total immigration injustice: rant!

[KittyB]

Immigration is a dirty word these days. In the minds of most of the native population, immigration raises the spectre of the boats full of illegals who have thrown their documentation overboard, all the better to gain entrance to Australia. It can reasonably be assumed that a percentage of those are not genuine refugees and are entering illegally as something in their backgrounds would mean legal migration would be denied. It can also reasonably be assumed that the rest, acting as their shield, suffer the consequences.

 

A knock-on effect of the glaring publicity surrounding this issue is that (perhaps usefully to the Government) it has eclipsed the debacle that legal migration has become. I am a member of that most despised demographic, it seems. I am an international student applying for permanent residency. And I am neither a criminal nor a liar. In fact, on paper, I'm a desirable citizen.

 

Previously, an international student coming here could apply for permanent residency subject to whether they had gained enough experience in the field and had graduated successfully. There has been a lot of debate whether this link between education and residency should have existed; I would debate that, in fact, that is irrelevant – the fact remains that it DID and that on the dictate of the Government. And naturally, where there is a entrance, there are people seeking to exploit it and the result was that some students were buying documentation in order to falsely claim their experience, gain residency and then jump ship into whatever other low-skilled job offered easy employment.

 

This of course is a situation that needed to be rectified. Quite often the students were motivated by the fact that decent jobs are hard to come by when you are a temporary resident...most jobs demand PR and so a Catch 69 situation had developed. But nonetheless, it could not go on. An entire industry of shonky colleges had sprung up around this abuse of the system and that also was unacceptable.

 

But now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and as we all know, two wrongs do not make a right. Ex international students like myself are now being systematically stripped of their finances by processes (unnecessarily repeated medicals, trade tests costing thousands, English testing imposed on native English speakers, etc.) which are begun at significant expense and then suddenly rendered obsolete once half way through by the continually changing rules. The Job Ready Programme most international students now undergo costs upwards of $4,000 and currently leads nowhere but another few years of imposed temporary residency.

 

As an example, I use myself because that is the case most familiar to me. I studied and graduated as a cook in 2010 whilst working part time in the industry. Shortly after, I got a full time job as a cook and proceeded from there. I have followed every dictate of the immigration department for someone in my position. So far since my graduation, the rules have changed twice and now I have invested heavily in a process which will now not allow me to apply for residency under the new rules due to my age (over 40). My mental health has been challenged by the stress of living in limbo, and I am by no means inclined towards hysteria.

 

Students can gain sponsorship through a 457 visa, which morally one could accurately call a “slave visa” in which the employer, good or not, has such power over the employee that the loss of the job for whatever reason can result in a 28 day edict to get out of the country. This can and does open up a world of exploitation and in the hands of a less than squeaky-clean employer, threaten the working conditions of the local Australian workforce. Now Perth is regional (but only for employer sponsored visas; you can have been in the same classroom as another student for 2 years and yet only one of you can claim points for regional study) and the 857 programme has opened up, it is yet to be seen if the brighter employers will take up the advantages of that.

 

Another abusive aspect of the system is the bridging visa. Presumably it was originally designed as a short term visa to keep foreigners lawfully resident whilst their applications for other visas are decided, Now graduates are kept on this visa for a 18 months at least, whilst waiting for their 485 visas (Skilled Graduate) and when you realise that the restrictions include the need to seek permission and pay $105 for another kind of bridging visa which allows you to travel out of the country, and that the reason be pressing (sick family member, your wedding, etc) which effectively disallows holidays and such mundane things as visiting friends and family, it is bordering on scandalous. These are normal human activities and the denial of them can cause extra stress in an already extremely onerous situation. There are instances of people kept on this visa for years.

 

As an example, I recently had a sudden death in the family; one of the younger members, a devastating loss. On learning of it, I scrambled for a flight in order to get to her funeral. At the immigration office in Perth I applied for my permission to travel and during this interaction I asked what the procedure was when the offices were closed and something of some urgency came up. I was told that I was “lucky” it happened at the time of week that it did otherwise I simply would not have been able to attend the funeral, or if I did, I would have been considered to have abandoned the previous 3 years of hard graft and heavy investment, the cheeky funeral-goer that I am. I need not point out to any intelligent person what is intrinsically wrong there.

 

Can it really be said of a country that they give a “fair go” when they keep perfectly genuine and capable applicants on temporary residency status for many years after entry? International students have made a very significant contribution to Australian society both financially and culturally. Temporary residents here contribute fully into the tax pot but are not allowed access to health services, domestic study, and a whole raft of support accessible to the regular tax payer. Whilst this is an inescapable fact and entirely normal to have a waiting period before accessing such services, it also throws up questions of how long you can reasonably keep people in this sort of position where they cannot settle, whilst still calling yourself a fair society.

 

I'm a little tax generator with diverse skills, world wide cultural experience, a high IQ, in good health with one doctors visit in the last ten years (and that was for immunisation), law-abiding and with years of voluntary work behind me contributing to the greater good yet the Australian immigration department is penalising me for my age (despite recent assurances that the work ethic, reliability and more robust experience of the older worker is now looked upon favourably) and my romantic status (single: someone with a partner with skills gains the crucial extra five points). This was not the case when I entered and by the time it is over for good or for bad, I will have been unfairly pushed over the age limit for which one gets any points at all (45). If I go back to the UK, it will be with the feeling of being at the receiving end of some very big failings in DIAC's policies; Australia has the right to decide who can enter and remain with sovereign immunity as can all countries and with good reason, but for goodness' sake do it with some degree of justice, or your international reputation, already looking tattered around the edges, will go completely down the drain.

 

And Australians who think that temporary residents here have no right to feel the way I do? Walk a mile in my shoes.

[fish.01]

"And Australians who think that temporary residents here have no right to feel the way I do? Walk a mile in my shoes."

 

I'm Australian and I sympathise with you. I don't like it when genuine people are tarred with the same brush as non genuine whether through bad luck, bad legislation or whatever.

 

You have put your point across very well. If you haven't already I wonder if you might post it/send it to a broader audience who might have some influence...it is worth sharing.

 

I wish you the best of luck from here on in :wubclub:

[Guest guest59177]

Actually there is a REASON why all these draconian rules have been imposed. It's because others (NOT you) had been abusing the generosity extended to students previously to a point where they were becoming a drag on resources because unwanted skills were proliferating without any need for them. The current system is set up to cater to Australia's needs NOT the student's needs (as is most logical) and these needs are:

 

1. A young workforce.

2. That is capable in the areas which the government has noted are lacking in resources.

3. And is HIGHLY qualified such that they bring with themselves world class skills.

[fish.01]

Actually there is a REASON why all these draconian rules have been imposed. It's because others (NOT you) had been abusing the generosity extended to students previously to a point where they were becoming a drag on resources because unwanted skills were proliferating without any need for them. The current system is set up to cater to Australia's needs NOT the student's needs (as is most logical) and these needs are:

 

1. A young workforce.

2. That is capable in the areas which the government has noted are lacking in resources.

3. And is HIGHLY qualified such that they bring with themselves world class skills.

 

I thought the OP acknowledged the need for change just questioned the way it was done and some of the unfair outcomes?

[Guest guest59177]

I thought the OP acknowledged the need for change just questioned the way it was done and some of the unfair outcomes?

 

Well, change can't be all encompassing can it be? I know there will always be some who suffer wrongly by changes brought by the actions of others and I feel for them. I never put the OP in a bad light. Just saying all this happened because of a certain clique of abusers...

[Freesia]

Immigration is a dirty word these days. In the minds of most of the native population, immigration raises the spectre of the boats full of illegals who have thrown their documentation overboard, all the better to gain entrance to Australia. It can reasonably be assumed that a percentage of those are not genuine refugees and are entering illegally as something in their backgrounds would mean legal migration would be denied. It can also reasonably be assumed that the rest, acting as their shield, suffer the consequences.

 

A knock-on effect of the glaring publicity surrounding this issue is that (perhaps usefully to the Government) it has eclipsed the debacle that legal migration has become. I am a member of that most despised demographic, it seems. I am an international student applying for permanent residency. And I am neither a criminal nor a liar. In fact, on paper, I'm a desirable citizen.

 

Previously, an international student coming here could apply for permanent residency subject to whether they had gained enough experience in the field and had graduated successfully. There has been a lot of debate whether this link between education and residency should have existed; I would debate that, in fact, that is irrelevant – the fact remains that it DID and that on the dictate of the Government. And naturally, where there is a entrance, there are people seeking to exploit it and the result was that some students were buying documentation in order to falsely claim their experience, gain residency and then jump ship into whatever other low-skilled job offered easy employment.

 

This of course is a situation that needed to be rectified. Quite often the students were motivated by the fact that decent jobs are hard to come by when you are a temporary resident...most jobs demand PR and so a Catch 69 situation had developed. But nonetheless, it could not go on. An entire industry of shonky colleges had sprung up around this abuse of the system and that also was unacceptable.

 

But now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and as we all know, two wrongs do not make a right. Ex international students like myself are now being systematically stripped of their finances by processes (unnecessarily repeated medicals, trade tests costing thousands, English testing imposed on native English speakers, etc.) which are begun at significant expense and then suddenly rendered obsolete once half way through by the continually changing rules. The Job Ready Programme most international students now undergo costs upwards of $4,000 and currently leads nowhere but another few years of imposed temporary residency.

 

As an example, I use myself because that is the case most familiar to me. I studied and graduated as a cook in 2010 whilst working part time in the industry. Shortly after, I got a full time job as a cook and proceeded from there. I have followed every dictate of the immigration department for someone in my position. So far since my graduation, the rules have changed twice and now I have invested heavily in a process which will now not allow me to apply for residency under the new rules due to my age (over 40). My mental health has been challenged by the stress of living in limbo, and I am by no means inclined towards hysteria.

 

Students can gain sponsorship through a 457 visa, which morally one could accurately call a “slave visa” in which the employer, good or not, has such power over the employee that the loss of the job for whatever reason can result in a 28 day edict to get out of the country. This can and does open up a world of exploitation and in the hands of a less than squeaky-clean employer, threaten the working conditions of the local Australian workforce. Now Perth is regional (but only for employer sponsored visas; you can have been in the same classroom as another student for 2 years and yet only one of you can claim points for regional study) and the 857 programme has opened up, it is yet to be seen if the brighter employers will take up the advantages of that.

 

Another abusive aspect of the system is the bridging visa. Presumably it was originally designed as a short term visa to keep foreigners lawfully resident whilst their applications for other visas are decided, Now graduates are kept on this visa for a 18 months at least, whilst waiting for their 485 visas (Skilled Graduate) and when you realise that the restrictions include the need to seek permission and pay $105 for another kind of bridging visa which allows you to travel out of the country, and that the reason be pressing (sick family member, your wedding, etc) which effectively disallows holidays and such mundane things as visiting friends and family, it is bordering on scandalous. These are normal human activities and the denial of them can cause extra stress in an already extremely onerous situation. There are instances of people kept on this visa for years.

 

As an example, I recently had a sudden death in the family; one of the younger members, a devastating loss. On learning of it, I scrambled for a flight in order to get to her funeral. At the immigration office in Perth I applied for my permission to travel and during this interaction I asked what the procedure was when the offices were closed and something of some urgency came up. I was told that I was “lucky” it happened at the time of week that it did otherwise I simply would not have been able to attend the funeral, or if I did, I would have been considered to have abandoned the previous 3 years of hard graft and heavy investment, the cheeky funeral-goer that I am. I need not point out to any intelligent person what is intrinsically wrong there.

 

Can it really be said of a country that they give a “fair go” when they keep perfectly genuine and capable applicants on temporary residency status for many years after entry? International students have made a very significant contribution to Australian society both financially and culturally. Temporary residents here contribute fully into the tax pot but are not allowed access to health services, domestic study, and a whole raft of support accessible to the regular tax payer. Whilst this is an inescapable fact and entirely normal to have a waiting period before accessing such services, it also throws up questions of how long you can reasonably keep people in this sort of position where they cannot settle, whilst still calling yourself a fair society.

 

I'm a little tax generator with diverse skills, world wide cultural experience, a high IQ, in good health with one doctors visit in the last ten years (and that was for immunisation), law-abiding and with years of voluntary work behind me contributing to the greater good yet the Australian immigration department is penalising me for my age (despite recent assurances that the work ethic, reliability and more robust experience of the older worker is now looked upon favourably) and my romantic status (single: someone with a partner with skills gains the crucial extra five points). This was not the case when I entered and by the time it is over for good or for bad, I will have been unfairly pushed over the age limit for which one gets any points at all (45). If I go back to the UK, it will be with the feeling of being at the receiving end of some very big failings in DIAC's policies; Australia has the right to decide who can enter and remain with sovereign immunity as can all countries and with good reason, but for goodness' sake do it with some degree of justice, or your international reputation, already looking tattered around the edges, will go completely down the drain.

 

And Australians who think that temporary residents here have no right to feel the way I do? Walk a mile in my shoes.

 

 

I can only say I totally agree- particularly with the penultimate paragraph- I too feel I could contribute much to Australia with graduate qualifications/skills etc- but am prevented from applying for a permanent visa in my own right due to age- I also accept there has to be a cut-off point- but that leaves me with no option but to stump up mega$ which I can never hope to recoup in order to move permanently to join my family.

so- will you pursue the 457 route do you think??? since it is not age-related?? You surely have a very good chance of securing employer sponsorship in due course- or are you giving up ??:nah:

[Sol2Oz]

Wow, KittyB - what an awesome essay. I feel it should be published in the "opinions/ essay" section of a major newspaper in Oz.

[pintpot]

It's well written and I can understand the frustration with constantly changing rules. But a large part of the reason rules change so often is to close or address loopholes or abuses. And a large part of the reason there are so many loopholes and abuses is because of the complexity of the system.

 

When governments act to close loopholes, there's always some collateral damage and innocents get hurt - I've never known it to be otherwise. It's unfortunate but a fact of life. I'd say you can expect to see more coming, too. There are two very common abuses that are referred to on this forum all the time; the first is the people who get state sponsorship for a PR visa and then never work or even live in that state. Hard to see the state authorities putting up with that for long. And the second is abuse (by employers treating people like slaves, and migrants using it as a short cut to migration) of the 457 system - even though Australia, like everywhere else, needs some sort of temporary work permit system without residency rights, which is all a 457 is. I'm sure that will be acted on too, and you can bet legitimate businesses and individuals who need a work permit system will get hit with a bunch more hoops to jump through that will slow the process down.

 

Fundamentally, as a non-Aussie, I try and approach the subject with humility; I am not a citizen and therefore don't have any right at all to expect to be able to live here indefinitely. Their country, their rules, and however frustrating it may be, their right to alter the rules whenever they see fit. That's not to be belittle your frustrations with the system but it's their country and not ours.

[Guest GoldCoastMag]

I hear your hurt, it sounds as if you have really strong feelings about this and I am wondering how you can harness your passion to get a result. It occasionally has worked by going to the media, I am inclined to think there must be better avenues though. The skilled lists change at different times, were you eligible previously? This is a major stumbling block and now I believe they are getting ready to change the rules again.

 

Immigration is a dirty word these days. In the minds of most of the native population, immigration raises the spectre of the boats full of illegals who have thrown their documentation overboard, all the better to gain entrance to Australia. It can reasonably be assumed that a percentage of those are not genuine refugees and are entering illegally as something in their backgrounds would mean legal migration would be denied. It can also reasonably be assumed that the rest, acting as their shield, suffer the consequences.

 

You are right that most Aussies know little about the bureaucracy surrounding immigration as even if they or their ancestors came from overseas the rules have changed drastically over the years.

 

A knock-on effect of the glaring publicity surrounding this issue is that (perhaps usefully to the Government) it has eclipsed the debacle that legal migration has become. I am a member of that most despised demographic, it seems. I am an international student applying for permanent residency. And I am neither a criminal nor a liar. In fact, on paper, I'm a desirable citizen.

 

Have you consulted with a good immigration lawyer, there are a couple in particular who are often mentioned on the forums.

 

Previously, an international student coming here could apply for permanent residency subject to whether they had gained enough experience in the field and had graduated successfully. There has been a lot of debate whether this link between education and residency should have existed; I would debate that, in fact, that is irrelevant – the fact remains that it DID and that on the dictate of the Government. And naturally, where there is a entrance, there are people seeking to exploit it and the result was that some students were buying documentation in order to falsely claim their experience, gain residency and then jump ship into whatever other low-skilled job offered easy employment.

 

This of course is a situation that needed to be rectified. Quite often the students were motivated by the fact that decent jobs are hard to come by when you are a temporary resident...most jobs demand PR and so a Catch 69 situation had developed. But nonetheless, it could not go on. An entire industry of shonky colleges had sprung up around this abuse of the system and that also was unacceptable.

 

But now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and as we all know, two wrongs do not make a right. Ex international students like myself are now being systematically stripped of their finances by processes (unnecessarily repeated medicals, trade tests costing thousands, English testing imposed on native English speakers, etc.) which are begun at significant expense and then suddenly rendered obsolete once half way through by the continually changing rules. The Job Ready Programme most international students now undergo costs upwards of $4,000 and currently leads nowhere but another few years of imposed temporary residency.

 

Can you find an employer who will sponsor you?

 

As an example, I use myself because that is the case most familiar to me. I studied and graduated as a cook in 2010 whilst working part time in the industry. Shortly after, I got a full time job as a cook and proceeded from there. I have followed every dictate of the immigration department for someone in my position. So far since my graduation, the rules have changed twice and now I have invested heavily in a process which will now not allow me to apply for residency under the new rules due to my age (over 40). My mental health has been challenged by the stress of living in limbo, and I am by no means inclined towards hysteria.

 

Students can gain sponsorship through a 457 visa, which morally one could accurately call a “slave visa” in which the employer, good or not, has such power over the employee that the loss of the job for whatever reason can result in a 28 day edict to get out of the country. This can and does open up a world of exploitation and in the hands of a less than squeaky-clean employer, threaten the working conditions of the local Australian workforce. Now Perth is regional (but only for employer sponsored visas; you can have been in the same classroom as another student for 2 years and yet only one of you can claim points for regional study) and the 857 programme has opened up, it is yet to be seen if the brighter employers will take up the advantages of that.

 

Another abusive aspect of the system is the bridging visa. Presumably it was originally designed as a short term visa to keep foreigners lawfully resident whilst their applications for other visas are decided, Now graduates are kept on this visa for a 18 months at least, whilst waiting for their 485 visas (Skilled Graduate) and when you realise that the restrictions include the need to seek permission and pay $105 for another kind of bridging visa which allows you to travel out of the country, and that the reason be pressing (sick family member, your wedding, etc) which effectively disallows holidays and such mundane things as visiting friends and family, it is bordering on scandalous. These are normal human activities and the denial of them can cause extra stress in an already extremely onerous situation. There are instances of people kept on this visa for years.

 

As an example, I recently had a sudden death in the family; one of the younger members, a devastating loss. On learning of it, I scrambled for a flight in order to get to her funeral. At the immigration office in Perth I applied for my permission to travel and during this interaction I asked what the procedure was when the offices were closed and something of some urgency came up. I was told that I was “lucky” it happened at the time of week that it did otherwise I simply would not have been able to attend the funeral, or if I did, I would have been considered to have abandoned the previous 3 years of hard graft and heavy investment, the cheeky funeral-goer that I am. I need not point out to any intelligent person what is intrinsically wrong there.

I am sorry for your loss.

 

Can it really be said of a country that they give a “fair go” when they keep perfectly genuine and capable applicants on temporary residency status for many years after entry? International students have made a very significant contribution to Australian society both financially and culturally. Temporary residents here contribute fully into the tax pot but are not allowed access to health services, domestic study, and a whole raft of support accessible to the regular tax payer. Whilst this is an inescapable fact and entirely normal to have a waiting period before accessing such services, it also throws up questions of how long you can reasonably keep people in this sort of position where they cannot settle, whilst still calling yourself a fair society.

 

Unfortunately moving to a foreign country puts us at the mercy of their rules, and I felt "stuck" in the USA for 18 months until I received the PR because until then I could not work nor leave the country without having to start the immigration process over.

 

I'm a little tax generator with diverse skills, world wide cultural experience, a high IQ, in good health with one doctors visit in the last ten years (and that was for immunisation), law-abiding and with years of voluntary work behind me contributing to the greater good yet the Australian immigration department is penalising me for my age (despite recent assurances that the work ethic, reliability and more robust experience of the older worker is now looked upon favourably) and my romantic status (single: someone with a partner with skills gains the crucial extra five points). This was not the case when I entered and by the time it is over for good or for bad, I will have been unfairly pushed over the age limit for which one gets any points at all (45). If I go back to the UK, it will be with the feeling of being at the receiving end of some very big failings in DIAC's policies; Australia has the right to decide who can enter and remain with sovereign immunity as can all countries and with good reason, but for goodness' sake do it with some degree of justice, or your international reputation, already looking tattered around the edges, will go completely down the drain.

 

And Australians who think that temporary residents here have no right to feel the way I do? Walk a mile in my shoes.

 

It seems that you have been disadvantaged by the changes, and it must be so disheartening to contemplate giving up on PR. I really hope there is an answer and that you find a way to do what you want.

[Petals]

Unfortunately the injustices are there to make the process the same for everyone and in particular the English language skills. Just because we speak the language does not mean we are good at it. If they were to drop it for people who speak English as a first language then there would be an outcry from people who do not but who have taken the time to learn, understand and become proficient.

 

As it stands these days all citizens of most countries in the west, the affluent countries and even some of the so called third world are not happy with the migration en mass of others to their shores and this is not going to change, can only get worse. Governments walk a fine line with migration, allowing it and at the same time making sure it does not impact on the resident population.

[wrussell]

If you want me to have a look at your case, send an email to: visa@pinoyau.com

[Purple Princess]

Hi Kitty B,

 

I feel exactly the same as you!!!

 

I am here in Australia on a student visa which doesn't expire until 2013. When we originally looked into emigrating here, we extensively looked at my husbands occupation as a self employed engineer, however, we were unable to use his occupation.

 

I am a Financial Investment Adviser and had been with my employer in the UK for 21 years. Unfortunately though, I do not have a degree. DIAC states that 5 years experience can be used instead, however, the assessing body VETASSESS, insist on a degree therefore, I would have never passed a skills assessment, and my job was taken off the SOL 3 months after we had arrived.

 

As a student, I have had to pay international student fees ($50,000) plus international student fees for my daughter ($27,000). My husband has also paid tax into the system by working his 20 hours per week, plus we have purchased out own home (stamp duty). As a condition of my visa, we also have to maintain overseas health cover (another expense) despite having a reciprocal Medicare card.

 

I also have looked into the 457 visa, and although I know it works for some, I don't feel that it would work for us. Over the last 12 months, I have been employed as a Financial Investment Adviser, working 20 hours per week, with the carrot dangling over me of a 457 sponsorship. Well, I have been well and truly exploited by my former "employer" to the extent, although he had been accepted as a business sponsor, I would not complete my part of the application and resigned. Over the 12 month period, I earned a grand total of $11,000 and out of this I still had work expenses such as fuel etc, this does not even cover the cost of my daughter's and my tuition fees for next year!! (I'm sure I would have earned more working in the local shop!)

 

With the new changes next year (Expression of Interest) I'm not sure what will happen. We have certainly made our life here and don't want to leave, but I won't graduate until after July and after my previous experience, I certainly do not want to go for employer sponsor again!! (Once bitten....)

 

I too am a mature student, turning 40 next year, so I know my points again will be reduced, limiting my chances of staying in the country we have made "home"

 

I really do feel for you, I have certainly walked a mile in your shoes, and I am continuing to do so....

 

Good luck for your future.

 

Purple Princess

xx

[ppomsinoz]

The problem with this government is they have transitional arrangements and once people are in transitional arrangement they are automatically last in the queue and they dont get a chance to move front because of the constant changes that push more people to the last of the queue.

 

I know how it is to be in a bridging visa, I was not able to secure a job in my related field just because I did not have a Permanent visa, I was fed up, I started to drive Taxis then again after few months I will chin up and search for jobs again and finally landed in one, even though I had a job since I was in bridging visa, I couldnt leave Aus for more than 3 months, couldnt bring my partner to Aus. I was in this hell visa for more than 2 years.

 

Every time a new rule changes I will qualify for it but will not be able to lodge a new application while being on Bridging visa or the department will not re-evaluate existing application to new rules, the applicant cannot change his occupation or update his experience after lodging an application but the department can constantly change the goal post to qualify, the only remedy was to make a new application off-shore while being onshore.

 

one fine day the department made a change that was in favour to my situation and I was granted a visa but still I cannot forget the time I was in bridging visa.

[Freesia]

If you want me to have a look at your case, send an email to: visa@pinoyau.com

 

Hi WR

I appreciate this offer is to Kitty_ however I have sent you 2 emails recently & had no acknowledgement- ( re minor child who is Citizen by Descent) ---- is the link you provide working do you think???

[KittyB]

"And Australians who think that temporary residents here have no right to feel the way I do? Walk a mile in my shoes."

 

I'm Australian and I sympathise with you. I don't like it when genuine people are tarred with the same brush as non genuine whether through bad luck, bad legislation or whatever.

 

You have put your point across very well. If you haven't already I wonder if you might post it/send it to a broader audience who might have some influence...it is worth sharing.

 

I wish you the best of luck from here on in :wubclub:

 

thanks, fish, for that. it makes me feel a bit better. i actually did hotly slam that all down in an email and send it off to a few newspapers; but that would be the wrong forum, given that its a long rant and realistically, a letter from a reader needs to fit in a small space on the page to enable a few people to get their points in...that would be a half page spread lol!

 

i did it in a moment of pique before, a shorter and more comical tirade and the subi post picked it up in print.

 

im not sure whether it should be an open letter to the minister and sent onto ....i dont know, a local MP? i must be someone's constituent, after all...

[KittyB]

Actually there is a REASON why all these draconian rules have been imposed. It's because others (NOT you) had been abusing the generosity extended to students previously to a point where they were becoming a drag on resources because unwanted skills were proliferating without any need for them. The current system is set up to cater to Australia's needs NOT the student's needs (as is most logical) and these needs are:

 

1. A young workforce.

2. That is capable in the areas which the government has noted are lacking in resources.

3. And is HIGHLY qualified such that they bring with themselves world class skills.

 

i dont for a moment imagine that the system need to set up for the student's needs rather than australia's needs. that would be ridiculous. i intended to take that route to residency, and was simply prepared to do everything set down for me to do that honestly. i realised a moral obligation to spend a decent amount of time in the industry but with various other skills that frankly, i have in more abundance than cooking, at which im simply competent, i would have moved on eventually, but always as a productive resident. so you could say that i was going to take advantage of the generosity, technically.

 

it is a fact, and i can comment on this as an insider in the industry, that WA at least is VERY short of competent cooks. it is a shortage, its simply the shortage that was being exploited at the time the most and the response has been to say there is no longer a shortage. originally measures were brought in that forced graduates to actually be in the industry for a year before being allowed to apply and that, actually, would have fixed the problem. the government is aware of this if my various employers complaints to the department have been noted. one (large) employer had approx 15% of its workforce on sponsorship for lack of australian applicants.

 

young workforce? 45 is the cut off, reflecting both the significant amount of time left of a persons working life, and hopefully the maturity and sense of perspective age brings. youth equals strength and resilience but also, in my experience, self obsessiveness, recklessness and downright idiocy in some cases. but i never contested the cut off point, merely that i will be pushed over it. i dont agree particularly with points being lowered the older you get. have a decent cut off point but acknowledge that up to that point, everyone has something to contribute and the older ones, i would debate, have more, which offsets their decline in physical strength.

 

in a nutshell, i would have to say that the current system is NOT catering australia's needs. theyve shot themselves in the foot a bit here; any employer/recruiter in this industry could tell you so.

[KittyB]

Well, change can't be all encompassing can it be? I know there will always be some who suffer wrongly by changes brought by the actions of others and I feel for them. I never put the OP in a bad light. Just saying all this happened because of a certain clique of abusers...

 

it did happen because of that, but its the extra machine-gun mile the government has gone that has done the damage, not the measures they originally brought in to fix it up. there are many of us who are now non-people with very few civil liberties; many. the cheaters were (i presume and hope) in the minority. the measures to deal with them have affected a large majority. theres something careless in that...thats my issue.

[KittyB]

I can only say I totally agree- particularly with the penultimate paragraph- I too feel I could contribute much to Australia with graduate qualifications/skills etc- but am prevented from applying for a permanent visa in my own right due to age- I also accept there has to be a cut-off point- but that leaves me with no option but to stump up mega$ which I can never hope to recoup in order to move permanently to join my family.

so- will you pursue the 457 route do you think??? since it is not age-related?? You surely have a very good chance of securing employer sponsorship in due course- or are you giving up ??:nah:

 

give up? screw that. ive spent the last 3 years working for crap employers as a drudge on a low income. im not investing all that blood, sweat and tears to be told no by some faceless suit for no good reason.

 

both my last employer and my current offered to sponsor me. i might not be the best cook around but i turn up to work and work my ass off and i can communicate clearly, that seems to be the benchmark now. the last employer were lovely, actually, but some of the people in the kitchen were clinical sociopaths and an ineffective head chef was making my life a misery. this one is a dog's job, total skivvying, but i have some autocracy and so will deal with it for a year or two in return for my rights as a resident...857/119 is possible in perth now, i willl NEVER go on a 457, i would rather go home. my moral objections are too strong.

 

im sorry to hear about your situation. get in however you can and at least then you can settle, and make a plan for your future. the feeling of being reamed will, i assume, finally fade...the human memory is short for a reason :biglaugh: it enables us to survive and move on. there are millions in the world worse off who live in fear for their lives and dont know where the next meal is coming from...

[KittyB]

It's well written and I can understand the frustration with constantly changing rules. But a large part of the reason rules change so often is to close or address loopholes or abuses. And a large part of the reason there are so many loopholes and abuses is because of the complexity of the system.

 

When governments act to close loopholes, there's always some collateral damage and innocents get hurt - I've never known it to be otherwise. It's unfortunate but a fact of life. I'd say you can expect to see more coming, too. There are two very common abuses that are referred to on this forum all the time; the first is the people who get state sponsorship for a PR visa and then never work or even live in that state. Hard to see the state authorities putting up with that for long. And the second is abuse (by employers treating people like slaves, and migrants using it as a short cut to migration) of the 457 system - even though Australia, like everywhere else, needs some sort of temporary work permit system without residency rights, which is all a 457 is. I'm sure that will be acted on too, and you can bet legitimate businesses and individuals who need a work permit system will get hit with a bunch more hoops to jump through that will slow the process down.

 

Fundamentally, as a non-Aussie, I try and approach the subject with humility; I am not a citizen and therefore don't have any right at all to expect to be able to live here indefinitely. Their country, their rules, and however frustrating it may be, their right to alter the rules whenever they see fit. That's not to be belittle your frustrations with the system but it's their country and not ours.

 

i understand that, i really do. my issue is with the marketing

[Guest Anya]

I rarely post on this forum (have been very busy lately) but your post really moved me. I hope you get justice and a PR visa soon. Good luck.

[KittyB]

goldcoastmag: yes, im passionate. i dont feel i should be entitled, i do feel that if i followed what they said to do and did it to the best of my ability, with honesty, i could expect some even handedness. thanks for your condolences. my employer is sponsoring me.

 

petals: yes, i take your point on board, i did my ielts anyway more out of curiosity than anything and got nine, its not a worry in that respect. and yes, youre right. everyone should have to do it to be fair. i rescind that item from my list of gripes.

[KittyB]

Hi Kitty B,

 

I feel exactly the same as you!!!

 

I am here in Australia on a student visa which doesn't expire until 2013. When we originally looked into emigrating here, we extensively looked at my husbands occupation as a self employed engineer, however, we were unable to use his occupation.

 

I am a Financial Investment Adviser and had been with my employer in the UK for 21 years. Unfortunately though, I do not have a degree. DIAC states that 5 years experience can be used instead, however, the assessing body VETASSESS, insist on a degree therefore, I would have never passed a skills assessment, and my job was taken off the SOL 3 months after we had arrived.

 

As a student, I have had to pay international student fees ($50,000) plus international student fees for my daughter ($27,000). My husband has also paid tax into the system by working his 20 hours per week, plus we have purchased out own home (stamp duty). As a condition of my visa, we also have to maintain overseas health cover (another expense) despite having a reciprocal Medicare card.

 

I also have looked into the 457 visa, and although I know it works for some, I don't feel that it would work for us. Over the last 12 months, I have been employed as a Financial Investment Adviser, working 20 hours per week, with the carrot dangling over me of a 457 sponsorship. Well, I have been well and truly exploited by my former "employer" to the extent, although he had been accepted as a business sponsor, I would not complete my part of the application and resigned. Over the 12 month period, I earned a grand total of $11,000 and out of this I still had work expenses such as fuel etc, this does not even cover the cost of my daughter's and my tuition fees for next year!! (I'm sure I would have earned more working in the local shop!)

 

With the new changes next year (Expression of Interest) I'm not sure what will happen. We have certainly made our life here and don't want to leave, but I won't graduate until after July and after my previous experience, I certainly do not want to go for employer sponsor again!! (Once bitten....)

 

I too am a mature student, turning 40 next year, so I know my points again will be reduced, limiting my chances of staying in the country we have made "home"

 

I really do feel for you, I have certainly walked a mile in your shoes, and I am continuing to do so....

 

Good luck for your future.

 

Purple Princess

xx

 

man, that sucks. employer sponsor is a frightening thing but one thing i would say is that dont give up on that route. a good employer is worth their weight in gold and they ARE out there. my previous employer was brilliant, the only problem being that they didnt have a handle of a couple of issues that were making my life miserable (pyschotic co-worker, chef that couldnt get a grip on the concept of handing out unsocial hours on an equal basis, etc.) and i would have gladly gone with them and been resident by now if i hadnt been severely burned out and socially isolated by the rostering.

 

ive now been offered by my current employer. this job is a dogsbody job, im truly a drudge. but i have some autocracy and so ill tolerate the drudgery for as long as i must. the thing is to keep your beady eye on the end prize and man, that freedom will taste sweet! aus will also have a whole bunch of new residents who have massive grudges, hahahaha! but thats a problem for the future.

 

keep your chin up!

[ramot]

Hi Kitty B, just to let you know you are not alone. Yes there was abuse of the student route, but there were also many genuine students, who's lives have been totally messed up by all the retrospective changes to the immigration rules. My family member, also a mature student, lodged a valid 885 application nearly 3 years ago, and like others has been in limbo land since on bridging visa A. The government has been sitting on his application money + thousands of other applicants for years. Dishonest springs to mind.

Has top Australian academic qualifications, but struggled to get a decent job without PR. Now works for an international company that won't sponsor, and has had to pay out again for bridging visa B to leave the country again, once for business and now for a holiday. Yet more money to the government!

Daren't hope that he might be one of the lucky ones in sched 5 to get PR sooner than later when they finally start approving them.

Good luck to you, hope something works out.

[KittyB]

Hi Kitty B, just to let you know you are not alone. Yes there was abuse of the student route, but there were also many genuine students, who's lives have been totally messed up by all the retrospective changes to the immigration rules. My family member, also a mature student, lodged a valid 885 application nearly 3 years ago, and like others has been in limbo land since on bridging visa A. The government has been sitting on his application money + thousands of other applicants for years. Dishonest springs to mind.

Has top Australian academic qualifications, but struggled to get a decent job without PR. Now works for an international company that won't sponsor, and has had to pay out again for bridging visa B to leave the country again, once for business and now for a holiday. Yet more money to the government!

Daren't hope that he might be one of the lucky ones in sched 5 to get PR sooner than later when they finally start approving them.

Good luck to you, hope something works out.

 

if i were your cousin, i would be inclined to look around for another employer. if theyre not even paying his expenses for leaving on business (presumably theirs?) they sound a little bit sucky. it need not cost them and they can lock him into a contract if they do sponsor, i really dont understand why an employer wouldnt.

 

i dont think DIAC are being deliberately dishonest (don't hold me to that) but i also dont think its acceptable, how they are handling themselves. its very damaging to their image and the upshot is that there will be a whole generation of new residents, eventually, that will be really p*ssed off, and thats hardly going to be to their advantage!

[Guest pippa1]

Hi

 

I too am in the same position as you, I applied in Dec 2008 and am on Bridging visa A. I have worked in my nominated occupation for 3 years but my employer has a policy not to sponsor as it is a government department, so I totatlly understand your frustrations....

 

Just hoping not too many of the 27000 category 5's are above me in the queue now !

 

Good luck