Aged parent visa

[Mary Tolfree]

Seeking advice on best visa for my husband (82) and myself (73) to enable us to join our children and grandies in Melbourne permanently. Looking at sub class 103 and 804. We are British. Thanks.

[palaceboy1]

Are your only children in Melbourne ?

 

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, Mary Tolfree said:

Seeking advice on best visa for my husband (82) and myself (73) to enable us to join our children and grandies in Melbourne permanently. Looking at sub class 103 and 804. We are British. Thanks.

Sadly, if you apply for one of those visas today, you'll be waiting about 30 years before it is even granted. Clearly, it'll be a miracle if you're still alive by then.  The contributory parent visas are no better - the waiting time for those is about 18 years, which I think would also be too long for you, and they are significantly more expensive. 

Your only option is to come to Australia as if you're coming on holiday, then once you're here, apply for a 804 visa.  You won't get the visa, of course, but you will get a bridging visa, which allows you to stay in Australia until the 804 is granted (even though that's going to be 30 years).

If that sounds too good to be true, it's because it is.  It's not easy living in Australia on a bridging visa, especially in old age, so you need to do your sums carefully and consider the downsides.  On a bridging visa, you will always be a temporary visitor, not a permanent resident. and that means limited rights. 

Health Care

Firstly, the good news.  If you're currently living in the UK, you'll be able to sign up for Medicare (equivalent of the NHS), and you'll get pretty much the same treatment as Australians.  However the bad news is that unlike the NHS, Medicare doesn't cover everything. 

The main difference is prescriptions, depending how many you have and for what.   In the UK, you get them free.  If you're an Australian pensioner, you'd get them for $5.60 each.  But you will never be an Australian pensioner, you'll be a temporary visitor for the next 30 years, and that means you pay the normal price.  Expect to pay $20 to $50 per item.  Consider how that would add up over a year.

Going to a private specialist or doctor is much more common in Australia than in the UK, but if you're prepared to put up with NHS-like waiting lists, you can stick to the Medicare system and there won't be any additional cost. You may have to keep reminding your Australian GP that you don't want to "go private".  

Speaking of health, you should also consider what you'll do if one of you become frail  in your very old age.  You won't be entitled to any assistance in Australia for things like aged care, nursing homes etc.  Will your children be able to step in and provide full-time care if it's needed?   Bear in mind that if you go back to the UK at that point, you may not be eligible for care there either, because you have to satisfy residency requirements for some benefits.

Other downsides:

Your British state pension will be frozen, the day you leave the UK, at the rate it is now.  You'll never get any more increases or supplements.  And you can't claim any benefits or pensions in Australia. 

You're not allowed to leave Australia, not even to go on holiday.  You'll have to apply for special permission every time you want to leave, and be able to provide solid reasons why you really must travel,, and you must be very careful to arrive back on time or you could find yourself locked out.  

If you want to buy a home, you'll have to apply for special permission from FIRB (for a fee).  Once granted, you will then pay a hefty surcharge on the purchase price of the home (e.g. around $40,000 on a $500,000 home).  

Since you're not migrating, you won't get any customs concessions if you want to ship your household effects to Australia. You'll have to pay full duties.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Marisawright

[LindaH27]

21 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Sadly, if you apply for one of those visas today, you'll be waiting about 30 years before it is even granted. Clearly, it'll be a miracle if you're still alive by then.  The contributory parent visas are no better - the waiting time for those is about 18 years, which I think would also be too long for you, and they are significantly more expensive. 

Your only option is to come to Australia as if you're coming on holiday, then once you're here, apply for a 804 visa.  You won't get the visa, of course, but you will get a bridging visa, which allows you to stay in Australia until the 804 is granted (even though that's going to be 30 years).

If that sounds too good to be true, it's because it is.  It's not easy living in Australia on a bridging visa, especially in old age, so you need to do your sums carefully and consider the downsides.  On a bridging visa, you will always be a temporary visitor, not a permanent resident. and that means limited rights. 

Health Care

Firstly, the good news.  If you're currently living in the UK, you'll be able to sign up for Medicare (equivalent of the NHS), and you'll get pretty much the same treatment as Australians.  However the bad news is that unlike the NHS, Medicare doesn't cover everything. 

The main difference is prescriptions, depending how many you have and for what.   In the UK, you get them free.  If you're an Australian pensioner, you'd get them for $5.60 each.  But you will never be an Australian pensioner, you'll be a temporary visitor for the next 30 years, and that means you pay the normal price.  Expect to pay $20 to $50 per item.  Consider how that would add up over a year.

Going to a private specialist or doctor is much more common in Australia than in the UK, but if you're prepared to put up with NHS-like waiting lists, you can stick to the Medicare system and there won't be any additional cost. You may have to keep reminding your Australian GP that you don't want to "go private".  

Speaking of health, you should also consider what you'll do if one of you become frail  in your very old age.  You won't be entitled to any assistance in Australia for things like aged care, nursing homes etc.  Will your children be able to step in and provide full-time care if it's needed?   Bear in mind that if you go back to the UK at that point, you may not be eligible for care there either, because you have to satisfy residency requirements for some benefits.

Other downsides:

Your British state pension will be frozen, the day you leave the UK, at the rate it is now.  You'll never get any more increases or supplements.  And you can't claim any benefits or pensions in Australia. 

You're not allowed to leave Australia, not even to go on holiday.  You'll have to apply for special permission every time you want to leave, and be able to provide solid reasons why you really must travel,, and you must be very careful to arrive back on time or you could find yourself locked out.  

If you want to buy a home, you'll have to apply for special permission from FIRB (for a fee).  Once granted, you will then pay a hefty surcharge on the purchase price of the home (e.g. around $40,000 on a $500,000 home).  

Since you're not migrating, you won't get any customs concessions if you want to ship your household effects to Australia. You'll have to pay full duties.

 

 

Marisa - people on 103 and 804 cannot legally enrol for Medicare

We don’t yet know what plans there are for 804 once the senate enquiry reports 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by LindaH27

[LindaH27]

Also there’s the fact that two to three years after applying for 804 you will have to pass a medical just to be put in the queue.   At 90 years old now in two years time would you expect to pass a medical ? 
If one fails both fail unfortunately.  

Edited March 1, 2022 by LindaH27

[Marisawright]

40 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

Marisa - people on 103 and 804 cannot legally enrol for Medicare

 

No, but if they are British, they're entitled to reciprocal care.  

Officially, reciprocal care is limited.  However, in practice, we've seen people get things like hip replacements done.  Whether that should be happening is another matter, of course.

[LindaH27]

5 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

No, but if they are British, they're entitled to reciprocal care.  

Officially, reciprocal care is limited.  However, in practice, we've seen people get things like hip replacements done.  Whether that should be happening is another matter, of course.

Yes that’s probably down to staff not understanding their own rules! Happens everywhere - DWP in UK is a case in point. 

Strictly speaking  reciprocal does not cover pre existing conditions. It’s supposed to be for things that actually  happen whilst in Australia - ie essential care. So if someone fell and broke a hip they’d get it replaced but not if aching through pre existing arthritis. 
Alan Collett has an excellent précis here 

https://www.gm-parent-visas.com/bridging-visa-holders-and-medicare-in-australia/

Edited March 1, 2022 by LindaH27

[Johnny Kash]

On 01/03/2022 at 20:22, LindaH27 said:

Also there’s the fact that two to three years after applying for 804 you will have to pass a medical just to be put in the queue.   At 90 years old now in two years time would you expect to pass a medical ? 
If one fails both fail unfortunately.  

This would be my concern.  So let’s say that for whatever reason, one or both parents fail the medical - what happens then ? 

[LindaH27]

40 minutes ago, Johnny Kash said:

This would be my concern.  So let’s say that for whatever reason, one or both parents fail the medical - what happens then ? 

From various posts I’ve read in social media you could be asked to leave within 35 days 

[wrussell]

43 minutes ago, Johnny Kash said:

 This would be my concern.  So let’s say that for whatever reason, one or both parents fail the medical - what happens then ? 

If the parent/s satisfy all the criteria except the public interest (health) criterion and are refused visas there is a way forward.

[LindaH27]

Yes it’s a temporary medical visa for the person who failed - not  a full grant. I don’t know what would happen to the partner if the first person  were to die during the validity of the temporary visa?   

[wrussell]

2 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

Yes it’s a temporary medical visa for the person who failed - not  a full grant. I don’t know what would happen to the partner if the first person  were to die during the validity of the temporary visa?   

Forward the death certificate to immigration and reduce the health insurance to the single rate.

[LindaH27]

But the second person wouldn’t  have a medical case  for that type of visa ? 

[Johnny Kash]

13 hours ago, wrussell said:

If the parent/s satisfy all the criteria except the public interest (health) criterion and are refused visas there is a way forward.

what is that way forward wrussell?

The nightmare scenario would be an aged parent, for whatever reason,  failing that medical and then being asked to leave (more a booting out of) the country.  

 Ive yet to get a definitive answer on this medical that may (or may not) be demanded after 3 years - is it mandatory and everyone does it, or do they just select a random percentage of applicants on that bridging visa to comply??

[LindaH27]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Kash said:

what is that way forward wrussell?

The nightmare scenario would be an aged parent, for whatever reason,  failing that medical and then being asked to leave (more a booting out of) the country.  

 Ive yet to get a definitive answer on this medical that may (or may not) be demanded after 3 years - is it mandatory and everyone does it, or do they just select a random percentage of applicants on that bridging visa to comply??

Everybody on 804 has to have that medical. If they pass they are given a queue date which will be that current date and not the date of application 2-3 years earlier  

You can send a blank email to parents@homeaffairs.gov.au. Just put 143 in subject but don’t write anything else. You will get an automated response - there will be a chart further down  showing queuing and processing dates 

Also  look at my queries just above your last post 

Edited March 3, 2022 by LindaH27

[wrussell]

Quote

what is that way forward wrussell?

I have had parents who did not meet the health criterion granted very long stay subclass 602 visas. There are other possible strategies. May I suggest that you consult one of the registered migration agents who posts on this forum for an assessment that takes into account the particulars of your case?

[Marisawright]

11 hours ago, Johnny Kash said:

The nightmare scenario would be an aged parent, for whatever reason,  failing that medical and then being asked to leave (more a booting out of) the country.  

 Ive yet to get a definitive answer on this medical that may (or may not) be demanded after 3 years - is it mandatory and everyone does it, or do they just select a random percentage of applicants on that bridging visa to comply??

The preliminary medical is compuslory and everyone has to do it.  It's a fairly new thing, so if you are looking at old forums, you may  not see it mentioned.   The exact timing can vary. 

The bottom line is that there's no way to guarantee your parents can stay, and there's no way around that - they're gambling on an onshore temporary visa, and that's the nature of the game.

 

[palaceboy1]

Are all visa applicants over 75 required to have a medical before issue of visa . When we were having our 143 medicals we met a lady who had been instructed by IMMI to have a medical as she had reached 75 and had travelled many times on a tourist visa and this was the first time she had needed a medical

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, palaceboy1 said:

Are all visa applicants over 75 required to have a medical before issue of visa . When we were having our 143 medicals we met a lady who had been instructed by IMMI to have a medical as she had reached 75 and had travelled many times on a tourist visa and this was the first time she had needed a medical

You don’t need a medical for a tourist visa

[palaceboy1]

Is this an answer to my question regarding over 75 years and medicals . Maybe it’s for 600 but not for 651

[LindaH27]

37 minutes ago, palaceboy1 said:

Is this an answer to my question regarding over 75 years and medicals . Maybe it’s for 600 but not for 651

600 visa - you have to have a medical if over 75

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by LindaH27