Skilled Visa Points Test - Summary and Comment

[Alan Collett]

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

 

Best regards.

[claireg]

Thanks Alan.

[Guest Mary Cockerill]

Hi Alan I have just been wading through the releases for the proposed new points test. I note that points will be awarded for a Degree, up to PHD and for Apprenticeship / trade qualifications, but the only 'diploma' mentioned is that which has been gained from within Australia. Does this mean that any person who holds a formal 3 year diploma or the such like is now going to be totally out of the running unless that diploma was awarded in Australia? This seems a little unfair. Looking forward to your comments.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Mary

 

I have a question for you, please. You are in South Africa and most of your clients are South African. How difficult will it be for them to get IELTS 8?

 

I've never done an IELTS but I am told that it is not easy, even for somebody who is a native English speaker, because the English used in the IELTS is not the ordinary sort of English that an English person would use in his/her local supermarket, pub or church. From what I have heard, it is the usual rubbish dreamt up by the British Council - ie the sort of "Ebglish" that doesn't actually test anything except whether or not one has discovered the knack for passing the IELTS.

 

To prove my point, there is now ample evidence to show that many British tradesmen are actually dyslexic. They are very good with their hands but when it comes to reading, writing, grammar and spelling they get the words muddled up.

 

I've also been told that even the Speaking module floored one of them. The candidate, a British Brickie, was told to discuss how his local library helped his local community. He didn't have a clue. Asking him how his local pub helped his local community would probably have kept him going, in fluent English, for at least 30 minutes! However he had never set foot in his local library.....

 

This sort of thing is not a genuine test of somebody's linguistic abilities, it seems to me.

 

I suspect that the IELTS is an end in itself, not a legitimate tool for demonstrating that somebody has learned to speak English adequately. So how much of a barrier is IELTS 8 likely to be, do you think?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Guest Manj]

Hi Mary

Asking him how his local pub helped his local community would probably have kept him going, in fluent English, for at least 30 minutes!

Gill

 

 

LOL good one Gill !! :laugh:

[Guest Mary Cockerill]

Hi Gill many thanks for your posting. Due to the changes in the English languagae requirement the need for English Speaking South Africans increased dramatically. It was interesting to see the outcome of these tests especially where both husand and wife were requried to sit. I can atest to a certain amount of 'competition' between them..lol... Of the many many of my clients that have sat the test the majority were able to meet the 4 x 7 without too much trouble... a few have met and surpassed the 4 x 8 requirement, a few unfortunately stuggled with the odd 6.5 cropping up.. sadly one lady sat 6 times and will still need to sit again for the elusive 4 x 7. My afrikaans speaking clients were quite worried, and some did struggle but most of them used the learning matterial available, and some did the workshop before sitting the test. For the most part they were sucessful with a couple of them requiring a re sit. But in answer to your question I think the Afrikaans speaking South Africans may struggle to get 8's and even the English speaking South Africans may battle.

 

I have been fortunate to be involved with the British Council who have regular meetings for agents to get a better idea of what the test involves and how the modules are actually marked. Which has given us some good pointers for advising the 'sitters' on where to be careful.

 

You are spot on with regards the tradesmen. I was married to a tradie for 16 years, a panel beater, body finisher by trade and very good at what he did/does.. and for the most part very articulate in areas that he knew about, but to ask him to put pen to paper or finger to a key board was and is torture for him. I know for a fact that he would never ever ever pass the IELTS test. (being 80% deaf doesn't help either).

 

I think the new language requirements is going to cause a great deal of grief for many many people and I think the British Council are going to have to seriously think about giving some very intensive workshops to prospective 'sitters'.

 

I do hope that some clarity will come out regarding the Diploma issue. I cannot believe that Australia would discount diploma'd people from overseas and only award the Artisans and Degree'd people. What are your thoughts.

 

Regards Mary.

[Guest VickyMel]

Hi Gill

 

I'm a Brit but currently in RSA.

 

Having lived in both countries I would say that overall the majority of South Africans - across the range of professions - have a similar level of English and should have as much chance as a Brit getting IELTS 8.

Some people no problem - others will find it difficult. There is an additional aspect in that some people will be coming from a background where English is their dual or second language and then it may not be quite the same.

 

My South African OH scored 8.5 overall (I don't think I would have done so well).

We did some online practicing beforehand and if he had gone straight in he would not have done so well.

 

VickyMel

[Guest Manj]

Hi Mary

 

To prove my point, there is now ample evidence to show that many British tradesmen are actually dyslexic. They are very good with their hands but when it comes to reading, writing, grammar and spelling they get the words muddled up.

 

Gill

 

I agree with this point... at my office we have a fantastic developer/programmer who specialises in SharePoint/SilverLight development, one of its kind. He has a very rare skill set and is in huge demand as well.

 

However, his verbal and written communication is not that good and to be honest he does'nt need to be fluent (IELTS 8 or 7) because he never deals with the Business, its us who brings him the user requirements so that he could build the system based on the specified requirements.

[Guest china]

Hi Alan - What does "professional year" mean?

 

This new system doesn't really seem to be 'better' my OH is a SEcondary Science Teacher and under these new points I can work out he only gets 55 points and wouldn't be eligible whereas now he is, better make sure we are able to apply before next July!!!

[Guest VickyMel]

As I suspected it really would benefit us.

 

My OH gets 70 (only 15 with his age) and we could get another 5 for partner skills plus 5 more if we got state or family sponsorship.

 

I wish they had had this option ages ago as we would have gone a while back.

 

 

It really does show you that some of the people that DIAC want really get missed out because of the formula. When the SOL came out this July we saw loads of people move from the bottom category to the top (and I suspect many of those people had been on the previous previous CSL list of 2007/8?) - I suspect this will do likewise. Then in a year or so I imagine they will be desperate for all the people that this list makes it impossible to get a visa and the criteria will change again to favour those people again. It seems something is missing in each set of the calculations that would provide for a good mix or everyone that Australia really wants.

 

VickyMel

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Mary

 

Sorry - I can't answer your query to Alan about Diplomas. I haven't studied any of the details myself and at the moment I am baffled by the new Points Test! I think it is best to let Alan or one of the other RMA deal with your query.

 

I'm sorry that I can't hellp but I would only be guessing - which is no use to anyone!

 

Thanks very much indeed for your prompt answer to my own query about the IELTS, though,

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi All

 

I've just been reading an e-mail linking me to Mark Webster's Acacia Immigration website.

 

His article is below:

 

New Skilled Migration Points Test Announced

 

Mark says that Doctors, Nurses and Engineers will be amongst the losers from this new Test???

 

I thought that those were the very occupations that Australia is the most eager to attract???

 

This is not making much sense to me at the moment.

 

How does this thing work out for a 38 year old British Nurse who has been nursing for the last 13 years, please?

 

Many thanks :notworthy:

 

Gill

[Guest VickyMel]

 

How does this thing work out for a 38 year old British Nurse who has been nursing for the last 13 years, please?

 

Many thanks :notworthy:

 

Gill

 

I'd make that

Age 38 = 25

IELTS 7 = 10 (but with IELTS 8 could get 20)

Degree = 15

8 years+ exp = 15

 

total = 65

 

plus potential for SS

[FamilyGuys]

Hi Gollywobbler or Alan,

 

Any thoughts on how this could pan out for 176 Family sponsored? I mean reading through the FAQs, it says this will no longer be a viable visa route (quoted below) so I'm wondering what might happen to those that don't make the quota of 3,500 this year. It kind of suggests there won't be a quota for the following year so do you think we might then get capped and killed off or offered the 'regional' option? Thanks for your thoughts (if you have the time) :notworthy:

 

"There will no longer be a permanent family sponsored skilled migration visa however eligible family members can still sponsor relatives under the provisional sponsored skilled migration visa. Holders of a provisional sponsored skilled migration visa may be eligible for a Skilled Regional (Residence) visa (subclass 887) after meeting certain eligibility criteria".

[Guest clayty]

Hi Mary

 

I have a question for you, please. You are in South Africa and most of your clients are South African. How difficult will it be for them to get IELTS 8?

 

I've never done an IELTS but I am told that it is not easy, even for somebody who is a native English speaker, because the English used in the IELTS is not the ordinary sort of English that an English person would use in his/her local supermarket, pub or church. From what I have heard, it is the usual rubbish dreamt up by the British Council - ie the sort of "Ebglish" that doesn't actually test anything except whether or not one has discovered the knack for passing the IELTS.

 

To prove my point, there is now ample evidence to show that many British tradesmen are actually dyslexic. They are very good with their hands but when it comes to reading, writing, grammar and spelling they get the words muddled up.

 

I've also been told that even the Speaking module floored one of them. The candidate, a British Brickie, was told to discuss how his local library helped his local community. He didn't have a clue. Asking him how his local pub helped his local community would probably have kept him going, in fluent English, for at least 30 minutes! However he had never set foot in his local library.....

 

This sort of thing is not a genuine test of somebody's linguistic abilities, it seems to me.

 

I suspect that the IELTS is an end in itself, not a legitimate tool for demonstrating that somebody has learned to speak English adequately. So how much of a barrier is IELTS 8 likely to be, do you think?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

 

 

Hi Gill,

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that Australian kids that aren't very academic are encouraged to follow a more vocational path (ie a trade) to get them ready for the real world?

Seems to me a lot of people take up a trade as a profession for those same reasons in the UK

How can you expect an English Bricklayer to speak,read,write, and listen to English better than an Australian Bricklayer?.

As I have said in earlier posts this test was not designed for english speaking tradesmen who may not have been in a classroom for over 20 years,it was a tool for testing a foreign students(straight from a classroom) suitability for enrolment in an english speaking College or University.

Another point on the new points test.....you are awarded more points for experience yet less points for age???....doesn't experience take time?

 

A lot of people will get fed up and look elsewhere I think

 

Cheers

Paul

[Waitingawhile]

So does this mean 8 in each category for ielts or 8 overall? and does this mean 15 points per degree or can you get the points for one qualification only? Or am I wishful thinking perhaps?

[BearRules]

On the subject of nurses ... many nurses who qualified around 15 - 20 years ago probably dont have degrees, the courses were different back then, so although they have a wealth of experience they could lose out on the new points system.

[Si T]

Hi Gill,

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that Australian kids that aren't very academic are encouraged to follow a more vocational path (ie a trade) to get them ready for the real world?

Seems to me a lot of people take up a trade as a profession for those same reasons in the UK

How can you expect an English Bricklayer to speak,read,write, and listen to English better than an Australian Bricklayer?.

As I have said in earlier posts this test was not designed for english speaking tradesmen who may not have been in a classroom for over 20 years,it was a tool for testing a foreign students(straight from a classroom) suitability for enrolment in an english speaking College or University.

Another point on the new points test.....you are awarded more points for experience yet less points for age???....doesn't experience take time?

 

A lot of people will get fed up and look elsewhere I think

 

Cheers

Paul

 

I have to agree on the point regarding IELTS being an educational tool as I had to sit for WA State Sponsorship due to being an accountant and was one of only three traditionally White British people in a room of approximately eighty people. It was also of interest that only a handful were sitting the general paper where the rest seemed to be sitting the academic paper to allow them entry to British Universities.

 

One thing I found with the test is that you can get complacent if you are not careful. I found the reading and listening easy and when it came to writing I did not give it the attention I should have. Again the speaking came fairly naturally. It then resulted that while I scored 9, 8.5 and 9 across the three I mentioned I ended up with 7 for writing even though I write business papers on a daily basis as part of my job. That complacency could have set back my SS application ( which would not have been a problem as it then turned out as it was back in March) as I was then borderline for 7 in all aspects as required for SS.

 

Cheers

 

Si

[Guest clayty]

I have to agree on the point regarding IELTS being an educational tool as I had to sit for WA State Sponsorship due to being an accountant and was one of only three traditionally White British people in a room of approximately eighty people. It was also of interest that only a handful were sitting the general paper where the rest seemed to be sitting the academic paper to allow them entry to British Universities.

 

One thing I found with the test is that you can get complacent if you are not careful. I found the reading and listening easy and when it came to writing I did not give it the attention I should have. Again the speaking came fairly naturally. It then resulted that while I scored 9, 8.5 and 9 across the three I mentioned I ended up with 7 for writing even though I write business papers on a daily basis as part of my job. That complacency could have set back my SS application ( which would not have been a problem as it then turned out as it was back in March) as I was then borderline for 7 in all aspects as required for SS.

 

Cheers

 

Si

 

 

Si,

 

I just hope they keep to their word and only apply this new test after July 2011.

 

Just about to submit my 176....dont need anymore stress!

 

Cheers

Paul

[Guest]

IELTS and Degrees ??

 

Does the new points test award extra points for passing the General IELTS at 8 or above in each catogory or the Academic IELTS Test at 8 or above ?

 

As a Nurse I have already sat the Academic IELTS and had to achieve over 7 in each catogory. The academic reading part was not easy for me, even after recently studying. I had to practice the format before passing.

 

Also.

 

Will they judge the quality of your degree for example Masters, 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd, Ordinary Degree ?? Or Will it just count that you have a Degree ?

 

Has anyone sussed this out yet

 

Cheers

 

Chris :-)

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Si,

 

I just hope they keep to their word and only apply this new test after July 2011.

 

Just about to submit my 176....dont need anymore stress!

 

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

I don't think they will try to apply the new Points test during the 2010/2011 financial year. It is a heck of a job to get an IELTS booking in many places, particularly in Oz. IDP (which seems to own the rights to the IELTS in Australia) will need extra staff in order to cope with the additional demand, I suspect.

 

IDP seems to belong to Kerry Packer's son, so I have been told. I am astonished that the Australian Government does not insist on administering the IELTS themselves. Think of all that luvverly lolly they could make for themselves?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Jamie Smith]

I know DIAC are not impressed that IDP owns the IELTS license AND universities that rely on IELTS pass marks AND employ migration agents that submit IELTS documents.:realmad:

[Guest swan2748]

Get 80 easily in the new points test (age, English, qualifications, work experience). 140 in the old one. But what's the point? Still rotting in Cat 4 ... as long as they don't use the points to prioritize applications, there's no difference in just scraping in with 65 or flying through with 80 or 100 or whatever...

 

I guess the new applicants post July 2011 will get their visas before the current cat 4... justfication would be they pass the stringent point requirements so they are more desirable than us...lol

[jess1983]

Get 80 easily in the new points test (age, English, qualifications, work experience). 140 in the old one. But what's the point? Still rotting in Cat 4 ... as long as they don't use the points to prioritize applications, there's no difference in just scraping in with 65 or flying through with 80 or 100 or whatever...

 

I guess the new applicants post July 2011 will get their visas before the current cat 4... justfication would be they pass the stringent point requirements so they are more desirable than us...lol

 

Me too! Got 80 points but can't apply again because my job is no longer on the new SOL so I am stuck in Cat 4 as a dreaded 'family sponsored' applicant! As Im on a 485 (qualify for transitional arrangements because my smart agent suggested applying for my PR and the 485 at the same time) thinking of applying again for an Independent 885 before it expires next Sept as I reckon quotas for family sponsored will continue to diminish

 

Makes me laugh though..according to the new points test I am an incredibly desired candidate 27/English speaking/Bachelor Honours degree from one of the top 100 Unis in the world/substantial work experience in Australia (currently here)/2 Australian qualifications...oh if only I had a job on the SOL! Oh well!

[Jowill]

Me too! Got 80 points but can't apply again because my job is no longer on the new SOL so I am stuck in Cat 4 as a dreaded 'family sponsored' applicant! As Im on a 485 (qualify for transitional arrangements because my smart agent suggested applying for my PR and the 485 at the same time) thinking of applying again for an Independent 885 before it expires next Sept as I reckon quotas for family sponsored will continue to diminish

 

Makes me laugh though..according to the new points test I am an incredibly desired candidate 27/English speaking/Bachelor Honours degree from one of the top 100 Unis in the world/substantial work experience in Australia (currently here)/2 Australian qualifications...oh if only I had a job on the SOL! Oh well!

well depends how you look at it jess. if your job is not in the SOL, that in itself might mean that your skills are not that desirable, regardless of how much experience/how qualified you are in your field.

 

Or maybe they just expect you to get through via ENS? Especially with all the Aus job experience and if you're still working there.