Bulk billing is dead. Not a good time to be in Australia if you are sick

[Harpodom]

do you mean Tony?!

 

Too late!

[weaver]

If you cannot afford a car, do not either buy a car, or commit to repayment schedule - reposession will follow

If you cannot afford to eat in a restaurant, do not go in and order a meal

If you cannot afford to buy a house, do not buy a house

 

If you cannot afford to feed, clothe and educate a child, do not have a child, and another, and another. We do not want to feed, clothe and educate them for you.

 

As the Meerkat says: "Simples, no?"

And to those who find themselves in dire straits due to no fault of their own you would say........?

[docboat]

That is essentially the tory credo in Yoda speak. Perhaps you should become a spin doctor instead of an ED doctor

 

No Harpo, that is the essential facts of household budgeting. That is the essence of staying afloat as a household. That is the eternal truth of staying out of poverty. Do not spend what you do not have. Do not plan to spend more than you will have available to make ends meet.

 

Or, put more plainly, do not be a financial idiot.

[Tina2]

Does that example actually exist ?

I wouldn't be doing volunteer work instead of paid work if I was that poor I was struggling to make ends meet, and having to pay child care costs in order to do this volunteer work ?

 

Did you just make up this example ? Is it realistic ?

Well it just goes to show Parleycross you have no idea what is going on in many parts of Australia when people are willing to do just about "anything" to secure a job or increase there chance of getting a job

[docboat]

And to those who find themselves in dire straits due to no fault of their own you would say........?

 

Now there is where we can, and should, have welfare support.

 

Unlike in many Asian countries. Where people do actually thrive despite having come to expect that there is absolutely no safety net. Which is why, when they come over here, they are surprised - astounded - that our society chucks so much money away. We are so far away from being able to emulate that thinking, that it would be impossible for us to copy.

[MovingtoTasmania]

"For people who genuinely need help it should be there" - exactly! But this budget is taking money away from these people, that's what a lot of us on this thread are so annoyed about. I don't see how $7 copayment is going to stop a dole bludger - I expect they're the ones who always go to emergency rooms anyway as I doubt they have GPs. Hospital admissions will increase due to reduced GP visits - prevention is far cheaper than cure - emergency departments will suffer even more. Homelessness will increase, poverty will increase, there will probably be a bigger social divide between the haves and have nots. Charities will have to provide way more ..... but it will be all worth it in the long run?!

 

I can't say what will be worth it. I can only speak from my personal experience, which is that I personally don't buy into this whole "let me put my hand out" scenario and I never have. I, like @docboat, believe that if you can't afford it, you don't have it. I wonder how many of the people who will be directly be affected by this $7 copayment either drink occasionally or have takeaways or smoke? Government can't police people but then if people can't be sensible with money either, then what is your suggestion? You seem to think that everything I say is wrong and that people should churn out kids without pausing to think of the consequences, well what is your answer then?

[Tina2]

If you cannot afford a car, do not either buy a car, or commit to repayment schedule - reposession will follow

If you cannot afford to eat in a restaurant, do not go in and order a meal

If you cannot afford to buy a house, do not buy a house

 

If you cannot afford to feed, clothe and educate a child, do not have a child, and another, and another. We do not want to feed, clothe and educate them for you.

 

 

As the Meerkat says: "Simples, no?"

So may I ask what would you like people to do with children that were planned and born into a marrage which then breaks down and the vacant father has no interest in supporting the children and the government is to weak to make them pay or they are contractors who are able to hide most of there income, and the mother is earning, and learning to try to support herself and the children but cant make ends meet ????????? Do you want the kids taken off a caring parent and maybe put up for adoption ????

[MovingtoTasmania]

That is essentially the tory credo in Yoda speak. Perhaps you should become a spin doctor instead of an ED doctor

 

I would have thought it was more like commonsense. When did living beyond your means become so commonplace that when someone suggests living within your means, it's spin?

[MovingtoTasmania]

So may I ask what would you like people to do with children that were planned and born into a marrage which then breaks down and the vacant father has no interest in supporting the children and the government is to weak to make them pay or they are contractors who are able to hide most of there income, and the mother is earning, and learning to try to support herself and the children but cant make ends meet ????????? Do you want the kids taken off a caring parent and maybe put up for adoption ????

 

Money stopped at source, such as straight out of bank account as soon as paid in. Since we are spied on constantly (or so conspiracy theorists would have us believe) I think it would be quite easy for the money to come out of the bank immediately and I think it's absolutely disgusting that this person is able to just walk away without a second glance. In fact, I would go so far as to say that all income should be paid to a 3rd party and this person gets pocket money each week and rent money but only for a room and the rest goes to support his family.

[weaver]

Money stopped at source, such as straight out of bank account as soon as paid in. Since we are spied on constantly (or so conspiracy theorists would have us believe) I think it would be quite easy for the money to come out of the bank immediately and I think it's absolutely disgusting that this person is able to just walk away without a second glance. In fact, I would go so far as to say that all income should be paid to a 3rd party and this person gets pocket money each week and rent money but only for a room and the rest goes to support his family.

The trouble is that as Tina2 says, if the money is hidden (usually only possible by the self-employed), then it is almost impossible to make an assessment of what the absent parent can afford to pay

[Katie22]

I can't say what will be worth it. I can only speak from my personal experience, which is that I personally don't buy into this whole "let me put my hand out" scenario and I never have. I, like @docboat, believe that if you can't afford it, you don't have it. I wonder how many of the people who will be directly be affected by this $7 copayment either drink occasionally or have takeaways or smoke? Government can't police people but then if people can't be sensible with money either, then what is your suggestion? You seem to think that everything I say is wrong and that people should churn out kids without pausing to think of the consequences, well what is your answer then?

I have said so many times that I do not support the so called "dole bludgers", and yes if people on low incomes are buying cigarettes and alcohol then sure they can afford the copayment. I am talking about the people who do not abuse the system, the vulnerable, the elderly, the disabled etc., these are the people who will suffer. If the liberals want to attack these "dole bludgers" then they need to look far more closely at their welfare system and attempt to put steps in place to target the right people. But they're not doing that, they're targeting everyone on a low income, earning or not. And their propogranda is making lots of people believe what they're doing is right too, that's the sad thing.

 

Of course people shouldn't produce child after child if they can't afford it, but we're heading into dangerous territory if we're talking about sterilising them - I don't know what the answer to that one is, I wish I did.

[MovingtoTasmania]

The trouble is that as Tina2 says, if the money is hidden (usually only possible by the self-employed), then it is almost impossible to make an assessment of what the absent parent can afford to pay

 

We could perhaps assess the absent parent's lifestyle? If they have to live like paupers without any luxury they may think it's not worth it and put their hand in their pocket. I don't understand the mentality of these people tbh.

[MovingtoTasmania]

I have said so many times that I do not support the so called "dole bludgers", and yes if people on low incomes are buying cigarettes and alcohol then sure they can afford the copayment. I am talking about the people who do not abuse the system, the vulnerable, the elderly, the disabled etc., these are the people who will suffer. If the liberals want to attack these "dole bludgers" then they need to look far more closely at their welfare system and attempt to put steps in place to target the right people. But they're not doing that, they're targeting everyone on a low income, earning or not. And their propogranda is making lots of people believe what they're doing is right too, that's the sad thing.

 

Of course people shouldn't produce child after child if they can't afford it, but we're heading into dangerous territory if we're talking about sterilising them - I don't know what the answer to that one is, I wish I did.

 

And I have repeatedly said that we, as a society, have an obligation to ensure that the vulnerable are looked after first. I think my chemical castration idea has merit though :wink:

[weaver]

We could perhaps assess the absent parent's lifestyle? If they have to live like paupers without any luxury they may think it's not worth it and put their hand in their pocket. I don't understand the mentality of these people tbh.

 

I think it's back to the ME ME ME syndrome

[MovingtoTasmania]

I think it's back to the ME ME ME syndrome

 

I definitely agree. Sickening though.

[docboat]

So may I ask what would you like people to do with children that were planned and born into a marrage which then breaks down and the vacant father has no interest in supporting the children and the government is to weak to make them pay or they are contractors who are able to hide most of there income, and the mother is earning, and learning to try to support herself and the children but cant make ends meet ????????? Do you want the kids taken off a caring parent and maybe put up for adoption ????

 

So you are advocating that we abrogate our responsibilities when the going gets tough? I think that is NOT what you are saying. I think you are saying that society should take over responsibility for the failure of members of society to look after themselves when they are in strife. So we make it easier for people to fail, and then let them stay in failure because it is a responsibility of society, after all, to look after those who are in strife.

 

In Hong Kong, as an example, there is very little social support, but you do have families, who assume those responsibilities. Asian thinking, you see. Even more so in China proper.

 

But in a society where families are split, where marriage is frowned upon and devotion to one partner " 'til death us do part" is old-fashioned, where it is OK to chuck your partner if the relationship breaks down and run off with another partner, to "do your own thing", for a breakdown in society and all that was considered normal family life until the 1960's, all that used to support the family, the wife, the children has been swept away by time and modern thinking .... and now we need the government to do that which was normally done by the family, the parents, the children, the relatives. The cases of genuiine hardship and distress merge with cases where it is just convenient to ditch your sprog (deliberately using that word, denigrating the child as an example of how low society has fallen) - and we pick up the pieces and think we are doing a good thing. Which we are, but it also perpetuates the root causes of the problem, and that will take a catastrophe to revert.

 

Answer? Dunno. All I know is that type of thinking I see here is a wonderful example of why there is no real progress. It is just a PC-bickering and labelling. Socialist, right wing, thought bubbles and sound bites

[Katie22]

And I have repeatedly said that we, as a society, have an obligation to ensure that the vulnerable are looked after first. I think my chemical castration idea has merit though :wink:

Yay, we agree on something! - well not sure about the castration bit though ......!!!!

[docboat]

chemical castration does not actually work. Physical castration, on the other hand, does.

[weaver]

So you are advocating that we abrogate our responsibilities when the going gets tough? I think that is NOT what you are saying. I think you are saying that society should take over responsibility for the failure of members of society to look after themselves when they are in strife. So we make it easier for people to fail, and then let them stay in failure because it is a responsibility of society, after all, to look after those who are in strife.

 

In Hong Kong, as an example, there is very little social support, but you do have families, who assume those responsibilities. Asian thinking, you see. Even more so in China proper.

 

But in a society where families are split, where marriage is frowned upon and devotion to one partner " 'til death us do part" is old-fashioned, where it is OK to chuck your partner if the relationship breaks down and run off with another partner, to "do your own thing", for a breakdown in society and all that was considered normal family life until the 1960's, all that used to support the family, the wife, the children has been swept away by time and modern thinking .... and now we need the government to do that which was normally done by the family, the parents, the children, the relatives. The cases of genuiine hardship and distress merge with cases where it is just convenient to ditch your sprog (deliberately using that word, denigrating the child as an example of how low society has fallen) - and we pick up the pieces and think we are doing a good thing. Which we are, but it also perpetuates the root causes of the problem, and that will take a catastrophe to revert.

 

Answer? Dunno. All I know is that type of thinking I see here is a wonderful example of why there is no real progress. It is just a PC-bickering and labelling. Socialist, right wing, thought bubbles and sound bites

Sadly, I think a lot of what you are saying is correct, but I still feel that it would be a sad situation if we failed to care for those in real need. Surely it is up to the government in power to be able to put in place some means of separating the wheat from the chaff and is this not part of what they are paid to do?

[Katie22]

chemical castration does not actually work. Physical castration, on the other hand, does.

Now surely that's a little bit mean?!

[MovingtoTasmania]

Now surely that's a little bit mean?!

 

I don't :wink:. I could even wield the axe if you like :happy_face_outlaw_s

[wakeboard1980]

Wow, this thread is very much alive and kicking, I go out for a few hours and a few are certainly getting a bit hot under the collar

[MovingtoTasmania]

Wow, this thread is very much alive and kicking, I go out for a few hours and a few are certainly getting a bit hot under the collar

 

Keeps life interesting :tongue:

[Paul1Perth]

No more bludgers. Why should I,work though? Haven't I done enough at 60? Let a 20 yo do my job and I can get disability pension for being anxious,and,depressed?

 

Maryrose, if you are 60, anxious and depressed and you can get a disability pension then go for it mate. No one would begrudge you surely? If this government has it's way though that option won't be there, you'll have to struggle through.

 

I would never had picked you as an anxious or depressed type either, your posts are usually about having a good time, being out, meeting people.

[jasepom]

Thanks for the link to the PM's website Diane (in your lefty blog).

Some interesting stuff there I'll have a look through.

 

But listen to our Prime Minister explain the need for a tough budget.

 

 

 

So parleycross you believe everything this right wing govt tells you. They couldn't come up with accurate figures if their life depended on it. They are also fairly racist policy of stop the boats was a real election winner. This country is on a slippery slope.