Thom Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 A High Court judge yesterday said immigrant parents should be allowed to slap and hit their children when they are new arrivals in Britain. To the outrage of children’s campaigners, Mrs Justice Pauffley suggested police and social services should make allowance for foreigners because of the ‘different cultural context’. Her remarks came in a legal challenge from an Indian accused of beating his wife and seven-year-old son. The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, told the court he was hit on the back and leg with a ‘long belt’. The father denied ever striking the child with a belt but admitted he would deliver a ‘slap or a tap’ to discipline him. In her ruling the judge concluded: ‘I do not believe there was punitively harsh treatment of [the boy] of the kind that would merit the term physical abuse. ‘Proper allowance must be made for what is, almost certainly, a different cultural context. Within many communities newly arrived in this country, children are slapped and hit for misbehaviour in a way which at first excites the interest of child protection professionals. ‘In this instance ... the boy did not appear to have suffered more than sadness and transient pain from what was done to him.’ Reacting to the comments, an NSPCC spokesman said last night: ‘Children need to be protected irrespective of cultural sensitivities. Different practices are no excuse for child abuse taking place in this country and the law doesn’t make that distinction. ‘Every child deserves the right to be safe and protected from physical abuse and the courts must reflect this.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Stupid woman! No excuses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Pretty much common sense to my way of thinking. Many societies do not believe in sparing the rod in order to control their kids. Surely better in early days of arrival to point out what is and isn't admissible today. This is hardly new. I recall parents from Caribbean backgrounds complaining as much thirty odd years back, that their kids were going as they were as to an inability to discipline as in the Jamaican context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm going to sit on the fence on this not every child who is smacked by their parents is abused - I do not believe in physically punishing children but I accept it is the cultural norm for some (& this is nothing to do with migrants or religion, there are plenty of indigenous communities in the UK where it is the norm). So whilst I do believe migrants to a country should for the most part obey the law (certainly as much as citIzens do anyway) and every migrant has a responsibility to learn the norms in the culture they are moving to it is critical that social workers and judges in family court do consider the 'cultural context' of EVERY case - not just migrant families. I look back at myself as a much younger, fresh from Uni, social worker and cringe now as I made judgements based on my own frame of reference rather than truly considering the cultural context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is it illegal to smack your child now inn Britain ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Besides cultural norms change with latest fads and fashions taking root. I recall as a youngster the disdain put on American child raising with the comment their kids being allowed to ran amouk basically. Discipline though in decline was still considered part and parcel to child raising in UK and Ireland. A not to dissimilar situation can be found in immigrant societies in todays western world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 So we have one law for recent immigrants, another for the Muslims with Sharia law, one for the Jewish people with Beth Din, one for the Cornish nationals, one for the Polish. Welcome to UK 2015, we've tolerated the British way of life and customary law out of relevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So we have one law for recent immigrants, another for the Muslims with Sharia law, one for the Jewish people with Beth Din, one for the Cornish nationals, one for the Polish. Welcome to UK 2015, we've tolerated the British way of life and customary law out of relevance. There aren't separate laws for Muslims or the Polish or recent arrivals. This woman doesn't make laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is it illegal to smack your child now inn Britain ? Not in England and Wales - not sure in Scotland - they did try but I think it was rejected. You cannot use a belt or a cane or similar and cannot leave marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Not in England and Wales - not sure in Scotland - they did try but I think it was rejected. You cannot use a belt or a cane or similar and cannot leave marks. Commonsense prevailed. Stopping a parent given a child a smack will not in any way stop child abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So we have one law for recent immigrants, another for the Muslims with Sharia law, one for the Jewish people with Beth Din, one for the Cornish nationals, one for the Polish. Welcome to UK 2015, we've tolerated the British way of life and customary law out of relevance. Funny how you see things as you want them to be. Any reason sought by some to slip the knitting needle into Johnny Foreigner I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 There aren't separate laws for Muslims or the Polish or recent arrivals. This woman doesn't make laws. Woosh... No but she is a in a high legal position and is advocating for one law for them and another for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Woosh... No but she is a in a high legal position and is advocating for one law for them and another for us... Advocating common sense to which we all know isn't so common at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Advocating common sense to which we all know isn't so common at all. So, you believe that her advocating; " immigrant parents should be allowed to slap and hit their children when they are new arrivals in Britain. because of the ‘different cultural context’." is "common sense? Ok, fair enough, each to his own, be a boring world etc,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 So, you believe that her advocating; " immigrant parents should be allowed to slap and hit their children when they are new arrivals in Britain. because of the ‘different cultural context’." is "common sense? Ok, fair enough, each to his own, be a boring world etc,. No hardly a boring world if conformity is your thing. But it is sensible. The fact that many UK parents don't sanction their kids these days by means of a slap, is very confusing too many. To allow time to learn alternative methods of parenting instead of criminalising the parent involved makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Woosh... No but she is a in a high legal position and is advocating for one law for them and another for us... It makes no difference, she can advocate whatever she wants, she is not in a position to implement anything so she is just flapping her gums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 No hardly a boring world if conformity is your thing. But it is sensible. The fact that many UK parents don't sanction their kids these days by means of a slap, is very confusing too many. To allow time to learn alternative methods of parenting instead of criminalising the parent involved makes a lot of sense. Rubbish. You cannot have a two tier law system where some are exempt from child protection laws, just to satisfy the whims of the middle class guilt brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 It makes no difference, she can advocate whatever she wants, she is not in a position to implement anything so she is just flapping her gums. She can set legal precedent, can she not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 She can set legal precedent, can she not? Only to an extent, in all probability an unreasonable precedent would be challenged and reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Rubbish. You cannot have a two tier law system where some are exempt from child protection laws, just to satisfy the whims of the middle class guilt brigade. Rubbish. Having a sensible system in place that doesn't criminalise people for doing what comes naturally, namely administrating discipline to their own kids, but educates them into the norms of the host society a far better way to go. Cultural misunderstandings are rampant in all parts of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Only to an extent, in all probability an unreasonable precedent would be challenged and reversed. Of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Rubbish. Having a sensible system in place that doesn't criminalise people for doing what comes naturally, namely administrating discipline to their own kids, but educates them into the norms of the host society a far better way to go.Cultural misunderstandings are rampant in all parts of the world. So why should that only apply to "recent immigrants"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 So why should that only apply to "recent immigrants"? Now let me think??? Perhaps because they are recent immigrants? You answered your own question. Obviously with time the so called norms of a nation are more likely to be known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Now let me think??? Perhaps because they are recent immigrants? You answered your own question. Obviously with time the so called norms of a nation are more likely to be known. So there should be no expectations of these people learning the norms before they migrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welljock Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Rubbish. Having a sensible system in place that doesn't criminalise people for doing what comes naturally, namely administrating discipline to their own kids, but educates them into the norms of the host society a far better way to go.Cultural misunderstandings are rampant in all parts of the world. So where do you stop then? When do you start criminalising recent immigrants - when they stone adulterers? when they execute drug smugglers? when they cut the hands off thieves? when they assault children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.