What's the point of living in regional area if you can't find work?

[Jupiter]

Suppose you're in the ICT line of work. Staying in the countryside for several years waiting tables is a pointless life for someone who is skilled as a software engineer.

[Eera]

"Regional" does not necessarily equal "countryside".  It's pretty much all of Australia outside a few metro centres.  Here is Queensland everywhere apart from the south-east corner counts as regional, and funnily enough we have systems engineering needs as well.

[Karstedt]

It makes the politicians feel good.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

@Eera is correct, when you look how large Australia is and the tiny dots that are major cities you have a large area to play with.

I also understand your view in that a lot of IT positions are run from a central point usually in one of the cities.

I had this conversation with my son last night as the health Service must see it different again, because his girlfriend and best mateare studying to be Drs they have been told if they move Rural then they will get an extra $20,000 my argument was that they live in Townsville and Cairns so surely they must be classed as rural, but he says not.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I suppose when you read through some of the latest news articles about it they are wanting people to move regional but why just new migrants, surely they could offer more incentives to Australians as well. 

Bringing new migrants in Under this scheme would surely mean they would have to change the skilled occupation list as a lot of the IT jobs won’t be high in demand.

AUSTRALIA runs the risk of creating dozens of “ghetto towns” if a plan to force new migrants to live in regional and rural areas is enforced.

Alan Tudge, the recently appointed Minister for Population and Cities, flagged the Government’s intention to require a percentage of immigrants to spend five years living in smaller towns rather than settle in capital cities.

It was sold as a measure to give struggling cities like Sydney and Melbourne a breather and allow infrastructure investments to catch up with booming populations.

However, leading planning expert Shane Geha said the country runs the risk of “creating a cure that’s worse than the disease”.

“If we simply send migrants to the regions without thought or planning, we will end up with ghetto towns rather than ghetto suburbs,” Dr Geha, managing director of EG Urban Planning and Property, told news.com.au.

“There are no jobs and there is lower income. Quite simply, this is not a good formula for successful towns to thrive.”

Pressure has been mounting on Prime Minister Scott Morrison to prioritise a population plan, with calls from some in his Government to slash immigration numbers.

Speaking in Tasmania earlier this month, Mr Morrison said he supported migrant visas that were contingent on moving to non-metro areas.

“We need to manage the impact of growth in Sydney and Melbourne, where we need to manage the impacts of what has been particularly strong population growth,” he said.

There are concerns that population growth in cities like Melbourne and Sydney has become unsustainable and infrastructure investment isn’t adequate.Source:Supplied

At present, net overseas migration accounts for 60 per cent of Australia’s overall population growth, but around 75 per cent of the growth of the biggest two cities, Sydney and Melbourne.

Some 90 per cent of new arrivals each year choose to live in the NSW and Victorian capitals, Mr Tudge pointed out.

“Settling even a slightly larger number of new migrants to the smaller states and regions can take significant pressure off our big cities,” Mr Tudge said last week.

“We are working on measures to have more new arrivals go to the smaller states and regions and require them to be there for at least a few years.”

There are scant details on the idea, including on how many migrants would be required to settle in rural and regional cities. The figure of a five-year minimum stay has been touted previously.

Alan Tudge has flagged an idea of forcing new migrants to live in rural or regional areas, possibly for up to five years. Picture: Rohan ThomsonSource:News Corp Australia

The national population passed 25 million in August and sparked a conversation about whether cities are prepared to cater to bigger resident bases.

But Dr Geha said large cities remain “the best place” for new migrants to live in after making Australia their home.

“Our country and our cities are built on migration, but it isn’t good planning to shift social and economic problems to small regions that would likely struggle in accommodating and creating employment for new and poorly equipped migrants,” Dr Geha said.

In the United States, many major cities have successful “satellite” locations that adequately accommodate large numbers of people while taking the pressure off elsewhere, he said.

Los Angeles and San Francisco have a number of smaller-sized settlements an hour or so away that provide good employment and education opportunities as well as adequate transport and other infrastructure.

“But these smaller fringe cities can also result in increased congestion with a reliance on the car, with almost all journeys between the hub and its peripheries being vehicular,” he said.

“Unlike Australian cities though, these towns are home to well over 100,000 people at the least and contain company headquarters and large universities. That is much more possible in the US than Australia because we lack the population, density and capital to do so.”

Planning expert Shane Geha says a number of regional areas are already struggling to grow, such as Rockhampton in central Queensland, and have limited employment prospects as it is.Source:Supplied

He points to the central Queensland regional hub of Rockhampton as an example of a town that has struggled to grow its population as it is, without migration.

“It’s a beautiful town with excellent weather and almost the exact same population as when I was a teenager,” he said.

Rockhampton is home to an estimated 80,000 people and despite being a gateway to industrial and mining-rich areas, its resident base hasn’t grown much.

“We should aim to create viable, beautiful towns and cities and the best and most obvious place for current expansion, in my view, are the eight capitals, which already 70 per cent of us have decided are great places to live and work.”

Some 90 per cent of new migrants choose to settle in pockets of the two biggest cities, such as the western Sydney suburb of Cabramatta. Picture: AAPSource:News Corp Australia

Cities like Adelaide and the Gold Coast could benefit from a forced influx of overseas workers, he said, but sustainable employment opportunities would be required.

But while the Government considers dictating where new arrivals live, it has also flagged an intended reduction in the overall number of migrants.

“If that happens, there will be less chance of economic growth in either the cities or the regions,” Dr Geha said.

“We need capital and manpower to fire up our economy. And if that can be done with less workers, capital, manpower and intellectual and physical grunt, then I will happily stand corrected.”

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has indicated the Government will unveil a new population policy framework soon. Picture: AAPSource:AAP

Mr Morrison has flagged a new policy on population, as a Fairfax-Ipsos poll showed more than half of Coalition supporters want immigration cut “a little or a lot”.

The Opposition has committed to establishing an independent body looking at labour supply and shortages in the regions.

Spokesman Brendan O’Connor has cast doubt in the Government’s plan, saying Mr Tudge should seek evidence and advice from experts first.

“The idea that you would direct people coming through the immigration processes to regions where there’s already high unemployment could compound a problem, not make it better,” Mr O’Connor said.

[Eera]

1 hour ago, The Pom Queen said:

@Eera is correct, when you look how large Australia is and the tiny dots that are major cities you have a large area to play with.

I also understand your view in that a lot of IT positions are run from a central point usually in one of the cities.

 

 

I find it really frustrating that people seem to refuse to consider "regional" areas - even when those regional areas can be excess of 300000+ people.  We have huge, I mean HUGE problems recruiting employees - to the extent we offer wages 30% higher than they'll find in Metro areas, and still they bugger off at the first opportunity.  It's a waste of our time training them up when we lose them as soon as they become assets.

In the IT field we are sick to death of having to wait days to get someone flown up from Brisbane or whatever to do something to the server: there are regional opportunities, especially for companies who don't have a statewide presence and no IT pool to call on.  I also recall the recent thread from an IT professional who could not get a job in Melbourne despite the impression it was a golden area in the field.  Of course there are different areas within IT, all of which use acronyms I don't understand and may be based in localised areas, but the point is there are opportunities out there which don't involve waiting tables if you are willing to consider them.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

15 minutes ago, Eera said:

I find it really frustrating that people seem to refuse to consider "regional" areas - even when those regional areas can be excess of 300000+ people.  We have huge, I mean HUGE problems recruiting employees - to the extent we offer wages 30% higher than they'll find in Metro areas, and still they bugger off at the first opportunity.  It's a waste of our time training them up when we lose them as soon as they become assets.

In the IT field we are sick to death of having to wait days to get someone flown up from Brisbane or whatever to do something to the server: there are regional opportunities, especially for companies who don't have a statewide presence and no IT pool to call on.  I also recall the recent thread from an IT professional who could not get a job in Melbourne despite the impression it was a golden area in the field.  Of course there are different areas within IT, all of which use acronyms I don't understand and may be based in localised areas, but the point is there are opportunities out there which don't involve waiting tables if you are willing to consider them.

@Eera I can’t remember what you do now but my son is in Townsville but needing a uni placement he is doing  Bachelor of Electrical engineering with a bachelor in  IT. So if you know anyone please can you let me know, he is willing to travel anywhere to get it done. I don’t know much about it only he mentioned 3 months and Uni holidays. I can’t tell you if he is good at it as it’s over my head lol. I can say though he is a hard worker.

[Eera]

1 hour ago, The Pom Queen said:

@Eera I can’t remember what you do now but my son is in Townsville but needing a uni placement he is doing  Bachelor of Electrical engineering

Sent you a PM

[Guest The Pom Queen]

And where else could you buy a 20 hectare island on the Great Barrier Reef for 1.2 million. You would end up with a 2 bed apartment in Sydney for that money  @Bobj shall we go halves lol. https://www.realestate.com.au/news/a-whitsundays-island-could-be-yours-for-the-price-of-a-fig-tree-pocket-home/?rsf=syn:news:nca:cp:article?rsf=syn:news:nca:cp:socref

 

FOR the median price of house in Fig Tree Pocket in Brisbane, or Minyama on the Sunshine Coast, you can purchase an entire island at the Whitsundays.

The 20ha Poole Island has been offered to the market for the first time in 40 years, and you can pick it up for just $1.2 million.

To put that in perspective, a one-bedroom unit in Sydney is on the market for $1.16 million.

You get a bit more bang for your buck in Melbourne, with a three bedroom unit up for grabs for $1.15 million. 

 

But neither of those options are located on the Great Barrier Reef, one of the Seven Wonders of the World. 

Australian Islands island and resort specialist Richard Vanhoff said he had already received hundreds of inquiries since the property launched on Monday (October 15).

“We’ve had probably well over 1000 inquires so far, which has been huge,” Mr Vanhoff said.

 

 

The island has its own 700ft runway to cater for small aircraft or helicopter from either Airlie Beach or Bowen.

 

 

The island has a large home facing the Coral Sea with a second house that was built in the late 1800s.

 

He said the property, now zoned residential, once had a commercial operation as the first place in Queensland to store frozen meat to be distributed internationally. Its deep water access meant large vessels could call in to collect meat to distribute it up and down the coast and even go overseas. 

 

 

The island was first developed as a commercial property in the 1800s and still has some evidence of its former existence.

“It was quite a substantial operation on the island and it was very exciting,” he said

Mr Vanhoff said the 93-year-old owner put the island up for sale as his family no longer visited it.

“It’s a place where he brought up his children for holidays and it’s just a family island,” he said.

 

 

Inside the main residence.

“They live in Melbourne and the kids now no longer want to trek that far to the island, which is often the case with islands, it’s the kids that end up determining whether they keep them or they move them on.

[VERYSTORMY]

We spent eight years in an area classed as regional, albeit on 50km from Perth. What we found was that other than trades, jobs were very thin on the ground, what jobs they were, were generally service industry, minimum wage and part time. 

Also, the reality is, most migrants are younger and want what the big cities have to offer, the restaurants, bars, theatre and lots of variety. Many have young children and want good schools and the availability of those tends to be in the cities. 

[JetBlast]

10 hours ago, Jupiter said:

Suppose you're in the ICT line of work. Staying in the countryside for several years waiting tables is a pointless life for someone who is skilled as a software engineer.

Just because it is rural doesn't mean there are no IT jobs. There are schools in rural areas. Schools need IT technicians.

Besides the city of Adelaide is classed as rural.

[Karstedt]

13 hours ago, Eera said:

I find it really frustrating that people seem to refuse to consider "regional" areas - even when those regional areas can be excess of 300000+ people.  We have huge, I mean HUGE problems recruiting employees - to the extent we offer wages 30% higher than they'll find in Metro areas, and still they bugger off at the first opportunity.  It's a waste of our time training them up when we lose them as soon as they become assets.

In the IT field we are sick to death of having to wait days to get someone flown up from Brisbane or whatever to do something to the server: there are regional opportunities, especially for companies who don't have a statewide presence and no IT pool to call on.  I also recall the recent thread from an IT professional who could not get a job in Melbourne despite the impression it was a golden area in the field.  Of course there are different areas within IT, all of which use acronyms I don't understand and may be based in localised areas, but the point is there are opportunities out there which don't involve waiting tables if you are willing to consider them.

Does you company nominate for PR? I was working in ICT during my AU studies (my occupation by experience) and found company nomination to be extremely scarce. The stats show most company nomination is in retail and food management... which makes sense for dodgy immigration.

5 hours ago, JetBlast said:

Just because it is rural doesn't mean there are no IT jobs. There are schools in rural areas. Schools need IT technicians.

Besides the city of Adelaide is classed as rural.

 

Apparently they don't need teachers though :). At least not graduate teachers (my occupation by academic study).

If you look at the regional visa criteria in every state, they are actually harder to qualify for. E.g. graduates (no experience) are not welcome in virtually every state (with some exceptions for certain in state graduates, or I would have applied, because I don't care about big cities). Bottom line, ff you meet the criteria for a regional visa, you most likely have enough points to get a less restrictive visa and go wherever you want. Hence the 'incentives' (extra points) are not really incentives, because they don't apply to the people that would need them. Trades being the exception, as tradesmen are snatched up for nomination nearly everywhere because they are the most needed and almost completely unwelcome via 189.

I'm not saying the regional criteria are a bad thing, they are probably just protecting themselves from being flooded by the unwanted pro-ratas the 189 program is already dumping on cites.

[Bshakya]

I'm also planning to apply for Australian PR via subclass 189. Don't know how it will be if new migrants are sent to Regional states, however, I prefer to be optimistic regarding wherever i go. This rule of Dictating new Migrants to the Regional States for initial few year,  how much probability is there of this getting implemented and if gets implemented how much it might take... can an approximation drawn on this ??

[Jupiter]

On 19/10/2018 at 21:54, JetBlast said:

Just because it is rural doesn't mean there are no IT jobs. There are schools in rural areas. Schools need IT technicians.

Besides the city of Adelaide is classed as rural.

IT technician is a different thing. The IT or ICT that migrants come to Australia for is programming/software engineering which you mainly find in big companies located in cities.

[JetBlast]

IT technician is a different thing. The IT or ICT that migrants come to Australia for is programming/software engineering which you mainly find in big companies located in cities.

I work in IT and don't come for programming or software engineering. I am a qualified Network Engineer but work as an IT Manager.

Granted though I wouldn't come to be a technician but would do it to get the years under my belt to be allowed to go to other areas of need be.

[Jupiter]

2 minutes ago, JetBlast said:

I work in IT and don't come for programming or software engineering. I am a qualified Network Engineer but work as an IT Manager.

Granted though I wouldn't come to be a technician but would do it to get the years under my belt to be allowed to go to other areas of need be.

Again, Network Engineering is a completely different line of work. Most Computer Science or IT degrees don't even focus on network engineering. It's all about programming in Java, C#, etc.

Feels like an inefficient system. Do something that's completely unrelated to what you know when you could be contributing with your skills.

[JetBlast]

1 minute ago, Jupiter said:

Again, Network Engineering is a completely different line of work. Most Computer Science or IT degrees don't even focus on network engineering. It's all about programming in Java, C#, etc.

Feels like an inefficient system. Do something that's completely unrelated to what you know when you could be contributing with your skills.

I am aware of that - you're missing the point. Australia don't really care about you, they just want people to work in the regional areas. They are looking after themselves and their citizens (understandably). Just because it is something you don't want to do doesn't matter.

Anyway I used to work with a group of software developers in Brisbane. A number of them worked from home a number of hours from the city.

[deryans]

This is interesting,  remote working or indeed most recent generation work can be remote, i..e  you should not need to be in the office 5 days a week to use your knowhow and expertise ( to be fair, easy to say with 25+ years experience - I agree a lot harder for someone just starting out)

The pre-requisite of course is a mature and capable comms network (aka NBN) and a mature and visionary company/leader  that trusts its workers to behave professionally and work remotely 

I think certain parts of australia  (i.e. adelaide) has some way to travel on both these counts.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by deryans