SOMV Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hello, The MIA have released the following information about the shape of things to come with the new TRA Pathway D (note: this is still only a "proposal" and more changes may be forthcoming - I certainly hope so): The proposed new approach is quite different to previous pathways but offers good prospects for many would-be migrant applicants to qualify on the basis of their trade skills. It is expected that the new policy will come into effect on 1 September 2008 but, to some extent, this will depend upon the feedback which DEEWR receives. Of particular interest: •1. Replacement for Pathway D. The old Pathway D allowed for a consideration of workplace experience alone. This will not be a feature of the new system. Under the new system, skills assessment will rely on qualifications, which can include licensing, industry certificates, recognition of prior learning (RPL) and gap training, with independent verification. All of this will, of course, depend on comparability with Australian equivalents. Training and workplace assessment can be conducted by an Australian Registered Training Organisation (RTO) either inside or outside Australia. Form 1 January 2009, training and assessments conducted outside Australia will be accepted only if that RTO is registered with AusLIST. Training or assessments conducted by RTOs within Australia are not subject to this restriction. TRA would expect any training by RTOs to take an appropriate length of time for any particular occupation. While each case will be assessed on its merits, a Certificate III gained in a few days would most likely be closely scrutinised! Training that seems to be extraordinarily short or quick would be unlikely to be the trainee skills commensurate with Australian standards and expectations. •2. 900 hours work experience. Work experience, now more clearly defined as employment, can be counted once the applicant has a Certificate III. The work does not have to be at a highly skilled level from the outset. In the case of Cooks, for example, while 900 hours spent peeling potatoes or working at McDonalds will not satisfy the requirements, in the earlier period of the 900 hours period they may have done some of those things. The important thing is that over the 900 hours they can show that they have developed their skills and abilities as a Cook, so that by the end of the time they are cooking a wide range of recipes at a skilled level. •3. TRA will be introducing fillable and downloadable application forms •4. A completed, ready-to-assess TRA application is essential. TRA will not ask for missing documentation, they will simply refuse the application. With over 30,000 applications each year, any other procedure would badly affect their processing times of 10 days for MODL occupations and 20 days for others. •5. There is a recognition by TRA that no migration agent is in a position to know the comparability of every qualification, licence, etc, for every country. TRA has always been open to agents calling them prior to lodging applications if they have genuine uncertainties. While TRA cannot, at that enquiry stage, make a definitive statement about the outcome of an application, they may be able to indicate potential problems or give other advice. •6. Review and appeal options will be available. •a. Review: Applicants may lodge an application (which can include new evidence) for review if they do not agree with the original assessment. This must be done within 90 days of the original assessment. There is a fee for this, which is refundable if the overturning of the original assessment is based on the evidence provided in the original application. If the review is unsuccessful, a fresh skills assessment application can be lodged at any time. •b. Appeal: Applicants may lodge an appeal where they do not agree with the review outcome. This must be done within 28 days of the review outcome and is free. If the appeal is unsuccessful, a new skills assessment application in the same occupation cannot be lodged for a period of 6 months from the date of the appeal outcome. From the above it looks like the RPL (recognition of prior learning) assessments which many applicants have begun relying on, will be the way to go. For the full draft document the link is here: http://mia.org.au/download/TRA_Migration_Assessment_Policy_2008.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hi Veronika Thank you very much indeed for this news. I have made the thread sticky until everyone affected has had a chance to digest it. In the meanwhile, the trainsing assessors in Oz, please. Do they intend to set up a website to make it easy to find the various assessors in the various fields, please? Thanks again Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMV Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 There are a few training assessors coming to the UK too. When I get more concrete information about them (I am sure there will be quite a few coming out of the woodwork), I will post up more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshtone Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Looks a good proposal for Brits as I am sure the NVQ2 workplace assessment will be recognised by TRA. Those that have the classroom NVQ/C&G and did not study for 900 hours plus may alsio benefit now and be OK without doing workplace assessment. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMV Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 I would have thought at least NVQ3 would be needed. But let's see. To be perfectly honest Tony, we have been finding that the TRA has been very generous with assessments since Pathway D was removed. But if I've understood it correctly it still leaves those unfortunate tradesmen with absolutely no qualifications in the lurch. They will have to fork out a lot of money (more than even the Vetassess/Tradeassess charges, by the looks of it) for RPLs. And it still remains an unfair system: why should some countries have been singled out for new Tradeassess assessments? And while some people from the UK may be able to afford the Tradeassess or RPL charges, what about trades people from other countries where this is simply not a consideration? If Australia does want to fill gaps in the trades sector then why isn't everyone given a fair, equal platform to be able to prove that they are experienced trades people. I am sorry, I am launching into a rant. This is not the place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stue116 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 From what i can make of it that's us out, I cannot believe it, there are no qualifications for locksmiths in this country and AFQ don't have one either. I have emailed our agent to see if there is anything we can do, but i'm just gutted. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMV Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Sam is your OH not a member of UKLA? Has he not completed any training courses? I wouldn't give up yet, the proposal is still only a proposal, and they may iron out some of these issues. You should also remember that just because you may not qualify for the skilled permanent route, there are other visas available! Your agent should be able to tell you about all of your options, not just the skilled options. I will email the MIA to point out the problem locksmiths may have. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stue116 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 He has been on many training courses, but they are only weekend courses run by other locksmiths who give training it's nothing official, no city and guilds or nvq's, he has certificates but there only from the companies who run these courses, he has great references and had run his own locksmith business for 8 years. We have been trying to get a sponsor from last sept when TRa made the changes, we had sent our paperwork in but they sent it back it it missed the deadline by 3 days. Have got our agent looking at it all now, just phoned her in tears, poor thing i probably frightned the life out of her. thanks you for your help, Sam:sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bella Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 From what i can make of it that's us out, I cannot believe it, there are no qualifications for locksmiths in this country and AFQ don't have one either.I have emailed our agent to see if there is anything we can do, but i'm just gutted. Sam Think I'm in a similar situation, an ccupation that is skilled but carries no formal or vocational training. From my thorough research It appears there is no AQF III for Electroplaters also, i've read the ASCO defination of what an electroplater is required to be able to do and its incredibley basic, i could train someone in a few weeks to pass an assessment, I could pass the criteria while still asleep.but i digress, even if there was an AQF II, no one can as yet provide a way to get an assessment done in the UK, and thats before i tackle the hostile nature of my employee. Yet I am being told by the TRA I need to get one to have my skills recognised, Electroplater is on both the SOL and ENSOL lists and i have an employer with a job offer in Metropolitan Melbourne who can't fill the position locally, as its in metropolitan Melbourne i don't think I get state sponsorship (not that would make much difference as i'd still need TRA recognition). So as you can imagine its a little disconcerting to be told I need a certificate that may not exsist, and even if it does, in all likelihood i won't be able to gain it within the UK. I've spoken to my prospective employer and i have more experience than any of his current employers (he didnt have a clue what an AQF certificate III was btw) and i have experience in areas non of his current workers have. I've emailed a few questions to the TRA to find out if they can provide any helpful information, possible exceptions to the prescibed route, or possible solutions to this situation, fingers crossed for a helpful reply. But looks like my best option is for my prospective employer to sponsor me but there are obvious drawbacks to this option. mostly the temporary nature of the visa, and the terrifying prospect of having 28 days to find a new sponsor or leave Australia if things don't work out as hoped. As yet its unclear as if they will be able to sponsor me under the current guidelines even if they are willing to. We're ready to go and employ an agent, GoMatilda to be more precise as the information and help so far provided has been excellent and i really couldn't ask for more before employing them formally. but obviously have a bit of reluctance to part with cash if this issue over trade recognition can't be resolved. obviously the hope is the agent will have some answers as well, the fear is they won't. I understand I can't expect them to keep providing free advice. guess I'm at the bite the bullet stage but i like to make decisions based on a full understanding of where I stand and my prospects of success. Just wish there was more readily available information or official bodies could answer questions, often you find yourself being passed from one organization to another in a circle asking the same questions and getting nowhere. yours frustrated Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMV Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hello Tony, I will also email them about electroplaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshtone Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I would have thought at least NVQ3 would be needed. But let's see. To be perfectly honest Tony, we have been finding that the TRA has been very generous with assessments since Pathway D was removed. But if I've understood it correctly it still leaves those unfortunate tradesmen with absolutely no qualifications in the lurch. They will have to fork out a lot of money (more than even the Vetassess/Tradeassess charges, by the looks of it) for RPLs. And it still remains an unfair system: why should some countries have been singled out for new Tradeassess assessments? And while some people from the UK may be able to afford the Tradeassess or RPL charges, what about trades people from other countries where this is simply not a consideration? If Australia does want to fill gaps in the trades sector then why isn't everyone given a fair, equal platform to be able to prove that they are experienced trades people. I am sorry, I am launching into a rant. This is not the place for it. Hi Veronika The NVQ2 quals I was referring to are the workplace based qualifications available for many trades in the UK - I think these will eb accepted by TRA with 4 years experience. Locksmith has problems as there are no relevant NVQ quals and licensing is for employers rather than employees. Maybe after the dust settles we can lobby for certain trades that are disadvantaged especially if they are on MODL. Electroplater would have a better chance and TRA may accept workplace NVQ2 in City & Guilds Materials Processing and Finishing NVQ Level 2 - Applying Coatings and Coverings Pilot IMS Birmingham Funded Training Development Programmes You are right, the new guidelines will favour UK tradepersons. Anyway, these are just draft proposals and the MIA and members have been asked to comment on these - I am not sure this was intended for public release at this stage. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The great escape Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hi Veronika, I hope you may be able to clarify something for me. I am a chef with no formal qualifications who was waiting for pathway D to reopen! I decieded to come clean with my boss and tell him that I wish to move to oz along with the family and he kindly put me on a vocational based NVQ2 in catering and an NVQ3 in management. The NVQ2 will be finished by september (it really is like teaching granny how to suck eggs). And the NVQ3 should be completed by Christmas. Will this be enough for me with the new system or will I need to complete further training? Any help would be grately appreciated. Chris, Jo & Lolly (10months) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bella Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 cheers Tony for that info on the NVQ 2, guess with my concentration on the AQF III possible new British qualifications slipped under the radar. Think I'll be giving them a call on Monday to see if taking one is a practical possibility. Especially with regard to time, and I'll still have the hurdle of a Difficult employer to overcome. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMV Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 Hello Chris, Jo and Lolly, I am afraid I don't have the answer to your question yet. I suspect that the NVQII may be enough to get you in as a cook (it doesn't matter whether you are assessed as a cook or chef, both are on the MODL) but the proposed new Pathway D material does not make clear whether you can count pre-qualification work experience. It's yet another question that must be answered before a final version of the new Pathway D rules is released. I will let you know as soon as I have an answer to your question. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flixy Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 My OH is currently doing online training with a registered RTO, he is working towards a certificate II in Telecommunications, this wil enable him to get an Australian open cable registration license. He has a license to work on the BT network here and has 20 years work experience. Do you think any of this will help him pass the TRA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 From what i can make of it that's us out, I cannot believe it, there are no qualifications for locksmiths in this country and AFQ don't have one either.I have emailed our agent to see if there is anything we can do, but i'm just gutted. Sam There is an AQF Certificate III for Locksmiths. The problems is that the TAFE that assesses that occupation (I believe there to be only one) requires funds to be committed to prepare an assessment process based on existing competencies (ie an RPL assessment), with the assesment requiring a trip to Australia (this TAFE is nor - presently - sending assessors to the UK, and so far as I know has no plans to do so). We have a few Locksmiths on our database, and when I am back in Australia after my holiday (I am overseas presently) I will be trying to progress this issue with all I know of with this occupation. If you have not yet sent me your details feel able to email them to me: alan - at - gomatilda - dot - com Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hi Veronika, I hope you may be able to clarify something for me. I am a chef with no formal qualifications who was waiting for pathway D to reopen! I decieded to come clean with my boss and tell him that I wish to move to oz along with the family and he kindly put me on a vocational based NVQ2 in catering and an NVQ3 in management. The NVQ2 will be finished by september (it really is like teaching granny how to suck eggs). And the NVQ3 should be completed by Christmas. Will this be enough for me with the new system or will I need to complete further training? Any help would be grately appreciated. Chris, Jo & Lolly (10months) I wonder whether you are aware that there is an Australian assessor who attends the UK carrying out workplace assessments for Cooks and Chefs, leading to the issuing of an AQF Certificate III. Feel able to send me an email or a PM from this website if you are interested. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 PS. I am attending a seminar presented by TRA delegates in about 10 days from now. I will be bringing together a schedule of generic questions for submission before I attend ... no guarantee of answers, but one can but try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hi All Alan Collett of Go Matilda has now published an article about the new proposals, which is here: Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzy27 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hi, my OH is a panel beater and we came out to Oz on a 457 in April of this year. Our employer is prepared to sponsor us to permanent, but would be nice if we could get it sooner than 2 years. He has got his license here in NSW to practice panel beating, does that mean that the TRA would accept that? He has been a panle beater for over 7 years, but has no qualifications. On the gomatilda site, it says either you have your skill assessed, OR a have their competencies confirmed by a recognised industrial or occupational licence Not sure if we qualify, any clear-up would be cool. thanks, Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshtone Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hi Liz No, he would come under the Australian Stream and need a workplace assessment AQF Cert III. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshtone Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 My OH is currently doing online training with a registered RTO, he is working towards a certificate II in Telecommunications, this wil enable him to get an Australian open cable registration license. He has a license to work on the BT network here and has 20 years work experience. Do you think any of this will help him pass the TRA? Hi Flixy Looks to me tha the will require either an AQF Cert III OR TRA to recognise the UK license ha has. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flixy Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 My OH is currently doing online training with a registered RTO, he is working towards a certificate II in Telecommunications, this wil enable him to get an Australian open cable registration license. He has a license to work on the BT network here and has 20 years work experience. Do you think any of this will help him pass the TRA? Any ideas anyone please?:unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The allums Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hi Alan, could you please give us details of the AQFIII certificate and how we get in touch with the Australian assessor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Hi Alan,could you please give us details of the AQFIII certificate and how we get in touch with the Australian assessor. Please send me an email (alan - at - gomatilda - dot - com), or a PM, and include details of your occupation. Thanks. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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