Melbourne 4 months in

[Guest EvieB]

Doug and Pinhead, you have both managed to make the points I was trying to make - maybe more clearly than I did since I only managed to earn myself some cutting sarcasm rather than understanding of what I was trying to say! (By the way Buck, my post regarding living on £12,500 was a genuine plea - and not meant to be sarcastic!)

 

Thanks - good to know I haven't totally lost the plot...

[Guest Durathor]

I don't really remember anyone posting here saying they are moving to oz for a better salary.

 

Most are either moving for

a) better quality of life (this may include a pay cut for more time with family etc)

b) things in the UK are so intolerable, poor, getting worse etc

 

You're quite right I have been trying to get across that it's not clear cut that you will be much better or worse, people's circumstances are different as are their relative salaries to their oz equivalent.

 

a) A better standard of 'life' is, in part, measured financially. Like it or not. By that measure Melbourne, and the rest of Australia, bears comparison, perhaps even worse, than the UK. Basic essentials here are mindboggling. $30 for a pair of tights, $17 for a chicken in Safeway. No 2 for 1, no Tesco, no Primark, No Woolworths. Everything, absolutely everything is expensive. Say goodbye to $50 as soon as you walk out your front door. Pop in the local store, $100 on practically nothing.

Why do you get 'more time with family' here?

Are you working less hours? If so, you must have come for a pay rise. Because I fail to see how you took a pay cut and have more time at home. Are you a Time Lord?

Specify what defines 'quality of life'.

 

b) The idea of the UK being intolerable is what the ex-pats say when they want to feel better about themselves.

It's a choice. Two different ways of living.

The Uk is a remarkable country, London the greatest City on earth. Makes Melbourne look like a northern new town.

The living can be hard in the UK, the climate imtemperate. It is busy and crowded.

It is also beautiful.

 

We are customers. We choose where we take our skills and money.

Part of Melbourne, and Australia's, selling points was it's affordability. Offering the dispossesed a life they couldn't dream of in the UK.

 

That's gone, so what makes Melbourne a place you are willing to travel to the other side of the world for?

 

You must be specific and not peddle myths.

[Petals]

Glad my Safeway is not like yours I paid $7.00 for a chicken already to roast on Monday.

 

You are talking Australian prices if you are you are shopping in the wrong places.

 

We are all different like different things if we were all the same it would be a boring world

[Guest Pinhead]

a) A better standard of 'life' is, in part, measured financially. Like it or not. By that measure Melbourne, and the rest of Australia, bears comparison, perhaps even worse, than the UK. Basic essentials here are mindboggling. $30 for a pair of tights, $17 for a chicken in Safeway. No 2 for 1, no Tesco, no Primark, No Woolworths. Everything, absolutely everything is expensive. Say goodbye to $50 as soon as you walk out your front door. Pop in the local store, $100 on practically nothing.

Why do you get 'more time with family' here?

Are you working less hours? If so, you must have come for a pay rise. Because I fail to see how you took a pay cut and have more time at home. Are you a Time Lord?

Specify what defines 'quality of life'.

 

b) The idea of the UK being intolerable is what the ex-pats say when they want to feel better about themselves.

It's a choice. Two different ways of living.

The Uk is a remarkable country, London the greatest City on earth. Makes Melbourne look like a northern new town.

The living can be hard in the UK, the climate imtemperate. It is busy and crowded.

It is also beautiful.

 

We are customers. We choose where we take our skills and money.

Part of Melbourne, and Australia's, selling points was it's affordability. Offering the dispossesed a life they couldn't dream of in the UK.

 

That's gone, so what makes Melbourne a place you are willing to travel to the other side of the world for?

 

You must be specific and not peddle myths.

 

Oh good grief! you need a sanity check mate!:SLEEP:

 

I posted 'quality' not 'standard' of life.

I didn't define 'quality of life' that's what most people post here as the one of the main reasons for moving to Oz. You'd have to ask them how they define it.

People chose to give up the pursuit of money & material things in order to spend more time with their families, this includes making a career change, doing contracting work, going part time,etc. Yes this may include a drop in earnings as I stated. Life is about choices & consquences.

 

Woolworths are all over Australia, you've never seen a 'Big W'? Try the QV centre, 'Woolworths' is next to Safeway.

 

You say that 'London the greatest City on earth', that is your opinion only. People in Manhatten feel the same way about New York, as do the French in Paris,etc.

Melbourne is voted year on year in the top 2 'most liveable cities in the world', so it's not just PIO posters who love it!

 

Melbourne & Austrlia's 'affordibility' was never a selling point for me, how many people have actually posted that?

[tracy123]

a) A better standard of 'life' is, in part, measured financially. Like it or not. By that measure Melbourne, and the rest of Australia, bears comparison, perhaps even worse, than the UK. Basic essentials here are mindboggling. $30 for a pair of tights, $17 for a chicken in Safeway. No 2 for 1, no Tesco, no Primark, No Woolworths. Everything, absolutely everything is expensive. Say goodbye to $50 as soon as you walk out your front door. Pop in the local store, $100 on practically nothing.

Why do you get 'more time with family' here?

Are you working less hours? If so, you must have come for a pay rise. Because I fail to see how you took a pay cut and have more time at home. Are you a Time Lord?

Specify what defines 'quality of life'.

 

b) The idea of the UK being intolerable is what the ex-pats say when they want to feel better about themselves.

It's a choice. Two different ways of living.

The Uk is a remarkable country, London the greatest City on earth. Makes Melbourne look like a northern new town.

The living can be hard in the UK, the climate imtemperate. It is busy and crowded.

It is also beautiful.

 

We are customers. We choose where we take our skills and money.

Part of Melbourne, and Australia's, selling points was it's affordability. Offering the dispossesed a life they couldn't dream of in the UK.

 

That's gone, so what makes Melbourne a place you are willing to travel to the other side of the world for?

 

You must be specific and not peddle myths.

 

Is it not the case that alot of towns in the UK are not happy that Tesco, asda and the likes are coming in and driving out the small business man? UK towns are losing there identity as you drive through them they all seem to look the same?

Quality of life to me is watching my kids grow playing with them teaching them life skills. Yes we need money to make life easy but when you have no money life can be just as great. Sausages instead of steak on a BBQ at a park in some rolls while the kids are running around fantastic.

You need to make the best of what you have. If your wanting something that is out of reach (for whatever reason) you will never be happy with what you have. you may not be able to afford to buy so you rent, at least your not sleeping on the street. you may have to eat baked beans its better than looking through a bin? and so on.

Enjoy life wake up with a smile it makes live so much better, it also improves your own Quality of life

 

Geoffrey

[Guest Durathor]

"I posted 'quality' not 'standard' of life."

 

 

 

They are much the same thing, unless you live in a parallel universe.

 

You are right that it is a matter of opinion. But an opinion is a response based on a reasoned appraisal of the facts, both positive and negative.

 

Some have been trying to point out that there are a lot of negatives to Australian life (Melbourne in particular in this thread) as well as positives. The same goes for life in the UK. It is a matter of being honest, weighing up the pro's and the cons.

 

As Buck pointed out, you refuse to acknowledge any downside. As this is an impossibility in any honest assessment of Melbourne, I find your opinion faintly ridiculous.

Melbourne, and Australia, has many faults and downsides. The escalating cost of living, in my opinion, makes living here, as opposed to the UK, a very marginal choice.

The climate, outdoor living, cafe culture, beach and less cluttered roads are keeping me here at the moment.

But I still miss an English spring, the beautiful ancient backdrop, the rain (even!), the wonderful BBC (there are only so many cop shows and Big Brother anyone can stand) and the excitement of London.

 

Life here isn't better, it is different. You have to choose and it's a difficult decision.

 

By the way, I haven't seen a $7 chicken, but I'll take your word. Hope it isn't past it's sell-by date!

[Guest Pinhead]

I never said that Melbourne or Australia didn't have any downsides but I believe that the downsides of the UK are far greater than than Oz and the upsides of Oz are far greater than those in the UK.

This is my personal opinion which I am entitled to.

 

Quality is not the same as standard, money and material things are not the 'be all or end all' of living. Your opinion seems to be that the biggest factor of living in Australia is it's cost, I don't agree with that.

Different people have different priorities in life and different motivations. I don't believe that moving anywhere just because it is cheaper is the right critieria to make a decision.

 

 

A lot of the things you think are downsides of Melbourne are of no concern to me because either

a) they are not things I will miss or are interested in

b) don't effect me

c) I am willing to give up because I believe the benefits out weigh these.

 

I am glad that you think that living in the UK is not better than living in Oz, it is just different.

 

PS I think you will be extremely shocked on your return as to how much the cost of living & taxes have increased in the UK over the last couple of years. The cost of living is increasing all around world not just in Oz.

[Guest moonraker1961]

Good thread Southrik,you're absolutely right,Oz is'nt a better place to live,its just different!Did I just hear on my radio (Adelaide radio which I stream through the computer)escalating gas/electricity charges about to hit families in Oz??????

[Kabroom]

Pinhead. It just occurred to me that you might still be stuck in a timewarp (which is kind of my point with this whole thread and some of the info posted on this site). Your argument about how you can live in Oz on $27k but can't live in the UK on £12.5k - at an exchange rate of 2 to 1, $27 is not equal to £12.5, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison. I think you might still be stuck in the good ol' 2.5 to 1 exchange rate days. Secondly, it occurred to me that my nephew who has not long passed his apprenticeship is earning less than £12k and yet has his own house and pays his own bills, etc. So, that is 2 of your myths 'busted'!!

As for the tax issue... it sounds like you know a bit about this. I admit that this is something that I don't know a great deal about - I read something about it before I came here, then while I was in the Comm bank getting my account setup the bank reminded me about it (you could argue they have a vested interest in me bringing my money over, and so are biassed) - if I find out this is not the case and they have lied to me I won't be happy. However, friends of ours who have just moved here brought up the subject with us only last week. So somewhere out there is a story that you will be taxed after 6 months - I will leave it up to the readers to investigate for themselves but as I have now been here 4 months I will be checking up on it in the coming weeks. Having said all that I have had a quick search on the web for info about it and can't find anything, so it could also be a myth!! Or as you say I have possibly got confused with the pension thing, etc.

 

 

Hi Buckbuchanan,

 

Have you got any further with the 40% tax after six months??

 

I cannot comment on the difference in my standard/quality or whatever you want to call it life as I am not there yet but this thread stopped being about the cost of living for me as soon as the 40% tax bit was brought into it.

 

I have to say I was led to believe that it was longer than 6 months and now I am starting to wonder again because we haven't sold our house and it doesn't look like it is going to sell before we leave.

 

So any more info then can you please post it.

 

Thanks

Wendy

[Guest EvieB]

My sister (who has lived in Melbourne for 13 years) was slightly bemused to see the prices posted by Southrick and is also wondering where he/she goes shopping... Anyway, don't take my word for it - have a look at Welcome to Woolworths HomeShop - Australia's premier online grocery shopping & delivery service the Woolworths/Safeway home shopping site and you can see prices for yourselves. Coles also do online shopping but I'm not sure if you can look at prices without registering.

 

Having been a regular visitor to Melbourne for a long time (3 times in the last 12 months alone - I think that counts?) I can say that it is perfectly true that it is no more a utopia than anywhere else. I certainly don't think that I or anyone else on here, refuse to acknowledge any downside. However, anyone who hasn't been in the UK over the last 4-6 months is surely in for a shock if they go back. It is totally unbelievable how much has changed in a very short time - particularly with regard to food and fuel prices. Things are changing in Melbourne too - but from a lower starting point. So for a lot of us, it still looks relatively cheap. That is our reality. For others, it may be different.

[Guest Pinhead]

Perhaps there should be a forum 'Just returned to the UK, oh my god how expensive have things become?!':biglaugh:

 

Due to the link between gas & oil prices in Europe (not a link globally), (home) energy prices are forecasted to increase 40% this year having already risen 15% this year.

[The Broughtons]

a) A better standard of 'life' is, in part, measured financially. Like it or not.

Why do you get 'more time with family' here?

Are you working less hours? If so, you must have come for a pay rise. Because I fail to see how you took a pay cut and have more time at home. Are you a Time Lord?

Specify what defines 'quality of life'.

 

I have been following this thread as I was interested to begin with how Buck was settling into life in Melbourne.

 

Reading this posters comment got me thinking. I stopped and thought about my pay in the UK and my pay in Oz. I'm a teacher - in the UK I was on £33,500. I worked stupid hours - work did not just stop because I left the building, there was planning and corrections to do and endless reams of paperwork. There were meetings 3 if not 4 times a week, parents evenings, concerts, sports events and the requirement to run at least one after school club each week. I spent at least one day of the weekend working and if I went home empty handed at the end of a day I felt guilty thinking there must be something else to do. I earn $57,000 here which in my opinion is a drop in salary (I must add teachers in Victoria were until recently the worst paid in Australia and in the Catholic Education system we have not been awarded the pay rise that the rest of the state have been awarded). I do, however, believe that my job satisfaction has increased. There is less pressure on me to complete unnecessary paperwork, children are not made to jump through hoops to pass tests at a particular level, I still plan and correct work to the same standard I did in the UK but I work less hours at home. I spend more time with my OH.

Onto my OH situation. He worked for Weetabix as a Loader / HGV Class 1 Driver. He earned roughly £35,000 a year. Here in Oz he is a postie - he earns $33,000. Now this is a huge difference in our opinion but (and this is the important part) he works Monday to Friday, no night shifts, no weekend shifts, 7.5 hour shifts as opposed to 12 hours and we have quality time together and to pursue activities that we want to. We have a large circle of friends that we spend time with, we're not too tired to socialise anymore and shift work doesn't interfere either!

Life in Australia isn't cheap - I have to earn a days pay to fill both of our cars with petrol. Food isn't as cheap as it used to be and mortgage repayments are going to be high.

We don't care - we are happier than we have ever been together. We are where we want to be enjoying the quality of life we have. We don't struggle for money (obviously a little more wouldn't go amiss) but our standard of life is not poor by any means.

 

Sorry if I have waffled but it is possible to improve your quality of life without thinking of money all of the time.

 

Felicity:cute:

[Guest Pinhead]

Good post, a prime example of what I was eluding to.

 

I think at the end of the day most people 'could do with a little more money'. What's more important is getting you priorities right and what's in the best interests for you and your family.

[Guest EvieB]

What a lovely post, Felicity. And so good to hear from someone actually 'doing it' that the benefits we in the UK perceive, are real and not just figments of our rose-coloured imaginations(!) Like us, you and your family are obviously 'glass half-full' people, rather than 'glass half-empty' and I think this will help you to be happy and appreciate the really important things in life wherever you are. I'm not at all surprised to hear you have a large circle of friends and no offence to anyone else, but I really hope it is you I bump into when we finally get to Oz!

[Guest Durathor]

Look, I wish you all the very best of luck. I do appreciate that, when you are making this move, a certain part of you wants to cover your ears and scream la la la at the first sign of negativity. It's probably a necessary part of embarking on such a brave and ambitious adventure. But I also feel that these boards often resemble a Judith Chalmers charm offensive rather than any rigorous examination of the pros and cons of emigration. They should be far more interesting and supportive to those here and far more informative to those looking to make the move. The expense, the landscape or how it feels to leave everything behind, everything you have ever known...

I note that there is another, rather bitter, thread that concerns Brits heading back home with not much good to say. That is not very informative either. Just puts the willys up any prospective ex-pat without the debate.

My experience here has been fascinating. Mostly it has utterly re-educated me on the matter of expectation versus reality. I am quite an experienced traveller, but Melbourne has been a very up and down experience. The challenges I have faced here are not the ones I expected. I know I'm not alone because all the ex-pats I meet are having exactly the same conversations. That doesn't mean it's all negative, far from it, just that we are experiencing similar positives and difficulties.

 

I don't find the 'money isn't everything' or 'you are obviously a half full glass person' as helpful or informative. Australia isn't a spiritual journey. It's a life to be lived.

 

Every day you wake up, pay bills and work. That's the reality. Everything else is subjective.

[AnxiousMum]

I cant believe that a post by someone (Buck) with in my opinion severe jetlag as caused all this offense and disagreements and down right stupidity.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and there is a lot to be said for the people who have said on here that we need both sides of the coin. BUT I find it unbelieveable how far this thread has been going on. It has in my opinion gone on long enough, it has also somewhat put me off going to Melbourne.

 

The only reason we am still going is because we, unlike some (you know who you are!!!) actually going to go over to Melbourne and have a real good look around before we make such a HUGE decision about the rest of our lives.

 

To the people who are getting frustrated about the neg posts from Buck, just remember this, they turned up in OZ having never been there before in their lives. Who are the foolish ones really.:arghh:

[Guest Pinhead]

Anxiousmum

 

Don't be put off or persuaded by comments made by people, only you and your family will know whether Melbourne or any of Oz is suitable for you.

I've been to OZ twice and lived in Melbourne for 6 months previously so unless it's changed dramatically for the worse in the last couple of years then I know exactly what I'm letting myself in for.

 

IMO anyone who packs up their family and sells up everything to move to oz without doing a reccie trip should have their head examined but people still do it and when it doesn't live up to their expectations they feel upset and start to blame themselves others or the country.

 

Remember Oz is not the UK & Melbourne is not London, but surely that's the point and why most people are going there.

[AnxiousMum]

Thanks Pinhead, I was just letting off steam really, just cant believe the nerve of some people. There is no way I would ever just up and leave my country to live somewhere else in the world without going there first, it seems totally ridiculous to me. I realise some people cant afford to go on a visit, but this is one of the most important decisions of your life, you need to see it first surely

[tracy123]

, it has also somewhat put me off going to Melbourne.

 

The only reason we am still going is because we, unlike some (you know who you are!!!) actually going to go over to Melbourne and have a real good look around before we make such a HUGE decision about the rest of our lives.

 

 

 

Dont be put off Melbourne, have you checked out my thread with all the photos on it? if not its on the Victoria thread.

Melbourne is a great state but like everywhere its not for some, and there is nothing wrong with that. Like every state in Australia it will have something for everyone its just trying to find it, I like the CBD of Melbourne myself I like the parks, walking along the the wide tree lined open streets. The shops aren't the best but has some great factory outlets on Church street (just past the MCG)

Australia comes down to what you want out of life. People who have come to Australia in the last few years with $2.50 for a £1 high property prices in the UK lower in OZ are still going home because its not what they wanted, it comes down to personal choice and wether you can cope with change. (no disrespect to those coming home)

 

Hope this helps

 

Geoffrey

[margaret]

Hello,new arrivals i thought your impressions of melbo were interesting.i like theparks and the fact the schools are used for sports etc for the children.I like to hop on a train and get out on a train and see new places.daylesford is a nice town one can book a place from the tourist office as long it is mon-thurs.as for laid back aussies i have not met any it,s all by the book i think they are up to their necks in rules..... best of luck marg

[margaret]

Hello,new arrivals i thought your impressions of melbo were interesting.i like theparks and the fact the schools are used for sports etc for the children.I like to hop on a train and get out on a train and see new places.daylesford is a nice town one can book a place from the tourist office as long it is mon-thurs.as for laid back aussies i have not met any it,s all by the book i think they are up to their necks in rules..... best of luck marg

[Guest Pinhead]

The shops aren't the best but has some great factory outlets on Church street (just past the MCG)

 

Geoffrey

 

Geoffrey

Are the outlets Oz designer (clothes) outlets or overseas?

Or are they non clothing related?

 

Thanks

 

Shopping isn't a big thing for me so that's one of the things I'm happy to give up moving to Oz that other people find difficult.

[tracy123]

Geoffrey

Are the outlets Oz designer (clothes) outlets or overseas?

Or are they non clothing related?

 

Thanks

 

Shopping isn't a big thing for me so that's one of the things I'm happy to give up moving to Oz that other people find difficult.

 

Everything! Melbourne is big on Factory outlets, not the ones that are under one roof either. You can go on shopping spree tours on the big pink Bus believe me or not i have driven that thing around when i worked for sita coaches.

Great way to buy your manchester, white goods clothes leather goods etc you can buy a guide book to factory outlets in Melbourne. well worth the drive to find these places they are spread out though

 

[Guest Pinhead]

Cheer, I'll keep that in mind for next year.

[Guest gary12]

Look, I wish you all the very best of luck. I do appreciate that, when you are making this move, a certain part of you wants to cover your ears and scream la la la at the first sign of negativity. It's probably a necessary part of embarking on such a brave and ambitious adventure. But I also feel that these boards often resemble a Judith Chalmers charm offensive rather than any rigorous examination of the pros and cons of emigration. They should be far more interesting and supportive to those here and far more informative to those looking to make the move. The expense, the landscape or how it feels to leave everything behind, everything you have ever known...

I note that there is another, rather bitter, thread that concerns Brits heading back home with not much good to say. That is not very informative either. Just puts the willys up any prospective ex-pat without the debate.

My experience here has been fascinating. Mostly it has utterly re-educated me on the matter of expectation versus reality. I am quite an experienced traveller, but Melbourne has been a very up and down experience. The challenges I have faced here are not the ones I expected. I know I'm not alone because all the ex-pats I meet are having exactly the same conversations. That doesn't mean it's all negative, far from it, just that we are experiencing similar positives and difficulties.

 

I don't find the 'money isn't everything' or 'you are obviously a half full glass person' as helpful or informative. Australia isn't a spiritual journey. It's a life to be lived.

 

Every day you wake up, pay bills and work. That's the reality. Everything else is subjective.

 

Hello Mr / Mrs / Miss Southwick

 

We are going to Melbourne (Werribee or Warrandyte) in January.

 

I am genuinely interested in the background to your journey and your experience.

 

What led you to Melbourne in the first place?

 

What are the problems / challenges you have faced?

 

From our point of view, due to the demise in manufacturing in the UK I can no longer earn a living to support a reasonable lifestyle. Jobs I have been offered in Melbourne pay approximately 20% - 30% more than in the UK depending upon what you base the exchange rate on.

 

Thanks

Gary