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Pay rise to be scrapped for nurses.


Perthbum

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We have and we are getting on with it, we can't do anything about it, like I said before the MPs are getting a 10% pay rise and the high earners have had a 5% reduction in their tax rate. Doesn't seem fair to me, but like I say, whatt can anyone do?

 

High earners saw their marginal tax rate rise by 25% from 40% to 50%. It is currently "only" 45%. Hard to see this as any kind of giveaway; more like an excuse for a "getaway."

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Public sector pay and benefits need to be addressed. Public sector can practically retire at 50 on their gold plated pensions whilst everyone else has to work until they are nearly 70 and even then won't have anything like the pension arrangements of a public sector worker. Private sector workers also don't get pay rises when their employer can't afford it, it is just the same.

 

My sister is a nurse of 20 years standing, she gloats about her employment arrangements, her leave entitlements, her pension. Her gloating is quite annoying to be honest, but at least she doesn't constantly whinge about the profession she freely chose to enter like many nurses seem to.

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there is not the money to pay the public sector workers more hoff, most private sector workers are in the same boat or have even had to take wage cuts, you will get rises eventually but for now when the country is in the **** you should just get on like the rest of us have to.

 

...that's the rest of you...except for MPs of course.

 

And don't forget that it was MPs who overspent during times of plenty, MPs who spent money bailing out bankers so they could pay themselves bonuses, MPs who often get board positions with big business when they cease being MPs...and MPs who are now addicted to "austerity" which is killing the economy.

 

Too bad MPs aren't paid by results, isn't it?

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Public sector pay and benefits need to be addressed. Public sector can practically retire at 50 on their gold plated pensions whilst everyone else has to work until they are nearly 70 and even then won't have anything like the pension arrangements of a public sector worker. Private sector workers also don't get pay rises when their employer can't afford it, it is just the same.

 

My sister is a nurse of 20 years standing, she gloats about her employment arrangements, her leave entitlements, her pension. Her gloating is quite annoying to be honest, but at least she doesn't constantly whinge about the profession she freely chose to enter like many nurses seem to.

 

Come off it!

The option to retire at 50 was withdrawn by the last government, and I see no clamour to bring it back.

Not sure the phrase "can practically retire" stands any kind of intellectual scrutiny, you either are, or are not.

I don't think there is anything wrong with public sector pensions, we should be focussing instead on getting better pensions for everyone else. I suppose it depends on if you are driven by envy, (I can't have it so they can't / shouldn't), or ambition, (let's improve everyone's pension).

The grown ups recognise the issue has arisen because people live longer, so draw their pensions for longer too.

Oh and finally, when you retire early, your pension is reduced, at 50 it was 75% of your earned pension for life.

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Public sector pay and benefits need to be addressed. Public sector can practically retire at 50 on their gold plated pensions whilst everyone else has to work until they are nearly 70 and even then won't have anything like the pension arrangements of a public sector worker. Private sector workers also don't get pay rises when their employer can't afford it, it is just the same.

 

My sister is a nurse of 20 years standing, she gloats about her employment arrangements, her leave entitlements, her pension. Her gloating is quite annoying to be honest, but at least she doesn't constantly whinge about the profession she freely chose to enter like many nurses seem to.

 

 

Public sector waste needs addressing more urgently. Millions lost on useless computer programmes would be a good start. I have to use one system to access work and training online. This system isn't compatible with any other and is rarely running properly which means I can't do what I'm meant to. The physio dept at our hospital has 8 computers, all on different systems which don't 'talk' to each other.

My job in a GP surgery is to summarise all the new patient's medical records. It's supposed to be a move to paperless practice, but after doing this job for nearly ten years, it's moving in the opposite direction. At one time a consultant from secondary care would send a letter to the GP explaining what diagnosis and treatment a person had had on a page or two of A5. Now it's endless computer print out. Last week I was doing a set of notes. The man is 96, so there were a few years to go through. It was a fairly uncomplicated job until we got to 2004 when I had to wade through 345 pages of A4. Many of those pages were duplicates of each other and 27 of them were a record of every prescription he's had for paracetamol. That's just one example, but it's a regular occurrence. I've tried bringing it up with managers because it's not cost effective, but no one wants to take it on. Having all the important information at the click of a mouse is necessary, but there has to be a more efficient way of transferring that information when a patient moves to another practice.

 

My oh has worked out that his trust pays him for 3 days a month to sit in his car because there's no streamlining of his appointments and his base is so far away from his patients. He's pointed this out to his managers several times and they've said they'll move him, but almost two years down the track nothing's changed. He will also be told about training days or teaching he's doing. He's told where and at what time he has to be in certain place. He turns up, having found someone to cover his clinical work, only to find it's been cancelled or moved to another location and no one has thought to tell him. Often they are at opposite ends of the county.

 

Very few people moan on their own behalf, but when they see the amount of waste it's galling to be blamed for something which isn't your fault. My oh was interviewed for a lead job (which carries no extra salary, just more ability to make changes) and was asked how he would make 30% savings. He told them it would be easy (he's done it before) and no one would lose their job.

 

It's easy and popular to blame the workers for being greedy, but I don't personally know anyone who moans about their salary. My oh took a cut to come back to the UK, not only from his Aus salary, but also from what he was earning here before. We don't moan about it, we just get on with it. He could earn way more in the private sector, but believes strongly in the NHS and that his skills should be available to all regardless of their ability to pay and that's how most of our friends think too. They just don't want to be taken advantage of, and that's less to do with pay than the erosion of service to the detriment of good patient care which is what they all strive for. That's why so many want out now - they can't do the job they were trained to do.

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Public sector pay and benefits need to be addressed. Public sector can practically retire at 50 on their gold plated pensions whilst everyone else has to work until they are nearly 70 and even then won't have anything like the pension arrangements of a public sector worker. Private sector workers also don't get pay rises when their employer can't afford it, it is just the same.

 

My sister is a nurse of 20 years standing, she gloats about her employment arrangements, her leave entitlements, her pension. Her gloating is quite annoying to be honest, but at least she doesn't constantly whinge about the profession she freely chose to enter like many nurses seem to.

 

 

I dont think they whinge tbh! And I know a lot of nurses? On the whole, they get on with the job and if they 'whinge' or have a moan then they are entitled to. We all chose to be nurses as others choose their professions doesn't mean we can't complain occasionally. It's a tough profession today but has a lot of rewards in others ways that are not financial.

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Public sector workers have had it good for years....plenty of years....fantastic pensions....working conditions.....sick pay and holiday pay and a decent wage....I dont remember hearing any of them offering to pay back into the system whilst they were reaping the benefits from their gold plated contracts.....the current situation is unfortunate with the cap on wages for public sector workers....but thats life at the moment so get on with it and make the most of it....your lucky you have a job with decent working conditions.....Im sure when this down turn has finally finished your unions will all be clambering for your payrises and for them to all be back dated to cover your recenet loses.....I was chatting to a customer a couple of weeks back....she works for HMRC....been in the job for 25 years....she carried out inspections of large businesses.....she said the lower end workers had been cut (admin)....management had pretty much stayed the same....but said that even with the pay cap and current situation she had it good and was in no way bitter....she was still sitting on a great final pension and pay off....at the age of 55/60

 

MP's earn 66k....I think their job title and positions warrant a larger salary.....we want to attract the best people into those positions and 66k is not going to do that when you consider a head teacher earns 78k.....senior civil servant 88k.....GP 89k.....council chief ecxecutive 134k.....they do get a lot of perks but the talk is that their salary will rise but they will lose some of their benefits, ie second home benefits and various other perks.....its difficult for the average person to comprehend them getting a huge payrise and I agree its not good timimg.....but I believe that 66k is not a lot of money for someone in their position....on the flip side your Union leaders earn a kings ransom in comparison to your average MP.....they earn well over 100k with some of them on a similar wage to the PM!......whose more important.....union leader or PM?

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I agree that nurses in the uk get good holidays, sick pay etc. I knew nurses that would play the system and be off sick for months and get paid for it even though their 'sickness' was questionable? These were a minority, in my experience though. We don't get the same sickness allowance in oz and the holidays are nowhere near what they were in the uk. It works though tbh! But the original statement of the post talked about nurses. And I can only speak for nurses and not anyone else that works in the public sector? And I still maintain that they deserve a decent pay rise! Just my opinion.

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I know a couple of senior MPs and what they really get is way in excess of £66k. Not to mention their income from talks, books etc when they retire, usually in their 50s. I don't think they should be motivated to do the job by money anymore than any other public sector worker - many of them have a second income stream anyway.

I also know plenty of people who have to live away from their families during the working week. They don't get a second house allowance, or travel, or the right to have their families with them(paid for) when they have to attend a function away from home at the weekends. I don't think they have it so bad really.

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I know a couple of senior MPs and what they really get is way in excess of £66k. Not to mention their income from talks, books etc when they retire, usually in their 50s. I don't think they should be motivated to do the job by money anymore than any other public sector worker - many of them have a second income stream anyway.

I also know plenty of people who have to live away from their families during the working week. They don't get a second house allowance, or travel, or the right to have their families with them(paid for) when they have to attend a function away from home at the weekends. I don't think they have it so bad really.

 

Plus throwing more money at MP's doesn't guarantee a better quality MP,we've seen that in business over and over,an MP should care about the community they represent,66k plus all the perks should be enuf

Re the average public sector workers pension i thought the norm was about 5 to 8 k a year?if it is its not a lot,i hope they get what they can,there's a lot of unwarranted jealousy towards fellow workers shown on here every time the public sector is mentioned,the workers/masses have and always will be the same,turn on their own instead of those at the top who continue to get richer while the masses take the hit

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I agree that nurses in the uk get good holidays, sick pay etc. I knew nurses that would play the system and be off sick for months and get paid for it even though their 'sickness' was questionable? These were a minority, in my experience though. We don't get the same sickness allowance in oz and the holidays are nowhere near what they were in the uk. It works though tbh! But the original statement of the post talked about nurses. And I can only speak for nurses and not anyone else that works in the public sector? And I still maintain that they deserve a decent pay rise! Just my opinion.

 

I agree with you....all of us deserve a decent salary and regular payrises....however the current situation is we are coming off the back of the worst economic down turn in decades....we have a huge debt that has to be paid and we are currently doing this so unfortunately there is no money in the pot and someone has to pay.....I am pretty sure.....in fact I would put my mortgage on it that in 5 to 10 years time wages would have recovered and payrises will resume....your unions will insist that wages are returned to current levels and your net losses would have been returned....and some.

 

To me I see a group of people that have had it pretty good for decades with regular payrises and excellent working conditions.....things are a little tough at the moment and they need to be patient.....Public sector workers do a great job and the country needs them.....spare a thought for your private sector workers that are struggling....have families to feed and are thinking about their future prospects without a bumper pension pot for their retirement.

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Well it's quite simple.. Leave your job for a better paid one.. I'm sure there's millions if people who had cuts to pay packets over the last 5 years.. Count yourself lucky your not one of them

 

Trouble is, society's priorities and pay are completely messed up. Nurses are essential to our health yet are paid a pittance while bankers get salaries and bonuses that could practically fund a hospital for contributing nothing...absolutely nothing...to society. Simply moving money around for profit should NOT be rewarded as it is. Tax the hell out of merchant banks and use the money to pay for a proper health service.

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Plus throwing more money at MP's doesn't guarantee a better quality MP,we've seen that in business over and over,an MP should care about the community they represent,66k plus all the perks should be enuf

Re the average public sector workers pension i thought the norm was about 5 to 8 k a year?if it is its not a lot,i hope they get what they can,there's a lot of unwarranted jealousy towards fellow workers shown on here every time the public sector is mentioned,the workers/masses have and always will be the same,turn on their own instead of those at the top who continue to get richer while the masses take the hit

 

 

Yes, it's shame people can't see that. Get the masses to divide - employed v unemployed, public v private, elderly v the young, and you can divert attention away from fiddling expenses, throwing away money on the West Coast train bid, HS2, the Olympic park, bankers bonuses etc etc. Better to have the proles fighting between themselves..

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Plus throwing more money at MP's doesn't guarantee a better quality MP,we've seen that in business over and over,an MP should care about the community they represent,66k plus all the perks should be enuf

Re the average public sector workers pension i thought the norm was about 5 to 8 k a year?if it is its not a lot,i hope they get what they can,there's a lot of unwarranted jealousy towards fellow workers shown on here every time the public sector is mentioned,the workers/masses have and always will be the same,turn on their own instead of those at the top who continue to get richer while the masses take the hit

 

 

Tie any MP pay rise to that received by the rest of the public service. I'd love an MP to give me one reason why that wouldn't be the fairest way to do it.

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Yes, it's shame people can't see that. Get the masses to divide - employed v unemployed, public v private, elderly v the young, and you can divert attention away from fiddling expenses, throwing away money on the West Coast train bid, HS2, the Olympic park, bankers bonuses etc etc. Better to have the proles fighting between themselves..

 

Ive said it numerous times,The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist should be part of the school curriculum,then people might see the big picture and how conditioned they are

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Anyhow.....im off....im looking out the window and being greeted by rays of warm sunshine blazing a path through blue sky and patches of wispy white cloud....another cracking day with temps in the low 20's forecast and the rest of the week pretty similar....."will this summer never end":shocked:

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I agree with you....all of us deserve a decent salary and regular payrises....however the current situation is we are coming off the back of the worst economic down turn in decades....we have a huge debt that has to be paid and we are currently doing this so unfortunately there is no money in the pot and someone has to pay.....I am pretty sure.....in fact I would put my mortgage on it that in 5 to 10 years time wages would have recovered and payrises will resume....your unions will insist that wages are returned to current levels and your net losses would have been returned....and some.

 

To me I see a group of people that have had it pretty good for decades with regular payrises and excellent working conditions.....things are a little tough at the moment and they need to be patient.....Public sector workers do a great job and the country needs them.....spare a thought for your private sector workers that are struggling....have families to feed and are thinking about their future prospects without a bumper pension pot for their retirement.

 

 

Everyone deserves a decent salary and pension (after all, a decent pension for all means that it won't fall to the few to subsidise benefits for those who haven't any provision). What we shouldn't let happen is for any govt to cloud the issues by setting one group of workers against another.

My oh will get a decent pension, but people like my sister, who works one to one with dyslexic children many of whom have English as an additional language, is looking at around £3k a year when/if she retires. Her salary used to be £14k pa, but she's been 'restructured' downwards and now earns just under £12k, fulltime. She feels completely undervalued now, especially as she used to be one of three doing the same job in a school with high need and is now the only one. She feels frustrated, not only for herself, but for the children she's trying to help. Their funding has been cut, so there are no resources for her to use and the hope they used to have of getting these children 5 GCSEs, and a decent, useful future, has been diminished.

She also works most evenings and weekends in a supermarket to make ends meet because trying to live on under £12k a year is impossible. She'd love to retrain for something else, but because she's earning she gets no help with course fees, so she's stuck.

I don't believe she's greedy, nor has good working conditions. There are many more like her working in public service than higher up the chain. Why should she, and others like her (and the children they help) pay for a mess they had no hand in creating? It's because they're an easy target, like the disabled, ill and children.

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In the meantime to compare to Caramacs sister,we have the heads of the BBC doling out double the pay offs and pensions than they needed to ,to execs who are leaving,some after a very short period,extra payments in the hundreds of thousands btw,and with our money,but hey ho eh

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Trouble is, society's priorities and pay are completely messed up. Nurses are essential to our health yet are paid a pittance while bankers get salaries and bonuses that could practically fund a hospital for contributing nothing...absolutely nothing...to society. Simply moving money around for profit should NOT be rewarded as it is. Tax the hell out of merchant banks and use the money to pay for a proper health service.

 

Great Idea. They will all move offshore, we will get no taxes off them then, so we will have to tax the rest of us even more! doh.

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Great Idea. They will all move offshore, we will get no taxes off them then, so we will have to tax the rest of us even more! doh.

 

Got any links to show they'd all move offshore?because most of the surveys ive seen show they wouldnt,but if you want to let them do what they want because of the veiled threats,thats your choice,its blackmail,nothing less,give us loads of tax breaks etc or we're off

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I think its about priorities. Education, Health and people who put their lives at risk every day for this country should be rewarded within the public system. I have no qualms over how much people get paid within the private system as it is usually if they do well for their company they will be rewarded as such, however no matter how hard I work or how much extra work is expected of me when I am qualified my pay will stay the same. Patient care will be reduced, not because of my mood but because of the cuts that affect them, the wards that are closing/merging to reduce overheads etc. This thread is about nurses and the 1% pay rise. 1% isn't even as was stated a pay rise but it would have helped nurses feel more valued and in the grand scheme of things isn't a huge ask of nurses. Nurses do so much more than they used to do, responsibilities have changed. I wish MPs would just see how hard they work in situations which are sometimes impossible.

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Got any links to show they'd all move offshore?because most of the surveys ive seen show they wouldnt,but if you want to let them do what they want because of the veiled threats,thats your choice,its blackmail,nothing less,give us loads of tax breaks etc or we're off

 

 

Got out any links to say they wouldn't? I think I may have had this discussion before with you, it is possible to spend a great deal of time researching this, but probably the only way you will ever find out the truth is to either write to your local MP, or even the head office of HMRC. Ask them about the early 1980s. Before Mrs T cut the top rate of tax to 40%, the top 10% of earners contributed 10% of the total tax take. After she cut it to 40% their overall contribution rose! meaning the rest of us had to pay less.

The trouble with high taxes is that it is worth avoiding them. You don't have to be a nasty, fat cat capitalist to do it either.

Do some research yourself. The taxman used to sample the rubbish after every Premier League match, in essence they would look at empty cigarette packets. It was interesting that in 1999, when Easyjet started going out of Liverpool, the percentage of Spanish bought UK brands rocketed at Liverpool, and Everton..............or you could ask any newsagent, sales of rolling tobacco have gone through the floor, but not Rizla papers. Ask yourself why?

It is cheap politics to base your solution to the worlds ills on a policy of increasing taxes on "them", the undeserving. Depending on your own political belief or prejudice "they" may be welfare scrounges, the sick, the rich, the bankers, MPs, foreigners, civil servants but not nurses or teachers, yada, yada, yada.

I will always shoot at people who claim only confiscating 40% or 45% of someone's hard earned is a "break." It's nothing of the sort, and people will weigh up whether it is worth the carrot.

Having said all that, I entirely agree with the sentiments behind your posts, and share your deep sense of frustration that the poor, the elderly, the sick and the disabled are seeing their living conditions worsen. Something must be done.

I would start by scrapping the tax levied on low paid jobs called "National Insurance." This is a stonking 12% on the first £42,000 a year or so, then it drops to 2%. It really needs to be binned, but OK, I accept it is to "pay your stamp," and so it has some attraction to the misty eyed idealogical left, it is never mentioned, never questioned, and 12% of your hard earned just grabbed from the lowest paid workers. Just abolish it, but if you have to keep it, then why not just charge the 12% full stop! with no ceiling! and cut the top tax rate to 30% to make up for it...................in fact why not just have one rate of income tax at about 25%, and raise the tax free ceiling to say £25,0000.

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2 of my mates are investment bankers in London.. They pay massive amounts of taxes on their earnings. We all had a choice of what career to take, they took banking and made a killing. You could of done the same.. Tax them to much and their relocate to Switzerland . I'm not at all jealous of them.. Good luck to em ..

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Got out any links to say they wouldn't? I think I may have had this discussion before with you, it is possible to spend a great deal of time researching this, but probably the only way you will ever find out the truth is to either write to your local MP, or even the head office of HMRC. Ask them about the early 1980s. Before Mrs T cut the top rate of tax to 40%, the top 10% of earners contributed 10% of the total tax take. After she cut it to 40% their overall contribution rose! meaning the rest of us had to pay less.

The trouble with high taxes is that it is worth avoiding them. You don't have to be a nasty, fat cat capitalist to do it either.

 

 

#Number one,i dont know that the "overall" tax take in the early 80's increased because she cut the top rate,that the top 10% paid more doesnt mean that overall the taxes increased does it?

No,i dont need any links,"you" stated it as though fact,the onus isnt on me to prove it is it now?

You seem to have a stereotypical view on my thoughts on the rich/top earners,i dont begrudge them earning millions,doesnt bother me one jot,what does bother me is the tax avoidance,whether its legal or not,remember Lord Vestey?£10 tax on millions in profits,same with loads of big businesses now isnt it?

They dont need apologists like you,they already have plenty of PR in place.#

 

 

 

 

 

Do some research yourself. The taxman used to sample the rubbish after every Premier League match, in essence they would look at empty cigarette packets. It was interesting that in 1999, when Easyjet started going out of Liverpool, the percentage of Spanish bought UK brands rocketed at Liverpool, and Everton..............or you could ask any newsagent, sales of rolling tobacco have gone through the floor, but not Rizla papers. Ask yourself why?

It is cheap politics to base your solution to the worlds ills on a policy of increasing taxes on "them", the undeserving. Depending on your own political belief or prejudice "they" may be welfare scrounges, the sick, the rich, the bankers, MPs, foreigners, civil servants but not nurses or teachers, yada, yada, yada.

I will always shoot at people who claim only confiscating 40% or 45% of someone's hard earned is a "break." It's nothing of the sort, and people will weigh up whether it is worth the carrot.

Having said all that, I entirely agree with the sentiments behind your posts, and share your deep sense of frustration that the poor, the elderly, the sick and the disabled are seeing their living conditions worsen. Something must be done. I'll do another post because:-

a) This one is getting long and boring.

b) I need the bathroom.

c) I need another cold one.

 

Again,i was going the match from 73 to 2007,i cant recall the kop being littered with spanish bifter packets,but i dare say some would buy them if cheaper,yes it is long,could have made it a lot shorter,it is sunday after all

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