Jo_uktooz Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 It certainly seems that people are beginning to take notice of the huge injustice that has been done to these people,some of whom,through no fault of their own have had their dreams placed on hold and lives thrown into turmoil only to have some people on this thread tell them to 'suck it up" and 'take some responsibility". One can only hope that the spotlight of media exposure will shine sufficiently brightly on the minister that he realises that his actions recently have resulted in significant distress to many people and that he is risking damaging Australias reputation as a country where everyone is entitled to a fair go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Not so fast guys, yes there are comments there but ABC Radio National programs don't have significant penetration and sadly it's unlikely that the Minister will read them, or at least not without also reading a large number of comments from people wanting to restrict population growth here. See The National Interest - Have Your Say . Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKlaut Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Not so fast guys, yes there are comments there but ABC Radio National programs don't have significant penetration and sadly it's unlikely that the Minister will read them, or at least not without also reading a large number of comments from people wanting to restrict population growth here. See The National Interest - Have Your Say . Cheers, George Lombard Yes, George, we know that but something small is better than nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Jamie, Gill et al. You won't believe it. I posted some thoughts and suggestions on ABC's The National Interest feedback page after Friday's programme. I have just received an email from the presenter, Peter Mares, asking if they can be used on their site. Oh how I hope Chris Evans is on this weeks programme and not one of his side-kicks. You have done a wonderful job getting this issue into the public arena and I can't wait for this Friday. Keep up the magnificent work - you deserve a medal. Cheers, Kazza Hi Kazza The credit for getting Peter Mares interested in this issue belongs entirely to Jamie Smith, Mark Webster, the lady who was interviewed along with him and all of you - the affected visa applicants who wrote and told Peter Mares all the differing ways in which the latest changes affect each of you. I am delighted to hear that Peter Mares wants to highlight your own trauma in the next programme. It is traumatic to think that your daughter will soon be with you permanently, then to be told it won't happen soon and then to be told it could be another 3 to 5 years if ever. That is an appalling thing to do to an Aussie parent. I'm off to read all the comments for now, but once again, VERY WELL DONE to all of you! Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freaks Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hi Kazza The credit for getting Peter Mares interested in this issue belongs entirely to Jamie Smith, Mark Webster, the lady who was interviewed along with him and all of you - the affected visa applicants who wrote and told Peter Mares all the differing ways in which the latest changes affect each of you. I am delighted to hear that Peter Mares wants to highlight your own trauma in the next programme. It is traumatic to think that your daughter will soon be with you permanently, then to be told it won't happen soon and then to be told it could be another 3 to 5 years if ever. That is an appalling thing to do to an Aussie parent. I'm off to read all the comments for now, but once again, VERY WELL DONE to all of you! Cheers Gill Good stuff! We to had our comments published to so, we will just have to wait and see if Mr Evans makes an apperance on Sunday........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hi Freaks http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/71907-protest-visit-australia-house-london.html Please see the thread above. Those of us in the UK could give Peter Mares a hand if we can get enough people together for a meaningful mass visit to Oz House in London sometime soon, it seems to me? I don't know how widely everyone is scattered and who could get time off on a weekday etc. Whaddya reckon, please? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Now Gill as it so happens I am going to a refugee fund-raising dinner tomorrow night where the Minister will be in attendance - and I think it's important to note that he does currently have much larger issues on his hands - but I'll be happy to hand over a statement on behalf of the aggrieved if anyone has the time to come up with a set of principles. The way it works is that I'm sure that he'll flick it to Peter Speldewinde as soon as possible for comment but it ensures that he is aware of the grievance and the complaint. This doesn't pre-empt further action, but should put it on his agenda. Of course if the Minister doesn't show then I'll give it to whichever substitute turns up and lodge with him formally in any event. Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi George That's a kind offer. I would ask the Minister what they plan to do about the people whose cases should have been put on hold Janauary 1 but were mistakenly processed by DIAC with subsequent costs being incurred by applicant before being put on hold indefinitely. I would also ask why DIAC cannot offer refunds to show some goodwill by the Minister. Any why processing times are not accurately displayed on the website, as the usual X months from allocation to a CO is totally misleading when some might never have a CO allocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Jamie, Yes that's probably all that I'll get to tell him personally but if you have any idea about presenting the accumulated points of view including the Peter Meares stuff then I'm happy to do the printing at this end. Also important to mention that anyone who wants a reply needs to give contact details - which I'll of course treat confidentially - and that it might be a good idea to have a name for the group, perhaps a good opportunity for PiO to badge itself. Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Print this and take it to slip in his pocket, with a headng that his policy wonks are getting too elitist in their targeting and it's not creating enough ordinary jobs for Australians NZ 'needs more than high-skill migrants' NZ 'needs more than high-skill migrants' - Immigration - NZ Herald News A focus on attracting highly skilled immigrants will not significantly benefit the New Zealand economy, which needs immigrants with varying skill levels to grow, Department of Labour research has found. The study, Economic Impacts of Immigration, issued yesterday, says its modelling experiments "do not support arguments in favour of an entirely high-skill focused or targeted immigration inflow". Under the skilled migrant policy, would-be migrants are given additional points if they have skills to work in industries facing shortages. "Such targeting does not appear to significantly increase the overall benefits to increased immigration flows. When an economy grows, labour is required at all levels," the report said. In a scenario where the composition of additional labour was specified in favour of particular higher-skilled categories through policy change or external impetus, the study found that it resulted in GDP being just 0.1 per cent higher than when no specifications were made. It also found that the benefit to the export sector was 8.3 per cent above baseline, and not as large as the 8.5 per cent recorded where the inflow was "demand determined" rather than policy specified. "This illustrates how the export sector requires semi-skilled, as well as skilled, labour resources in order to expand its activities." The study, which also looked at the impact of additional influences that immigrants have on productivity and trade, found that increased immigration reduces production costs, improves the competitiveness of New Zealand goods and services benefiting exporters and benefits domestic investment and consumer spending. More immigrants could be good for the Government's coffers, because it would result in higher Government revenues, improving its balance and outweighing the impact on spending. "The results combine to improve both real gross domestic product [GDP] and real GDP per capita." If the annual net inflow of 20,000 migrants was sustained, New Zealand would have a population of 4.5 million and annual GDP of $248 billion in 2021. It would also yield an extra $28 billion in annual GDP over the period because the inflow of migrants at this level was estimated to be worth around $1.9 billion per year to GDP and $1000 per capita GDP in 2021. Doubling the net inflow to 40,000 would add 6.1 per cent to the population to 4.8 million in 2021 and result in a 7.6 per cent rise in GDP. But zero immigration could have a disastrous effect on the economy. "This scenario gives a New Zealand resident population of 4.1 million in 2021, 9.6 per cent below the 2021 baseline population ... the labour available is 10.9 per cent below the baseline figure." Stopping immigration would also bring GDP in 2021 at 11.3 per cent below that of baseline, with GDP per capita at 1.8 per cent or $1000 below the baseline. The report said if policies were to target particular skills, they should focus on skills with significant potential to improve overall productivity. 2021 FORECASTS Immigration's impact on the economy. At current level of 20,000 annual net inflow: * Worth $1.9 billion per year to GDP and $1000 per capita GDP. * NZ population will increase by 437,000 to 4.5 million and annual GDP to $248 billion. * Will yield an extra $28 billion in annual GDP by 2021. Doubling immigration level to 40,000 annual net inflow: * Real GDP will be 7.6 per cent higher, and GDP per capita up 1.5 per cent. * Export volumes will rise 8.5 per cent. * Available labour will be increased by 7.4 per cent. Zero immigration: * NZ population will fall 9.6 per cent below baseline figure of 4.5 million. * GDP will fall 11.3 per cent, and GDP per capita to drop 1.8 per cent or $1000. * Available labour will fall 10.9 per cent. * Export sector will be most affected, with export volumes dropping 12.9 per cent. (Baseline level interpreted as scenario with no major policy changes) Source - Department of Labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 That's a good find, Jamie. Methinks the Minister is trying to almost micro-engineer too precise an outcome - he should recognise that skilled people bring many attributes to Australia, not just an ability to fill skilled vacancies that have been identified by most likely inaccurate research of the employment market in Australia. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaust Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 At another level is asking Minister why do Australian politicians, media (and closet "white Australia" protagonists) have to use migrants, refugees, temporary workers, dodgy population growth, overseas students etc. as a divisive political wedge issue or kicking bag, seemingly unchallenged, without any mention of the positives? Politicans and media have helped mislead normally tolerant Australians into dribbling at the mouth in some mindless fervour saying all sorts of things about refugees, e.g. "throw them back in" .... that they may regret later.... Well, today's media has been very coy as several boat people have now drowned ........ The real issue, is that it is an issue at all...... why do we see this obsession with story after story containing "putative lies", coincidentally a technique refined by a littel guy with a little moustache in 1930s Germany, against thsoe wishing to settle in Oz? Oz politicans could try leading, rather than following and being informed by the opinions of a bunch of bigots in marginal electorates and related demographers and environmentalists.... Good luck with Evans, but a colleague of his was a colleague of mine some years ago, happy to complain bitterly in private about treatment of refugees, migrants etc., but gagged in public by party line i.e. do not upset the bigots because they will vote coalition..... Hard to imagine that migration, refugees, multiculturalism and related before the Howard years was a bipartisan issue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 ABC reporter Peter Mares has published this well informed article: A blockage in the skilled migration pipeline | Inside Story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Jamie, Print this and take it to slip in his pocket, with a headng that his policy wonks are getting too elitist in their targeting and it's not creating enough ordinary jobs for Australians NZ 'needs more than high-skill migrants' Jamie, don't you like our good fella George? For you'll be setting him up mate! You want to know what the Minister could answer to what the Kiwis are doing? I'll give you one version anyway, He'll first of all, possibly get a funny look on his face, like:jiggy: And then he could say, " you do know about all the sheep over there don't you?" And then it could be " you wouldn't think they need to build up those All Blacks anymore would you?" Come to think of it George, maybe that's a new strategy I can discuss in the Cabinet, how to wallop the All Blacks, maybe a job for The Gnome there for he's pretty much into anything Green and Gold. But hey George, by george ol fella, what's with all those Kiwis coming over here every year, something like 30,000 a year reckon it's a great place to call home! Yes Jamie, the Kiwis may have their ideas and for good reason like that 30,000 annual exodus and then they do think and talk little differently. Yep ol son, our future could be more with that facilitation contract rather than the fantasy of titillation. Meanwhile, there could be a stand up knock them down comedy sketch somewhere here for George and the Minister to do a Yes Minister Skit to raise some more funds for charity. Just do a couple of run throughs with him first George to get the lines right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lombard Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 No I took it that despite all the talk - "what would you say to the Minister", Peter Meares, demonstrations in London, new timeline lists etc, there was not much interest in actually taking these issues up with the Minister in any constructive way. Still four hours Jamie if you did want to collate something concrete. And no, NZ migration research is not given much credence here unfortunately. Jamie of all people would be aware of that. Cheers, George Lombard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Not really wanderer. The NZ system is a self levelling system where over time the market learns what the points requirements are doing, going up or down on a fortnightly basis. More applications then follow, or don't, as supply and demand requires. It's an uncertain process for the applicant and it costs $300 +/- every 3 months to stay in the system. The history of points set for approval tells people their chances of being approved within 3 months. I think you'll find the Minister watches the NZ system and wants to bororow parts of it that match supply with demand. Jokes about kiwis are enjoyed more by the insecure and the great unwashed, mostly Queenslanders ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 George, I think the story is becoming one of the Minister and DIAC being too worried about political sensitivities (boat people) and stuffing up the more important movement of skilled people at a time that they need to be planning to coming here. Our economy is in recovery and skills shortages are resuming, and many vacancies in regional areas were never offset by the GFC. People in the system from some time ago evidently don't have the "right" skills for now, as evinced by policy changes and MODL/CSL changes, and might never get through. People with the "right" skills now can't come over now due to backlogs, at a time when they are needed now (otherwise MODL etc would not still exist). Perth business skills office for business visas has had a 50% reduction in manpower as people move out to refugee processing and other places sensitive to the Government. Business investment via 163 etc is usually $250,000 and 2.5 new jobs created, yet Perth is now s l o w to process these economy-growing visas taking nearly a year. The total outcome is now a cherry pick of the most easy to politically justify medical staff and a few tradies. The NZ report linked elsewhere and your own analysis shows cherry picking is NOT a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzarazza Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 But hey George, by george ol fella, what's with all those Kiwis coming over here every year, something like 30,000 a year reckon it's a great place to call home! Yes Jamie, the Kiwis may have their ideas and for good reason like that 30,000 annual exodus and then they do think and talk little differently. I wonder how many of those 30,000 originally came from places other than NZ, then hopped in to Australia for nothing more than the price of an airfare. I know of at least one, my brother. And he knows of many, many others. Just think how many more there will be in the near future. All that visa application money going to NZ instead of DIAC! There must be hundreds considering it. Not least those that would go the 475 route. If you were that desperate to get out of the UK, why wouldn't you go to NZ for 5 years and get the passport, when Chris Evans is saying you might have to wait another 3-4 years in the UK then another 2-3 yrs to get Permanent Residency in Oz. The other thing New Zealand do better than Australia - they allow parents to sponsor adult children in the Family Stream, not the skilled migrant stream. Overseas adult children of Australian citizens have to have a sponsoring parent AND a skill (this in itself is no bad thing but to separate families for soooooo long is unforgivable). Shame on Australia and it's so-called family values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 A synopsis sent you by email, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlino Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Go Jamie Go!! Get that man a beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Go Jamie Go!! Get that man a beer! Delivered in plentiful quantity and in refrigerated packaging to Level 23, HWT Tower, Southbank, Melbourne, before Christmas please (gasp). No warm UK beer PLEASE! Cider is Ok... :wubclub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kazzarazza, I know you have a particular situation to deal with and that's not easy at all but government regulations in any area will never cope with so many individual situations, and re I wonder how many of those 30,000 originally came from places other than NZ, then hopped in to Australia for nothing more than the price of an airfare. I'd reckon very few in the greater scheme of things and it's not all about collecting fees, an illusion sadly created. There must be hundreds considering it. .......2-3 yrs to get Permanent Residency in Oz. They get a reciprocal residency right here but not PR nor citizenship unless they go through a PR visa application process. The other thing New Zealand do better than Australia - they allow parents to sponsor adult children in the Family Stream, I suppose the Australian line of thought is that at some stage in life even children are seen to be and make adult decisions independently about their own lives just as emigrating parents will. And Jamie, Comparing one country with another is a bit pork and cheese or lets say lamb and bananas NZ has a much smaller population, and they have done a big change for fear of a flood from a particular country that had started. They run a front door approach of put in an expression of interest and we'll look at whether you get an invite to apply, easier to manage with far smaller numbers. I don't feel Oz is all that desperate to follow suit. Superb prosubit related to gorgeonsubway by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Smith Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 And Jamie, Comparing one country with another is a bit pork and cheese or lets say lamb and bananas NZ has a much smaller population, and they have done a big change for fear of a flood from a particular country that had started. They run a front door approach of put in an expression of interest and we'll look at whether you get an invite to apply, easier to manage with far smaller numbers. I don't feel Oz is all that desperate to follow suit. Superb prosubit related to gorgeonsubway by any chance? yes wanderer but its more interesting for Australian Govts to consider how it works because the less attractive (visa wise) country has the harder criteria in many ways, and they still meet quota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzarazza Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I know you have a particular situation to deal with and that's not easy at all but governement regulations in any area will never cope with so many individual situations... They get a reciprocal residency right here but not PR nor citizenship unless they go through a PR visa application process... I suppose the Australian line of thought is that at some stage in life even children are seen to be and make adult decisions independently about their own lives just as emigrating parents will. Wanderer. The point of your post is???? 1. They coped perfectly well until early 2009 before the tinkering started. 2. Yes, I know NZ citizens get reciprocal residency rights and not PR - I don't think that was ever questioned was it? But it does allow them to live AND work here whilst their PR application goes through. It wouldn't matter to them if the process took 5 years or more. They've got what they want - to live and work in Australia. 3. Can't work out what you're trying to say here either. Not questioning the ability to make adult decisions. The point is that when these decisions are made, you expect the rules of the day to carry through to completion. Kazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 No I took it that despite all the talk - "what would you say to the Minister", Peter Meares, demonstrations in London, new timeline lists etc, there was not much interest in actually taking these issues up with the Minister in any constructive way. Still four hours Jamie if you did want to collate something concrete. And no, NZ migration research is not given much credence here unfortunately. Jamie of all people would be aware of that. Cheers, George Lombard Not so, George. As it happened I was simply too tired to draft anything for you then and there on Monday night and had no time to do it first thing yesterday morning because of other commitments. It seemed to me that you know what issues the British applicants are complaining about anyway. British clients of your own are caught up in the mess. But it certainly wasn't lack of interest on my part or that of our members. It was lack of having six brains and six pairs of hands so as to multitask more efficiently. Did the Minister show for the dinner? Diid you get a chance to talk with him? If so, were you able to get him to say anything meaningful? Cheers Gill PS - Hope the food was good. In the UK these bunfights nearly always involve tepid chicken breast or tepid lamb chops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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