Melbourne 4 months in

[Guest JoanneHattersley]

My hours are less and I am earning the same as in UK. Marks hours are 8-10 per week more and he is earning the same as UK.

 

Cost of living however has gone up in the time we have been here - 3 and a half years! The standard of living has changed

 

My parents are going to be VERY out of pocket with the current exchange rate!

 

I value it here though not on the amount of money but quality of my life. I see my OH more than ever and that counts for more than any money could ever justify!

[Guest Pinhead]

The average salary in the UK is around £25K & Oz is around $55K (i.e 2.2 times).

If you earn the average salary in both countries and the cost of living in the UK is £12.5K & $27.5K respectively you are no worse or no better off. The exchange rate is irrelevent. It's your earning power in relation to the cost of living that is important not your earning power & exchange rate to the UK.

Yes IF you are bringing over money from the UK the current exchange rate is important but there's nothing to say you have to convert your cash immediately when you move. Most people will rent for 6-12 months before buying somewhere to live anyway.

 

The fact that you could live on $27.5K (net) in Oz but not £12.5K (net) in the UK is a completely different matter!

[tracy123]

The average salary in the UK is around £25K & Oz is around $55K (i.e 2.2 times).

If you earn the average salary in both countries and the cost of living in the UK is £12.5K & $27.5K respectively you are no worse or no better off. The exchange rate is irrelevent. It's your earning power in relation to the cost of living that is important not your earning power & exchange rate to the UK.

Yes IF you are bringing over money from the UK the current exchange rate is important but there's nothing to say you have to convert your cash immediately when you move. Most people will rent for 6-12 months before buying somewhere to live anyway.

 

The fact that you could live on $27.5K (net) in Oz but not £12.5K (net) in the UK is a completely different matter!

 

Hi Pinhead

People learn to live on what they earn. I often wonder how someone not working can live on the hand outs or low wages? and someone who earns good wages can complain they have no money? You always spend what you earn. People need to weigh up what they want out of life.

Geoffrey

[the hutchies]

Hi Pinhead

People learn to live on what they earn. I often wonder how someone not working can live on the hand outs or low wages? and someone who earns good wages can complain they have no money? You always spend what you earn. People need to weigh up what they want out of life.

Geoffrey

 

i couldn't agree with you more!!

personally i think a better quality of life as a family is more important to us than money if you haven't got it you can't spend it, i wouldn't say no to any extra cash tho!!!

Lisax

[Guest earlswood]

I thought Petrh was bad but Melbourne sounds just as bad or even worse:huh:

Buck...give it another year and if you still hate it get your ass somewhere else in Oz, If after another 12 months you still dislike it get your ass back to the UK....when you live in Oz you do come to realise that the UK was not that bad after all.... I have heard said quite a few times.:jiggy:

[tracy123]

I thought Petrh was bad but Melbourne sounds just as bad or even worse:huh:

Buck...give it another year and if you still hate it get your ass somewhere else in Oz, If after another 12 months you still dislike it get your ass back to the UK....when you live in Oz you do come to realise that the UK was not that bad after all.... I have heard said quite a few times.:jiggy:

 

Give over Earlswood! stick to slating WA!!!!! lol

 

Geoffrey

[Guest EvieB]

Do you also think it might depend on where you live in the UK? We live in one of the most expensive parts of the country (not because we are well off - I was born here) and believe me, compared to this, Melbourne is cheap. Here, you can’t buy a two bedroom flat for less than £280K. My sister and her husband live in Melbourne and earn far less than us - she works part-time and he is unskilled and they have 3 dependent children yet they have a 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house. We struggle to pay the mortgage on a 2 up 2 down with no parking. We have been subscribing to job vacancy websites for 6 months and the salaries for our jobs don't seem to be any less than here. Here I pay over £2 for a loaf of bread (so do you really pay $6 for a loaf?) and more than £3.00 for a dozen eggs. We spend time staying with my sister, doing normal things (like going food shopping) and paying bills and believe me, it’s cheaper. Admittedly we could see a difference the last time we went (a couple of months ago) but still nowhere near the cost of living here. I’m not saying this to join in the ‘rosy specs’ brigade, or put down those who say otherwise - merely to point out that everyone's situation is different and everyone should do their own research to see how it will be for them.

 

Having said that, I agree that for most people - us included - the important things are those that money can't buy anyway. Although I would dearly love to be able to park my car in sight of my house! :spinny:

[buckbuchanan]

Pinhead - you are in cloud cuckoo land!! I'd like to know how you could live on $27k over here. You would need to live aroud 2 hours out of Melbourne to be able to afford a place to live. It's exactly the same as the UK - there are places in the UK where the cost of living is low in the same way that there are places in Australia where the cost of living is low. But Melbourne isn't one of them (and when I talk about Melbourne I mean the city - not anywhere within 5 hours reach of Melbourne which some people seem to class as Melbourne).

Your point about the exchange rate not being important is also a bit dodgy.... It costs thousands to get setup in a new country and you lose out from day 1 when you exchange your money. If you don't bring money with you when you arrive you will end up sleeping in the park. And off course if your money isn't in Australia within 6 months of moving it will be taxed at 40%!! None off this takes into account the amount it costs to move in the first place. It cost us around £10,000 for 5 one-way flights and the contents of a small 3 bedroom house. Also during the first 6 weeks money flows through your hands like water.

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant - I want people to be aware that the chances are they will have a big dent in their pockets by the time they get settled here, and once the dust has settled they will be no better off than they were at home (and in our case worse off). I just don't think it is responsible telling people that they can come over here and live off peanuts.

[Guest Durathor]

Another aspect of Melbourne that has hit me quite hard is the size of the housing. I expected the houses to be bigger than in the UK. But my London terrace is 3 times the size of any property I have come across here (I live quite central in both cities). My garden 3 times the size of the postage stamp often referred to as a 'yard' here. Yet the prices are astronomical. There is no central heating, there are rarely more than 2 - 3 bedrooms, which aren't exactly roomy and the ceilings at home are cavernous by comparison. I think, financially, Melbourne is having a bit of a 'moment'. I don't expect it to last. After all, from London, I can be in Paris in 2 1/2 hours, skiing in any number of countries in moments, golfing in Scotland not mention but a few.

 

So I fail to see how people cannot look at the cost of living here in this remote outpost and not think twice. It simply isn't realistic. It's not a beautiful city, it's not close to any civilisation, has no major industry or global relevence.

 

In effect, we are customers, any city relies upon 'customers' living, visiting, working in it's confines. So it has to be competitive.

 

Melbourne simply isn't. It's insanity.

 

It's attractions are substantial and well documented here.

 

But London or Paris, with all the will in the world, it ain't.

 

Not close.

[Guest Pinhead]

Pinhead - you are in cloud cuckoo land!! I'd like to know how you could live on $27k over here. You would need to live aroud 2 hours out of Melbourne to be able to afford a place to live. It's exactly the same as the UK - there are places in the UK where the cost of living is low in the same way that there are places in Australia where the cost of living is low. But Melbourne isn't one of them (and when I talk about Melbourne I mean the city - not anywhere within 5 hours reach of Melbourne which some people seem to class as Melbourne).

Your point about the exchange rate not being important is also a bit dodgy.... It costs thousands to get setup in a new country and you lose out from day 1 when you exchange your money. If you don't bring money with you when you arrive you will end up sleeping in the park. And off course if your money isn't in Australia within 6 months of moving it will be taxed at 40%!! None off this takes into account the amount it costs to move in the first place. It cost us around £10,000 for 5 one-way flights and the contents of a small 3 bedroom house. Also during the first 6 weeks money flows through your hands like water.

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant - I want people to be aware that the chances are they will have a big dent in their pockets by the time they get settled here, and once the dust has settled they will be no better off than they were at home (and in our case worse off). I just don't think it is responsible telling people that they can come over here and live off peanuts.

 

Rent $400pw ($20,800)

Food/eating out $50pw ($2,600)

Electric $23pw ($1,200)

Telephone $15pw ($780)

Misc $40pw ($2,120)

Total $27,500

 

I lived in the CBD in Melbourne in a fully furnished, security enterance, pool, sauna, spa & gym on the corner Bourke & Exhibition in late 2004 & I lived on less than $2K pm including absolutely everything.

It would have been possible for me to live on less but I chose to live in a nice apartment in the centre of the CBD.

So yes even taking into account inflation of 20% over the last 3 years (which it hasn't been) & living in a slightly cheaper apartment it is possible to live on $27.5K pa.

I'm not saying you'd have a great life (no holiday's etc) but you could live on it.

 

You don't get taxed at 40% on all your money if it's not in Oz in 6 months that's complete rubbish.

 

Why do you lose out on day 1 if you exchange your money?explain

 

Who said anything about moving & travel costs? I was talking about when you where in Oz, not getting there.

[Guest Durathor]

I think 2004 might as well have been another generation ago. Things have changed Pinhead. It's gone quite mental since then. House prices, for a start, have more than doubled. As have food prices, energy prices et al.

You might as well quote 1804 for all the relevence it has now.

[buckbuchanan]

2004 - are you having a laugh!! In 2004 I sold my first house in the UK - it was up for sale again recently for over £100k more. A lot has happened since then. Having said that, I concede that a single person living on beans in a crap 1 bedroom appartment in one of the many slums of Melbourne would get by on $27k, providing, as you say, you don't expect holidays or any kind of social life, and limit your use of the phone to incoming calls, etc !!

As for the 40% tax - check it out - its fact. The Australian government only lets you bring money into the country for a period of 6 months before they start taxing you on it.

My point on the total cost of moving here was to point out that people coming here will end up seriously out of pocket, and depending on the exchange rate at the time they could end up even more out of pocket. The dream of being mortgage free or having that house with the pool could be blown if the exchange rate is against you. So.... yes it does matter.

[Guest oldn66]

I think there are two points to made in this discussion.If you take two people of the same age One in OZ and one in England.Assuming they earned the same amount over there working life. One moves here from England and all of a sudden has twice as much as the Oz because of the exchange rate.Lets assume they have the same jobs in OZ the OZ is still behind the eightball because the one from England probably owns more of thier house because of the exchange rate, and if the OZ moved to the UK they would be even worse off.

 

The second point being that whilst we all endeavour to be financiually free it comes down to our choices in life.We choose where we live and even to some degree our jobs. Most people I know from back home come here to give their kids a better lifestyle.Melbourne maybe an expensive place to live but coming from England with your savings puts you at least twice in front of a comparable person already here. Would you rather wake up in winter to scrap the ice off the windscreen waiting for the exchange rate to improve ?.Theres more to lifestyle than money and I suspect that is the chioce that was made before coming. If you think Melbournes too expensive find somewhere cheaper with a comparable lifestyle. I dont Think anyones compareing Melbourne or any part of Australia to any of the large cosmopolitan cities of Europe, There is no comparison , Australias just over 200 years old to start with in terms of settlement and being at the South poles door step is not a bad thing in todays complex world. People cant just jump on a train and get here is that really so bad. Take time to smell the clean fresh air it costs nothing.

[tracy123]

I think there are two points to made in this discussion.If you take two people of the same age One in OZ and one in England.Assuming they earned the same amount over there working life. One moves here from England and all of a sudden has twice as much as the Oz because of the exchange rate.Lets assume they have the same jobs in OZ the OZ is still behind the eightball because the one from England probably owns more of thier house because of the exchange rate, and if the OZ moved to the UK they would be even worse off.

 

The second point being that whilst we all endeavour to be financiually free it comes down to our choices in life.We choose where we live and even to some degree our jobs. Most people I know from back home come here to give their kids a better lifestyle.Melbourne maybe an expensive place to live but coming from England with your savings puts you at least twice in front of a comparable person already here. Would you rather wake up in winter to scrap the ice off the windscreen waiting for the exchange rate to improve ?.Theres more to lifestyle than money and I suspect that is the chioce that was made before coming. If you think Melbournes too expensive find somewhere cheaper with a comparable lifestyle. I dont Think anyones compareing Melbourne or any part of Australia to any of the large cosmopolitan cities of Europe, There is no comparison , Australias just over 200 years old to start with in terms of settlement and being at the South poles door step is not a bad thing in todays complex world. People cant just jump on a train and get here is that really so bad. Take time to smell the clean fresh air it costs nothing.

 

Hi

Could i afford to live in London i dont think so, could i afford to live in Blackburn yes. Can i afford to live in The inner city of Melbourne? dont think so could i afford to live in the western suburbs yes! If you want a posh area you pay for it. You cant complain about the cost of living house prices etc if you want to live in that area.

lower your standards and you will have a better life style. A house is a house an area, an area. what you choose to do with your wages is up to you. But dont complain you have no money when its your choice. There are nice cheap parts of Melbourne to live. that you could have your pool 4 bedrooms etc and still afford to go out have take aways etc etc, i think this has more to do with class than anything else!

 

Geoffrey

[Diane]

Thanks for all the replies. I will definately be checking out Brissie and Perth before we decide our fate! And Pete.... I definately don't wear lycra!! And I use the cycle path rather than the road, although it feels a bit lonely on there!!

 

 

Come check out Adelaide too - doesn't suit everyone, but worth a look, and you could do the whole of the Great Ocean Road on your way here :spinny:

[buckbuchanan]

I think I have maybe come accross the wrong way here. Firstly, i'm not complaining. Secondly, the point of this post was to point out that you will not be better off financially if you come here. That's it - plain and simple. As you say - there are cheap and expensive places to live, but all things considered you are not going to be able to move over here and suddenly find that you have millions in your bank account at the end of each month. I just think some people make it seem like this is the land of gold and honey - it isn't. I don't want someone reading this site and deciding to move over here based on misleading information.

[Guest billynhenry]

I think I have maybe come accross the wrong way here. Firstly, i'm not complaining. Secondly, the point of this post was to point out that you will not be better off financially if you come here. That's it - plain and simple. As you say - there are cheap and expensive places to live, but all things considered you are not going to be able to move over here and suddenly find that you have millions in your bank account at the end of each month. I just think some people make it seem like this is the land of gold and honey - it isn't. I don't want someone reading this site and deciding to move over here based on misleading information.

Hi Buck, we love your posts, they are honest, informative and very unbiased. I feel you have come across very well and hope to keep reading updates from you. We are watching the exchange rate in case we get the courage to go through with it, but we are trying to work out what we want from the move. Hopefully a good exchange rate should help us offset our mortgage if we get there so if our wages are lower things will even out.I know a lot of posts write about the high cost of living in Oz, as a previous post has pointed out it is getting higher here too, and in my humble opinion has risen quite considerably over the past few months, a loaf of bread for me if often £1.30-40 and diesel is £1.30 a litre. If I'm being naive thinking I won't be any worse off in Oz then someone please correct me, I won't be offended and want as much info as poss to help us make the decision.

As for a previous post about Oz being in for a shock when the commodities bubble bursts, where do people see the UK in 20yrs as we don't seem to manufacture much now, our mines have closed and ? what is left in the North Sea. ?

P.S Buck, we are thinking about N.S.W. but still love your Melbourne posts

[Guest earlswood]

I could afford to live very well in London on my wages for 40 hours work....I do 60 hours a week over here for less money and with the cost of living being higher in Oz I am struggling.

The cost of living is going through the roof over here.

[Guest Mel.R]

I think I have maybe come accross the wrong way here. Firstly, i'm not complaining. Secondly, the point of this post was to point out that you will not be better off financially if you come here. That's it - plain and simple. As you say - there are cheap and expensive places to live, but all things considered you are not going to be able to move over here and suddenly find that you have millions in your bank account at the end of each month. I just think some people make it seem like this is the land of gold and honey - it isn't. I don't want someone reading this site and deciding to move over here based on misleading information.

 

These threads are such a good source of info for anyone going for the first time, I think they do bring you back down to earth, and hopefully it will help people to look at the whole moving down under with their eyes wide open. We're not expecting to be any better off than what we are in the UK, but we are hoping for a better life style for us and our kids and a little bit of peace away from both my O/H's brother and my sister, who have not been an easy pair to put up with in recent years!!! lol

 

However everyone is different, what is one person's heaven is another person's hell. and we should always respect that.

[tracy123]

. If I'm being naive thinking I won't be any worse off in Oz then someone please correct me, I won't be offended and want as much info as poss to help us make the decision.

P.S Buck, we are thinking about N.S.W. but still love your Melbourne posts

 

Hi

Starting off in Sydney you are behind the 8 ball before you start as its the most expensive state of Australia.

It all comes down to you and what you want out of life? If you want the outdoors life the beach the parks How can Australia not be for you. Yes the Uk has it all but not the weather, so its a tease really.

If you want to live in the city or close to the city it will cost you, the further out you live the cheaper it gets and then it depends on what side etc etc.

To a point you are starting your life again and its up to you where you want that starting point to be? renting and investing your money? Buying a "first home buyer" home having no morgage or a little one, or having that "big house" with all the mod cons etc with a huge morgage and wondering why you are over here?!

I think only you can decide that

All the best

Geoffrey

[Guest al&nic]

Great to hear from you again Buck.

 

Once more you've given us a well rounded and accurate post of life in Melbourne.

 

The Buckbuchanan fan club

[Guest Durathor]

Hi Buck, we love your posts, they are honest, informative and very unbiased. I feel you have come across very well and hope to keep reading updates from you. We are watching the exchange rate in case we get the courage to go through with it, but we are trying to work out what we want from the move. Hopefully a good exchange rate should help us offset our mortgage if we get there so if our wages are lower things will even out.I know a lot of posts write about the high cost of living in Oz, as a previous post has pointed out it is getting higher here too, and in my humble opinion has risen quite considerably over the past few months, a loaf of bread for me if often £1.30-40 and diesel is £1.30 a litre. If I'm being naive thinking I won't be any worse off in Oz then someone please correct me, I won't be offended and want as much info as poss to help us make the decision.

As for a previous post about Oz being in for a shock when the commodities bubble bursts, where do people see the UK in 20yrs as we don't seem to manufacture much now, our mines have closed and ? what is left in the North Sea. ?

P.S Buck, we are thinking about N.S.W. but still love your Melbourne posts

 

 

Inflation is a global problem it's true. But Australia has no 'Primark' or food competition to offset it. Coles and Safeway operate as a cartel and reminds you of Tesco's 30 years ago. There is no 2 for 1 and everything is considerably more expensive. There is a drought to contend with, crops are failing and prices are rising.

 

As for housing, here are a couple of interesting statistics.

Australian homeowners are making the highest mortgage repayments of any developed country, 57% of their average income.

Property prices in Sydney and Melbourne are 12 and 10 times values-to-earnings, respectively.

 

There is more debt here than at home.

 

Standard variable rates for a mortgage here are 9 1/2 %

 

So you change up your money at 2 to the £ and then pay 9 1/2 % on a mortgage should you get one.

 

I just think it's worth making sure people understand all these things before they come. They are vital to their decision making.

 

If you want the plus side too, I love the Aussies, I love the climate, I love the beach. I like the fact that Australia feels like England 20 years ago. The high streets are original, with very few chains. There is no class system. They have a wonderful 'can-do' attitude here. They encourage business and people will you to suceed. For a jaded cynical Brit, the attitude of a young culture is really invigorating. It feels safer, sleepier. It is very isolated, even in a city. That's a personal choice, one I personally enjoy after years in central London. You can drive your car without traffic jams! During the day! Rush hour? Ha. They don't know what it is. My children are happy.

 

I am happy. It is a change, to some extent it's Hicksville compared to home. But that's not a bad thing. I live in town and some some Aussies say 'that's too urban for me', yet it's quieter here than a village in Sussex. Silent, no cars or people. So strange, yet very enjoyable. There are lots of parks and the culture is very child orientated. Life does feel easier, though less exciting.

 

There is no history, no buildings to divert the eye. I think that's what Buck was alluding to. It's a shock, no doubt. It's just not part of our DNA to exist in souless modern concrete cities. Freeways run on a grid system through lowrise 50's shopping malls. Suburbs stretch endlessly from the centre of Melbourne to the Dandenongs with no single feature to seperate or inspire them.

 

Melbourne is in the living. Day to day. Coffee in a small cafe on a bright Spring day. A park that's huge, uncluttered and virtually free of people. The beach close by for Summer's days and the wine region 2 hours away. Camping with the children and friends.

 

You have to throw yourself into it. Or it could be an expensive, boring mistake.

[Guest Ripha]

Love your post Southrick - where are you based?

 

Ripha.

[buckbuchanan]

Southrick - fantastic post!!

[Guest Hello Kitty]

There is no history, no buildings to divert the eye. I think that's what Buck was alluding to. It's a shock, no doubt. It's just not part of our DNA to exist in souless modern concrete cities. Freeways run on a grid system through lowrise 50's shopping malls. Suburbs stretch endlessly from the centre of Melbourne to the Dandenongs with no single feature to seperate or inspire them.

 

.

 

 

I don't quite understand what you are saying here.

 

There is no history and no bulidings to divert the eye you say - well compared to the 1000's of years of history in England you could say that but there are still many fine examples of Victorian era architecture in the city centre and throughout the inner suburbs. Melbourne has one of the finest examples of Victorian architecture in the world. Okay the buildings are no older than than 1840's onwards but it is still history. Have you stepped inside the Block Arcade in Collins Street for example or St. Paul's Cathedral? Can you deny the beauty and history of such buildings? There are also completely intact historical towns and villages in the country such as Beechworth and Maldon and other fine examples of gold rush era architecture in places such as Ballarat and Bendigo. I would not say that the CBD of Melbourne is souless , nor are many other suburbs of Melbourne. True, the same cannot be said of some outer suburban areas in the far flung outer reaches of the city. Australia is a new country is I don't think too many people are coming here expecting it to be like Europe.

 

Suburbs do stretch endlesslessly but there are many interesting suburbs around if you care to get off those freeways and explore.