Why does Immigration put more emphasis on age than experience and qualifications

[benthomas010]

Many visas don't require English proficiency. Dependents can be included in skilled visa applications without demonstrating English proficiency and simply paying the secondary fee.

The secondary fee for dependants who cannot pass the English test is in exceed of $5000. And it is not a way out of it - the are still supposed to take lessons and pass the test once they arrive in Australia. (that's what the money is for allegedly)

 

I have no idea what happens if they don't pass the test though.

 

There are visa's which don't require English proficiency test - but only for native speakers who can meet the points without it. Anyone from else where has to pass the test no matter what visa they are coming on.

[benthomas010]

Thank you for seeing my point, and yes you are right i have spoken to many a British person who i do actually have to think how they have made it through life with their lack of spoken English.

 

Hope you don't get any backlash for seeing my point :jiggy:

Are you not contradicting your entire post in the sentence?

[fletchaman]

Are you not contradicting your entire post in the sentence?

 

Nope because the majority of these individuals would only be emigrating on mommies purse strings, as unfortunately the individuals i have met would not have a qualification to be assessed for skilled migrant!

[CollegeGirl]

The secondary fee for dependants who cannot pass the English test is in exceed of $5000. And it is not a way out of it - the are still supposed to take lessons and pass the test once they arrive in Australia. (that's what the money is for allegedly)

 

I have no idea what happens if they don't pass the test though.

 

There are visa's which don't require English proficiency test - but only for native speakers who can meet the points without it. Anyone from else where has to pass the test no matter what visa they are coming on.

 

Partner visas do not have any sort of English language test.

[benthomas010]

Partner visas do not have any sort of English language test.

Really? Wow. I'm amazed by that. It should be mandatory - as it is in the UK.

[CollegeGirl]

Yep, sponsors do have to promise to help their partners learn English if they don't already know it once they get here, and I believe those who come over on a partner visa are eligible for English classes as well. Not positive as I never paid much attention to that since I'm a native speaker myself. But I am positive there's no requirement to speak English to get a partner visa.

[benthomas010]

Yep, sponsors do have to promise to help their partners learn English if they don't already know it once they get here, and I believe those who come over on a partner visa are eligible for English classes as well. Not positive as I never paid much attention to that since I'm a native speaker myself. But I am positive there's no requirement to speak English to get a partner visa.

I have checked and yiu are correct. Looks like a big gap in the requirements to me.

 

It's needed to being a partner into the UK (from outside europe). then again - we don't ask for the police checks which Australia do.

[Alnaibii]

The secondary fee for dependants who cannot pass the English test is in exceed of $5000. And it is not a way out of it - the are still supposed to take lessons and pass the test once they arrive in Australia. (that's what the money is for allegedly)

 

I have no idea what happens if they don't pass the test though.

 

There is no English test for dependents. They take your money for English lessons, but they do not require you to attend, or sit any kind of test.

[benthomas010]

There is no English test for dependents. They take your money for English lessons, but they do not require you to attend, or sit any kind of test.

Who do you mean by dependents? on a 189 skilled migration visa if your partner is not a native speaker they have to pass IELTS with an overall score of 4.5 or higher, or pay a secondary fee in excess of $5000 in addition to the near $2000 visa fee.

 

I am going through this process at the moment with my wife.

[engaus]

I have checked and yiu are correct. Looks like a big gap in the requirements to me.

 

It's needed to being a partner into the UK (from outside europe). then again - we don't ask for the police checks which Australia do.

 

 

You can most certainly get a spouse visa in the UK without sitting an English language test, even if you are from a country outside Europe. I don't need one coming from Australia. They ask for it for all countries who don't prodominately speak English.

[MaggieMay24]

Dependents would be any accompanying family on your visa. If they are over 18, they need to prove functional English either through holding an eligible passport, taking IELTS or providing other eligible evidence (studies undertaken in English, etc.) or pay the additional fee. They could simply pay the fee and be granted a visa without being able to speak a word of English.

[benthomas010]

You can most certainly get a spouse visa in the UK without sitting an English language test, even if you are from a country outside Europe. I don't need one coming from Australia. They ask for it for all countries who don't prodominately speak English.

So most countries then....:-)

[benthomas010]

Dependents would be any accompanying family on your visa. If they are over 18, they need to prove functional English either through holding an eligible passport, taking IELTS or providing other eligible evidence (studies undertaken in English, etc.) or pay the additional fee. They could simply pay the fee and be granted a visa without being able to speak a word of English.

I just think that is so wrong that they give them the option to pay to get around the English requirement.

 

I know it's not easy for everyone to learn the language - but if you want people to integrate it's the only way.

 

at least they've made it so prohibitively expensive most people would try to take the English test first.

[CollegeGirl]

I just think that is so wrong that they give them the option to pay to get around the English requirement.

 

I know it's not easy for everyone to learn the language - but if you want people to integrate it's the only way.

 

at least they've made it so prohibitively expensive most people would try to take the English test first.

 

Have you ever lived in a country where they DON'T speak English? My guess is you haven't. I studied Spanish all through school and uni, and still, when I did a semester abroad in Spain in college, it took me months to get to where I would have felt comfortable enough to sit any sort of Spanish language competency test for immigration purposes, and I STILL would have been scared out of my mind doing it. Other languages come naturally to some people - they never did for me. Of course it's necessary to learn the language to integrate into any given culture - but that can take a LOT of time, and to force people to put their lives and their careers on hold until their partners can master English (which is actually a pretty difficult language to master) would seem very unfair to me.

[benthomas010]

Have you ever lived in a country where they DON'T speak English? My guess is you haven't. I studied Spanish all through school and uni, and still, when I did a semester abroad in Spain in college, it took me months to get to where I would have felt comfortable enough to sit any sort of Spanish language competency test for immigration purposes, and I STILL would have been scared out of my mind doing it. Other languages come naturally to some people - they never did for me. Of course it's necessary to learn the language to integrate into any given culture - but that can take a LOT of time, and to force people to put their lives and their careers on hold until their partners can master English (which is actually a pretty difficult language to master) would seem very unfair to me.

Level 4.5 is barely mastering a language. It's enough to get by. To survive a day on your own.

 

I know tests are re stressful. .. my wife is having to sit IELTS soon for our Australia visa and is dreading it, unfortunately the one she had to sit for her UK visa isn't accepted by Australia.

 

So I know how difficult and stressful it can be. However... its key to being able to integrate. Being able to survive without your partner by your side 24 hours per day. One would imagine to have have a relationship and marriage with an Australian yiu would need a pretty good grasp of English in the first place.

[Alnaibii]

Who do you mean by dependents? on a 189 skilled migration visa if your partner is not a native speaker they have to pass IELTS with an overall score of 4.5 or higher, or pay a secondary fee in excess of $5000 in addition to the near $2000 visa fee.

 

I am going through this process at the moment with my wife.

 

Yes, there is IELTS, as explained in the posts above.

What I was saying, if the dependents do not get 4.5 overall (dependents have been explained above by MaggieMay), you have to pay the 2nd Instalment, aka VAC2, aka English Education Charge (EEC).

This fee is in theory for taking English classes, but this is not compulsory, nor should you pass any test afterwards.

[Jowill]

For an English speaking Individual you would need to be 32 years old with at least 8 out of 10 years experience as a Doctor to slip into the immigration skilled independent, obviously that is impossible but as you start getting your experience you lose your age points, so an experienced Doctor aged 45 has less chance of getting a visa than a 32 year old minimum experienced Doctor, purely because he/she is older. So I do not understand why they have an age limit of 50 because as soon as you hit 40 its pretty pointless trying, unless you are willing to spend money on going back to the classroom to prove you know the mother tongue.

 

Is obtaining the actual points without having to obtain additional points actually doable?

 

After reading the thread, I really don't get it. What do you mean?

Everyone needs to prove they have English skills - just that if you're a NZ citizen you can get a concession by way of your passport.

It's not really spending "extra" money. You're just saving money cos everyone else in the world would need to sit IELTS. If that doesn't give you enough points and you think your English is good enough for the 5 or 10 points then you'd need to sit the test to prove it like everyone else?

 

It's the same idea as a PhD being worth more points than a Bachelors degree. It'd also "cost" you a lot to do a PhD over just a Bachelor's degree......

 

Thought if you're a NZ citizen you'd be more interested in how NZers already living in Australia don't particular get any concessions for the skills independent visa. No consideration of age concessions etc if they have already lived for years in Australia and paid heaps of taxes.

 

And you'd get the same Medicare as everyone else if you're a NZ citizen living permanently in Australia. If you want to call that "limited".....

It's the disability support (i.e. new NDIS), Centrelink etc that you'd miss out on.