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Help! Applying for Jobs while offshore


dangargoyle

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So......finally got my 189 Visa Grant in February 2015 and planning to move to Sydney in May, 2015.

Now, I have a Question on Job Prospects and the right approach to take when applying for jobs. First, I have already formatted my CV to Australian Standards as advised by my Immigration Agent and have been applying for numerous IT Jobs online (Over 300 so far), all of which I am very Qualified and sometimes mostly overqualified for. I consider myself to be a very strong/qualified job candidate as I have over 10 years of experience, am Qualified at Masters degree level (from UK) and have lots of prestigious IT certifications. I am Not White - BTW. I have only included an email address as part of my contact details. However, I have not received a single invitation for an interview or request for additional details from any of the employers that I have contacted. All I receive is the standard regret email stating that 'my application was unsuccessful on that occasion.....' bla bla bla. I am now thinking there must be something that i'm doing wrong. I have been using the most popular job sites eg. seek.com.au, careerone.com.au etc and also making direct applications via company sites and job listing pages. I'm currently employed full time and this move to Oz will demand that I resign from my current offshore role (Which does not pay very well but is nevertheless quite stable). My question is - Am I doing anything wrong? Should I be using a different approach? Will applying for jobs Onshore as opposed to Offshore make any difference?

Anyone with similar experiences?Regards, D

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Yes you are doing something wrong. You are applying far too early. Unemployment is too high in Australia at the moment for companies to need to look to overseas applicants.

 

I would recommend you wait until two or three weeks before you are ready to fly over, then make contact with some agents and arrange to meet them for coffee upon your arrival. Use these meetings to find an agent you can get on your side.

 

And stop scatter gunning your CV, chances are the same people will be seeing it over and over again and you are going to look desperate and unorganised and I daresay it is being counter productive for you right now.

 

We have all been where you are and do understand the temptation, but try to resist it.

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Yes you are doing something wrong. You are applying far too early. Unemployment is too high in Australia at the moment for companies to need to look to overseas applicants.

 

I would recommend you wait until two or three weeks before you are ready to fly over, then make contact with some agents and arrange to meet them for coffee upon your arrival. Use these meetings to find an agent you can get on your side.

 

And stop scatter gunning your CV, chances are the same people will be seeing it over and over again and you are going to look desperate and unorganised and I daresay it is being counter productive for you right now.

 

We have all been where you are and do understand the temptation, but try to resist it.

 

Thanks Bungo for our reply. My approach was to sort of 'START TESTING' the job market in Sydney at this point and see if potential employers may have a keen interest in my skills and qualifications. There is nothing on my CV or Covering letters currently to indicate that I am currently offshore. So.. for now, No employer would overlook my CV on the basis of that I am currently offshore. From you reply, It appears that most jobs in Australia are secured through one-on-one interaction with agents or recruitment agencies. I am coming from a system where most professional jobs are secured through competitive face-to-face interviews with panels/committees at the Recruiting organizations themselves eg. Board of Directors or Senior Management etc. Kindly clarify if this is the case in Sydney/Australia?

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An incredibly small amount of people get a job before they travel to Australia.

 

Most of the IT market is very saturated - add that to the climbing unemployment rate, the fact that you are overseas (can probably be seen by you not providing an Australian number to be contacted on - very unsuaul not to include a phone number on a CV) and that you are an overseas applicant (no Australian experience) I would say it's quite possible that you won't get a job offer until you are in Australia for a few weeks or more.

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Thanks Bungo for our reply. My approach was to sort of 'START TESTING' the job market in Sydney at this point and see if potential employers may have a keen interest in my skills and qualifications. There is nothing on my CV or Covering letters currently to indicate that I am currently offshore. So.. for now, No employer would overlook my CV on the basis of that I am currently offshore. From you reply, It appears that most jobs in Australia are secured through one-on-one interaction with agents or recruitment agencies. I am coming from a system where most professional jobs are secured through competitive face-to-face interviews with panels/committees at the Recruiting organizations themselves eg. Board of Directors or Senior Management etc. Kindly clarify if this is the case in Sydney/Australia?

 

The panel interviews often come later, the recruitment agents screen the applications and pass potential candidates onto to the employer. Unemployment is high here and IT professionals are not scarce.

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I will be in this very same situation in a few weeks, so it will be good to hear your outcome.

 

I am planning a reccy trip later this year to see agents, companies to get my face out there and see what potential jobs are around. Then hopefully get a dialogue going with some of them and then aim for a perm date and get some interviews lined up for the first few weeks.

 

If my approach will work only time will tell :)

 

Good luck with the job search.

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An incredibly small amount of people get a job before they travel to Australia.

 

Most of the IT market is very saturated - add that to the climbing unemployment rate, the fact that you are overseas (can probably be seen by you not providing an Australian number to be contacted on - very unsuaul not to include a phone number on a CV) and that you are an overseas applicant (no Australian experience) I would say it's quite possible that you won't get a job offer until you are in Australia for a few weeks or more.

 

"that you haven't provided a Australian number and that you are an overseas applicant (no Australian experience)" This seems Quite Logical to me.

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What do you specialise in? As previous posters have said the IT market is very slow at the moment. I am terminating some of my developers contracts end of this month and so are the infrastructure teams at my place (banking).

When I moved over in 2013 I did get a job whilst offshore but I have very unique experience and I was extremely lucky.

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The panel interviews often come later, the recruitment agents screen the applications and pass potential candidates onto to the employer. Unemployment is high here and IT professionals are not scarce.

 

Sammy1 - Wow! Just checked http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/unemployment-rate and it shows the unemployment rate in Australia is at around 6% and is dropping. Well, I think 'HIGH' is relative. (Just trying to be optimistic though). I am coming from an economy where the unemployment rate is around 50%, so there may be some hope..

Regards, D

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Thanks Bungo for our reply. My approach was to sort of 'START TESTING' the job market in Sydney at this point and see if potential employers may have a keen interest in my skills and qualifications. There is nothing on my CV or Covering letters currently to indicate that I am currently offshore. So.. for now, No employer would overlook my CV on the basis of that I am currently offshore. From you reply, It appears that most jobs in Australia are secured through one-on-one interaction with agents or recruitment agencies. I am coming from a system where most professional jobs are secured through competitive face-to-face interviews with panels/committees at the Recruiting organizations themselves eg. Board of Directors or Senior Management etc. Kindly clarify if this is the case in Sydney/Australia?

 

They might be able to tell from the names of the employers you have mentioned on your CV that you are overseas. And no I am not suggesting that you will secure a job through an agent, I am suggesting that you probably need an agent to represent you and get you through the door to the interview process.

 

I have seen people recommend trying to mask where you are currently living. Personally I would not recommend this, it will come out soon enough and if I were recruiting, I would not appreciate the attempt to deceive me. Be honest about where you are, but bide your time for a little longer until you have firm moving dates that are only a very short time ahead.

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What do you specialise in? As previous posters have said the IT market is very slow at the moment. I am terminating some of my developers contracts end of this month and so are the infrastructure teams at my place (banking).

When I moved over in 2013 I did get a job whilst offshore but I have very unique experience and I was extremely lucky.

 

Hi Frozen, I have all round experience in IT but more specifically IT Management (last 3 Years immediate Experience (MSc (Computer Science), MBA (Strategic Management), BSc IT), I also have solid expertise in IT Security (CISA, CISM, CISSP, CEH v8), Software Development (ABAP, PHP, .NET, Java, Javascript) and Infrastructure& Support (ITIL v3, MCITP, MCSE, MCSA, MCTS, MCSA 2012, MCP). I am applying for mostly Senior Business Analyst positions but also anything that I am qualified for in IT Management and IT Security at Mid to Senior Management levels.

Regards, D

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Sammy1 - Wow! Just checked http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/unemployment-rate and it shows the unemployment rate in Australia is at around 6% and is dropping. Well, I think 'HIGH' is relative. (Just trying to be optimistic though). I am coming from an economy where the unemployment rate is around 50%, so there may be some hope..

Regards, D

 

Well in that case, yes it is better than where you are coming from. But it is nearer 6.5% in Australia and this is at a level when it starts to pinch. I think 5% is the level when the market feels a bit better for job hunters. Also it varies by occupation and it is fairly well documented that there is a lot of competition for roles in the IT occupations.

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It is high for a country like Australia - it was slightly over 5% not long ago! It will also depend on which state you are travelling to - Victoria unemployment rate for example is climbing, it's now over 7% for memory. Youth unemployment country wise is increasing as well.

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This has got me worrying a little, its a big step anyway but with uncertainty work wise until you are there makes it even more scary.

 

Hopefully my trip over later this year will help. I always thought IT in Melbourne was a big pull for overseas skilled workers.

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This has got me worrying a little, its a big step anyway but with uncertainty work wise until you are there makes it even more scary.

 

Hopefully my trip over later this year will help. I always thought IT in Melbourne was a big pull for overseas skilled workers.

 

It is quite common for people to assume there is a real shortage of workers in Australia, I think it is due to programs like wanted down under and the very frequent expos that are held around the country. But it does have a higher unemployment rate than the UK right now.

 

Obviously varies by occupation, but I think the reality is that on average, finding a job in Australia is much the same as finding a job in the UK. Sometimes it might be harder in Australia, sometimes easier but I suspect at the moment it is a bit harder. However if you are generally confident in your CV and your ability to land jobs, I don't think you need to let this be a show stopper, but at the same time, don't come over thinking there are lots of jobs about and you are going to pick one up in no time.

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If you are not including a phone number that would be the issue. Most recruitment agencies give you a call to test your ability to discuss yourself with no notice...if you are not giving them a number to call they are going right past your CV.

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Thanks Bungo for our reply. My approach was to sort of 'START TESTING' the job market in Sydney at this point and see if potential employers may have a keen interest in my skills and qualifications. There is nothing on my CV or Covering letters currently to indicate that I am currently offshore.

 

....but surely it's obvious from your CV that all your experience (including your current job) is overseas. The fact that it (presumably) doesn't include an address or mobile phone number would worry me if I were an employer - I'd think, what are you trying to hide? It would make more sense to be honest, I think.

 

Another question - your CV may be formatted to Australian standards, but are you carefully tailoring each cover letter to the needs of the employer? That means studying the ad, picking out the key requirements and explaining why you satisfy every one of them (briefly, in bullet points). So your cover letter says something like:

 

"I wish to apply for the role of ... advertised in .... I feel my qualifications and experience are well suited to your needs as follows:

 

(bullet points addressing each requirement mentioned in the ad)."

 

If an employer can see you're suitable without even having to look at your CV, you're ahead of the rest of the candidates.

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If you are not including a phone number that would be the issue. Most recruitment agencies give you a call to test your ability to discuss yourself with no notice...if you are not giving them a number to call they are going right past your CV.

 

 

Hmmm! Sounds quite logical to me... I recently got 2 emails from recruiting agencies for the position of IT Manager, who highlighted that they wanted to contact me but did not have my phone number since I had not included it on my CV. They both gave me their phone numbers and requested me to call back. I did call, but as soon as they realized that I was offshore, their interest faded away. So, should I just stop applying for jobs until I land in Sydney? I have a confirmed arrival date in May, 2015 with Tickets booked and all....

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Hi Frozen, I have all round experience in IT but more specifically IT Management (last 3 Years immediate Experience (MSc (Computer Science), MBA (Strategic Management), BSc IT), I also have solid expertise in IT Security (CISA, CISM, CISSP, CEH v8), Software Development (ABAP, PHP, .NET, Java, Javascript) and Infrastructure& Support (ITIL v3, MCITP, MCSE, MCSA, MCTS, MCSA 2012, MCP). I am applying for mostly Senior Business Analyst positions but also anything that I am qualified for in IT Management and IT Security at Mid to Senior Management levels.

Regards, D

 

Hm. Stick to Java. Stay clear of infrastructure and .NET and you will find a job. Whether or not you the salary will be what you expect is a whole other ballgame. As a pointer - I am getting rid of .NET developers and I pay around 325-400 for my Java developers on contracts. For perm I rarely pay over 75k at the moment. It is an employers market in Sydney.

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....but surely it's obvious from your CV that all your experience (including your current job) is overseas. The fact that it (presumably) doesn't include an address or mobile phone number would worry me if I were an employer - I'd think, what are you trying to hide? It would make more sense to be honest, I think.

 

Another question - your CV may be formatted to Australian standards, but are you carefully tailoring each cover letter to the needs of the employer? That means studying the ad, picking out the key requirements and explaining why you satisfy every one of them (briefly, in bullet points). So your cover letter says something like:

 

"I wish to apply for the role of ... advertised in .... I feel my qualifications and experience are well suited to your needs as follows:

 

(bullet points addressing each requirement mentioned in the ad)."

 

If an employer can see you're suitable without even having to look at your CV, you're ahead of the rest of the candidates.

 

 

Thanks for the advice @Marisawright! I have to admit that I've been using a very standard (Non Customized) cover letter for all my applications unfortunately. Thanks for the tip.

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Hm. Stick to Java. Stay clear of infrastructure and .NET and you will find a job. Whether or not you the salary will be what you expect is a whole other ballgame. As a pointer - I am getting rid of .NET developers and I pay around 325-400 for my Java developers on contracts. For perm I rarely pay over 75k at the moment. It is an employers market in Sydney.

 

Hi @Frozen. Are these contract Java Developers Graduate level employees (eg. BSc, BBIT)? Do Papers, Qualifications and Certifications matter much when it comes to securing a job or determining the salary levels in the Australian Market?

Regards, D

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Hi @Frozen. Are these contract Java Developers Graduate level employees (eg. BSc, BBIT)? Do Papers, Qualifications and Certifications matter much when it comes to securing a job or determining the salary levels in the Australian Market?

Regards, D

 

No, these are mid-level roles and one or two senior ones. I look for all of my team members to have at least a Bachelor and some current certifications, not too many because that indicates you haven't done anything but certifications. The market is saturated with qualified people that already have the local experience and the directive from above is to hire CHEAP. So that's unfortunately what I am working on....... I know that IT roles are still on the SOL and CSOL but the market for employees isn't great at the moment, not in Sydney anyway. Choose your location carefully and make a budget before arriving as there might be some time before you get a role that pays OK.

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I don't know the first thing about IT other than how to switch a computer on however I do have some experience now of the jobs market. I secured my current role whilst in UK however have had interviews since. The feedback I have received is very good especially considering I am chartered and have been invited to join another Australian Institute at chartered level so will become twice chartered including with one Australian institute (locally recognised qualification count for a lot)

 

Experience is what employers are after, many qualifications over BSc, BA etc are ignored. You need to interview well, your resume needs to read very well etc. Remember AU employers are receiving pressure and incentives to employ nationals. Also I have never worked in a country where so many people quickly become over promoted beyond their abilities.

 

Best set of luck with it all, maybe re-read your resume, simplify, expand on experience and really just give them what they want. Each of my resumes have been specific to the job as generic resumes do more damage than good. Finally I applied like mad whilst in the UK and secured a position before moving however within 1 week of landing I had 2 other offers from previous applications, I guess they wanted to see if I was serious about moving. VISA type is also important however several employers have since said 457 would not have been an issue.

 

S

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Thanks for the advice @Marisawright! I have to admit that I've been using a very standard (Non Customized) cover letter for all my applications unfortunately. Thanks for the tip.

 

I'm not sure if IT has different standards, but in other fields that would get you nowhere - it shouts "I don't care about your job really, I'm just firing off applications on spec".

 

Personally I've found you can get away with a fairly standard CV provided that letter is customised. Others just customise the CV and don't bother with a letter. Either way, the message is that customising something is absolutely crucial.

 

As for interest fading away when you admit you're overseas - I found exactly the same when I was trying to move from one state to another within Australia. Unfortunately, employers are often forced into short-term thinking because nowadays everyone has cut their staff down to the minimum, so if they need to hire, they can't afford to leave a position empty for two or three months. That means they'll take on the half-decent local person who can start next month, rather than wait for you.

 

Of course if there is a real shortage in your field, they will have to wait - but it doesn't sound like that's so in your case.

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Hm. Stick to Java. Stay clear of infrastructure and .NET and you will find a job. Whether or not you the salary will be what you expect is a whole other ballgame. As a pointer - I am getting rid of .NET developers and I pay around 325-400 for my Java developers on contracts. For perm I rarely pay over 75k at the moment. It is an employers market in Sydney.

 

What's the problem with .NET? Too many .NET devs? Last time I checked .NET was still a very relevant technology.

 

Very interesting thread and I wish the OP good luck in landing a job.

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