ENS visa hurdle

[drewbty]

Hi

i have a complex situation where I can soon apply for the 186 through ENS after 2+ years in my company on a 457. However, I have my suspicions that my company could liquidate come the new financial year.

 

If this happens, it would mean my application will be in the processing stage. 

Now, I know in this theoretical scenario I’m supposed to tell immi and withdraw the application, but I have worked too hard to get here and since I’m not an idiot..

Does anybody have knowledge on what would the chances be of the CO checking the company’s status when they look at it 5 months later or whatever?

Do CO’s only conduct company verification for 186 on dodgy applications or all applications?

drew 

 

[Raul Senise]

6 hours ago, drewbty said:

Hi

i have a complex situation where I can soon apply for the 186 through ENS after 2+ years in my company on a 457. However, I have my suspicions that my company could liquidate come the new financial year.

If this happens, it would mean my application will be in the processing stage. 

Now, I know in this theoretical scenario I’m supposed to tell immi and withdraw the application, but I have worked too hard to get here and since I’m not an idiot..

Does anybody have knowledge on what would the chances be of the CO checking the company’s status when they look at it 5 months later or whatever?

Do CO’s only conduct company verification for 186 on dodgy applications or all applications?

drew 

Very likely. 

The Department has uncovered high levels of fraud in the Employer Nomination Program (186/187) and have greatly increased scrutiny in the program.

[drewbty]

Thanks Raul.

Saying this, I imagine this fraud would have been concentrated on certain high risk occupation codes from high risk nationalities. My business is an Australian one, my occupation code is low risk and I come from a low risk country. 

 

So if any application wouldn’t be checked mine would certainly fit this criteria.

 

The question then becomes does anybody know do immi check the current employment status of all applications for 186 ENS when processing, or just some..

[Parkesy]

9 minutes ago, drewbty said:

Thanks Raul.

Saying this, I imagine this fraud would have been concentrated on certain high risk occupation codes from high risk nationalities. My business is an Australian one, my occupation code is low risk and I come from a low risk country. 

 

So if any application wouldn’t be checked mine would certainly fit this criteria.

 

The question then becomes does anybody know do immi check the current employment status of all applications for 186 ENS when processing, or just some..

They check all of them without a doubt and they do it meticulously.

[drewbty]

I know personally of one individual recently who is a cook. They rang the business and said does such and such still work there and does the position still exist,  they said yes and that was that. Not very meticulous and Chef is a high risk occupation code. 

The only way of knowing the exact procedure or criteria (if it exists) is from someone who is a CO or who knows one. That’s what I’m hoping for on here.

[Parkesy]

Well I wasnt sure what you meant "check". I was under the impression you meant go through all documentation with a fine toothcomb.

[drewbty]

The documentation will all be in check, and also it will be a totally legitimate application. I’m only speculating that my company could then cease to trade in that ~6 months period they take to process, and trying to get information then on what the process is from the CO’s and immi’s end, specifically if they verify employment directly with the company for all applications, or just some 

[Raul Senise]

3 hours ago, drewbty said:

Thanks Raul.

Saying this, I imagine this fraud would have been concentrated on certain high risk occupation codes from high risk nationalities. 

Not necessarily.

2 hours ago, drewbty said:

The only way of knowing the exact procedure or criteria (if it exists) is from someone who is a CO or who knows one. That’s what I’m hoping for on here.

I think it is unlikely that an Immigration Case officer is going to comment on a public forum.

10 minutes ago, drewbty said:

 trying to get information then on what the process is from the CO’s and immi’s end, specifically if they verify employment directly with the company for all applications, or just some 

I believe that this varies considerably.

I have had instances where the case officer has checked independent resources such as ASIC and found that a company was under administration.

The other serious issue to consider is that you would potentially be committing fraud and even if successful in the short term, you could potentially face visa cancellation in the future.

[VERYSTORMY]

You should be very aware of the last bit Raul says. 

If you commit fraud and are later discovered, you face having the PR cancelled and deported. Even years down the track. Potentially even if you go on and gain citizenship. That can also be cancelled. 

[Nemesis]

5 hours ago, drewbty said:

I know personally of one individual recently who is a cook. They rang the business and said does such and such still work there and does the position still exist,  they said yes and that was that. Not very meticulous and Chef is a high risk occupation code. 

The only way of knowing the exact procedure or criteria (if it exists) is from someone who is a CO or who knows one. That’s what I’m hoping for on here.

I've seen posts on migration over the years from a couple of people who claimed to be Case Officers. They both posted for the last time within a couple of days of joining, stating that they had been given a choice by their boss - your job or your forum postings.  no CO with any sense would post on somewhere like this!

[drewbty]

1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said:

You should be very aware of the last bit Raul says. 

If you commit fraud and are later discovered, you face having the PR cancelled and deported. Even years down the track. Potentially even if you go on and gain citizenship. That can also be cancelled. 

Guys I wouldn't be committing any fraud. It will be a legitimate application and the only reason why this might become a possibility is because of immigration's ridiculously long processing times. If they had reasonable processing times everything for sure would be all in order and I wouldn't even be writing this forum post. 

 

My understanding of the way the 186 visa works is the company applies for the visa, not me, and they are supposed to inform the department of any changes to the application. Am I missing anything here?

 

I'll also point out again that this is only a pure hypothetical. My company is still open and conducting business and I'm still employed by them. I'm just speculating on what would happen if they closed during this immigration processing time. 

[drewbty]

28 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

I've seen posts on migration over the years from a couple of people who claimed to be Case Officers. They both posted for the last time within a couple of days of joining, stating that they had been given a choice by their boss - your job or your forum postings.  no CO with any sense would post on somewhere like this!

People are narcissistic. CO's can easily post anonymously and enjoy the celebrity of it, or do it for sh$ts and giggles. Also I could get the answer I was hoping for by some regular forum goer recalling their case where they applied for a 186 through the ENS and nobody rang their company to reconfirm details months later when it's being looked at. 

[Guest The Pom Queen]

11 minutes ago, drewbty said:

People are narcissistic. CO's can easily post anonymously and enjoy the celebrity of it, or do it for sh$ts and giggles. Also I could get the answer I was hoping for by some regular forum goer recalling their case where they applied for a 186 through the ENS and nobody rang their company to reconfirm details months later when it's being looked at. 

As admin of the forum I can advise you that we have many CO’s who belong to our membership including someone very very high up. However, they are NOT permitted to post on the forum as per government contract of employment I presume.

From what I recall, we once had an ex CO who posted on here under a disguise but they stopped posting quite abruptly so I’m not sure if they were officially/legally advised to do so. 

[VERYSTORMY]

43 minutes ago, drewbty said:

Guys I wouldn't be committing any fraud. It will be a legitimate application and the only reason why this might become a possibility is because of immigration's ridiculously long processing times. If they had reasonable processing times everything for sure would be all in order and I wouldn't even be writing this forum post. 

 

My understanding of the way the 186 visa works is the company applies for the visa, not me, and they are supposed to inform the department of any changes to the application. Am I missing anything here?

 

I'll also point out again that this is only a pure hypothetical. My company is still open and conducting business and I'm still employed by them. I'm just speculating on what would happen if they closed during this immigration processing time. 

No. The company applies to nominate. You apply for the visa. You both have a duty of care to inform the department. 

[drewbty]

50 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

No. The company applies to nominate. You apply for the visa. You both have a duty of care to inform the department. 

Any common sense minded individual would just plead ignorance. Because you would want to be born yesterday to sabotage your own application for some sort of moral kudos. Especially when the only reason the situation would arise is because immi can't process applications in a timely manner. The company's position and interests would of course be different to the individuals.  

From the government website. They don't specifically lay out anything about the applicant having to inform about anything besides the following:

Changes to your circumstances

 

Tell us if your circumstances change. This includes a new residential address, a new passport, or a pregnancy, birth, divorce, separation, marriage, de facto relationship or death in your family.

You can use the following forms:

• Form 929 – Change of address and/or passport details (145KB PDF) — if you move to a new address or change your passport
• Form 1022 – Notification of changes in circumstances (150KB PDF) — if there are other changes in your circumstances.

 

[ring3018]

This is just my personal thought, with high risk occupations, even though I heard the lack of staffs in the department. I think they intend to put it aside and wait for a really long long time (obviously a lot of companies in 2 years will go bankrupt, change of ownership, etc..) then if that happened, they usually call and ask you to withdraw the file. They can take the money and not accept you (high risk) to become permanent resident. 

A chef one of my friends back in 2013 they processed really quickly maximum maybe 6 months and his file has processed for only 3 months. Personally they did it intentionally, plus the change of regulation like 3 years experiences post-qualification only last year knocks down a lot of graduates to sponsor a visa enhanced my way of thinking. 

As with your file, with the 30% refusal rate with 186, I guess they will check the company first, make a lot of calls, ask a lot of documents then if your company closed (or sale) before that date, they will know. And they will ask you to either withdraw your file or find a new sponsor.

Edited April 24, 2018 by ring3018