BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hello Group!! I applied April 7 2021 for a RRV, As I have been out of the country for more than 15 years I believe I meet the criteria for the RRV 157. At first the time frame was 7 days to 3 months to process, my account now has been updated to 3 months to 3 months which doesn't make sense and now when googling it looks like it might be 4 months to process. I heard they are not even looking at problematic RRV until end of next year. Does anybody know if this is true. Appreciate any feedback. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: I applied April 7 2021 for a RRV, As I have been out of the country for more than 15 years I believe I meet the criteria for the RRV 157. At first the time frame was 7 days to 3 months to process, my account now has been updated to 3 months to 3 months which doesn't make sense and now when googling it looks like it might be 4 months to process. If you've been out of the country for 15 years then you don't meet the automatic criteria for anything. You can apply for an RRV but it's entirely at the discretion of the Immigration Department whether you'll get one. If you can't demonstrate "strong ties to Australia of benefit to the country", you'll be refused. If you meet the residency criteria for a RRV, it's processed in a matter of days or weeks. If you don't meet the residency criteria, it takes a lot longer - up to a year. I don't think it takes them that long to decide, I think they just put the tricky cases aside when they're busy... Edited July 18, 2021 by Marisawright 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Marisawright said: If you've been out of the country for 15 years then you don't meet the automatic criteria for anything. You can apply for an RRV but it's entirely at the discretion of the Immigration Department whether you'll get one. If you can't demonstrate "strong ties to Australia of benefit to the country", you'll be refused. If you meet the residency criteria for a RRV, it's processed in a matter of days or weeks. If you don't meet the residency criteria, it takes a lot longer - up to a year. I don't think it takes them that long to decide, I think they just put the tricky cases aside when they're busy... Yes it was my understanding that you could be out of Australia for 5 years max. 15 years is pushing it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 thx Marisawright. Yes I meet compassionate & compelling reasons, strong business ties , friends etc. I have heard of cases 15 plus years out of country getting granted a RRV so fingers crossed. Thank you for your reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: thx Marisawright. Yes I meet compassionate & compelling reasons, strong business ties , friends etc. I have heard of cases 15 plus years out of country getting granted a RRV so fingers crossed. Thank you for your reply! It's worth noting that they look at the "strong ties" first. If they feel that has not been met, then they won't even consider the compelling and compassionate reasons. Friends do not count. Edited July 18, 2021 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Thx Toots, Yes I know it's pushing it, it's actually around 18 years out of country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Marisawright It's a potential 3/4 million dollar investment in Australian manufacturing export business to Canada...be very surprised if they reject it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: Marisawright It's a potential 3/4 million dollar investment in Australian manufacturing export business to Canada...be very surprised if they reject it. Well, they say money talks so you never know your luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, BCCanuck said: Marisawright It's a potential 3/4 million dollar investment in Australian manufacturing export business to Canada...be very surprised if they reject it. It will be interesting to see. The usual criteria is an existing strong tie, not a “I promise to do x if you let me back in” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 10 hours ago, BCCanuck said: Hello Group!! I applied April 7 2021 for a RRV, As I have been out of the country for more than 15 years I believe I meet the criteria for the RRV 157. At first the time frame was 7 days to 3 months to process, my account now has been updated to 3 months to 3 months which doesn't make sense and now when googling it looks like it might be 4 months to process. I heard they are not even looking at problematic RRV until end of next year. Does anybody know if this is true. Appreciate any feedback. Cheers Mark If you have been out of the country for more than 5 years you cannot legislatively meet the criteria for a 157 visa, which require you to have spent at least one day in Australia as a permanent resident in the past 5 years. If you have substantial ties of benefit to Australia, and compelling reasons for an extended absence, a 155 might be doable. Processing times for these applications are usually 3-4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Thx paulhand, Yeah not sure how it it pan out been out the country so long, My niece passed at 18 months keeping us in Canada for family support. My business ties I believe are strong as I'm currently importing Australian manufactured machines, those receipts have been submitted to my file. I didn't think I met the criteria for the 155 and so possibly get the 157. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: Thx paulhand, Yeah not sure how it it pan out been out the country so long, My niece passed at 18 months keeping us in Canada for family support. My business ties I believe are strong as I'm currently importing Australian manufactured machines, those receipts have been submitted to my file. I didn't think I met the criteria for the 155 and so possibly get the 157. Which one did you apply for ? Paul is a professional agent and has just told you that you can't get the 157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Marisawright, It's a general RRV application and from my understanding they test criteria for 155 first, if that not met then they test against the 157. I just assumed I didn't meet criteria for the 155. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 9 hours ago, BCCanuck said: Marisawright, It's a general RRV application and from my understanding they test criteria for 155 first, if that not met then they test against the 157. That’s correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Got the RRV refusal today...seems they didn't even take into account compassionate and compelling reasons which primarily kept me out the country... Information and evidence considered I am a delegated decision maker under section 65 of the Migration Act 1958 (the Act). In reaching my decision, I have considered the following: ● ● ● ● Relevant legislation contained in the Act and Migration Regulations 1994 (the Regulations). Information contained in the department's policy guidelines Procedures Advice Manual 3. All documents and information provided by the applicant in support of their application. Other relevant information held on departmental files. Findings From all the information available to me, including the documents and information the applicant provided, I find that the applicant does not meet the criteria for the grant of a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) visa and Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visa. Reasons I have assessed the applicant’s case and the reasons for my decision are detailed below. Residents Return Team Department of Home Affairs WEBSITE: www.homeaffairs.gov.au Subclause 155.212 (3) -2- An application for a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) visa has been made by the applicant. This was also taken to be an application for a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visa because it satisfied the validity requirements for that visa subclass. Under migration law, a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the relevant legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Regulations. The prescribed criteria for the grant of Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) and Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visas are set out in Part 155 and Part 157 of Schedule 2 of the Regulations. The applicant must, at time of application, satisfy clause 155.212 by meeting the requirements of at least one of the subclauses (2), (3), (3A) or (4); or satisfy clause 157.212 by meeting the requirements of at least one of the subclauses (2) or (3). Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) visa The legal requirement in clause 155.212 in Schedule 2 of the Regulations has not been met by the applicant on the date the application was lodged. Clause 155.212 states as follows: (1) The applicant meets the requirements of subclause (2), (3), (3A) or (4). Subclause 155.212 (2) (2) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant: (a) was: (i) the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit; or (ii) an Australian citizen; and (b) was not the holder of: (i) a temporary visa (other than a Subclass 601 (Electronic Travel Authority visa, a Subclass 773 Border visa, Subclass 956 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant — Long Validity) visa, Subclass 976 Electronic Travel Authority (Visitor) visa or subclass 977 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant — Short Validity) visa held concurrently with the permanent visa or the permanent entry permit); or (ii) a bridging visa. Assessment: The applicant was a holder of an Independent (subclass 126) visa and last departed Australia as the holder of this visa on 6 May 2003. The travel facility of this visa ceased on 20 January 2004. The Department’s international movement records database shows the applicant has been present in Australia as a holder of a permanent resident visa for zero (0) days in the last five years immediately before the application for the visa. As the applicant has not been present in Australia as a holder of a permanent resident visa for at least two years in the last five years immediately before the application for the visa, the applicant does not meet the requirements in subclause 155.212 (2). Residents Return Team Department of Home Affairs WEBSITE: www.homeaffairs.gov.au ● ● ● ● ● ● ● Jet Wave quotation dated 16 May 2021 The Jetters Edge tax invoice dated 29 April 2021 The Jetters Edge quote dated 25 March 2021 Statement from the applicant Photo of Elizabeth’s memorial bench Photo of bank accounts summaries Birth certificates of children -3- (3) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant is outside Australia, and the Minister is satisfied that the applicant has substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia, and the applicant: (a) has not been absent from Australia for a continuous period of 5 years or more immediately before the application for the visa, unless there are compelling reasons for the absence, and the applicant: (i) holds a permanent visa; or (ii) last departed Australia as an Australian permanent resident; or (iii) last departed Australia as an Australian citizen, but has subsequently lost or renounced Australian citizenship; or (b) was an Australian citizen, or an Australian permanent resident, less than 10 years before the application, and has not been absent from Australia for a period of, or periods that total, more than 5 years in the period from the date that the applicant last departed Australia as an Australian citizen or Australian permanent resident to the date of the application, unless there are compelling reasons for the absence. Assessment: The Department’s international movement records database shows the applicant was outside of Australia at time of application. The applicant attached the following documents to their application: The purpose of the Resident Return visa is to facilitate the re-entry into Australia of non- citizen permanent residents and ensure that only those people who have a genuine commitment to residing permanently in Australia or who are contributing to Australia’s well- being, retain the right to return to Australia and remain permanently. Business ties consist of business activity, which is ongoing, regular and is commercial in nature with an intention to make a profit. While the applicant need not have physical residence in Australia, they should have substantial ownership interests in the business. The business should be an Australian business or a branch of a business, which has connections with Australia. The applicant claims to have substantial ties of benefit to Australia as he has quotes/ purchased [plumbing equipment from an Australian company] for use in his business overseas. In this case, the applicant has made a single purchase of equipment for use in his offshore business. I particularly/also note that the applicant has spent minimal time in Australia as a permanent resident. In the absence of other substantial ties of benefit to Australia, I give little weight to this claim/evidence. Residents Return Team Department of Home Affairs WEBSITE: www.homeaffairs.gov.au -4- I have taken into account the time spent in Australia compared with the time spent overseas since the grant of first permanent residency 20 January 1999. The applicant has been inside Australia for 463 days and outside Australia for 7612 days. The applicant has been absent from Australia since 6 June 2003. In this case there has been minimal time spent in Australia. It becomes increasingly difficult to demonstrate substantial ties of benefit over greater periods of absence. This is in part because the longer the period of absence, the more difficult it is to continue to maintain ties of sufficient importance to be considered ‘substantial’. Upon considering all the documents provided by the applicant, I am not satisfied that the applicant has provided evidence to demonstrate existence of substantial ties that are of benefit to Australia. As the applicant does not satisfy the requirement of having substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia, I am not required to assess against the remaining requirements of this subclause. As such, based on the available information, the applicant does not meet the requirements in subclause 155.212 (3). Subclause 155.212 (3A) (3A) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant is in Australia, and the Minister is satisfied that the applicant: (a) has substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia; and (b) has not been absent from Australia for a continuous period of 5 years or more since: (i) the date of grant of the applicant's most recent permanent visa, unless there are compelling reasons for the absence; or (ii) the date on which the applicant ceased to be a citizen, unless there are compelling reasons for the absence. Assessment: As the applicant was outside Australia when the visa application was lodged, the applicant does not meet the time of application requirement prescribed in subclause 155.212 (3A). Subclause 155.212 (4) (4) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant is a member of the family unit of a person who: (a) has been granted a subclass 155 visa and that visa is still in effect; or (b) meets the requirements of subclause (2), (3) or (3A) and has lodged a separate application for a Return (Residence) (Class BB) visa. Assessment: The applicant has not demonstrated that they are a member of a family unit of a person who has been granted a subclass 155 visa that is still in effect, or meets the requirements of subclauses (2), (3) or (3A). Therefore, the applicant does not meet the requirements in subclause 155.212 (4). Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visa Residents Return Team Department of Home Affairs WEBSITE: www.homeaffairs.gov.au -5- The legal requirement in clause 157.212 in Schedule 2 of the Regulations has not been met by the applicant on the date the application was lodged. Clause 157.212 states as follows: (1) The applicant meets the requirements of subclause (2) or (3). Subclause 157.212 (2) (2) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant: (a) was lawfully present in Australia for a period of, or periods that total, not less than 1 day but less than 2 years in the period of 5 years immediately before the application for the visa and, during that time, the applicant: (i) was: (A) the holder of a permanent visa or a permanent entry permit; or (B) an Australian citizen; and (ii) was not the holder of: (A) a temporary visa (other than a Subclass 601 (Electronic Travel Authority visa, a Subclass 773 Border visa, Subclass 956 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant — Long Validity) visa, Subclass 976 Electronic Travel Authority (Visitor) visa or subclass 977 Electronic Travel Authority (Business Entrant — Short Validity) visa held concurrently with the permanent visa or the permanent entry permit); or (B) a bridging visa; and (b) either: (i) has compelling and compassionate reasons for departing Australia; or (ii) if outside Australia, had compelling and compassionate reasons for his or her last departure from Australia. Assessment: The applicant has not been present in Australia as a holder of a permanent resident visa for at least one day in the last five years immediately before the application for the visa. Therefore, the applicant does not meet the requirements in subclause 157.212 (2). Subclause 157.212 (3) (3) The applicant meets the requirements of this subclause if the applicant is a member of the family unit of a person who: (a) has been granted a subclass 157 visa and that visa is still in effect; or (b) meets the requirements of subclause (2) and has lodged a separate application for a Return (Residence) (Class BB) visa. Assessment: The applicant has not demonstrated that they are a member of a family unit of a person who has been granted a subclass 157 visa that is still in effect, or meets the requirements of subclause 157.212 (2). Therefore, the applicant does not meet the requirements in subclause 157.212 (3). Decision As clause 155.212 is not met by the applicant, I find the criteria for the grant of a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) visa are not met by the applicant. As clause 157.212 is also not met by the applicant, I find the criteria for the grant of a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visa are not met by the applicant. Residents Return Team Department of Home Affairs WEBSITE: www.homeaffairs.gov.au Therefore, I refuse the application by the applicant for a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 155) visa and a Resident Return (Class BB) (subclass 157) visa, respectively. Yours sincerely Baljit Position Number: 60060464 Department of Home Affairs 27 July 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 52 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: Got the RRV refusal today...seems they didn't even take into account compassionate and compelling reasons which primarily kept me out the country... As the letter says, and as noted above, if you do not have substantial ties to Australia, which are of benefit to Australia, all the compelling reasons in the world are not legislatively relevant for a subclass 155 visa. As I also explained above, you do not meet the one day residence in the past 5 years criterion to be eligible for a subclass 157 visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, BCCanuck said: Got the RRV refusal today...seems they didn't even take into account compassionate and compelling reasons which primarily kept me out the country....... While the applicant need not have physical residence in Australia, they should have substantial ownership interests in the business. The business should be an Australian business or a branch of a business, which has connections with Australia. The applicant claims to have substantial ties of benefit to Australia as he has quotes/ purchased [plumbing equipment from an Australian company] for use in his business overseas I did try to warn you. I think maybe you've misunderstood what constitutes "a tie". They're looking for indications that even though you left, you still kept something of your old life to come back to, e.g. you have family members here, or you kept your home here, or your bank accounts, or you put a manager into your former Australian business and you're still running it. Having a business overseas and ordering stuff from Australia is a business relationship, not a "tie"". The fact of the matter is though, that your reasons don't sound convincing either. Your reason for leaving is compelling (losing a child is a terrible tragedy), and one could well imagine the bereaved parents needing support for a few years, but did they really need your support for a whole 18 years? Did you supply evidence to cover the whole period? If you want to return, you'll need to apply for another visa. If you have a business that you can bring to Australia then there are investor visas you could look into. Edited July 27, 2021 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Looks like you'll have to apply for a new visa then. If you've got millions to spare then the investors visa seems like a way to go. BTW, Immigration are not in the Compassion business (and neither should they be), they are in the business business. Best talk to an agent about your options. Edited July 27, 2021 by Quoll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Marisawright said: If you want to return, you'll need to apply for another visa. 5 hours ago, Quoll said: Looks like you'll have to apply for a new visa then. Or, possibly, create sufficient ties for them to be considered “substantial” and “of benefit to Australia” 5 hours ago, Quoll said: Immigration are not in the Compassion business I think that’s somewhat unfair … there are 20 references to compassionate circumstances in the Migration Act and Regulations, and 20+ further references to compelling circumstances, which is a slightly lower barrier. Sometimes compassion is definitely lacking in decisions, but there are mechanisms in place to try and ensure that genuine needs are accommodated. At the end of the day, immigration is about benefit to Australia and that can be economic or societal. The entire family programme, partner and parent, is not about economics, but about ‘compassion’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCCanuck Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 I have read through some of the comments and some are on the side...told ya so...anyone can order some stuff from Australia for a business tie...blar blar blar...at the end of the day, my PR ran out, my bad...I didn't realize years ago my visa would expire, there was nothing of the such on the page that was in my passport....if it stated it expired and you would loose PR then I'm sure I would have been on the case years ago. Life happens and time goes bye....to refuse a RRV thats Australia's choice.....Would my contribution to Australia be a benefit or a burden.....thats the question....I've generated jobs with my business here in Canada and I'm sure the same would have happened in Australia....In a few months time, when Australia looses thousand of businesses to the lockdowns then Australia will be looking for entrepreneurs to kick start the economy. Australia chose not to grant that investment....Instead I'll invest that money in a vacation home in Australia and sit my arse on a beach for the best part of the year then head back to Canada. Trust me theres no skin off my back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhand Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, BCCanuck said: Instead I'll invest that money in a vacation home in Australia This will be helpful: https://firb.gov.au/guidance-resources/guidance-notes/gn6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, BCCanuck said: I have read through some of the comments and some are on the side...told ya so... Well, you can't deny that I did warn you. Not your fault, you wouldn't be the first person to think that "permanent" meant "permanent". I just pointed out the facts - that you failed to meet the criteria by a country mile. You may think the criteria are cock-eyed, but they are what they are. You were asking them to base their decision on a mere promise that you would, in the future, move a valuable business to Australia -but for all they know, you might have just closed down your business in Canada and retired to Oz. If you had gone for an investor visa, you have to prove your ability and commitment to invest. That's the difference. Edited July 28, 2021 by Marisawright 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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