new BBC documentary called "school"

[JetBlast]

I agree. Teachers shouldn't be managing the books it isn't their area of expertise.

[benj1980]

I worked in two LA schools whom turned into Academies and then MAT. They have nose dived. Results have gone down, Ofsted ratings plummeted, massive turnover of staff and big cuts throughout the school. Yes schools could be a bit wasteful but this Academy exercise has been a disaster. I don't know one person (and I'm in contact with plenty of teachers, admittedly South West England) who would suggest that becoming an Academy has helped their school. I'm pleased to be out of that system and so are the 50% of teachers that I graduated with!

[benj1980]

On 01/03/2019 at 20:47, BacktoDemocracy said:

I'm sure you are correct, but it does concern me that education is now all about making money, not that head teachers should simply waste money but they are employed as educators and their time is then taken up with trying to juggle budgets and staffing, it does take their eye off the ball somewhat and if that is to be their primary job then why recruit teachers in the first place.

It seems that schools are in an impossible position, under constant threat from Ofsted and struggling to make the books balance,  and often the projected savings often require capital investment to achieve the long term savings.

Unfortunately I do see it as a political choice,  but that maybe beyond this site.

I believe that MATs in particular employ finance expertise, that of course becomes the problem. Financial expertise but not education! A difficult situation which needs a balance. I always remember Gove saying how great the teaching profession is a great career path, despite record numbers dropping out. Ministers for education with no teaching experience are also flawed, but I guess there aren't many ministers with such experience! I digress...

[BacktoDemocracy]

57 minutes ago, benj1980 said:

I believe that MATs in particular employ finance expertise, that of course becomes the problem. Financial expertise but not education! A difficult situation which needs a balance. I always remember Gove saying how great the teaching profession is a great career path, despite record numbers dropping out. Ministers for education with no teaching experience are also flawed, but I guess there aren't many ministers with such experience! I digress...

Are you out altogether because if you are that is a tragedy, or have you taken your expertise to Australia, which is equally a tragedy for the UK.

Gove thought that because he was educated at a school he knew everything about teaching, a man who was always trying so desperately to be a toff and show off his mastery of the English language just to dazzle the public schoolboys in his party  he f..ked education up for a generation for his countr  My view of English is for people to be able to communicate ideas clearly and succinctly not to be able to discuss arcane uses of punctuation which Gove imagined was foremost

[JetBlast]

2 hours ago, benj1980 said:

I worked in two LA schools whom turned into Academies and then MAT. They have nose dived. Results have gone down, Ofsted ratings plummeted, massive turnover of staff and big cuts throughout the school. Yes schools could be a bit wasteful but this Academy exercise has been a disaster. I don't know one person (and I'm in contact with plenty of teachers, admittedly South West England) who would suggest that becoming an Academy has helped their school. I'm pleased to be out of that system and so are the 50% of teachers that I graduated with!

One school I work with was in special measures with the LA for 3 OFSTED inspections. The DFE stepped in hand handed it to a MAT. The following inspection it was judged as Outstanding.

You can't tar them all with the same brush.

[benj1980]

6 hours ago, JetBlast said:

One school I work with was in special measures with the LA for 3 OFSTED inspections. The DFE stepped in hand handed it to a MAT. The following inspection it was judged as Outstanding.

You can't tar them all with the same brush.

One school? Not exactly raising standards throughout the country then!

The only ones I can tar with the same brush is the ones I know about and the feedback from teacher friends. Not one of them have said becoming an Academy has improved things for them, in fact it has made things worse as I mentioned. These teachers are in schools in Cornwall, Devon, Bristol and Wiltshire. I'm from Cornwall, trained in East Devon and lived in Wiltshire for five years as a teacher.

@BacktoDemocracy Out of my cohort 50% have left teaching that I'm aware of. They did this within 5 years. I'm fast approaching ten years in teaching now and I teach in WA, which I much prefer. I was looking how to move out of teaching myself as I couldn't see myself in the role at say 50. I have friends who teach in Dubai, Egypt (previously Saudi Arabia), China, Bali, NZ and Vietnam. All who were going to quit teaching and thought they'd give somewhere else a go first. They have all been working in these countries for a couple of years and have no intention of coming back. I used to think teaching abroad was for singles and a temporary thing. It doesn't seem to be the case anymore with many of these schools now linked up with private institutions in the UK and well looked after. I digress again. 

[newjez]

8 hours ago, JetBlast said:

One school I work with was in special measures with the LA for 3 OFSTED inspections. The DFE stepped in hand handed it to a MAT. The following inspection it was judged as Outstanding.

You can't tar them all with the same brush.

You don't think that was a politically motivated ofsted?

Edited March 7, 2019 by newjez

[BacktoDemocracy]

16 hours ago, JetBlast said:

One school I work with was in special measures with the LA for 3 OFSTED inspections. The DFE stepped in hand handed it to a MAT. The following inspection it was judged as Outstanding.

You can't tar them all with the same brush.

Have you ever considered the thought that Ofsted might be a politacally motivated, partisan organisation, it sounds unlikely to achieve that kind of turnaround, unless it was about an injection of funds that the LA couldn't give 

[JetBlast]

11 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Have you ever considered the thought that Ofsted might be a politacally motivated, partisan organisation, it sounds unlikely to achieve that kind of turnaround, unless it was about an injection of funds that the LA couldn't give 

A turn around like that was achieved by proper management of the school. Cash wouldn't ensure good management. What do you do for a living out of curiosity? 

Why can't people just appreciate an academy has done well without a conspiracy or negative spin.

Edited March 7, 2019 by JetBlast

[JetBlast]

21 hours ago, benj1980 said:

One school? Not exactly raising standards throughout the country then!

The only ones I can tar with the same brush is the ones I know about and the feedback from teacher friends. Not one of them have said becoming an Academy has improved things for them, in fact it has made things worse as I mentioned. These teachers are in schools in Cornwall, Devon, Bristol and Wiltshire. I'm from Cornwall, trained in East Devon and lived in Wiltshire for five years as a teacher.

@BacktoDemocracy Out of my cohort 50% have left teaching that I'm aware of. They did this within 5 years. I'm fast approaching ten years in teaching now and I teach in WA, which I much prefer. I was looking how to move out of teaching myself as I couldn't see myself in the role at say 50. I have friends who teach in Dubai, Egypt (previously Saudi Arabia), China, Bali, NZ and Vietnam. All who were going to quit teaching and thought they'd give somewhere else a go first. They have all been working in these countries for a couple of years and have no intention of coming back. I used to think teaching abroad was for singles and a temporary thing. It doesn't seem to be the case anymore with many of these schools now linked up with private institutions in the UK and well looked after. I digress again. 

That was just 1 example. There are also other schools in the MAT. All a minimum of good.

Like I say I actually work in the industry with both types of schools. There are good LAs as well.  Too many bash MATS (most of them don't actually work in the industry) but they are not all bad.

[BacktoDemocracy]

41 minutes ago, JetBlast said:

That was just 1 example. There are also other schools in the MAT. All a minimum of good.

Like I say I actually work in the industry with both types of schools. There are good LAs as well.  Too many bash MATS (most of them don't actually work in the industry) but they are not all bad.

My concern is that public assets are now private assets dedicated to making education pay, what was a social enterprise dedicated to enriching the education of all is now a reflection of our class dominated society.

Those public assets are now lost to the country and are a transfer of social wealth.

I also question why academies are allowed to operate under different rules on teacher employment.

[JetBlast]

My concern is that public assets are now private assets dedicated to making education pay, what was a social enterprise dedicated to enriching the education of all is now a reflection of our class dominated society.
Those public assets are now lost to the country and are a transfer of social wealth.
I also question why academies are allowed to operate under different rules on teacher employment.

It doesn't work like that in reality.

If schools had more financial freedom under an LA less would become an Academy. One thing I find annoying is that many LA schools can't save a surplus for a big project such as a building refurbishment. If they have surplus the LA take it off them. So to avoid that happening I have seen schools spending for the sake of it. It just encourages reckless spending and that is a waste of public money.

[newjez]

8 hours ago, JetBlast said:

 

 

It doesn't work like that in reality.

If schools had more financial freedom under an LA less would become an Academy. One thing I find annoying is that many LA schools can't save a surplus for a big project such as a building refurbishment. If they have surplus the LA take it off them. So to avoid that happening I have seen schools spending for the sake of it. It just encourages reckless spending and that is a waste of public money.

 

I've seen that happening in public and private companies. It's basically poor financial structuring. Very inefficient. Poor planning doesn't help either. At my local school they built a new single story computer suite. After a year they were told they has to increase numbers, so they knocked down the computer suite and built a four storey building on it. Not exactly a great use of money.

This I found interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47482587

[BacktoDemocracy]

4 hours ago, newjez said:

I've seen that happening in public and private companies. It's basically poor financial structuring. Very inefficient. Poor planning doesn't help either. At my local school they built a new single story computer suite. After a year they were told they has to increase numbers, so they knocked down the computer suite and built a four storey building on it. Not exactly a great use of money.

This I found interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47482587

At some stage someone has to take responsibility, govt ministers just consistently say they are giving more money and the people at the sharp end are saying we are not seeing that money and our service is no longer viable, ministers are always able to point to some academy which is providing a full service and say "look, they can do it, why aren't you" meanwhile the experience for many is a curtailed experience, in education that means an education concentrated down onto core subjects, is that acceptable in the 21st century.

That children are not being introduced to languages, music, nutrition, the social divide is now being expanded and the message being given to so many kids is you are not worth a proper education, why are we surprised at the rise of gangs and knife crime, kids are realising that their lives are not valued, so why value anyone elses, the ultimate throw away society.

Schools are judged purely on results so why have any difficult kids in school just offroll them, there are always better and brighter kids clamouring to get into " successful" schools, once you introduce market forces into any system then you get winners and losers, dare I suggest that the academies and the grammar schools are predominantly the winners in this marketized system

And even more appallingly the academies strike their own funding deal with Dof E, no wonder they are doing so well, and they can even decide their own curriculum. 

Trebles all round lads

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_(English_school)

Edited March 8, 2019 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 8/3/2019 at 06:42, newjez said:

I've seen that happening in public and private companies. It's basically poor financial structuring. Very inefficient. Poor planning doesn't help either. At my local school they built a new single story computer suite. After a year they were told they has to increase numbers, so they knocked down the computer suite and built a four storey building on it. Not exactly a great use of money.

This I found interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47482587

This lays bare the divisions in our schools.

And everyone is wringing their hands at the rise in knife crime, well this spells out clearly how the govt have driven our education system to replicate the divisions in society.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/08/its-dangerous-full-chaos-of-funding-cuts-in-englands-schools-revealed

[starlight7]

I watched a couple of episodes of that schools program and just thanked the Lord my kids all went to school here. Really.  Talk about depressing.

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 1/3/2019 at 12:49, JetBlast said:

I agree. Teachers shouldn't be managing the books it isn't their area of expertise.

This is a quote from a guardian article in Monday 22/4/19

 

Ignore the ministers who assure anyone who will listen that school spending has never been higher. Listen instead to the Institute for Fiscal Studies,whose figures prove that in England, total school funding per pupil between 2010 and 2018 fell by 8% in real terms. As Kevin Courtney, the joint general secretary of the National Education Union, emphasised in a speech last week, spending on education as a percentage of GDP (which encompasses both schools and universities) has come down from a peak of 5.8% in 2010 to barely more than 4%. This is much the same level as back in 1960 – when, as Courtney pointed out, “young people left school at 15, not 18 [and] tiny numbers went to university”.

 

And if you want a case study in the awfulness of modern education policy, look no further than Baron Agnew of Oulton, the 58-year-old alumnus of Rugby school and businessman who, as if to highlight the smooth workings of our 21st-century meritocracy, is a minister at the Department for Education. Last year, he said he was “like a pig out hunting for truffles when it comes to finding waste in schools”. The baron bet headteachers a bottle of champagne that advisers dispatched by the DfE could find proof of needless spending.

Three weeks ago came news of the kind of thing he had in mind: among 20 schools visited by his “school resource management advisers”, some had been variously told to replace teachers with support staff on limited contracts, teach some classes three at a time in a dining hall, keep half of any money they raised for local charities – including a children’s hospice – and, when it came to lunch, submit to “reviewing the portion size”.

These are plotlines worthy of Charles Dickens, enacted by people who mix the condescension of Victorian worthies with the flimsy vocabulary of management consultants. In eight years flat, they have inflicted damage on the school system – and, by extension, society and the economy – that may take decades to repair. Meanwhile, the future speeds on. And you wonder: if the Tories remain in charge, how will a country run by people so deluded and inept even begin to cope?

Edited April 23, 2019 by BacktoDemocracy