Skilled independent Visa for secondary school teacher

[ScotErin]

Hello all, 

I am hoping to move to Aus permanently and have been pursuing this dream for many years. I have secured a place to complete my PGDE in Scotland in order to teach in secondary schools. The PGDE is followed by the Probationary year in which I am guaranteed a teaching position for one academic year teaching my core subject in a secondary school in Scotland. I will be teaching Modern Studies, which is a Social Science/Humanities subject. The PGDE is equivalent to the PGCE in England, and the Probation year is equivalent to what they call the NQT year in England (just for clarity).

I am leaning towards the independent visa as from what I have heard not many schools (particularly state schools where I hope to work) are willing or eager to sponsor foreigners. So I feel I would be best placed to have my visa secured and the appropriate certification for the state prior to making applications to work. Correct me if I am wrong on this please!  

So – onto the questions. I gather that for maximum points on an independent or even a nominated visa I will want to have at the very least 3 years of professional experience. I wondered if anyone has a similar background – was your probationary/ NQT year classed as experience?

Secondly, I have read online in several places that the application can take up to two years (for an EOI). If this is the case, can I apply prior to having the minimum experience on the basis that I will have those years behind me by the time I receive a decision on my EOI? So, for example – apply after my probationary year but accepting I will not be moving for a good while and after I have gained more experience.

I hope this makes sense, I just want to make it clear I fully respect the migration process and feel I have skills that would prove beneficial to Australia.

Thank you for taking the time to read my query!

Erin  

[Quoll]

Just to clarify - you say the PGDE is the same as the PGCE - does that mean it was undertaken at a University and not "on the job" training? If it was Uni based then you should be OK, but if it was school based then you won't be accepted as a teacher which requires 4 years Uni based study.

In general, experience is counted as work post qualification and it's the work you have done when you apply for the visa so you can't apply before you've achieved it. 

No, you're not likely to find a government school sponsor, there are already too many teachers for the places that people want to live and work in so it's not likely they will be bringing in foreigners to fill the positions so a PR visa will be best. Once you're here you will have to sell your skills in competition with everyone else but be prepared to go into the country to get your foot in the door. It also helps to develop more than one string to your bow with respect to subject area. Not quite sure where "Modern Studies" fits into the Victorian curriculum but if you can spread across curriculum areas you'd be more competitive https://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au

[Ausvisitor]

It's going to be difficult. Scotland is one of the few countries that takes Modern Studies seriously.

England's equivalent is General Studies, which is generally seen as a bit of a joke and any teacher is expected to be able to cover the course (there certainly aren't specialist General Studies teachers in English schools)

What do you have highers/A levels in, it might be worth getting teaching experience in something like Maths or a science so you have more to offer than just Modern Studies (most AUS schools want a teacher who can do more that one thing anyway).

It's worth noting that while General Studies (English and Welsh equivalent of Modern Studies) is an A Level subject almost all English universities (Russell equivalent certainly) do not count it as a "entrance" subject when making offers.

[Ausvisitor]

Just now, Ausvisitor said:

It's going to be difficult. Scotland is one of the few countries that takes Modern Studies seriously.

England's equivalent is General Studies, which is generally seen as a bit of a joke and any teacher is expected to be able to cover the course (there certainly aren't specialist General Studies teachers in English schools)

What do you have highers/A levels in, it might be worth getting teaching experience in something like Maths or a science so you have more to offer than just Modern Studies (most AUS schools want a teacher who can do more that one thing anyway).

It's worth noting that while General Studies (English and Welsh equivalent of Modern Studies) is an A Level subject almost all English universities (Russell equivalent certainly) do not count it as a "entrance" subject when making offers.

I'm not saying England is right to ignore Modern Studies, just that they do.

[Marisawright]

11 hours ago, ScotErin said:

I am hoping to move to Aus permanently and have been pursuing this dream for many years. I have secured a place to complete my PGDE in Scotland....

I recall advising you, on an earlier post, to book a one-off consultation with a migration agent to map out a proper path to migration.  Did you follow that advice? 

I ask because I think your chances of migrating as a teacher of Modern Studies is somewhere between nil and zero, so if you have spent years planning, I wonder who advised you to follow that path. 

The problem is that Australia doesn't need more teachers in the capital cities.  They need teachers willing to work in regional areas.  There, many schools are too small to have specialist teachers for every subject.  They'll have specialist teachers for all the essential subjects, like science, maths, English, foreign languages - but those teachers then have to cover all the "non-essential" subjects.   When we were living in country Australia, my husband (Chemistry and Physics teacher) was even teaching history--for which he failed his O level when he was at school in Scotland!

I can only repeat, book a consultation with a good agent like Suncoast Migration or Go Matilda.  They will give you an accurate picture of your chances.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

11 hours ago, ScotErin said:

I have read online in several places that the application can take up to two years (for an EOI). If this is the case, can I apply prior to having the minimum experience on the basis that I will have those years behind me by the time I receive a decision on my EOI?

You must have the minimum experience BEFORE you submit your application.  Worth mentioning also that if you are going for the 189, you will need a minimum of 95 points to stand any chance whatsoever of being selected.  The 189 is fiercely competitive and there are so many applicants with 95+ points, no one else has stood a chance for several years now.

One thing to consider:  don't confuse "being eligible to get a visa" with "being eligible to teach in Australia".  They are two completely different things.

For instance, the Immigration department insists on a minimum number of years' experience before you can even apply for a visa. However to get registration in Australia and be allowed to teach, you only need the qualification, you don't need the experience.   So you could do your probation year, get registration in your chosen Australian state, then get a WHV (working holiday visa), and spend two years gaining experience in Australian schools.  You could then apply for a permanent visa after that.  I still think your choice of subject will result in failure, but perhaps with a rethink on subjects you might stand a chance.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

I'm not saying England is right to ignore Modern Studies, just that they do.

And I dont think Australia does it at all - HASS or Humanities (or whatever the state may decide to call it) may cover it I suppose.  I agree with you, try and find another major in the Maths/Science area would be much more competitive.

[paulhand]

19 hours ago, ScotErin said:

for maximum points on an independent or even a nominated visa I will want to have at the very least 3 years of professional experience.

For maximum points you will need at least 8 years relevant experience. 
 

19 hours ago, ScotErin said:

can I apply prior to having the minimum experience 

From a skills assessment/application perspective, there is no minimum experience requirement for a qualified secondary school teacher.

Edited March 11, 2022 by paulhand

[ScotErin]

12 hours ago, Quoll said:

Just to clarify - you say the PGDE is the same as the PGCE - does that mean it was undertaken at a University and not "on the job" training? If it was Uni based then you should be OK, but if it was school based then you won't be accepted as a teacher which requires 4 years Uni based study.

In general, experience is counted as work post qualification and it's the work you have done when you apply for the visa so you can't apply before you've achieved it. 

No, you're not likely to find a government school sponsor, there are already too many teachers for the places that people want to live and work in so it's not likely they will be bringing in foreigners to fill the positions so a PR visa will be best. Once you're here you will have to sell your skills in competition with everyone else but be prepared to go into the country to get your foot in the door. It also helps to develop more than one string to your bow with respect to subject area. Not quite sure where "Modern Studies" fits into the Victorian curriculum but if you can spread across curriculum areas you'd be more competitive https://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au

Hello! Yes the PGDE is a post graduate diploma that is completed after a four year honours undergrad degree and is completed at university, it can also be completed to masters level which I hope to do. I hoped to move to a regional area because as you say there is more demand for teachers, and I am happy to live just about anywhere to be honest in order to get my foot in the door.. Thank you for your response  

11 hours ago, Ausvisitor said:

It's going to be difficult. Scotland is one of the few countries that takes Modern Studies seriously.

England's equivalent is General Studies, which is generally seen as a bit of a joke and any teacher is expected to be able to cover the course (there certainly aren't specialist General Studies teachers in English schools)

What do you have highers/A levels in, it might be worth getting teaching experience in something like Maths or a science so you have more to offer than just Modern Studies (most AUS schools want a teacher who can do more that one thing anyway).

It's worth noting that while General Studies (English and Welsh equivalent of Modern Studies) is an A Level subject almost all English universities (Russell equivalent certainly) do not count it as a "entrance" subject when making offers.

Yes absolutely - Modern Studies is similar in subject matter to Social Science or Politics that may be taught elsewhere but it is unfortunate for my chances that it is not an in demand subject! I would not be able to gain experience in a STEM subject as I have no qualifications but I hope to teach other humanities such as History and Geography which are more broadly taught than my core subject. Thanks!

 

 

[ScotErin]

2 hours ago, paulhand said:

For maximum points you will need at least 8 years relevant experience. 
 

From a skills assessment/application perspective, there is no minimum experience requirement for a qualified secondary school teacher.

Apologies, this was meant to read 'minimum' in the OP. I understand there is no minimum experience for the skills assessment, sorry I may be confused - I meant more for how many points I can claim as less than 1 year experience I thought meant no points claimed.. Thank you for clarifying! 

 

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You must have the minimum experience BEFORE you submit your application.  Worth mentioning also that if you are going for the 189, you will need a minimum of 95 points to stand any chance whatsoever of being selected.  The 189 is fiercely competitive and there are so many applicants with 95+ points, no one else has stood a chance for several years now.

One thing to consider:  don't confuse "being eligible to get a visa" with "being eligible to teach in Australia".  They are two completely different things.

For instance, the Immigration department insists on a minimum number of years' experience before you can even apply for a visa. However to get registration in Australia and be allowed to teach, you only need the qualification, you don't need the experience.   So you could do your probation year, get registration in your chosen Australian state, then get a WHV (working holiday visa), and spend two years gaining experience in Australian schools.  You could then apply for a permanent visa after that.  I still think your choice of subject will result in failure, but perhaps with a rethink on subjects you might stand a chance.

Hello, thanks for your reply - thats good to know. I am planning on using a migration agent but closer to the time as this is likely to be a good few years away and visa requirements may change/ I may change haha... I just want to explore my general options now so I can best plan, consider if it is even worth pursuing and best prepare myself to make the best possible visa application I can. 

In terms of WHV, I have considered that over the years but it does not suit my family needs so I am looking for a more permanent solution - even if it takes me much longer. I am more than happy to live in a regional area rather than the cities. I will definately explore getting experience over the coming years in more popular subject areas to better my chances - thank you very much for your advice!  

[ScotErin]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I ask because I think your chances of migrating as a teacher of Modern Studies is somewhere between nil and zero, so if you have spent years planning, I wonder who advised you to follow that path. 

I will be teaching modern studies because that is the only subject I am currently able to complete a PGDE in. I have a degree in Social Science and a masters in Helathcare Leaderhsip so my university credits apply to the PGDE Modern Studies opposed to a more mainstream subject such as Maths/ Science etc. No one advised me to become a teacher in order to move to Australia - I m becoming a teacher because I enjoy working with young people and love the Social Sciences. 

I have worked in other sectors in which my chances of moving to Oz would be even lower so I have focusd on gaining 'professional' qualifications to better my chances. I am trying my best with what I have, I am not an engineer or a tech wizz so I have considered the paths that are even remotely possible for me and are also something I actually want to do! Hence why I am becoming a teacher, it may not be the most in-demand professional right now but its something I can actually be good at and may open a door for me if I focus on being heads above the competition. I appreciate you are being brutally honest but I just wanted to clarify this point. Thanks  

[ScotErin]

Apologies for my typos above haha. Thank you all for your responses, I am going to focus on my career and expanding my experience before getting advice from a migration agent in the future. This has been helpful to ground me a bit, and has encouraged me to think about more about my back up plans as Oz is seeming less and less likely - I will certainly still give it my best shot though! Cheers everyone  

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, ScotErin said:

Hence why I am becoming a teacher, it may not be the most in-demand professional right now but its something I can actually be good at and may open a door for me if I focus on being heads above the competition. 

It's not so much the profession, it's the subject.  If Australia does not want the subject, then it won't matter how stellar your performance is as a teacher. 

This is why I say, book a one-off chat with an agent now. You don't have to hire them to manage your application at this stage, you just want a meeting where they can look at your strategy and confirm that you're on the right track, and perhaps suggest ways you could maximise your chances.

Wouldn't you kick yourself if you wait until you think you're ready to apply for a visa, then the agent says, "If only you'd spoken to us two years ago, we could've advised you to do x, but unfortunately you've wasted that opportunity."

[Marisawright]

I'm actually surprised that there are no opportunities in Healthcare Leadership.

[ScotErin]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It's not so much the profession, it's the subject.  If Australia does not want the subject, then it won't matter how stellar your performance is as a teacher. 

This is why I say, book a one-off chat with an agent now. You don't have to hire them to manage your application at this stage, you just want a meeting where they can look at your strategy and confirm that you're on the right track, and perhaps suggest ways you could maximise your chances.

Wouldn't you kick yourself if you wait until you think you're ready to apply for a visa, then the agent says, "If only you'd spoken to us two years ago, we could've advised you to do x, but unfortunately you've wasted that opportunity."

I see what you mean.. Hopefully can expand on what subjects I can teach. That is a good point - I have considered a few UK/Scotland based migration agents and will get the ball rolling soon!

12 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'm actually surprised that there are no opportunities in Healthcare Leadership.

I know! The issue is I am not clinically trained and I work within a very specific area of health (Forensic Mental Health) so my options are quite limited. Also, when reading up on the skills assessment for a practice/service manager or similar it seems that the applicant needs several years to qualify for the skills assessment .I would be prepared to do this but for the sake of my own mental health I am looking to leave the NHS and the mental health sector in particular. Also, when considering job opportunities in Oz for service managers, I have noted that many require the applicant to have a degree and experience in nursing (and other more specific than this, such as menta health nursing, childrens nursing etc) which is not the case here in NHS Scotland - many managers have no clinical experience. I think essentially the competition is very fierce because there will be many highly skilled and highly qualified nurses/ clinicians who would be a better applicant for a ledership position. 

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, ScotErin said:

I see what you mean.. Hopefully can expand on what subjects I can teach. That is a good point - I have considered a few UK/Scotland based migration agents and will get the ball rolling soon!

Your agent doesn't have to be where you are.  It can all be done over the phone/internet.  A lot of members here have used Suncoast Migration and Go Matilda so they're good choices.

As for the health leadership option - that's another reason to see an agent now.  It may well be that once in Australia, you'd struggle to actually get a job in that field.  But that's totally irrelevant at this point, if you are going for a 189 visa. For that visa, Immigration do not look at how many job opportunities there are.  All they check is, "does this applicant meet all the requirements for this visa?"  and "do they have enough points"?  So your goal right now is to get over that hurdle.  If you can get the visa, then once you arrive in Oz, you can work in any field you like.