veryhopeful Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hi there, wondered if anyone else is in this situation / has been through this and can you advise how things turned out for you? Situation: Currently have a leave to remove application in to the courts in the UK to remove 3 kids to migrate. Going through Cafcass etc at the moment. I have perm skilled visa, my son has visa, twin girls dont have visas yet but will do as soon as the court gives permission which I have been advised that it is likely that they will. Father is opposing removal hence the courts involvement. Father is insisting that should we be successful in the application he wants the kids to fly back to the UK as "often as possible" - at my expense of course. I have suggested that I pay to fly him out and he comes to stay with us, thats then all as cheap as possible for everyone and he comes to see the kids in their home. Now I think I am being really reasonable. I can see why he might not want to stay in my house and tbh I would rather he didnt, however I genuinely think its the best for the kids to stay put and for him to do the travelling and jet lag etc, kids are 6 and 2 and 2 so it seems really unfair to make them go back and forth. I dont have any family or any reason whatsoever to come back here so I am really hoping that the courts dont order that we have to do this. I am british but want to migrate permanently and settle without going backwards and forwards for years to come. In case it matters, he left me after having an affair, he broke up the family and prevented us from going to oz, he has the same visa expiring at the same time as mine, so could come with us but just doesnt want to. So I am just doing on my own what we were going to do as a family. My question really is, what contact arrangements have courts ordered for anyone else? Or what works for other families? I am looking for sensible suggestions that have worked before to put forward so that I can be as reasonable and sensible as possible without having to enforce the kids to fly back "as often as possible!" Has anyone else been in this situation, how do things work for you? Thank you very much for any replies, trying to resolve this as best I can and there dont seem to be too many people been through it! Kind regards Stephanie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I don't know what arrangements courts have ordered, however, your offer sounds reasonable. I would also point out that you'll do weekly phone calls or skype, postcards, birthday and christmas cards from the kids, you'll send copies of school reports etc. I would point out that as the children are of a young age and therefore would not be able to travel to the UK unattended, therefore, the cost to you will be quite expensive (check out the cost of flights to the UK from Aus), and that you may only be able to afford to do that once every 3 - 4 years (certainly as the children get older the cost will increase). Hoever, you are willing to pay for your ex partner to travel to Oz every 1 - 2 years. If you have a job to go to in Oz, tell the court what your salary will be and estimated out goings .... show them that for you to pay for the children to visit UK as Often as possible would actually mean a gap of a few years. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 thanks for that, I have offered all that you suggested, msn chat, skype, letters phone calls the lot, PLUS two flights per year for two years for him (or a total of four flights at his convenience), accommodation on arrival for the duration of the stay. I have checked out the flight prices, its almost 5k gbp for a return flight for all four of us, and as he is saying that he can not afford to fly just himself out or provide accommodation on his salary of £42000 per year I am not sure how exactly I am supposed to fly all of us back "as often as possible" when I dont have a job to go to and currently earn £100 per week here in the uk. Finances are not a problem so dont consider that as an issue I have money to take to cover our start up costs until I get a job, but with three yong kids its not going to be a super fantastic job and I may well go self employed but you get myy drift, he earns loads and is pleading poverty, but I have to stump up the flight costs which I just couldnt do like you say any more than a couple of years apart, if that! thanks for your reply Anyone else? Really interested in what has been ordered by the court as it is going down this route and he is not going to back down so we will get to a contested final hearing and it will come down to the order that is made, Anyone??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hi Stephanie The courts understand that it is not viable for you to keep flying your family across the world, plus this would interfere with their new life in Australia as the only time they could come would be school holidays and lets face it, it is a long way to come just for a week or two, so the only viable option would be the summer school holidays, but then it is Christmas here and they will want to stay in Australia for Christmas. What I would suggest is that they keep regular contact via skype, webcam (even say to the courts you will by your ex a webcam if needed) emails, letters and that you will go back once every two years (if your employment permits, again it is a long way to send the children alone and they are to young but you may not be able to get leave from work) and that he comes every alternate year and recommend that you would pay for his flights, although if he does want to see them he is more than welcome to visit at any other time at his own expense. Please feel free to pm me if you wish to chat further. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazney64 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have only one child, but the arrangements are as follows. Ex to cease maitanainace when we go and use that to visit us, as he has a new family. Every Xmas i return him to UK for a stay with his dad and other extended family eg Nan etc. I had to get my dad as a guantee to say i was saving now to pay for these flights, this is until he is 16, from the age of 12 he can fly with escort, however would not be comfortable with this until about 15 i think. However you have more than one child so this would be a consideration as it is not in the childrens best interest to have you stressed about finiances for flights etc.. and going back and forward. It may be that this arrangement of your ex visiting could be extended to them visiting UK when old enough to travel with an escort. As others have mentioned skype, letters, emails webcam are available to assist in maiatianing the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 thanks that is useful to know although like you say, one child is a bit different to three. Dont you miss your LO at xmas? I would say that would be the time of year I would most want them with me!! Does your ex come over at all? and if he does, where does he stay? I am worried they might order that the kids have to go to a hotel if he finally does agree to come over and even that is not really acceptable I dont think. thanks for replies so far, its helping, any more???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazney64 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Has not happened yet. Still waiting for visa, my son will be 16 before we get there lol so may not have too. When it was all agreed yes i knew would be gutted over the xmas period, but as i planned to come back to the UK to stay with family, i would still see him on Xmas day etc.. He is 12 now and although xmas is great, not the same as they were little, he puts in his order of thing he wants now, so a lot of the element of surprise of opening his gifts has gone. He opens his presents, then disappears to the PS3 until lunch lol. He has always spent some part with his dad on xmas day (he cant wait for his presents) then goes to stay overnight for boxing day. So xmas goes quite quick for me really. As he gets older you do let go a little. Although i know if i had to let him go without me i would be devastated. At least me travelling back with him i know would only be a maxiumin of 20mins away. As i say though we are still trying to get visas, so he may well be 14 nearly 15 before we get there, and have more independance and i in turn will have learnt to let him have this independance to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 sorry, missed that crucial bit that you are still waiting doh! I know your lad is older but how much weight did cafcass give to his opinion? did they spend long talking to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazney64 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 sorry, missed that crucial bit that you are still waiting doh! I know your lad is older but how much weight did cafcass give to his opinion? did they spend long talking to him? he had two cafcass workers, the first went off on long term sick after all his interviews, which consisted of me taking him to the most unfirendly office. He met with the worker three times then the man met with me and my hubby. The second Cafcass worker spoke with him at my home and his dads home. My son refused to choose to stay or go, he could not make that decision. The judge was surprised, i was not, he loves his dad and by saying he wants to go would appear to his dad that he did not care for him. In his mind, However on the visists the Cafcass worker deemed that my sons attachment was stronger with me, and i would be able to comfort and reassure him during the move to OZ. She was also rest assured that i would honour and work hard to make arrangments to maintain contact. The worker deemed that if refusal was made it could have an adverse effect on me (Subconciously) and my son relationship due to emotional investment i had put into the move. So although my son implied that he wished things were to remain the same, they gave me permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryhopeful Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 wow thank you, that has reassured me somewhat, I know my son wants to go, and has told this to the cafcass worker (in fact today), however reading on netmums there is a long thread regarding how cafcass are currently appearing to be in favour of the father no matter how deadbeat and this has really worried me. I know my son gave his dad 8/10 today but me 10/10 and I know he loves me dearly and me him, his dad has really messed up but he is still his dad (who is bribing him with large lego sets at the moment, every contact visit involves about £50 of toys) so for him to not be swayed is quite something in my opinion. I am not applying to take the kids away lightly in fact its the dad who is refusing to come although he is in possession of the correct visa (dont shout at me he is a fool I know) I wish he would change his mind and come but I dont think he is going to. So thank you so much for the information, that is really priceless that he was unsure yet still you were given permission. My son is sure although only 6. thank you :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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