Guest guest36187 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Sometimes the good old RSLs are better than some restaurants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Absolutely comparing like for like. 3 bedroom house we lived in on outskirts of Brisbane was valued at $750K. For a wooden Queenslander with a pokey garden, and crap 1950s kitchen. A 3 bedroom house here in East Midlands, massive garden, solid brick house, £140K. Ok, Midlands not most expensive area of England, but fairly average. See the link below. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-24/australia-hong-kong-homes-are-the-world-s-least-affordable-report-says.html Not arguing that Australia isn't expensive but thought I would add another opinion given I don't think your Brisbane example is typical - though I'm sure there are some as you have described. You could buy a 3 bedroom queenslander within walking distance of the CBD for $750. Or a 5 bedroom queenslander within 4km of the city for $800. On the outskirts of Brisbane you could buy a 5 bedroom big house with pool for $530: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-shailer+park-107334097 4br, pool, $460: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-daisy+hill-107034495 5br: $530: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-redland+bay-107439033 4br, pool $530: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-redland+bay-107361637 Also note that, on average, Australian new build houses (outer suburbs) are 3 times the size of UK new builds. Note: Deducted $20,000 off asking price but in this market most should negotiate a bigger price drop than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Hoff.....think of the people in the UK and the land mass they have to put them in! Lots of space here for fewer people! I think our new build houses are too big...planning laws should be changed to encourage smaller homes IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MADTOM Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I am so sorry things are not working out. There is good and bad wherever you live. I must say I am not as enamoured with Aus as I thought I would be and many things constantly annoy me, but the thought of moving back to UK just does not appeal. Yes I miss family and friends and feel sad that the kids don't have access to grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, cousins etc. I miss M&S, Tesco, & Boots. I miss the countryside etc, school meals etc etc.... these needs can be satisfied by a holiday home each year (If we can afford it) If you are homesick the grass is always greener the reasons you moved to Oz in the first place become less clear but I am sure that if we moved back now we would soon regret our decisions. Maybe if you could move back to Oz you will discover a new appreciation for the country and begin to settle happily. I know cost, time, effort emotions would be high but if you have realised your mistake now it is better to mend it now rather than later. By the way I can fully relate to the driving round the countryside and having a nice pub lunch - We often did that but were more often than not disappointed afterwards - the food did tend to be microwaved, poor quality and over priced! Hope you can come to some decision and can be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 In Northern WA, where the prices are not cheap, I have had some pretty disgusting food. I found it better to go and eat in the Miner's camps than the restaurants and hotels. I didn't think they would have too many restaurants in northern WA How big are the towns there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I didn't think they would have too many restaurants in northern WA How big are the towns there? There are about 4 hotels, 15 odd restaurants... I think part of the problem is Fish is the bringing in of foreign labour with poor salaries. For a mining town Karratha is well subscribed with eateries but just poor quality with a very captive clientelle. FIFO has many damaging elements! Susie x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MonsterMunch Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I'm intrigued to find out what the pull of Australia is? Why do people move there? For us it was the thought of better weather and that OH and I could both work easily, no language barriers (for him more than me as I love languagues). If we could've got the same opportunity in France/Spain/anywhere-in-Europe, we probably would've gone there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 5br: $530: http://www.realestate.com.au/propert...+bay-107439033 What a beautiful house this is fish, cheers for that .............. its a dream home indeed, we could have afforded this house without a mortgage before the uk went in the long financial slump, to get it now we would have to get a $200,000 loan. We want to emigrate to Australia because firstly its fantastic, secondly the weather is amazing, the beaches and warm sea are incredible, theres more jobs there for the kids to have a good future, with proper pay and conditions, everyone seems friendly and they speak English and it looks really modern a bit like Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tlander56 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 hi all,just a quick one on heading back to blighty, we arrived back 2 weeks ago, im starting to think its been a big mistake, we headed back after two years in aus, the missing of family ect was the main reason, we went to oz for no reason other than the challenge of somthing new and exiting, i worked for all of the time there and we had some really good friends, however it seemed right to head back (family ilness ect) . after getting back we were in total shock, the unemployment is massive where we live, (was thriving when we left) family were pleased to see us for about a day , its back to normall already, house prices seem to have risen here, freinds are still here, their lives have not changed which is fine because thats a individual choice, however we have changed a lot, we are more independant as a family unit, we no longer need family to dictate our lives any more, and yes the green rolling fields are lovely, but so were the hinterlands of qld, marks and spencer rocks but so does big w. coffee here is shocking and going to the pub involves not taking a piss due to the possibility of being mugged by a 14 year old on coke!!! wine bars have sprung up every where and folks seem to go in and pretend their somthing else due to the fact their in a wine bar, honestly it baffled me when i bumped into some old friends acting like somthing from a flaming reality show, food is cheap as chips here, fuel is through the roof expensive, all people talk about is how crap the govt is, there is no positivity about the place, i spoke to so family friends about the floods and the damage it caused and also the spirit of how people turned up to help out because its about "doing the right thing" , one bloke said how pathetic it was that the govt needed to get the public to help out, i nealy swung for him, but thats the spirit of the uk, no motivation at all, this is only how i see it so dont leap on me, i just want folks to understand that heading back to the uk may not be the right thing to do, we were so exited at the thought of heading back, only two weeks in and were almost broken, one more thing, nothing is free here, the weather is bland and dreary, i read folks banging on about driving through the countryside here for a lovely pub lunch in a beer garden with the kids a watching a fantastic sunset over the hills, reality is cheap microwaved pub food indoors due to the dreary rain with the kids moaning because the beergarden is vandalised and full of vomit and needles, oh and you know that carvery or fish and chips your dying to have when you arrive, well it tastes great but after you have had it you wonder why you missed it, i hope those who are back in blighty are enjoying there time here and not having the fun times im haveing, to those in aus, think before you head back in fact try a holiday before you ship it all back. this is only my opinions so dont bag me to much, Sorry to hear it hasn't worked out as you hoped. We moved back to London in March 2010..first 6 mths were nice..like a long holiday with friends and family, but began to hate it after then. Now back in Aus (a few grand worse off) but at least we gave it a go! Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce 7 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Tanya, I followed your story intently when you went back, I was really undecided at that time also. We had booked to go back then decided to stay and went back for a holiday only. It still took me another year to feel settled hear. Sorry it didn't work out for you and hope that you are more settled this time that you are back. Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRK AND CO Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 hi all,just a quick one on heading back to blighty, we arrived back 2 weeks ago, im starting to think its been a big mistake, we headed back after two years in aus, the missing of family ect was the main reason, we went to oz for no reason other than the challenge of somthing new and exiting, i worked for all of the time there and we had some really good friends, however it seemed right to head back (family ilness ect) . after getting back we were in total shock, the unemployment is massive where we live, (was thriving when we left) family were pleased to see us for about a day , its back to normall already, house prices seem to have risen here, freinds are still here, their lives have not changed which is fine because thats a individual choice, however we have changed a lot, we are more independant as a family unit, we no longer need family to dictate our lives any more, and yes the green rolling fields are lovely, but so were the hinterlands of qld, marks and spencer rocks but so does big w. coffee here is shocking and going to the pub involves not taking a piss due to the possibility of being mugged by a 14 year old on coke!!! wine bars have sprung up every where and folks seem to go in and pretend their somthing else due to the fact their in a wine bar, honestly it baffled me when i bumped into some old friends acting like somthing from a flaming reality show, food is cheap as chips here, fuel is through the roof expensive, all people talk about is how crap the govt is, there is no positivity about the place, i spoke to so family friends about the floods and the damage it caused and also the spirit of how people turned up to help out because its about "doing the right thing" , one bloke said how pathetic it was that the govt needed to get the public to help out, i nealy swung for him, but thats the spirit of the uk, no motivation at all, this is only how i see it so dont leap on me, i just want folks to understand that heading back to the uk may not be the right thing to do, we were so exited at the thought of heading back, only two weeks in and were almost broken, one more thing, nothing is free here, the weather is bland and dreary, i read folks banging on about driving through the countryside here for a lovely pub lunch in a beer garden with the kids a watching a fantastic sunset over the hills, reality is cheap microwaved pub food indoors due to the dreary rain with the kids moaning because the beergarden is vandalised and full of vomit and needles, oh and you know that carvery or fish and chips your dying to have when you arrive, well it tastes great but after you have had it you wonder why you missed it, i hope those who are back in blighty are enjoying there time here and not having the fun times im haveing, to those in aus, think before you head back in fact try a holiday before you ship it all back. this is only my opinions so dont bag me to much, If I did not know better it sounds like you live on a different planet. My home town Newbury is picture perfect compared to what you describe how lucky i am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ph0en1x Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 If I did not know better it sounds like you live on a different planet. My home town Newbury is picture perfect compared to what you describe how lucky i am. Indeed Newbury is a very nice area, know it very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alandeej Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 hi all,just a quick one on heading back to blighty, we arrived back 2 weeks ago, im starting to think its been a big mistake, we headed back after two years in aus, the missing of family ect was the main reason, we went to oz for no reason other than the challenge of somthing new and exiting, i worked for all of the time there and we had some really good friends, however it seemed right to head back (family ilness ect) . after getting back we were in total shock, the unemployment is massive where we live, (was thriving when we left) family were pleased to see us for about a day , its back to normall already, house prices seem to have risen here, freinds are still here, their lives have not changed which is fine because thats a individual choice, however we have changed a lot, we are more independant as a family unit, we no longer need family to dictate our lives any more, and yes the green rolling fields are lovely, but so were the hinterlands of qld, marks and spencer rocks but so does big w. coffee here is shocking and going to the pub involves not taking a piss due to the possibility of being mugged by a 14 year old on coke!!! wine bars have sprung up every where and folks seem to go in and pretend their somthing else due to the fact their in a wine bar, honestly it baffled me when i bumped into some old friends acting like somthing from a flaming reality show, food is cheap as chips here, fuel is through the roof expensive, all people talk about is how crap the govt is, there is no positivity about the place, i spoke to so family friends about the floods and the damage it caused and also the spirit of how people turned up to help out because its about "doing the right thing" , one bloke said how pathetic it was that the govt needed to get the public to help out, i nealy swung for him, but thats the spirit of the uk, no motivation at all, this is only how i see it so dont leap on me, i just want folks to understand that heading back to the uk may not be the right thing to do, we were so exited at the thought of heading back, only two weeks in and were almost broken, one more thing, nothing is free here, the weather is bland and dreary, i read folks banging on about driving through the countryside here for a lovely pub lunch in a beer garden with the kids a watching a fantastic sunset over the hills, reality is cheap microwaved pub food indoors due to the dreary rain with the kids moaning because the beergarden is vandalised and full of vomit and needles, oh and you know that carvery or fish and chips your dying to have when you arrive, well it tastes great but after you have had it you wonder why you missed it, i hope those who are back in blighty are enjoying there time here and not having the fun times im haveing, to those in aus, think before you head back in fact try a holiday before you ship it all back. this is only my opinions so dont bag me to much, Exactly why we are heading to Oz - seriously though we live in what I call the best part of the UK in Cornwall and its alarming how things have changed even in this part of Britain. You should all be aware of the austerity measures in the UK. This can only make things worse resulting in cuts and companies closing down, especially on the jobs front, causing high unemployment especially as youth unemployment is an all time high with many youngsters that have never worked at all and don't want to work choosing to live on state benefit. Many low paid jobs are now taken by Eastern Europeans since the changes in the EU, if you can, take a look at the channel 4 documentary 'The Hotel' which gives some idea of the problem. With many big companies relying on Eastern European labour. We have lived in Cornwall for over 15 years, I felt restricted in my job so I went to work back in the Midlands, the worse decision of my life and now have work away in London and your quote on social life is correct, there is a big drugs problem in the UK, I just think many choose not to see it. We are not heading to Oz with Rose tinted spectacles either, and neither should anyone returning to the UK remembering how things used to be especially if it has been some time since visiting the UK. I understand that Oz it is not for everyone, in fact we have even seen people move to Cornwall and not like it and return back 'up country' I know people miss families which seems to be the main factor, or missing the green and pleasant land but one thread I read quoted 'Missing M&S and Boots' which is just laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ph0en1x Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Exactly why we are heading to Oz - seriously though we live in what I call the best part of the UK in Cornwall and its alarming how things have changed even in this part of Britain. You should all be aware of the austerity measures in the UK. This can only make things worse resulting in cuts and companies closing down, especially on the jobs front, causing high unemployment especially as youth unemployment is an all time high with many youngsters that have never worked at all and don't want to work choosing to live on state benefit. Many low paid jobs are now taken by Eastern Europeans since the changes in the EU, if you can, take a look at the channel 4 documentary 'The Hotel' which gives some idea of the problem. With many big companies relying on Eastern European labour. We have lived in Cornwall for over 15 years, I felt restricted in my job so I went to work back in the Midlands, the worse decision of my life and now have work away in London and your quote on social life is correct, there is a big drugs problem in the UK, I just think many choose not to see it. We are not heading to Oz with Rose tinted spectacles either, and neither should anyone returning to the UK remembering how things used to be especially if it has been some time since visiting the UK. I understand that Oz it is not for everyone, in fact we have even seen people move to Cornwall and not like it and return back 'up country' I know people miss families which seems to be the main factor, or missing the green and pleasant land but one thread I read quoted 'Missing M&S and Boots' which is just laughable. Do you really believe this story is the norm? i certainly do not. Do you really believe that those that are returning to the UK do not know exactly what the situation is there? we certainly are well aware what awaits us, we just don't like it here for lots and lots of reasons, not M&S and Boots thats mad. We are moving back to the UK with our eyes wide open and fully understanding all the issues it may have, your rose-tinted glasses may need new lenses because the green grass here certainly needs mowing just like anywhere else. Our decisions should be respected. For every post like yours i could post one to counter it. In addition, Australia also has a drug problem as does everywhere with gun crime to go with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I have read both your posts above and i think both are fair and honest, both countries have alot to offer, but currently alot of things are happening in the workplace here in the uk and unless you are here experiencing it, you don't realise how bad it is, its not as simple as unemployment being at 7.8% in the uk and only 4.9% in Australia, theres alot of cut backs in wages, contracts, increases in part time work, low paid jobs being created, pensions being effected and so on and to me the government are playing a dangerous game, cutting back on what people earn for a number of years, won't get them spending more and the economy is struggling to come out of recession fully, but ............ its on the news, the rich are getting richer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ph0en1x Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I have read both your posts above and i think both are fair and honest, both countries have alot to offer, but currently alot of things are happening in the workplace here in the uk and unless you are here experiencing it, you don't realise how bad it is, its not as simple as unemployment being at 7.8% in the uk and only 4.9% in Australia, theres alot of cut backs in wages, contracts, increases in part time work, low paid jobs being created, pensions being effected and so on and to me the government are playing a dangerous game, cutting back on what people earn for a number of years, won't get them spending more and the economy is struggling to come out of recession fully, but ............ its on the news, the rich are getting richer. Hoff, the ecconomy of countries goes around in cycles and i'm sure the UK will pull out eventually as it always does. The UK's ecconomy is very diverse from service industry to manufacturing. The problem here at the moment is that there is too much of a reliance on our natural resources and in particular exports to China and India, personally i dont think long term that this is sustainable and something has to give The housing market is deflating too to some extent as house prices are simply not sustainable at the present levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scotinaus Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I think we can all agree that there are upsides and downsides to both countries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I will just give you one example of what the government are doing, take my job for instance a prison officer ............ alot of things are happening, firstly over the last two years we have since staff numbers reduced to what we think are dangerous levels, to save £1 million pounds in the first year, then last year we had to save another million, so we have reduced staff numbers even more and replaced alot of jobs with civilian workers and finally we have to save a million more this year, so ............ we don't have new prison officers being trained to replace old staff retiring, new Prison officers don't exhist anymore, we are now training officer grade 2's, on almost half the pay, less pension, retiring later and after we have done this it looks like we will be .............. privatised, which means in two years time i will have to accept a Serco or G4S contract after a one year TUPE agreement has ended and accept £7,000 less pay or ................ resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ph0en1x Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I think we can all agree that there are upsides and downsides to both countries... Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ph0en1x Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I will just give you one example of what the government are doing, take my job for instance a prison officer ............ alot of things are happening, firstly over the last two years we have since staff numbers reduced to what we think are dangerous levels, to save £1 million pounds in the first year, then last year we had to save another million, so we have reduced staff numbers even more and replaced alot of jobs with civilian workers and finally we have to save a million more this year, so ............ we don't have new prison officers being trained to replace old staff retiring, new Prison officers don't exhist anymore, we are now training officer grade 2's, on almost half the pay, less pension, retiring later and after we have done this it looks like we will be .............. privatised, which means in two years time i will have to accept a Serco or G4S contract after a one year TUPE agreement has ended and accept £7,000 less pay or ................ resign. Don't you think that is going on everywhere, it certainly is here in the privatized correctional industry Like i said our decisions are varied and should be respected in the same way that Brits returning home don't post these "Stories" in the welcome forum for Brits going to Oz. Just dont need it to be honest, especially from someone who moves back to the UK, without a job to a place that resembles downtown Beruit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsindecision Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 i think pssibly a lot of where you live is a lot to do with it, unfortunatly here is very dead, shame really, no industry of any kind left, all the shops in the high street have been replaced with poundland, wilkinsons, qd, charity shops, ect, even the wimpy has changed to a crappy cafe, It is really important to think about where you will live - once you have lived somewhere beautiful it is hard to adjust. I must admit I suffered badly with reverse culture shock on coming back mainly because of the greyness of Uk following sunshine of Qld. But adjustment does come and you really do need to allow yourself time to start to enjoy the good bits of being back. Especially with he lovely weather we have been having. Fortunately for us we had jobs to come back to (wouldn't have come back otherwise) and money behind us ( we worked really hard in Oz and were very careful with our money). I forced my husband into agreeing to rent a really nice house in a nice area ( made it a personal mission of mine to earn the money to pay for it). and despite him resisting it was the best thing we did at least when we feel a bit lost we have a nice house to come back to. My husband's job is better here despite being in the NHS - better pay and conditions than in Qld, my work is far more engaging and challenging here and my colleagues are much more respectful and thoughtful - don't expect me to work until the small hours to meet ridiculous deadlines. I know, each person's experience can be completely different. Good luck - think about what it is you want from your life and think about how you can achieve that - here or there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marra2000 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I think there is allot of ignorance in the Australia is economically better. Do those really believe that there is no drug problem, or even it is less than UK, actually its getting worse.....and gun crime.... do those ever read papers? With the high dollar Australia is now importing more crap from China than ever, damaging the manufacturing industry and focusing on its mining . How stupid can Australia be ? As for migrant workers in UK from Europe, there has been the large exodus now so those hotel jobs can be taken. I will be looking at importing to Australia ( not saying what the field is ) so I can take advantage of the high dollar and get a good foot in the retail part I am planning. The UK is more diverse than Australia and no doubt always be for many years to come, Australia has allot to learn from UK and does nothing to turn away from the wall its about to hit over the next 12 - 18 months, wait until the mining slows. Carbon tax, higher utility bills. Under 5% unemployment. So someone on a 15 hour part time job or as a casual job is counted as employed . This is good right ? You keep believing this and wait and see the real outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsindecision Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Exactly why we are heading to Oz - seriously though we live in what I call the best part of the UK in Cornwall and its alarming how things have changed even in this part of Britain. You should all be aware of the austerity measures in the UK. This can only make things worse resulting in cuts and companies closing down, especially on the jobs front, causing high unemployment especially as youth unemployment is an all time high with many youngsters that have never worked at all and don't want to work choosing to live on state benefit. Many low paid jobs are now taken by Eastern Europeans since the changes in the EU, if you can, take a look at the channel 4 documentary 'The Hotel' which gives some idea of the problem. With many big companies relying on Eastern European labour. We have lived in Cornwall for over 15 years, I felt restricted in my job so I went to work back in the Midlands, the worse decision of my life and now have work away in London and your quote on social life is correct, there is a big drugs problem in the UK, I just think many choose not to see it. We are not heading to Oz with Rose tinted spectacles either, and neither should anyone returning to the UK remembering how things used to be especially if it has been some time since visiting the UK. I understand that Oz it is not for everyone, in fact we have even seen people move to Cornwall and not like it and return back 'up country' I know people miss families which seems to be the main factor, or missing the green and pleasant land but one thread I read quoted 'Missing M&S and Boots' which is just laughable. Oz has extremely high youth unemployment, a serious drug culture, extremely high mental heath problems and youth suicide, crime and lack of opportunity job wise. Go to Oz because you want to experience a different way of life and have a new experience - don't leave because you think the Uk is crap - everywhere has its problems and if you can seriously get your head around that then you might not be disappointed when you see the faults in ozzie life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Don't you think that is going on everywhere, it certainly is here in the privatized correctional industry Like i said our decisions are varied and should be respected in the same way that Brits returning home don't post these "Stories" in the welcome forum for Brits going to Oz. Just dont need it to be honest, especially from someone who moves back to the UK, without a job to a place that resembles downtown Beruit Your wrong about the private prisons in Australia, there pay is better than the government jobs, i have tried to get in 3 prisons and could probably have managed it, but they wanted me to emigrate first, but i won't do that unless they offer the job first. As for the comment about part time jobs, most new jobs created here in the uk are low paid part time jobs, my son went for a job at Halfords they were advertising for two part time posts, 7 and 15 hours, on the minimum wage and over 100 people applied for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunni1234 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Oz has extremely high youth unemployment, a serious drug culture, extremely high mental heath problems and youth suicide, crime and lack of opportunity job wise. Go to Oz because you want to experience a different way of life and have a new experience - don't leave because you think the Uk is crap - everywhere has its problems and if you can seriously get your head around that then you might not be disappointed when you see the faults in ozzie life. Have to agree with these comments. OZ has the worlds highest gambling problems in the world. Suicide rates are higher in OZ than UK (check out the world health organisation) . I like OZ, it has it's good points. But can't ignore the fact it has some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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