handlesinc Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Hello. I hope someone can help with this question on visa applicants with disabilities. I had been planning to apply for a 491 visa with nomination from South Australia. However, one my children has a moderate learning disability and this almost certainly means he will need a health waiver to avoid being denied a visa on the grounds of the cost of special education support. I recently learned that the 491 visa does not accept health waivers, which is hugely disappointing news as this was my best shot at getting enough points for a realistic chance of success. Does anyone know if the 189 visa accepts health waivers? This would be a long shot as I would have fewer points, but better than nothing. The official guidance says "some skilled" visas accept health waivers but doesn't specify which. Thanks in advance for any help with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 To have even a small chance of getting a 189 visa, you would need at least 90 points, and most likely 95 to 100. As proof, take a look at the points needed even before Covid hit. Now, there is a huge backlog of visa applicants in the queue, so competition will be even more fierce. https://iscah.com/will-get-189-invite-updated-predictions/ George Lombard is well-known as THE agent to speak to, if you have any health issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Thanks. The high points requirement for 189 is one thing, but first I would need to know if it's even worth trying in my situation. I will contact George Lombard if I need more detailed advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, handlesinc said: Does anyone know if the 189 visa accepts health waivers? No, there is no waiver provision for the points tested 189. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Ah, okay. Disappointing but thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, handlesinc said: Ah, okay. Disappointing but thanks anyway. Have you looked into the costs involved in Australia and whether that would mean actually failing the requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 I have had preliminary advice from a migration lawyer that we would likely exceed the $51,000 threshold, even with low level support. I find this very surprising but I respect their expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Exceeding the threshold is not necessarily fatal to an application. The opinions of 'migration lawyers' or RMAs should be underpinned by the opinion of treating specialist practitioner/s familiar with the schedule 4 criteria and the medical condition of the visa applicant. Ultimately the opinion of a MOC (Medical Officer of the Commonwealth) must be accepted by all parties (including the minister) even if it is wrong. To make an informed decision it is good policy to have the likely costs assessed and if over the threshold (or in any case) gather evidence that these costs are not 'undue' when all the particulars of the case are taken into account. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Thank you for the advice. It does seem to be a complex topic, however my understanding is that if the MOC cost assessment exceeds the threshold then it is unlikely to be overturned in a visa category without a health waiver option (e.g. 491). Please correct if I’m wrong. The cost of special needs provision is hugely variable and virtually impossible to pin down accurately via remote assessment, but the estimate I mentioned was from a source experienced in disability costing in migration cases. If it were possible to get the actual MOC costing in advance then that would be one thing, but paying all the visa costs upfront and taking the risk of exceeding the threshold and then facing a costly appeal is one hell of a gamble. It would be helpful if they published guidance on how educational support is costed, to at least give an order of magnitude compared to the threshold, but it’s all rather opaque. It does all feel somewhat discriminatory and unnecessary, but obviously it is Australia’s choice and no one is forcing me to apply to move my family there. Regardless of all that, I appreciate the advice and I hope others are faring better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 For some health-related conditions it is possible to obtain the costings upon which MOCs (who are not forensic accountants) rely. Have you taken advice about having the child in question applying for a student visa in the first instance? Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 He is only 13 so I don't think a student visa applies. I will try to get a more thorough assessment done and see if there's a realistic chance of getting under the health costing threshold. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, handlesinc said: He is only 13 so I don't think a student visa applies. Actually I think it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Oh, okay. I have no idea how that would work as part of a family move, but i'll look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 You'd need the advice of an agent who specialises in medical conditions and they'd need to consider cognitive ability, current skill level and adaptive behaviour. The catch 22 is usually if the child is going to qualify for disability support then they aren't going to qualify for a visa and vice versa. Special Ed costs mount up very quickly unfortunately and is hard to judge because in many states allocation is based on individual need across a range of areas of function. STAs get different rates of pay according to the state. But, generally, if a child is in a special school or requires more than an hour or two STA time every day, they're going to be over the threshold. An agent will give you the best advice - if you haven't got an up to date psycho Educational assessment then you may have to fork out for an Ed Psych to do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thank you. I had crudely based an estimate of how much the cost implication might be on the IESP grant system in South Australia: https://www.education.sa.gov.au/sites/default/files/school-res-notes-2021.pdf?v=1605240578 In this model, moderate learning difficulties imply an annual cost for supported mainstream education of the order of $10-15k, which would make it difficult to get under the threshold. However, I have no idea how the MOC will actually do the assessment, so I'll get some professional advice. The bottom line is that, as you say, it is very hard to judge and the decision will rest with someone who has very limited information to go on. That's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 5 hours ago, handlesinc said: the decision will rest with someone who has very limited information to go on. I disagree with this part. The decision is made by a medical professional, who should be provided with detailed information. As mentioned numerous times, a registered migration agent with expertise in this area would be able to guide the process. Westley who has replied above would be able to assist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Fair enough. I just meant that parents of disabled children are well aware of the limitations of remote assessment, regardless of the professionalism of the assessor. I accept that this is inevitable in this kind of process, as they can't exactly meet all the children on a one-to-one, but that doesn't mean it isn't frustrating. I appreciate everyone's advice and I am indeed getting a professional assessment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) If PR is granted permanent residents are entitled to support services, even if they have never used them and do not intend to, so demonstrating that support services were not used for a period is not conclusive. Read the following with this in mind. ************************************************************ Make sure the professional assessment/s you pay for correctly address all the applicable schedule 4 criteria. A (one term?) enrolment under a student visa for a child might be of value as a strategy to demonstrate that the costs of schooling were not excessive. Three months study can be undertaken on a visitor visa, if a school can be found that is willing to enrol the student. This type strategy could not be used in conjunction with family migration. If any family member does not satisfy the health criteria at the relevant time all applicants would be refused visas. What you have going for you is the fact the expected costs are assessed for at most 10 years, or the duration of the visa for which you have applied. You will not be able to resolve the problem on a public forum, and possibly not at all. Edited February 8, 2022 by wrussell corrections 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thanks. Indeed I’m hoping that the 5 year horizon of the 491 visa that I’d like to apply for works in our favour, but even that might be too long. One question I’m curious about is what the cost estimate might entail beyond school (and do you have to assume school lasts until age 16, 17 or 18?) but hopefully my agent will answer that in the assessment. The student visa idea is an interesting one that I hadn’t considered before, but worth finding out more about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 13 hours ago, handlesinc said: Thank you. I had crudely based an estimate of how much the cost implication might be on the IESP grant system in South Australia: https://www.education.sa.gov.au/sites/default/files/school-res-notes-2021.pdf?v=1605240578 In this model, moderate learning difficulties imply an annual cost for supported mainstream education of the order of $10-15k, which would make it difficult to get under the threshold. However, I have no idea how the MOC will actually do the assessment, so I'll get some professional advice. The bottom line is that, as you say, it is very hard to judge and the decision will rest with someone who has very limited information to go on. That's life. I think for a kid with moderate intellectual disability that might be a low estimate - I would have gone for $20k for a child with reasonable social behaviour and no physical care needs and more if a special class or special school is required (that is the jurisdiction I am in, other states spend more, others spend less). Bear in mind that the same cost judgments would be made if permanent residence was a goal down the track and even if the child has been in Australia they may well have to leave should you apply for permanent residence. School leaving age in Australia is 17 but where I am, at least, special schools take kids up to 19/20. Post school options are limited and very dependent on area - there may be sheltered workshops or some employers who are prepared to take workers with special needs, not much different from UK probably. Independent living is another possible expense to consider. The people who make the decisions do so with the wealth of information that you provide to them - there are basics that they can use, hence the full current assessment of ability, skills and adaptive behaviour, as objective as possible - and they are very experienced and dont make decisions lightly. As has been said, it is not enough for you to say "we won't use services" they have to judge on whether you "could" need to use the services - if you are eligible then you would be able to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Quoll said: I think for a kid with moderate intellectual disability that might be a low estimate - I would have gone for $20k for a child with reasonable social behaviour and no physical care needs and more if a special class or special school is required (that is the jurisdiction I am in, other states spend more, others spend less). Bear in mind that the same cost judgments would be made if permanent residence was a goal down the track and even if the child has been in Australia they may well have to leave should you apply for permanent residence. School leaving age in Australia is 17 but where I am, at least, special schools take kids up to 19/20. Post school options are limited and very dependent on area - there may be sheltered workshops or some employers who are prepared to take workers with special needs, not much different from UK probably. Independent living is another possible expense to consider. The people who make the decisions do so with the wealth of information that you provide to them - there are basics that they can use, hence the full current assessment of ability, skills and adaptive behaviour, as objective as possible - and they are very experienced and dont make decisions lightly. As has been said, it is not enough for you to say "we won't use services" they have to judge on whether you "could" need to use the services - if you are eligible then you would be able to! Thanks again. I think it's looking like a pretty slim chance to squeeze under the community cost threshold, but I will wait and see what the professional assessment comes back with. I hope that, for others in the longer term, this rule is relaxed as it has been elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akb47 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 07/02/2022 at 20:41, paulhand said: No, there is no waiver provision for the points tested 189. Hi, Can you send me the link for the list of visas where the health waiver is available? As I could not find it in the home affairs site. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlesinc Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 On 13/02/2022 at 10:57, Akb47 said: Hi, Can you send me the link for the list of visas where the health waiver is available? As I could not find it in the home affairs site. Thanks I found a useful list on this website, but I don't know if it's reliable. https://ahwc.com.au/australian-immigration-news/australian-health-waivers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akb47 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 14 hours ago, handlesinc said: I found a useful list on this website, but I don't know if it's reliable. https://ahwc.com.au/australian-immigration-news/australian-health-waivers/ Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Very close, but somewhat outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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