Captain Roberto Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) NB - I posted this also in 'Money and Finance' - but don't know if it belongs there or here - so here it is again. Apologies in advance if this is 'wrong' and mods, please correct as you see fit. >>> Hello We have lived in Sydney for just over 6 months, and we already really like it. Whether we stay or not indefinitely is yet to be decided, as these things are multifaceted, complicated issues, but generally we like it here. Just the vibe and the lifestyle. There's much more to do here than there was in Wrexham, Wales where we lived before. The kids don't spend 6 months year glued to the TV/Xbox, and the current school they are in seems to promote good values and it's not cool to be lazy like it was in Wrexham! So - I am about to start the task of working out if and where we could move to. This needs to be well researched, as we can't really move the kids from their schools all the time. It's just best avoided. So the next move needs to be a place where we can put down roots. I understand that this isn't likely to be a quick task, more of a project where we get more of an understanding of what to do over a couple of months. I could waffle on for ages, give details and our backgrounds, but really I am just looking for people who can help with the following: Some kind of impartial real estate advice Some mortgage/financial advice Here are the contextual bits, if that's helpful, but all we really need is some good contacts and tips to the above two points: We currently live in Killara, Upper North Shore Sydney. It's nice, but slightly boring to be honest, and way too expensive for us (despite the excellent schools) We like the beach, outdoor lifestyle where possible. So parks, places to bike, rollerskate, skateboard, jogging etc - bush also good, but not always good for dog-walks. We own and love a dog, and want somewhere we can take our dog out! (maybe not just a dull 'oval' that smells of dog crap.. see above) I tend to work around the CBD area of Sydney, and could commute by train up to an hour or a decent bus service. We earn - at current levels, about $160k combined, this might rise a little over time, but not drastically (We are a graphic designer and a nurse couple) 3 kids We don't expect to live in the most 'bling' places, but would like to avoid rough places too. We don't feel the need to have an impressive post-code and don't need to keep up with the Jones's. (This is would be impossible in many parts of Sydney on our income anyway!) We like (love) Sydney, and it does offer the best work opportunities, but could consider Melbourne or the greater Brisbane/coast area if necessary. (there's no work for me in Perth, so we can rule that out) We would consider the lower central Coast, or places like Hornsby area or Sutherland Shire or a bit further out down South if on the train line. (west might not work as it's probably too hot and too far from the coast) We probably have about £100k ($200 Aud) equity if we sold our house back in the UK, which hopefully would serve as a down payment. Essentially, we want to be realistic, and are open to thinking about a bigger/further move, and it doesn't have to be a specific suburb (or city). We just want to move somewhere we like where we could potentially buy a house, where we could settle and the kids won't have to move schools again. Our current rent payment is $1000 p/w and we like to pay less rent/mortgage and would require a 3 or 4 bedroom place. If anyone knows anyone, please hit me up. I am happy to dish out a real email etc, but maybe not on this post as the mods don't like that kind of thing - so replies on here, or PMs etc. I don't expect instant answers, but would like to get researching now as we need to get out of this expensive rental sooner rather than later. PS my real name is Matt and I am not a captain. CHEERS! Edited January 17, 2016 by Captain Roberto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Get your budgets straight on a monthly basis in the first instance You say you want to reduce your outgoings from your current rental. Work out by how much, and be clear/straight/honest Bear in mind owning a house will cost you more in some regular outgoings. You need to allow for: a) Council rates - allow $100-$150 a month b) Water rates/charges - allow $60-$100 a month c) Buildings insurance - allow $50-$100 a month You will also have an additional risk in terms of repairs and maintenance to your house. It's harder to put a figure on this because it can be highly variable, but you need to allow for it If you set those extra costs against what you want to pay, you will be able to work out what you can afford in mortgage payments per month. Then you will be able to get to a maximum you can borrow Suggest you do that robustly before you do anything else. I think you will need/want to sell your UK house, as you really need a 20% deposit these days Once you've got your top house price budget from all that, you can start looking seriously at areas. I think (from other threads) you seem to know where to look in terms of proximity to beach, commutes and so on. One good thing you'll have here almost everywhere is plenty of parks/green space, Sydney is good at this. Dog walking opportunities is tougher. Anywhere that is a National Park is off limits as you know, and there are a lot of these (especially on the north side of Sydney). It's one of the reasons I am refusing my family's desire to get a dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I think only you can really work out what you can afford to buy. Have you been looking at http://www.realestate.com.au I think in sydney you will be looking at a large mortgage. Most houses are probably $1M so you may need an $850K mortgage. Are you prepared for that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest226914 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Personally if you know you love Sydney I would stay in Sydney. I would feel it was too big a risk to move somewhere you have not lived before. Even visiting a place a lot is different to actually living there. But obviously if it comes to it and you can't afford it then you will be forced to look elsewhere. Have you looked at the hills district? We live near Castle Hill and although some houses are expensive you can also find some good buys as it is a slightly older suburb. You can get a fast bus to the CBD which goes along the M2 and it takes about an hour. Plus the new train line will be working in a few years. It depends what kind of thing you are looking for but we love it here and despite the expensive housing found something reasonable which we love. Edited January 18, 2016 by george8181 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingback Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I think with your jobs, criteria and budget I'd move out of Sydney. Its just too expensive to live somewhere that is semi-nice on your budget. It sounds crazy but $1 million won't get you much of a house anywhere close to the city. If you can get work in Brisbane/Gold Coast I'd strongly recommend moving up that way as houses are MUCH cheaper. Alternatively, the central coast or Wollongong - your wife can likely find work close to home but you would have to put up with a long (1.5 hr) commute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the replies [emoji106] @northshorepom - great. Good advice. I am not naturally a great financial planner so basic framework ideas like that are very useful indeed. It still sounds complicated but at least we can make a start. To be honest, When it comes to actual numbers we haven't really started yet (a mixture of procrastination and maybe expecting it to be too much of a reality check! Ha ha) @parleycross Hard to tell. Seems like you have a pay out a lot whether it's rental or mortgage really - but having had a mortgage since '97 in the uk and having found that it's suited us, we'd prefer to have one here too before too long. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited January 18, 2016 by Captain Roberto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Try playing a few tunes on this: https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-apps/mortgage-calculator#!how-much-will-my-repayments-be you can borrow $750K over 30 years and be repaying about $3600 a month. This equates to $830 a week, which sounds like about your top end given the additional costs you will have and your desire to reduce your outgoings a bit This says to me that if you have $200K from your UK house, after setting aside sums for stamp duty, moving costs, conveyancing costs and the like, then $900K might be a figure you could set as a budget This is pretty tight for Sydney as you know, but it's not impossible. I would say that in Sydney you are likely to be stretched. Which would mean going for as low a maintenance risk as you can find as well, as you won't have much slack to accommodate unforeseen costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) So - not good news for buying in Sydney it seems - but at least we have a few ideas now to start looking. I'm 44 now, so in 30 years I might be struggling to keep it all going (if I am still alive that is! ) In some ways it's not so urgent to buy immediately, but if we moved to another area we need to have the potential to buy, even if we rented first. Hence doing all the figures now. Simply moving to another rental is obviously a lot simpler, but having some sort of financial grounding has always served us well, and enabled us to get out here in the first place. Lower central or south coast might be the answer - Edited January 18, 2016 by Captain Roberto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 They have no qualms about giving out 30 year mortgages to people in their 40s. They figure you will have sold/downsized/moved on or whatever by then Cheapest places up the north shore/northern train lines are Hornsby and north from there - Asquith, Mt Colah, Mt Kuringai, Berowra. Closely followed by Normanhurst, Thornleigh, Westleigh. But in all these places you might find your budget a bit marginal. It's worth looking as the market has slowed right down Anywhere south of Hornsby isn't going to happen for $900K, train or no train, I would say If you're prepared to go towards the northwest then you have a lot more options. Yes it is (obviously) further from the coast but housing is much cheaper. It's also newer, which means you may get that lower maintenance liability. Look at the suburbs around Old Windsor Rd like Kellyville, Stanhope Gardens, Rouse Hill etc. Lots of new build, very good rapid bus transit into the city (plus the railway coming in 2019) and your budget can get you a nice 4 bed house over there. However, I would make one suggestion: Get in your car and go for a drive around, a stop off, and get a feel for these sort of suburbs before you do too much searching on Domain or Realestate.com. The quickest way to depressing yourself about what you can afford, IMO, is if you get all excited about the schmick looking houses you can afford over there, but then go and visit and hate it, and try and find the same sort of thing for the same sort of price nearer the coast, because it doesn't exist. If you don't like the feel of the area, don't look on the websites for potential houses. Actually I'd suggest that for any area Central Coast is a possibility but you'll need to be really close to transport and I can't help you much on the areas near to the train that are any good (or not). Somewhere around Woy Woy would probably be the best starting point. South side of Sydney, someone else will have to help you out. There are lots of nice areas in the Shire but I don't know what prices are like down there after the last couple of years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 @northshorepom - in theory, your kids are supposed to take the dog out, but 75% of it will be down to you! - so you are probably right. It's all good when you have spare time, but when you have to get up at 6am every day in the week before spending 10 hours in the office it can get a bit much. My eldest takes out dog out after school now, but we had to bribe her with hard cash, and she's nearly 13. But, in truth you usually get a dog for nonsensical soppy reasons! we did. Strictly speaking you can't take your dog anywhere over here, but if you break a few rules you can go more places. Wahroonga park is nice, but not that big. I'm not a big fan of 'dog parks' and ovals. Pretty boring! A hot square of land full of other dog people... The dog beach at Bayview is pretty good, but a bit of a drive. It does smell like dogs hang there all the time though when you go by the bins. Lovely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 From my understanding, many parts of the shire aren't really cheap. It's very nice down there from my experience, the schools are good and there's a trainline. You need to get out in the further extremes before it gets cheaper. Seems like the nice places start at a $1 Mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 You might consider Melbourne. Housing is significantly cheaper than Sydney and will still provide a similar lifestyle (maybe better). Obviously you need to consider finding jobs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I think Sydney probably offers the worst lifestyle of the cities as to the average person the affordable areas are a long commute and way out from the great lifestyle areas/beaches of Sydney. Not much help I know but to get what you want it seems you have to do one of following: 1. Keep renting (maybe buy an investment property if you want to be on the ladder?) 2. Move elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) ooops - posted same thing twice by accident Edited January 18, 2016 by Captain Roberto repetition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Ok - thanks all. So many good replies. The last question I have is this, which seems to niggle me. Many people I know here have 'done well' out of the housing market, Some moved a few times and got better places, whilst others say they were 'glad to have bought when they did', or they couldn't have afforded it now. Obviously house prices can go up and down, and there's lots of debate around this, but in general it seems in the long term they only really go up. (Like London, there are blips, but in time these are always corrected as the demand is always going to be there) Part of our desire to buy is that in time it might turn out to have been a wise move, and might help in 20 years time. Is this correct? (in your opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingback Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Ok - thanks all. So many good replies. The last question I have is this, which seems to niggle me. Many people I know here have 'done well' out of the housing market, Some moved a few times and got better places, whilst others say they were 'glad to have bought when they did', or they couldn't have afforded it now. Obviously house prices can go up and down, and there's lots of debate around this, but in general it seems in the long term they only really go up. (Like London, there are blips, but in time these are always corrected as the demand is always going to be there) Part of our desire to buy is that in time it might turn out to have been a wise move, and might help in 20 years time. Is this correct? (in your opinion) I think its a huge risk in Sydney. You're going to struggle for 30-40 yrs to pay a mortgage on a very mediocre home and for what? You'll pay over a million in interest just to own a dog box tens of kms from the CBD. Yes, it may increase in value, but in my opinion it could just as easily drop in value. The past does not predict the future especially in todays crazy credit driven world. I'm in Sydney and I'm moving back home, to a cheaper, quieter (northern) city. I'll buy a lovely house for 200,000 pounds and spend the rest of my money on travel, going out, friends, family. Just my ppinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Also if prices go up you are still only better off if you then move to an area that has performed worse in the meantime. Or the next generation will benefit via inheritance. Paying a million dollars to live somewhere you aren't that into doesn't sound like a great deal. Also a big mortgage just opens you up for trouble in any downturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Reading your thread has made me go....Wow. Perth gets hung out to dry over housing costs, but from what I've read on this thread, I think we are quite lucky. We bought in Perth as mid 40 year olds, 30 year mortgage, modern house, 10 mins drive from the beach, 40 mins travel time to the CBD, train line if we need it. didnt need to sell UK house, as bought with Keystart , no deposit needed. Got a great mortgage broker, paid only what we were paying in rent, 18 months later, broker got us another great deal, moved mortgage to one of the major banks. The mortgage is now down to 18 years. so for retirement time we can hopefully have the profits of UK and Aus house to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 We live in Sutherland Shire. It is a beautiful area with great schools, beaches, national park etc and a fairly easy commute to the city, but it is no longer a well-kept secret! Even in the cheaper parts of Sutherland Shire house prices are crazy. In our suburb houses always go for over $1million, and it is the same story in the neighbouring suburb which used to be a bit cheaper. We are in the Engadine area, which was always a bit cheaper than over near the coast. I have friends who have had to move out of the area because they can't afford to rent or buy here. Having said that, there are still quite a few houses around which are in need of renovation or rebuilding which might be worth consideration. You might have the pain of living in a less than desirable property whilst you get things done (or do them yourself if you are handy - excluding those things which need licensed tradies of course), but it is worth thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 For mortgages ask @andrew at vista financial http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/financial-advice-ask-vista/ he has found a lot of our members mortgages so he can help with that score. I haven't read any replies only your OP and to be honest from what I am reading I wouldn't be buying just yet as it doesn't seem like you are set on any area or state. Obviously you would get more for your money outside of Sydney but if you love it there then why consider moving at all. Just try and find something in your budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Ok - thanks all. So many good replies. The last question I have is this, which seems to niggle me. Many people I know here have 'done well' out of the housing market, Some moved a few times and got better places, whilst others say they were 'glad to have bought when they did', or they couldn't have afforded it now. Obviously house prices can go up and down, and there's lots of debate around this, but in general it seems in the long term they only really go up. (Like London, there are blips, but in time these are always corrected as the demand is always going to be there) Part of our desire to buy is that in time it might turn out to have been a wise move, and might help in 20 years time. Is this correct? (in your opinion) Prices don't always go up. Cairns and Townsville have been stuck in a time warp for the last five years that I know of. We were lucky with selling in the UK but here only managed to scrape our money back. That is our fault though for moving up North, if we had stayed in Melbourne I think it would be different. An idea for you, why don't you continue to rent and purchase an investment property, you would have to check financials though as obviously you wouldn't be entitled to the first time buyers grant if it wasn't your full time address, BUT, you would be staking your claim on a piece of Australia and bringing in an income as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickyplum Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) ouch @Captain Roberto! Just reading your dilemma(s) makes my head hurt... We are nowhere near a position to buy a place, and if we were, it would have to be an apartment in a high rise / new development in not a particularly pretty area (think Rockdale / Wolli Creek new developments). I can't even begin to imagine ever being able to afford a small house, not even one of those insanely small workers cottages. Will my eye on this thread and see what comes up! I'm not seeing any 'easy' way out though... Edited January 18, 2016 by vickyplum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Roberto Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Aye. Reality can be a bit of a bummer eh! I guess my basic opinion is, around here you'll pay a lot for a mortgage or a rent. I'd rather pay my own mortgage down rather than someone else's. But seems like in sydney it might just be a bit too much of a stretch. But will still look at it. Or work out where we can afford (further out) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I think its a huge risk in Sydney. You're going to struggle for 30-40 yrs to pay a mortgage on a very mediocre home and for what? You'll pay over a million in interest just to own a dog box tens of kms from the CBD. Yes, it may increase in value, but in my opinion it could just as easily drop in value. The past does not predict the future especially in todays crazy credit driven world. I'm in Sydney and I'm moving back home, to a cheaper, quieter (northern) city. I'll buy a lovely house for 200,000 pounds and spend the rest of my money on travel, going out, friends, family. Just my ppinion I agree that Sydney is pretty much peaked at the moment. If one were buying for the short term, say up to 4-5 years, I possibly wouldn't bother And there are risks: Some places are going to drop in value, at least in the short term. It's not that easy to pick the riskiest areas but as ever in property, location is 80% of the equation and it's the marginal locations that drop first and furthest in market corrections. In the long term I think the outlook is probably better. Australia is going to continue to grow in terms of population, and Sydney is going to continue to grow. It's also the place where international demand is always likely to be the highest. Central or near-central areas are probably the safest bets in terms of being unlikely to fall. Also places where new infrastructure is going in, especially rail. A fair bit of this premium has already been factored into values (certainly in Castle Hill which has gone silly in the past 2 years) but I'm sure there is more to go, when the railway actually exists and people get how easy it is to travel into the city. I do agree with Captain R's view that he'd rather be paying off his own mortgage than someone else's though; I also personally found it quite hard to settle when renting, knowing you were likely to be moving on and putting up with someone else's compromises and/or crap maintenance. Taking on a big mortgage is always a risk of course. No such thing as a risk free house purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 0 Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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