this.

A lot of people like to say that Melbourne lacks natural beauty and wilderness, but how many cities in Australia (or the world for that matter) can boast some of the tallest trees on earth and temperate rainforest within just 45-50km of the city centre. As you say, Victoria has some really diverse scenery packed into quite a small area, and some of the best of this is within 100km of Melbourne