Vaccination through the eyes of the unvaccinated

[Petals]

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/life-style/nutrition-and-wellbeing/growing-up-unvaccinated-20140108-30gck.html#utm_source=FD&utm_medium=lifeandstylepuff&utm_campaign=vacc

 

Interesting article and confirms my belief that when thinking of things for our children we have to consider them as individuals not our possessions.

[newjez]

Not what I was expecting. Very good read. Thanks.

[Maruska]

It is a very interesting point of view. I myself am somewhere in the middle, I did vaccinate my children but if I had a choice ( without those vaccines they can`t attend school, daycare etc), I would be selective about which vaccines I wanted for them.

[Toodolou]

interesting read , i have a relative who doesnt believe in vaccinations and lives a 'alternative' lifestyle , their child caught measles recently in uk , very very poorly ended up in hospital for a while, still hasnt changed their view on vaccinations

[trabonita]

I have researched this extensively and have chosen 'selective' vaccines for my daughter. i'm not sure I would vaccinate my next child. It is such a difficult decision and I can see both sides.

[Petals]

Being born before polio vaccine and tb was prolific I can remember what it was like as a child seeing people with calipers from polio, dying of TB and then there was the diseases that we vaccinate for now. We do not vaccinate because these are minor illnesses, they are major illnesses and life threatening and if diphtheria for example raised its ugly head we would be in big trouble with the antibiotic resistance around today.

 

People have such faith in the medical system that they can fix things well they can't and if vaccination prevents children from dying then its the way to go.

 

My daughter for example is allergic to penicillin if I had not vaccinated her and she became very ill how would they treat her.

 

We have to not only consider what the vaccination may do in very rare cases, but what not having it may do as well. I could not live with myself if I did not vaccinate and my child was impaired or died through what I would look at as my negligence.

 

They are calling out for people who were at Chadstone Shopping Centre in Melbourne, why because I guy got measles and he spent three hours there over Christmas, years ago this never happened because children were vaccinated. Its not just our children we need to consider its other people's children too. What about the child with cancer whose immune system is impaired, is it ok for us to give them measle, mumps and chicken pox.

 

Rubella I had it at 18 and the time when I was most infectious was before the spots came out and I traveled each day on a crowded train to work. How many pregnant women was I near to.

 

We cannot be selfish. If smallpox ever came back it would be terrible.

 

I have lived in Africa and seen lepers and typhoid would break out and we raced down and got vaccinated.

 

We live in a crown cuckoo land in the west thinking everything can get fixed.

[Peach]

I have researched this extensively and have chosen 'selective' vaccines for my daughter. i'm not sure I would vaccinate my next child. It is such a difficult decision and I can see both sides.

 

What does the medical profession know after all. Presumably you don't take them to the Docs when they get sick either? Who knows the dangers of what they might prescribe.

[newjez]

It was interesting seeing the long queues for vaccines after the outbreaks last year. People are very anti vaccines until there is a chance their kids may get sick. Then they can't wait to get them jabbed.

[caramac]

Having nearly lost our daughter to Whooping Cough because she caught it before she could be vaccinated, I would vaccinate every time.

I would never want anyone to go through the month we went through on intensive care, and we were the lucky ones. The parents of the little boy in the next room were not so lucky. He was 9 weeks old.

[trabonita]

What does the medical profession know after all. Presumably you don't take them to the Docs when they get sick either? Who knows the dangers of what they might prescribe.

 

That's very judgemental Peach, are you an expert in Vaccinations? and yes I would take her to the doctors if she was ill, she's never been ill though. I respect all parents whether they vaccinate or not, it's their decision and I wouldn't judge anyone for it. Since you've brought it up however, yes doctors prescribe dangerous things all the time, every year different medications are taken off the market as 10 yrs down the line we find out about dangerous side effects. It's sensible to know all the facts before as a parent you blindly put something into your child's immune system.

[Peach]

That's very judgemental Peach, are you an expert in Vaccinations? and yes I would take her to the doctors if she was ill, she's never been ill though. I respect all parents whether they vaccinate or not, it's their decision and I wouldn't judge anyone for it. Since you've brought it up however, yes doctors prescribe dangerous things all the time, every year different medications are taken off the market as 10 yrs down the line we find out about dangerous side effects. It's sensible to know all the facts before as a parent you blindly put something into your child's immune system.

 

Are you an expert in vaccinations? Or medicines for that matter?

[trabonita]

Are you an expert in vaccinations? Or medicines for that matter?

 

I was asking if you were an expert because your comment was judgemental so I assumed you must know more about it than me? I am a midwife so no I'm not an expert but I do have access to good quality research for and against vaccinations and I do have several expert friends, one who is a GP who has done extensive research on vaccinations, who vaccinated her own children but however, after her research has said if she knew then what she knows now she would not have vaccinated them! I think I know enough to have made a decision I am happy with!

[Peach]

I was asking if you were an expert because your comment was judgemental so I assumed you must know more about it than me? I am a midwife so no I'm not an expert but I do have access to good quality research for and against vaccinations and I do have several expert friends, one who is a GP who has done extensive research on vaccinations, who vaccinated her own children but however, after her research has said if she knew then what she knows now she would not have vaccinated them! I think I know enough to have made a decision I am happy with!

 

Good for you..

[caramac]

That's very judgemental Peach, are you an expert in Vaccinations? and yes I would take her to the doctors if she was ill, she's never been ill though. I respect all parents whether they vaccinate or not, it's their decision and I wouldn't judge anyone for it. Since you've brought it up however, yes doctors prescribe dangerous things all the time, every year different medications are taken off the market as 10 yrs down the line we find out about dangerous side effects. It's sensible to know all the facts before as a parent you blindly put something into your child's immune system.

 

 

Of course you have a right to choose, but please, please make sure it's the facts you get and not pseudoscience. Also remember that, if your child is unlucky and ends up with a preventable disease that the medications the medical team will put into their bodies can be dangerous too.

My daughter, aged two weeks, was put on a ventilator, had lines put into almost every available vein (which hadn't collapsed), including into her head and was on a cocktail of narcotics and antibiotics for almost a month. She was tube fed and had her arms and legs tied down to stop her pulling her tubes out. She had burns on her chest from her CO2 monitor. She would scream in pain (silently) from the continual resiting of her iv line.No one could tell us if she would live for over two weeks and I wouldn't allow anyone to take photos of her until they said she would. When it was apparent that she would live we were told to prepare for the possibility of brain damage, lung damage, cardiac problems... It was 19 years ago, but when. I recall it, it seems like yesterday. She caught the disease because of the subsequently disproved vaccine scare.

I do believe in anyone's right to choose - my youngest daughter hasn't had the HPV vaccine yet because I wanted to wait until she was older, but please make sure you're as aware of the possible effects of deciding against protecting your child from preventable and devastating diseases.

[trabonita]

Of course you have a right to choose, but please, please make sure it's the facts you get and not pseudoscience. Also remember that, if your child is unlucky and ends up with a preventable disease that the medications the medical team will put into their bodies can be dangerous too.

My daughter, aged two weeks, was put on a ventilator, had lines put into almost every available vein (which hadn't collapsed), including into her head and was on a cocktail of narcotics and antibiotics for almost a month. She was tube fed and had her arms and legs tied down to stop her pulling her tubes out. She had burns on her chest from her CO2 monitor. She would scream in pain (silently) from the continual resiting of her iv line.No one could tell us if she would live for over two weeks and I wouldn't allow anyone to take photos of her until they said she would. When it was apparent that she would live we were told to prepare for the possibility of brain damage, lung damage, cardiac problems... It was 19 years ago, but when. I recall it, it seems like yesterday. She caught the disease because of the subsequently disproved vaccine scare.

I do believe in anyone's right to choose - my youngest daughter hasn't had the HPV vaccine yet because I wanted to wait until she was older, but please make sure you're as aware of the possible effects of deciding against protecting your child from preventable and devastating diseases.

 

That sounds so horrible and I really feel for you, no parent should ever have to see their child go through that.

[caramac]

You're absolutely right, but it's what parents in third world countries have to see all the time for want of inexpensive prevention. We're spoilt in the west now - we rarely see the effects of real killer diseases anymore. We are so very lucky to have a choice.

[Petals]

This thread is about a person who had no choice and her parents chose not to vaccinate and that is the issue I believe.

 

Also reading the posts I note that people do not get it, its not about our families, its about the whole population. Vaccination is never done lightly by governments, they don't just think oh year lets give them a shot and see what happens. Its done for the good of every child and to get rid of these diseases. Ok they may be replaced by another one but its important not to bring them back

 

By not vaccinating we are bringing them back.

 

So when you have that little baby a week old out in the pram and someone nearby is coughing away with whooping cough the child has a chance of getting it and not surviving it.

 

Its so strange that people are supposed to be more educated now than ever and even though they have education they cannot see that we only have the health outcomes we have now due to vaccination and other treatments.

 

Do not argue about it, think very seriously about it. Its too late once the genie is out of the lamp.

[caramac]

This thread is about a person who had no choice and her parents chose not to vaccinate and that is the issue I believe.

 

Also reading the posts I note that people do not get it, its not about our families, its about the whole population. Vaccination is never done lightly by governments, they don't just think oh year lets give them a shot and see what happens. Its done for the good of every child and to get rid of these diseases. Ok they may be replaced by another one but its important not to bring them back

 

By not vaccinating we are bringing them back.

 

So when you have that little baby a week old out in the pram and someone nearby is coughing away with whooping cough the child has a chance of getting it and not surviving it.

 

Its so strange that people are supposed to be more educated now than ever and even though they have education they cannot see that we only have the health outcomes we have now due to vaccination and other treatments.

 

Do not argue about it, think very seriously about it. Its too late once the genie is out of the lamp.

 

Exactly. Herd immunity protects those who cannot be immunised for whatever reason. Too young, compromised immune systems, allergy to a component of the vaccine....

My daughter (and I) caught it from my husband, who had been immunised as a child, but his (and my) immunity had obviously waned. We're convinced he caught it from a patient who coughed all over him when he went to see them!

[TheEscapePlan]

Having nearly lost our daughter to Whooping Cough because she caught it before she could be vaccinated, I would vaccinate every time.

I would never want anyone to go through the month we went through on intensive care, and we were the lucky ones. The parents of the little boy in the next room were not so lucky. He was 9 weeks old.

 

So sorry for your loss. Very strong message to the anti vaccine people though.

[Guest littlesarah]

I am a midwife so no I'm not an expert but I do have access to good quality research for and against vaccinations and I do have several expert friends, one who is a GP who has done extensive research on vaccinations, who vaccinated her own children but however, after her research has said if she knew then what she knows now she would not have vaccinated them!

 

When you say that your GP friend 'has done extensive research on vaccinations', do you mean 'doing research' in the sense of conducting trials and/or other types of experimentation, or at least conducting a systematic review, and having such material published in a peer-reviewed journal? If not, then what your friend did was not, in actual fact, research. Confirmation bias is a well-known phenomenon, and is one of the reasons why few journals publish reviews of any sort, and most will not even consider a review that isn't systematic and meets minimum methodological criteria. Just because someone is a medical practitioner of any sort, doesn't make them an expert researcher (just as an experienced academic isn't necessarily any good at all in clinical practice), and no person is beyond bias (hence the need for research methodology that deliberately sets out to minimise those factors that may confound the results). Given that so many research papers are behind paywalls (which is something that irks me no end), it is hard even for a health professional to access high-quality evidence; but one should not form any conclusions without having performed a thorough literature search, or at the least read a systematic review.

 

From what I have read, and conversations I've had with colleagues who are involved in the field, the body of evidence suggests that the likely benefit to individuals and the community far outweighs the possible risks associated with immunisation. Many of the alleged 'side effects' are not even directly attributable to immunisation, and the probability of coincidence in observation, rather than causality is offer conveniently overlooked by those who are anti-vaccination.

[Sammy1]

My children both had whooping cough a couple of years ago. They had both been vaccinated. If they had not been vaccinated it would have been a lot more serious.

It is irresponsible that so many children are not vaccinated now, that is why we are seeing a resurgence of diseases that had disappeared in developed countries.

[fairystar32]

Most of the people who catch and pass the measles and other diseases are adults or older and bring it from trips overseas, THEY should be vaccinated again as a booster....

 

Unless every single adult goes gets boosters for their shots, or tested to see if immune, they cannot blame unvaccinated children as themselves are probably no longer covered either and spreading disease. I have currently stopped due to reactions and will carry on seeking information and advice. My son was in the hospital recently and the doctor said we do not know everything and how all kids will reacts and tried to AVOID having him get the shot by talking to specalists. Its isnt as cut and dry as you think. I do beleive vaccines have saved many lifes however I also think they have damaged many too.

[caramac]

So sorry for your loss. Very strong message to the anti vaccine people though.

 

 

We were lucky, she survived, but the little boy next door to her in itu didn't. :sad:

[caramac]

Most of the people who catch and pass the measles and other diseases are adults or older and bring it from trips overseas, THEY should be vaccinated again as a booster....

 

Unless every single adult goes gets boosters for their shots, or tested to see if immune, they cannot blame unvaccinated children as themselves are probably no longer covered either and spreading disease. I have currently stopped due to reactions and will carry on seeking information and advice. My son was in the hospital recently and the doctor said we do not know everything and how all kids will reacts and tried to AVOID having him get the shot by talking to specalists. Its isnt as cut and dry as you think. I do beleive vaccines have saved many lifes however I also think they have damaged many too.

 

 

The immunisation schedules tend not to cover adults, unless you're talking about tetanus, diphtheria, polio, hep B.. unless there's an outbreak of disease such as the current whooping cough one which means that pregnant women are being offered jabs. Also, most older adults will have been exposed to what were common childhood diseases - measles, mumps, rubella, so will be immune. Women are also screened for rubella immunity when pregnant. If they're not covered they can be immunised after giving birth, but they're at risk while pregnant (another reason for adequate herd immunity). It's better that they're checked before becoming pregnant so they and the baby can be protected if necessary.

Every country has a slightly different schedule depending on what might be a problem there, and the money available for vaccines, so not everything will be covered, so, in a world where we all travel more than ever, it's not realistic to expect every adult to be covered for everything. For example, the UK stopped it's bcg programme because it was deemed unnecessary, but it has started again in London because cases of TB are rising due to the number of people coming from countries where it's a problem.

 

Obviously if your son has had a reaction to a vaccine then of course he shouldn't have any more for the time being, but it's important for his protection that the majority of other children are covered.

My friend's daughter couldn't have the MMR when she was little due to an allergy to egg. However, as she grew she became tolerant to egg and had the immunisation in hospital, in case of a reaction, when she was 16 with no problem.

[fairystar32]

Whooping cough is being spread by adults.

All adults should be reimmunised, infact there are many reports of late saying it is not as effective any longer.

Measles cases have been in teenagers and young adults, who are often immunised and their vaccine has waned.

 

We have currently said we are holding off until he is 10, then he will be caught up with the DTP and the MMR which he hasnt had yet.

I am for others chosing though, vaccine reactions/damage are very real, payouts are real and vaccine failure is also real.

 

The two cases of whooping cough in our school lately were both in sisters, both vaccinated.

 

 

 

The immunisation schedules tend not to cover adults, unless you're talking about tetanus, diphtheria, polio, hep B.. unless there's an outbreak of disease such as the current whooping cough one which means that pregnant women are being offered jabs. Also, most older adults will have been exposed to what were common childhood diseases - measles, mumps, rubella, so will be immune. Women are also screened for rubella immunity when pregnant. If they're not covered they can be immunised after giving birth, but they're at risk while pregnant (another reason for adequate herd immunity). It's better that they're checked before becoming pregnant so they and the baby can be protected if necessary.

Every country has a slightly different schedule depending on what might be a problem there, and the money available for vaccines, so not everything will be covered, so, in a world where we all travel more than ever, it's not realistic to expect every adult to be covered for everything. For example, the UK stopped it's bcg programme because it was deemed unnecessary, but it has started again in London because cases of TB are rising due to the number of people coming from countries where it's a problem.

 

Obviously if your son has had a reaction to a vaccine then of course he shouldn't have any more for the time being, but it's important for his protection that the majority of other children are covered.

My friend's daughter couldn't have the MMR when she was little due to an allergy to egg. However, as she grew she became tolerant to egg and had the immunisation in hospital, in case of a reaction, when she was 16 with no problem.