I would love to move back to the UK, but it is so hard.

[Petals]

Well I wouldn't stay here if it was not for me encouraging my kids to come over and seeing Australia as some sort of magic bulletin! But unfortunately for me one did partner up with an an Australian, although she wold still say we wished she hadn't come here. But she is trying to make the best of it. I feel so dreadfully guilty that I encouraged my two daughters to come here, one has gone back and I dearly miss her so much, but the other one is basically stuck here......all my fault!!!!

 

Try to look at the positives, both my brother and I were taken here and there by our parents and from time to time we have a session of recriminations against our parents. However our parents are not the guardians of our happiness we have to make our own. Of course there are times when we wish that they had stayed in the UK and not pulled us to pillar and post but when we both look at our lives now we have very good lives and the main thing was they loved us I guess. The not belonging bit is the lot of a migrant and their first generation of children, after that everything settles into a normal family life. The world is a village now and most families will have relatives that are living in different countries, or different towns and do not see each other as often as they like. However we have to think of the positives of life and the nice people we meet along our life's path. We choose our friends and they give us great joy wherever we are living. Watering the friendships is what its all about.

[flag of convenience]

Don't feel the need to denigrate anyone for anything, just bemused at folk that whinge but do nothing about it.

 

Why would someone join a website just to whinge about Perth without doing anything eh flag? Just don't get it myself oh well leave you to your whinging enjoy.

 

I'm sure if an individual was in a position to they surely would don't you? Being a website for Brit's in OZ, why on earth wouldn't they come on and air their grievances, being a logical place to do so? You don't need to get it. A thread on the weather report or something akin being perhaps more appropriate perhaps for those unable to cope with the reality of life as others find it.

[Guest Guest 47403]

I'm sure if an individual was in a position to they surely would don't you? Being a website for Brit's in OZ, why on earth wouldn't they come on and air their grievances, being a logical place to do so? You don't need to get it. A thread on the weather report or something akin being perhaps more appropriate perhaps for those unable to cope with the reality of life as others find it.

 

No the weather gets boring as does the whinging, if that's why you joined to whine so be it as I say don't see the point myself, but if putting in to print your whinges helps the afflicted so be it, rather take actions though personally.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Guest 47403

[Bridgeman]

At the risk of being jumped on by less sympathetic members of this forum I would like to add my support for the OP. I agree to some extent with what she is saying and being in a similar situation ourselves can understand her frustration at the dilemma she is in. I empathise with her feelings of feeling trapped.

 

We already had family here and also encouraged our children to come to Australia in the belief that it would offer a better life for them. We were fortunate enough to be able to join one of our children – the other one has not made the final decision and we left them behind and they are now in Europe. However, we weren’t expecting to end up in WA which does not really suit us and is expensive. So we have a dilemma and some very tough choices. Stay here where our family needs our support but are not really happy or move elsewhere away from family and grandchildren and still be unhappy. It is not so easy just to go back to the UK or elsewhere.

[Rupert]

At the risk of being jumped on by less sympathetic members of this forum I would like to add my support for the OP. I agree to some extent with what she is saying and being in a similar situation ourselves can understand her frustration at the dilemma she is in. I empathise with her feelings of feeling trapped.

 

We already had family here and also encouraged our children to come to Australia in the belief that it would offer a better life for them. We were fortunate enough to be able to join one of our children – the other one has not made the final decision and we left them behind and they are now in Europe. However, we weren’t expecting to end up in WA which does not really suit us and is expensive. So we have a dilemma and some very tough choices. Stay here where our family needs our support but are not really happy or move elsewhere away from family and grandchildren and still be unhappy. It is not so easy just to go back to the UK or elsewhere.

 

I consider myself to be quite neutral, in that I am not pro or against either Australia or UK. I have a lot of sympathy with anyone who finds that they are in a place they don't want to be, particularly as I was once that person myself on a previous jaunt living overseas. However the OP started this thread with insulting generalisations (and some really quite odd observations) about Australians and accordingly, I think it was bound to provoke some reaction. I don't think people are generally without sympathy to the OPs situation.

[Lostlily]

its not an odd comment when I see people complain about their standard of living and are also insulting the nation that gave that standard of living. It was most likely Australian business owners that has made that standard of living possible by offering jobs to whinging poms. If they see some of the posts on here from whinging poms they may not bother in the future. After all English people are sooo much better educated they can fend for themselves.

 

I see where you are coming from and I have to admit I was blazing somewhat when I wrote my post.

BUT Nobody gave me a job when I came here, we set up our own business and actually employed quite a few Australians.

Also my husband loves it here and I love him, so I am not prepared to break up a happy marriage to live permanently back in the UK.

Last year we went back for 6 months, I have to say for me it did feel like home. We tried to do something positive for the happiness of both of us, but you wouldn't have a clue how very difficult it is if e.g.. you try to buy a small property and a car there and spend 6 months in each place.

We were banging our heads against a brick wall and coming up with numerous obstacles.

As soon as you own a property there there are severe and I mean seriously severe tax implications which for us made it unviable. Same problem if you lease somewhere, for tax purposes you are considered "UK resident" if you have a place available there to stay.

We thought ok, we will buy a car, as it is so expensive to hire one there for a long period, but apparently you cannot hire or buy a car there long term, because you cannot get insurance as once you have an Australian driving licence, you are considered to have surrendered your UK drivers licence. You need a UK drivers licence to get the insurance, the only way to do that is to surrender your Australian driving licence.

In previous years, friends or relatives lent us a car and we were put on as an extra driver, that is no longer possible.

So please don't just assume I have been whinging for the last 3 years and made no effort to find a solution.

Admitted I am now depressed, I guess I just want to warn people to think of the long term consequences of migration.

So in the end we hired a car through an Australian website, the whole situation was crazy.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody, but I guess we all lose it occasionally and I lost it the other night.

 

There are many regrets, things we take for granted like not seeing extended family. Terrible loneliness, missing people you have taken for granted your whole lives.

I go back every year, so I am realistic enough to know how the UK has changed

 

So that is it really.

[Rupert]

Lily, why is your husband standing by and watching you this unhappy and now in depression? If I were this unhappy, and as I said in my last post, I once was, my husband would not dream of watching me suffer. Of course it is tricky if one wants to go and one wants to stay, but surely if one person has been diagnosed with depression and is seriously unhappy, their needs are greater. I would not allow my husband to sink into depression either if it were that way round, his needs would come first. What is his position on your living situation, is he adamant he will not move?

 

Rgarding trying to make it work. I am curious as to what severe tax implications you could be referring to. A far as I am aware bothAustralia and UK only levy tax on profits and income, so how can it be severe? That is like refusing a very well paid job because there will be a lot of tax to pay in income.

[Gbye grey sky]

For my part I certainly recognised that the OP you posted was out of depression and frustration. The primary reason we decided against WA (because it looks fabulous and I am longing to visit) as a destination is the isolation so I can really empathise with that.

 

I know that this may sound really trite but if you have fully explored your options and occasional trips to Europe is the best on offer then I feel you will be better off focussing on the positives of your life (and it seems there are many) if only for your peace of mind. There are many worse places to be trapped than Perth as you probably realise. Dwelling on the negatives and focussing on regrets is a path to misery.

 

Hope you can make it work out one way or another.

[wakeboard1980]

I see where you are coming from and I have to admit I was blazing somewhat when I wrote my post.

BUT Nobody gave me a job when I came here, we set up our own business and actually employed quite a few Australians.

Also my husband loves it here and I love him, so I am not prepared to break up a happy marriage to live permanently back in the UK.

Last year we went back for 6 months, I have to say for me it did feel like home. We tried to do something positive for the happiness of both of us, but you wouldn't have a clue how very difficult it is if e.g.. you try to buy a small property and a car there and spend 6 months in each place.

We were banging our heads against a brick wall and coming up with numerous obstacles.

As soon as you own a property there there are severe and I mean seriously severe tax implications which for us made it unviable. Same problem if you lease somewhere, for tax purposes you are considered "UK resident" if you have a place available there to stay.

We thought ok, we will buy a car, as it is so expensive to hire one there for a long period, but apparently you cannot hire or buy a car there long term, because you cannot get insurance as once you have an Australian driving licence, you are considered to have surrendered your UK drivers licence. You need a UK drivers licence to get the insurance, the only way to do that is to surrender your Australian driving licence.

In previous years, friends or relatives lent us a car and we were put on as an extra driver, that is no longer possible.

So please don't just assume I have been whinging for the last 3 years and made no effort to find a solution.

Admitted I am now depressed, I guess I just want to warn people to think of the long term consequences of migration.

So in the end we hired a car through an Australian website, the whole situation was crazy.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody, but I guess we all lose it occasionally and I lost it the other night.

 

There are many regrets, things we take for granted like not seeing extended family. Terrible loneliness, missing people you have taken for granted your whole lives.

I go back every year, so I am realistic enough to know how the UK has changed

 

So that is it really.

 

At least you have apologised, like you said everyone loses it every now and again.

 

What does your husband think about you being so unhappy?

 

We were in the same boat back in 2010-2011, my wife was very unhappy in Aus, we came back to the UK because it was easier for me to be here than for her to be there.

[starlight7]

Hate to say it but I think by constantly returning to the UK you tend to feed the misery and renew it each time you go. I think this because I have 2 friends who do the same thing. Each time they return they have a period of deep depression until they re-adjust to our very different lifestyle. Perth - I couldn't stand living there but that is me. You must be aware that not all Australia is like that and not all Australians want McMansions and focus on material things. It is not wall to wall bogans though there are plenty around of course and when I see education cuts etc mooted by the government I think- yup, Australia doesn't value education - but I think this is not really the case, it is just that they want it for nothing.

[Lostlily]

Lily, why is your husband standing by and watching you this unhappy and now in depression? If I were this unhappy, and as I said in my last post, I once was, my husband would not dream of watching me suffer. Of course it is tricky if one wants to go and one wants to stay, but surely if one person has been diagnosed with depression and is seriously unhappy, their needs are greater. I would not allow my husband to sink into depression either if it were that way round, his needs would come first. What is his position on your living situation, is he adamant he will not move?

 

Rgarding trying to make it work. I am curious as to what severe tax implications you could be referring to. A far as I am aware bothAustralia and UK only levy tax on profits and income, so how can it be severe? That is like refusing a very well paid job because there will be a lot of tax to pay in income.

 

It is more complicated than that. You see, I have a grown up daughter here who has now married an Aussie and has children. Both of my daughters were pressured (unfairly) by us to move out here, one of them went back to the UK due to a marriage break up and her new partner would NEVER consider leaving his family as they are very close. They now have a child too. But even if I did persuade my husband to go back, my daughter here would feel totally betrayed, I know that for fact.

 

We are now semi retired and have our income from investment properties and some in a SMSF. I wouldn't like anyone to think that I am putting money first, but our income from our SMSF is tax free, this would not be the case if we were in the UK. Also we would lose so much tax relief on our investment properties that we just couldn't afford to make it work and the final point, which some may see as totally trivial is that there are no death duties here, but if we were in the UK our worldwide assets would be subject to death duties.

 

That to me is not the most important thing, money is not my main interest, but breaking peoples hearts is.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Lostlily

[Lostlily]

My husband is sad for me, but he now has health issues that he feels are better taken care of here than in the UK, I have explained in a post a bit further below.

[Lostlily]

Hate to say it but I think by constantly returning to the UK you tend to feed the misery and renew it each time you go. I think this because I have 2 friends who do the same thing. Each time they return they have a period of deep depression until they re-adjust to our very different lifestyle. Perth - I couldn't stand living there but that is me. You must be aware that not all Australia is like that and not all Australians want McMansions and focus on material things. It is not wall to wall bogans though there are plenty around of course and when I see education cuts etc mooted by the government I think- yup, Australia doesn't value education - but I think this is not really the case, it is just that they want it for nothing.

 

I see your point, but I so miss my family there and vice versa. It is painful each year, but there is happiness alongside the sorrow.

[Guest Guest95262]

once you have an Australian driving licence, you are considered to have surrendered your UK drivers licence

 

Really? are you sure about that? can't see how or why that would happen, but if someone can prove me wrong please do as Id like to know

[Lostlily]

Really? are you sure about that? can't see how or why that would happen, but if someone can prove me wrong please do as Id like to know

I know this sounds unbelievable, but it is true. My husband even phoned the powers that be in Swansea and was told the same. You can probably google the information.

In fact the insurance companies in the UK have even changed their stance on unused garaged vehicles, you used to only have to insure them if they were on the road, but that is no longer the case. And as for the old "any driver" policies, they are invalid unless you have a current UK licence, which we do, but apparently they are now cancelled because we are not "resident". BS isn't it!

Edited May 2, 2014 by Lostlily

[Guest Guest95262]

i did google it and found only 1 thread on here where people said they did not have to surrender their uk licence

[Lostlily]

i did google it and found only 1 thread on here where people said they did not have to surrender their uk licence

Really? Well I will do a bit of googling, because we tried everything as we had offers right left and centre from friends to borrow their cars, but we just couldn't get the insurance. Will let u know how I get on.......

[flag of convenience]

No the weather gets boring as does the whinging, if that's why you joined to whine so be it as I say don't see the point myself, but if putting in to print your whinges helps the afflicted so be it, rather take actions though personally.

 

If your so bored by what you term why put yourself through the grief of reading threads on those returning to UK? Perth being so great in your book thought you'd have other diversions than reading those not in accord with that.

[Guest]

Really? Well I will do a bit of googling, because we tried everything as we had offers right left and centre from friends to borrow their cars, but we just couldn't get the insurance. Will let u know how I get on.......

 

I guess the UK licence may be technically invalid if it doesn't have your current UK residence on it. Migrants are not going to have a valid UK address or be normally resident in the UK, this is may be why you struggled to get insurance.

 

Can you not just go as named drivers on their insurance? You can do this on an Aus licence and then just pay any thing if it comes up, and pay the insurance bill for the duration of borrowing the car. Or look in to an international licence perhaps?

Edited May 2, 2014 by Guest

[Rupert]

It is more complicated than that. You see, I have a grown up daughter here who has now married an Aussie and has children. Both of my daughters were pressured (unfairly) by us to move out here, one of them went back to the UK due to a marriage break up and her new partner would NEVER consider leaving his family as they are very close. They now have a child too. But even if I did persuade my husband to go back, my daughter here would feel totally betrayed, I know that for fact.

 

We are now semi retired and have our income from investment properties and some in a SMSF. I wouldn't like anyone to think that I am putting money first, but our income from our SMSF is tax free, this would not be the case if we were in the UK. Also we would lose so much tax relief on our investment properties that we just couldn't afford to make it work and the final point, which some may see as totally trivial is that there are no death duties here, but if we were in the UK our worldwide assets would be subject to death duties.

 

That to me is not the most important thing, money is not my main interest, but breaking peoples hearts is.

 

Lily, your selflessness is admirable, but I do think you need to start putting your needs into the picture here, because they just dont seem to feature at all. Here are my thoughts on the matters you have raised, in no particular order.

 

Firstly your daughters are adults and they can look after themselves and they both presumably have the option of dual passports now, which most people will consider to be a gift. The choices they make about using those dual passports are all down to them now.

 

Still not entirely sure I understand the tax situation, unless you mean you are mortgaged to the hilt on these properties and are offsetting interest expense against another form of income? Anyway you don't need to tell us, but perhaps talk to a financial advisor about options, maybe sell and release yourself of these mortgages. But yes, maybe there is a call to be made here. I mentioned that I was once unhappy overseas, we were on a tax free environment and earning a very high salary between us which fell by more than three quarters upon our return but we never looked back. You cannot put a price on happiness.

 

Death duties, well you are dead so they don't hurt you to be frank. Your estate will get the first, I don't know £700k is it? tax free and then duty taken from the rest at a %, surely most beneficiaries would be happy with this and would not expect you to live out your life in depression for their benefit? Note that IHT depends on domicile too, not residence, and it is pretty hard to change domicile, don't assume 15 years away is enough, if you do stay then take steps to ensure your domicile is changed.

 

Your own health issues are important too, depression is a real health issue. So your husband feels his health issue can be better addressed in Australia, but yours can only be addressed in UK by sound of it.

[Lostlily]

Can i just comment on a couple of things here. Daughter married to an Aussie, now devorced and bound by Family Court orders that mean NO she can not move overseas or even to a different state or even a different suburb with out the approval of the ex unless she hands over the kids and walks away. In fact she cant even go on a holiday overseas with out requesting approval from the ex if she wants to take the kids O/S on a holiday.

To return and leave her here with small children is something we could never do. Second the exchange rate is such that to sell here would make it very difficult to buy a similar home in the UK, so we just have to make the best of it, but I sure understand your feelings.

 

I totally sympathise with you here Tina. What many many people are unaware of is the "Geneva Convention" which of course applies worldwide.

This is a typical scenario, nice young couple partner up and/or not get married. Think that the standards are slipping in the UK and decide to migrate to Australia or anywhere else for that matter.

They can see there are more opportunities (agreed) their kids would have a better life etc. BUT they are not thinking ahead! How many relationships break down 1 in 3? probably more I am not sure. But unfortunately this is just a fact of modern day life. Lets say e.g. that the guy is a bully or unfaithful, or vice versa. The relationship splits......and e.g. the one who has custody of the children feels totally lost and alone and wishes to return to the UK for family support.

Well as you have found out, this is not going to be possible if the other party does not agree.

I strongly feel that this should be pointed out in the vast quantities of literature which you have to trail through to get a visa to come here.

So very sad but so very common

[Rupert]

i did google it and found only 1 thread on here where people said they did not have to surrender their uk licence

 

People might not actually have the licence taken off them, but I think Lily is correct. When you are no longer resident in UK, the UK driving licence is void as I understand it.

[Lostlily]

People might not actually have the licence taken off them, but I think Lily is correct. When you are no longer resident in UK, the UK driving licence is void as I understand it.

Yes that is a fact, we still actually physically hold our UK driving licences, but they are worse than useless. Honestly I spent two weeks in the UK last year trying to sort out this very problem.

 

I have just copied this from British Expats.com

[TABLE=class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center]

[TR]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: alt1, bgcolor: #F9F9F9]yes you cant drive, so you are not exchanging your licence. i would not drive on your uk licence in the uk, as you are not resident so if you were to have an accident and they found out you were not a resident then they would not pay up etc. its a grey area really. but as a non resident your uk licence is not valid.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: alt2, bgcolor: #F9F9F9]

But Please! Do not take my word for this, get on to to the DVLA at Swansea to confirm the facts for yourselves.

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited May 2, 2014 by Lostlily

[flag of convenience]

Hate to say it but I think by constantly returning to the UK you tend to feed the misery and renew it each time you go. I think this because I have 2 friends who do the same thing. Each time they return they have a period of deep depression until they re-adjust to our very different lifestyle. Perth - I couldn't stand living there but that is me. You must be aware that not all Australia is like that and not all Australians want McMansions and focus on material things. It is not wall to wall bogans though there are plenty around of course and when I see education cuts etc mooted by the government I think- yup, Australia doesn't value education - but I think this is not really the case, it is just that they want it for nothing.

 

That is true and I know folk in the same situation as well. Not necessary Brit's but return to their countries every year, or in the case of the Argentinian every second year due to the high cost of flying there.

It sort of works in recharging the batteries for a time until the next episode of something akin to depression in at least some. A void found here by many seems to impact in different degrees of severity depending on culture raised.

[flag of convenience]

I totally sympathise with you here Tina. What many many people are unaware of is the "Geneva Convention" which of course applies worldwide.

This is a typical scenario, nice young couple partner up and/or not get married. Think that the standards are slipping in the UK and decide to migrate to Australia or anywhere else for that matter.

They can see there are more opportunities (agreed) their kids would have a better life etc. BUT they are not thinking ahead! How many relationships break down 1 in 3? probably more I am not sure. But unfortunately this is just a fact of modern day life. Lets say e.g. that the guy is a bully or unfaithful, or vice versa. The relationship splits......and e.g. the one who has custody of the children feels totally lost and alone and wishes to return to the UK for family support.

Well as you have found out, this is not going to be possible if the other party does not agree.

I strongly feel that this should be pointed out in the vast quantities of literature which you have to trail through to get a visa to come here.

So very sad but so very common

There will never be any literature out lining the high rate of marital separation among migrants in Australia. Remember only positives allowed in the spin around immigration. It is big business and those that go to and fro just add to that.