MARYROSE02 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The guy in Sydney shows what can happen when people aren't checked out well enough before they are allowed in. Releasing asylum seekers into the community has hopefully taken a giant step backwards after his exploits. There was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald on much the same theme, calling for immigrants, however they come here, to be put on some kind of 'probation.' The article also criticised the way the Church and the Greens both want unlimited refugee intake, based on 'compassion' with no checks, and no restrictions. Note that the SMH is not a Murdoch newspaper and usually takes a left-wing position. I'm sure the letters page tomorrow will be full of the usual peculiar and irrational rants against this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Record number of asylum seeker deaths at sea in 2014: International Organisation for Migration http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/record-number-of-asylum-seeker-deaths-at-sea-in-2014-international-organisation-for-migration-20141217-12903h.html As long as it happens outside Australian waters we can ignore it, right? So if they drown in the Bay of Bengal is it Australias fault, or problem? if the answer is yes then is it our fault/problem if they are killed trying to get out of their country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 So if they drown in the Bay of Bengal is it Australias fault, or problem? if the answer is yes then is it our fault/problem if they are killed trying to get out of their country? If people are drowning in the Bay of Bengal, the government surely cannot claim that 'stopping the boats' has meant no deaths at sea - they've just happened far enough away to that they haven't been Australia's problem to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If people are drowning in the Bay of Bengal (and that is a big if), the government surely cannot claim that 'stopping the boats' has meant no deaths at sea - they've just happened far enough away to that they haven't been Australia's problem to deal with. According to International Organisation for Migration (IOM) figures released this week, the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014 the above paragraph is taken from the source you linked. So you you still think its unlikely? The australian government can only try and stop deaths at sea by putting things in place in Australian waters. Ie, deterring the arrival of asylum seekers by boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 According to International Organisation for Migration (IOM) figures released this week, the crossing from the Mediterranean to Europe claimed over 3000 lives, while 540 migrants died in the Bay of Bengal. At least 307 died trying to cross the land border between Mexico and the USA. There have been no known asylum seeker deaths in Australian waters in 2014 the above paragraph is taken from the source you linked. So you you still think its unlikely? The australian government can only try and stop deaths at sea by putting things in place in Australian waters. Ie, deterring the arrival of asylum seekers by boats. Oops I didn't read my own link properly. So, now that we know 540 people have lost their lives in the Bay of Bengal the government soundbites about the number of people dying trying to reach Australia dropping to zero under their watch are false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oops I didn't read my own link properly. So, now that we know 540 people have lost their lives in the Bay of Bengal the government soundbites about the number of people dying trying to reach Australia dropping to zero under their watch are false. Does it say in the report exactly where they were headed? Perhaps you could explain exactly at what point Australia takes responsibility. You seem to think that once a boat is underway, but not yet in Australian jurisdiction, that it still becomes Australia responsibility. Does that responsibility begin as soon as a boat leaves port? Out of territorial waters? Could we extend it backwards a bit. If someone wakes up intent on claiming asylum in Australia, but is run over on the way to catch a boat, are we to blame? Would that count as someone "dying trying to reach Australia"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oops I didn't read my own link properly. So, now that we know 540 people have lost their lives in the Bay of Bengal the government soundbites about the number of people dying trying to reach Australia dropping to zero under their watch are false. I suppose these people dying are the Aus governments fault as well? Below, taken from you other article you linked to And not all the deaths at sea are merely from drowning, according to the report: “One in every three interviewees said at least one other passenger on their boat died en route; one in every 10 said 10 or more people died on board. Deaths were attributed to severe beatings by the crew, lack of food and water, illness, and heat.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Obviously the 400 or so per year that dies in Australia's waters each year were in addition to any that died in Bay of Bengal or other oceans of the world in previous years also. You can't seriously suggest that the lives saved in Australian waters have somehow now been lost in Bay of Bengal. That is crazy talk. Obviously we have saved something like 400 lives per year through our policies, but I don't think we ever said we would solve all refugee problems throughout the whole world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 There was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald on much the same theme, calling for immigrants, however they come here, to be put on some kind of 'probation.' The article also criticised the way the Church and the Greens both want unlimited refugee intake, based on 'compassion' with no checks, and no restrictions. Note that the SMH is not a Murdoch newspaper and usually takes a left-wing position. I'm sure the letters page tomorrow will be full of the usual peculiar and irrational rants against this article. As all immigrants including asylum seekers, according to the police's own figures, commit all crimes at a lower rate than Australian-born residents, it would be 'peculiar and irrational' to impose this. It was suggested a couple of years ago by some nincompoop politician until facts caused it to be laughed out of existence. As an immigrant maybe I should be asking dangerous Australians to be kept away from me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 As all immigrants including asylum seekers, according to the police's own figures, commit all crimes at a lower rate than Australian-born residents, it would be 'peculiar and irrational' to impose this. It was suggested a couple of years ago by some nincompoop politician until facts caused it to be laughed out of existence. As an immigrant maybe I should be asking dangerous Australians to be kept away from me... hard to believe statements like your straight after the deadly Sydney Siege by an Iranian refugee and many other horror stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 hard to believe statements like your straight after the deadly Sydney Siege by an Iranian refugee and many other horror stories. Problem is that the "many other horror stories" are just that; stories. It's true though, immigrants cause less crime than nationals. But it's a poor demographic to base policy on. It's also true that men commit more crime than women. And that young men commit more crime than old men. If you want to lower the overall crime rate, bring in young, foreign women. It's a matter of statistical fact that 18-25 year old Botswanan women have never been convicted of white collar crime in Australia. If we're looking to replace the board of the RBA, what better place to find their successors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 hard to believe statements like your straight after the deadly Sydney Siege by an Iranian refugee and many other horror stories. Not sure there are 'many other horror stories' - but Australian-born residents are quite capable of killing each other with guns in large numbers:last year 39 people were shot in Sydney, 14 of them in one month alone. In the seven years from 2005 to 2012, gun murders across Australia almost doubled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 There was a horrible case recently where a refugee murdered his wife in the Sydney CBD. Another asylum seeker self immolated in Geelong. Nasty stuff. I'm sure there are others. Obviously Australians commit crimes too but we don't want to import any more than we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 hard to believe statements like your straight after the deadly Sydney Siege by an Iranian refugee and many other horror stories. No - airalx was just applying logic. The worst mass murderer in modern Australia (Martin Bryant) was the son of an English migrant. If you want to extrapolate the behaviour of one individual to a whole group, then logically we should have special provisions for English migrants and their children. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Did your mother ever teach you "2 wrongs don't make a right" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurPendragon Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 A nice article on our refugee intake by Paul Sheehan in The SMH (which I presume is not right wing). http://www.smh.com.au/comment/monis-proves-we-need-to-sort-out-our-immigration-mistakes-20141217-1297f1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Obviously Australians commit crimes too but we don't want to import any more than we already have. No - Australians commit *more* crimes. We should restrict Australians giving birth and increase immigration to make Australia a safer place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 A nice article on our refugee intake by Paul Sheehan in The SMH (which I presume is not right wing). http://www.smh.com.au/comment/monis-proves-we-need-to-sort-out-our-immigration-mistakes-20141217-1297f1.html I would agree with one letter writer in the same paper: 'As for Abbott questioning why this man is an Australian citizen, I would say that of all the many thousands of people that are granted citizenship, if only one mentally unstable person ends up terrorising others then our citizenship laws are perfectly adequate.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Do you have any evidence to back up these claims of yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Did your mother ever teach you "2 wrongs don't make a right" ? Not sure I understand that comment. Or do you mean 'As Australian-born citizens are the most dangerous people in the country, we should restrict immigration in case they are almost as dangerous?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Can you stop posting if you are just going to make ridiculous statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Do you have any evidence to back up these claims of yours ? Do you mean me? You want some evidence to show that men commit more crime than women? Or that young men commit more crime than old men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Do you mean me? You want some evidence to show that men commit more crime than women? Or that young men commit more crime than old men? No I want some evidence to support the notion that a population of say 1000 asylum seekers will commit less crime than the same number of Australian born citizens. Preferably not an article from The Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 No I want some evidence to support the notion that a population of say 1000 asylum seekers will commit less crime than the same number of Australian born citizens. Preferably not an article from The Guardian. From the same socio-economic class, I suppose. As it happens, I did have a genuine link but it relates to immigration into Switzerland. It followed similar accusations to your own; that immigrants are more likely to commit crime. The study showed that migrants from the former Yugoslavia did have a higher incidence of incarceration. But immigrants from other areas didn't. And, as I tried to point out, the key demographic marker was gender, closely followed by age. Young Australian males commit far more crime than females of any origin. Now, would you use this information to target young men in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You wouldn't make a very good scientist. You have no proof whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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