SHANO7 Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Vent away mate. If people take offense then they need to take a little look at why they are offended by someone else's frustrations. It's an internet forum for Christ's sake. For what it's worth I agree with what you are saying but it's also the case that the government will only be able to focus upon so much as regards to the process. It's the state that ensures that people stay within the terms of their sponsorship so maybe the state could incorporate this as well. With a finite budget I guess there is only so much monitoring that can be done before the cost/benefit curve slips the wrong way. I genuinely feel for those who have been affected by retrospective legislation changes and have posted on here in the past about how wrong it is to do this but it is what it is and I hope those of you who have been turned over by it get your visa's in good time. Si Cheers Si Understanding PIO's are the best type of PIO's Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 So I guess there are many long haired Australians which is totally down to the fact that they can't get booked in for a hair cut hehe:biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kate10 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Of course anyone with an ounce of empathy would feel for the OP and what they've been through. However the reality is that Australia is willing to allow for skilled migration to plug particular skills gaps. I'd imagine that they can live with a certain % of people who come over on visa A and work in job B, because that is human nature. Where that % gets too big in certain areas (e.g. hairdressing visas) because of people exploiting the system, they move to shut that angle down. I think one suggestion was that DIAC should follow up with people to make sure that they are working within job A. This won't happen because it is another layer of administration that costs Australia money to address a problem that is fairly small and not causing any major concern. Another suggestion is that Australia should concern itself more with character and other personal attributes that would give some indication of how someone could contribute to the country - this is a lovely idea but impossible to work in practice. And frankly I would think that they biggest concern they have at the moment is plugging skills gaps, so if you can deliver a skill they don't have that is going to trump everything else right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Of course anyone with an ounce of empathy would feel for the OP and what they've been through. However the reality is that Australia is willing to allow for skilled migration to plug particular skills gaps. I'd imagine that they can live with a certain % of people who come over on visa A and work in job B, because that is human nature. Where that % gets too big in certain areas (e.g. hairdressing visas) because of people exploiting the system, they move to shut that angle down. I think one suggestion was that DIAC should follow up with people to make sure that they are working within job A. This won't happen because it is another layer of administration that costs Australia money to address a problem that is fairly small and not causing any major concern. Another suggestion is that Australia should concern itself more with character and other personal attributes that would give some indication of how someone could contribute to the country - this is a lovely idea but impossible to work in practice. And frankly I would think that they biggest concern they have at the moment is plugging skills gaps, so if you can deliver a skill they don't have that is going to trump everything else right now. Thanks Kate for your understanding. It is appreciated. Perhaps the administrative costs of following up on applications can be taken from the $2525 that I paid to lodge our visa. I havent seen anything yet that has justified paying this amount. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MontyClaude Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I can't even begin to imagine your frustration. A guy I used to work with lodged his application about 4 years ago and keeps getting pushed to the bottom of the pile. We got our visa fast tracked because I was on the CSL at the time and although I'm thrilled with it, it does make me feel bad that someone who wants it as much as me and has so much to offer can't get in. Whenever we have niggling doubts about are we doing the right thing, we spend some time in this guys company and then just imagine that could have been us. I don't mean that in a bad way, it just reminds us how fortunate we are. I really hope you get sorted soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insizer Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Vent away mate. If people take offense then they need to take a little look at why they are offended by someone else's frustrations. It's an internet forum for Christ's sake. For what it's worth I agree with what you are saying but it's also the case that the government will only be able to focus upon so much as regards to the process. It's the state that ensures that people stay within the terms of their sponsorship so maybe the state could incorporate this as well. With a finite budget I guess there is only so much monitoring that can be done before the cost/benefit curve slips the wrong way. I genuinely feel for those who have been affected by retrospective legislation changes and have posted on here in the past about how wrong it is to do this but it is what it is and I hope those of you who have been turned over by it get your visa's in good time. Si but mate ,the reason of restricting number of places for particular occupations by minister was fill up of places in a that trade to set a cap and kick off the left.so all who got their visa in that situation and never want to work in nominated occupation after they will got p.r have grabbed others rights who r totally reliable was completely cunning .isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossda Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Just to put another slant on the arguement - what about people like me, a qualified senior nurse with 16 years experience in the UK - love my job, nothing else I want to be. Always wanted to be a nurse, always have been a nurse and always want to be a nurse but even though am in the final stages (at last) of hopefully gaining a 176 visa - on the basis of me being a nurse i might add, it is very possible that as I don't have a degree in nursing AHPRA wont let me practice as a nurse !!! So although nursing is allegedly in demand and I desperately want to continue my career in nursing in Australia perhaps I will be opening a burger bar on the beach anyway !! But what kind of laughing stock does that make DIAC ??? Giving someone a visa based on a trade and then not letting them work in it !!! Frustrated / angry / seething !! no not me !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Just to put another slant on the arguement - what about people like me, a qualified senior nurse with 16 years experience in the UK - love my job, nothing else I want to be. Always wanted to be a nurse, always have been a nurse and always want to be a nurse but even though am in the final stages (at last) of hopefully gaining a 176 visa - on the basis of me being a nurse i might add, it is very possible that as I don't have a degree in nursing AHPRA wont let me practice as a nurse !!! So although nursing is allegedly in demand and I desperately want to continue my career in nursing in Australia perhaps I will be opening a burger bar on the beach anyway !! But what kind of laughing stock does that make DIAC ??? Giving someone a visa based on a trade and then not letting them work in it !!! Frustrated / angry / seething !! no not me !!! I would definately grant you a visa. Nurses and Doctors most important people on the planet Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossda Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I would definately grant you a visa. Nurses and Doctors most important people on the planet Good luck Thank you, thats very kind - can you just go and get a job at AHPRA now please :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30038 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My apologies SHANO7, I wasn't in a very empathetic mood yesterday and under any other circumstances (than what was niggling me) I would have given your vent, and my response, a bit more consideration. I've helped a few members settle here, in the practical sense of putting them up etc and I'll be honest with you, only one is following their nominated profession. The reality "on the ground" here is that unless your profession is "high demand" irrespective of SOL, such as the Health sector, then there is no guarantee of employment. In fact not only is there no guarantee, but the last 3 yrs or so, it has been highly unlikely. One member who came as a gas fitter/plumber, spent a wad of dosh getting "accreditation" found that some of the work he was expected to do was outside his "remit" and in some cases downright dangerous, left, but couldn't find another employer...............now working as a storeman on higher salary. His wife, a team leader in disability support in the UK, was unable to find employment and grabbed at the chance to become a wardie (hospital porter) loves it, and again, is in receipt of a higher salary than she would get in here nominated profession. I could quote numerous other examples. So it is not always by choice that some do not follow their profession, and although in most cases that i know of, it works out for the best (for them), that doesn't negate the incredibly frustrating and worrisome time they had, looking for employment in their chosen field, when they first got here. I understand your frustration at the thought that for some, it may be deliberate intent not to take the right path, but sometimes that path may not be open to them. All situations are "fluid" as for example, in Pablo's case.............his back may not allow him to do "the right thing". Once again, my apologies for my "abruptness". I do appreciate how frustrating it has been for many, with the goalposts constantly being moved. Good luck mate. I hope you get there kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30038 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Just to put another slant on the arguement - what about people like me, a qualified senior nurse with 16 years experience in the UK - love my job, nothing else I want to be. Always wanted to be a nurse, always have been a nurse and always want to be a nurse but even though am in the final stages (at last) of hopefully gaining a 176 visa - on the basis of me being a nurse i might add, it is very possible that as I don't have a degree in nursing AHPRA wont let me practice as a nurse !!! If you have continued to practice and upskill, there should be no grounds for Aphra objecting to you practicing. My wife was ward trained as were most of the folk (nurses) that we have helped come over here and there has never been a problem with registration. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 My apologies SHANO7, I wasn't in a very empathetic mood yesterday and under any other circumstances (than what was niggling me) I would have given your vent, and my response, a bit more consideration. I've helped a few members settle here, in the practical sense of putting them up etc and I'll be honest with you, only one is following their nominated profession. The reality "on the ground" here is that unless your profession is "high demand" irrespective of SOL, such as the Health sector, then there is no guarantee of employment. In fact not only is there no guarantee, but the last 3 yrs or so, it has been highly unlikely. One member who came as a gas fitter/plumber, spent a wad of dosh getting "accreditation" found that some of the work he was expected to do was outside his "remit" and in some cases downright dangerous, left, but couldn't find another employer...............now working as a storeman on higher salary. His wife, a team leader in disability support in the UK, was unable to find employment and grabbed at the chance to become a wardie (hospital porter) loves it, and again, is in receipt of a higher salary than she would get in here nominated profession. I could quote numerous other examples. So it is not always by choice that some do not follow their profession, and although in most cases that i know of, it works out for the best (for them), that doesn't negate the incredibly frustrating and worrisome time they had, looking for employment in their chosen field, when they first got here. I understand your frustration at the thought that for some, it may be deliberate intent not to take the right path, but sometimes that path may not be open to them. All situations are "fluid" as for example, in Pablo's case.............his back may not allow him to do "the right thing". Once again, my apologies for my "abruptness". I do appreciate how frustrating it has been for many, with the goalposts constantly being moved. Good luck mate. I hope you get there kev Thanks Kev I appreciate that. These days I tend to blow all too quickly if I think someone is having a pop and I probably did yesterday. So, I too am sorry. We are very passionate about Australia. We do have something going on in the background that I have not posted yet for fear of "tempting fate". It is proving difficult but it might have a very good outcome. Hopefully I will post soon with some positive news for a change. Cheers Kev Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30038 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks Kev I appreciate that. These days I tend to blow all too quickly if I think someone is having a pop and I probably did yesterday. So, I too am sorry. We are very passionate about Australia. We do have something going on in the background that I have not posted yet for fear of "tempting fate". It is proving difficult but it might have a very good outcome. Hopefully I will post soon with some positive news for a change. Cheers Kev Shane Hope it bodes well for you mate. :yes: kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hairdressing was taken off the list for this reason but also because of the Visa factories that students attended that for all intense and purposes filled the quota and due to the number doing the courses it was deemed that they were no longer in short supply. Whereas the reality is different. There are always posts on here stating how many positions are being advertised for fully qualified and experienced and not your straight out of college types. There is no shortage of hairdressers here. There are loads who are either not working at all or just got better paid jobs. Hairdressing wouldn't be the best paid, that's for sure. Walk into any shopping centre and there will be 4 or 5 hairdressing salons, non of them packed and all of them fully staffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 There is no shortage of hairdressers here. There are loads who are either not working at all or just got better paid jobs. Hairdressing wouldn't be the best paid, that's for sure. Walk into any shopping centre and there will be 4 or 5 hairdressing salons, non of them packed and all of them fully staffed. My Uncle has owned a salon in Perth for 40 years. He states that wages dropped because the standard of Hairdressing dropped when the market was flooded with student types. All of the fully qualified Hairdressers are gerneraly loyal to their salon or as a result of the wages decided to go mobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My Uncle has owned a salon in Perth for 40 years. He states that wages dropped because the standard of Hairdressing dropped when the market was flooded with student types. All of the fully qualified Hairdressers are gerneraly loyal to their salon or as a result of the wages decided to go mobile There are also quite a few who have quit the profession for better money in a different career. As you say the wages fell a few years ago and the mining industries and others are booming and paying decent salaries for jobs that don't need a lot of training. There seems to be a fair bit of working weekends as a hairdresser too and why bother doing that if you can get a Mon-Fri job. Anyway, I wish you all the best on your endeavours to get in as you sound just the type of people that would do well in Oz and obviously want to come desperately. I can understand your frustration and you are spot on with your assumptions. A lot of people come over qualified for one job and end up doing something totally different. You never know you might get here yourselves and find that another opportunity comes up, nothing to do with hairdressing and you might fancy a go at it. You would see the advantages of not being locked into a particular path then. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The whole point is that a person with the skills required should (assuming the skilled visa process works as intended) be able to find employment in order to provide for themselves and their family. If they have no need to work in that occupation, I fail to see how that really matters. I came over here as a podiatrist, and I don't work in a clinical role any more; and frankly I don't see that as anyone else's business but mine. I could justify working in my current job, but I don't see that I should have to. I have a job, I pay taxes and contribute to the economy, and as far as I'm concerned as long as I do that have the right to work in whatever job I am able to secure. I really don't see how policing what migrants do when they get here would help wouldbe migrants who don't fulfill the GSM criteria to obtain their visas. Would the same rules apply if I'd come here on a spouse visa? In which case I'd still have my podiatry degree, and I still wouldn't be eligible for dole if I didn't want to work at all. What about the case of a person who develops a work-related health problem and is forced to change job? Would they then have to seek permission from DIAC? This is something I've had to face in my life, so it's not a purely hypothetical question. And by the way, the question about a woman who wants a career break isn't purely hypothetical - it happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 The whole point is that a person with the skills required should (assuming the skilled visa process works as intended) be able to find employment in order to provide for themselves and their family. If they have no need to work in that occupation, I fail to see how that really matters. I came over here as a podiatrist, and I don't work in a clinical role any more; and frankly I don't see that as anyone else's business but mine. I could justify working in my current job, but I don't see that I should have to. I have a job, I pay taxes and contribute to the economy, and as far as I'm concerned as long as I do that have the right to work in whatever job I am able to secure. I really don't see how policing what migrants do when they get here would help wouldbe migrants who don't fulfill the GSM criteria to obtain their visas. Would the same rules apply if I'd come here on a spouse visa? In which case I'd still have my podiatry degree, and I still wouldn't be eligible for dole if I didn't want to work at all. What about the case of a person who develops a work-related health problem and is forced to change job? Would they then have to seek permission from DIAC? This is something I've had to face in my life, so it's not a purely hypothetical question. And by the way, the question about a woman who wants a career break isn't purely hypothetical - it happens! Again... A comment that backs up my initial point ! Why the emphasis on Skilled Migration for In demand Jobs. If you work and pay taxes it shouldnt matter what job you do In Australia... I agree. My point is that you have to have a skill in a Job on the SOL list to get a Visa in most cases.... If Australia dont police the migrant once they arrive to see if they are doing the job that was declared on their application then why are they so interested in having the applicant prove TRA etc or work experience and have skills assessed if once they get their visa they close the file. By not following the applicant after maked a mockery of the hoops people have to jump through to get their visa in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 But surely if (as you claim) people who emigrated as hairdressers aren't working as hairdressers then that's going to lead to a shortage of hairdressers and they'll be put back on the SOL? It seems there isn't currently a shortage of hairdressers (as evidenced by the fact that hairdressing salons have so many fully trained and qualified staff they aren't bothering to take on trainees) but eventually it will work through and that will be to the advantage of hairdressers who want to migrate. If Australia ever needs unskilled migrants there are plenty available closer to hand than the UK - including in all the world's refugee camps (not that all refugees are unskilled). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Again... A comment that backs up my initial point ! Why the emphasis on Skilled Migration for In demand Jobs. If you work and pay taxes it shouldnt matter what job you do In Australia... I agree. My point is that you have to have a skill in a Job on the SOL list to get a Visa in most cases.... If Australia dont police the migrant once they arrive to see if they are doing the job that was declared on their application then why are they so interested in having the applicant prove TRA etc or work experience and have skills assessed if once they get their visa they close the file. By not following the applicant after maked a mockery of the hoops people have to jump through to get their visa in the first place. I think the emphasis on skilled migration is because there is no shortage of workers with some skills, so if they were to allow people to enter the country with any/all skills that would increase competition for jobs. I can't see many born and bred Australian citizens responding too well to that! DIAC do follow up some new migrants in order to collect statistics about their work and personal circumstances. This I know because I received 2 surveys from them in the first year following my arrival in Australia. They could see from immigration information that I still live here. They also collect data from the organisations that employ migrants - this I know because I work for an University, that by its nature employs a pretty large number of overseas nationals (skills shortages affect even the most unlikely sector!). So to say there is no monitoring is not exactly correct. There is not 'policing', which I think is a good thing - I would hate to be forced back into the same kind of work I used to do, having now gained a taste for a slightly different (though related) area of employment! My assumption is that the data collected will be used to assess the efficacy of the GSM process in addressing the skills shortages that exist in this country. Just so we're all clear, though, there have already been some moves to address the skills shortage from within Australia; for example, more undergrad health sciences programmes are offered (and in more locations, and with different formats and end qualifications) than was the case even 5 years ago. There are also a number of iniatives to 'up-skill' workers, with funding for work-based training programmes and the integration of work-related training into formal qualifications. Fundamentally, though, while people are still keen to migrate here, the Australian government can set pretty much whatever rules in place that it wants to; and for no other reason than it wants to. If they wish to limit immigration (which this government clearly does), the government will have to set some criteria on which to base its migration policy. My understanding is that they look at skill level and work experience as it relates to income. Whilst that may be rather crude, there is pretty decent sociological evidence that relates level of education to income, particularly in those occupations that demand a high level of qualification for registration. Out of interest, what alternative do you propose? How should the Australian government determine how to grant visas, and to which of the millions of potential migrants? I suppose they could abolish all migration except the humanitarian stream. Now that would go down a treat in certain quarters!:biglaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Out of interest, what alternative do you propose? How should the Australian government determine how to grant visas, and to which of the millions of potential migrants? I suppose they could abolish all migration except the humanitarian stream. Now that would go down a treat in certain quarters!:biglaugh: Fairly !! All of those people that apply prior to changes to the rules that were in place when their hard earmed money had been taken. I agree Australia can change the rules as and when but Retrospective changes are unfair. People who had a trade on the SOl should be dealt with to completion. People affected by this have been in limbo, they have told family of their intentions only to have heart strings tugged at this emotial experience. My mother keeps asking me have we heard anything as when we initially told her the timescale was 12 months its now been almost 2 years. Perhaps all Cat4-5 should get a solicitor letter done stating that this amendment should be attached to our initial visa application. The letter will state that if the rule changes and our application is not dealt with by the guidelines in place at time of lodging then should we get a refund interest will be added at 100% per year !! This is Retrospective also and would never happen but the principle is the same. The initial post I wrote was not designed to turn into a them V us situation i.e Visa granted V those waiting. Its very easy for people to disagree or back up DIAC when they already have their visa. I say congratulations to them but please still have empathy for those that have been duped ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moirclan Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 if i remember rightly when the minister was talking about hairdressers he said that although hairdressing had been on the skills list for many years , there was always a shortage of hairdressers so bringing people in on the skilled list wasnt helping the situation at all. there are still a fair few jobs available for hairdressers , a couple of years ago there was a really bad shortage , i had never seen any thing like it before in all my years of being here , now things are more normal . due to the shortage more apprentiships became available so that was good news for youngsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I quite agree that retrospective changes of any kind are unfair on applicants, and I think should not be introduced. But I didn't understand from your original post that it was these types of rule changes to which you were referring. (Which may very well be due to me not reading it properly, as happens!) My point was just that it appears that DIAC are trying to obtain evidence as to what becomes of people who arrive on 175s (or at least they were through 2009-2010). I'm not lacking in empathy, I totally understand the frustration of not getting a visa when you should. My in-laws were affected by retrospective changes to the family visa classes in the 1980s, and to this day the family remains split up. I can see and hear how painful it was and still is. And I really wasn't taking sides - I have many criticisms of DIAC, and of the way immigration has been handled over the last 4 years in this country. Unfortunately I don't have any way of expressing those views in a meaningful way until such time as I am permitted to become a citizen and thereby earn the right to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JK2510 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hiya Shane. As you know we arrived in Perth in feb this year. We have wa ss and have received nothing from the wa regarding sponsorship/settlement questionnaires!! Very odd. No follow up. Only time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHANO7 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hiya Shane. As you know we arrived in Perth in feb this year. We have wa ss and have received nothing from the wa regarding sponsorship/settlement questionnaires!! Very odd. No follow up. Only time will tell Hi Jodie Good to hear from you. Pop in and see my Uncle in London Court ( Barry Kempe) if you need a Hair Cut. Hope your settling in well Shane x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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