Standard of job applications!

[Victoriagal]

We have just finished recruiting a couple of staff for the new business and I know that we were not hiring CEO's but sometimes I have to wonder at what guys are being taught in respect of applying for jobs. It is honestly no wonder some people struggle to find work. I'm not expecting perfect CV's and stunning candidates, we are not looking for the brains of Britain (or wherever) but some basics I think would help. Just my thoughts:-

 

1. If an advert asks for a cover letter and resume, then do just that. Don't phone, email or text first. That's for follow up.

 

2. "Hi how r u?" Does not count as a covering letter!

 

3. If an advert asks for a minimum two years experience - then if you don't have it don't apply, because chances are others will. Saying in your cover letter that "actually, I have no experience in this area but I'm a fast learner" will not help either.

 

4. Read the advert. Applying for a Monday to Friday position and saying that you are only available for weekends is wasting everyone's time.

 

5. Get a sensible email address. Your mates might think its cute that you go by trixiepixiefairydoll. Your future employer probably not so much. You've left school and are looking for work, a modicum of professionalism might help your case and they might consider taking your application seriously.

 

6. If you do manage to string enough words together to get to interview - turn up on time!

 

And I'm not even going to mention putting a CV together but if you haven't got a clue, ask someone, find a template online or even invest in getting a professional to put one together at least once you have it done once you just need to add to it.

 

Any HR guys out there looking for work I reckon there has to be a gap in the market for preparing young people for the job market. Maybe there would be less young folks out of work if they had a clue how to get to interview. The overall standard of applications was woeful and to be fair not totally confined to the younger ones but standards did tend to improve with age.

[Guest genorm]

WOW - Great post.

 

I actually spend more time correcting CV's than I do on any other activity.

 

It's amazing what some people throw at you that passes as an application. You would think they would spend hours on it, bearing in mind, it's the one document that counts towards life-changing opportunity.

 

​Still, we live in hope

[Guest guest76088]

I don't agree with a number of your points:

 

Ref 1. An initial contact prior to application can allow you to obtain additional information to which other applicant may not be aware, and tailor your application to put you on the inside-track. The fact you have picked up the phone shows initiative and makes you memorable.

 

Ref 3. Many job adverts these day are packed to the brim with nice-to-haves: a combination of skills and experience almost impossible to be found in the same person. I have seen adverts expecting ten years experience in a technology that is only five years old. So although you may have 2 years experience in direct widget sales, you may have 20 years experience in widget customer support. Your call?

 

BigD

 

We have just finished recruiting a couple of staff for the new business and I know that we were not hiring CEO's but sometimes I have to wonder at what guys are being taught in respect of applying for jobs. It is honestly no wonder some people struggle to find work. I'm not expecting perfect CV's and stunning candidates, we are not looking for the brains of Britain (or wherever) but some basics I think would help. Just my thoughts:-

 

1. If an advert asks for a cover letter and resume, then do just that. Don't phone, email or text first. That's for follow up.

 

2. "Hi how r u?" Does not count as a covering letter!

 

3. If an advert asks for a minimum two years experience - then if you don't have it don't apply, because chances are others will. Saying in your cover letter that "actually, I have no experience in this area but I'm a fast learner" will not help either.

 

4. Read the advert. Applying for a Monday to Friday position and saying that you are only available for weekends is wasting everyone's time.

 

5. Get a sensible email address. Your mates might think its cute that you go by trixiepixiefairydoll. Your future employer probably not so much. You've left school and are looking for work, a modicum of professionalism might help your case and they might consider taking your application seriously.

 

6. If you do manage to string enough words together to get to interview - turn up on time!

 

And I'm not even going to mention putting a CV together but if you haven't got a clue, ask someone, find a template online or even invest in getting a professional to put one together at least once you have it done once you just need to add to it.

 

Any HR guys out there looking for work I reckon there has to be a gap in the market for preparing young people for the job market. Maybe there would be less young folks out of work if they had a clue how to get to interview. The overall standard of applications was woeful and to be fair not totally confined to the younger ones but standards did tend to improve with age.

[Tickled Pink]

I was thinking along similar lines to BigD regarding point one. I have often contacted prior to putting in the application, asked more about the role, who/what they are looking for. This has always led me to have a much more in depth conversation with the person, and got me short listed or even the job. In the case where I didn't get the position it led to other avenues as they were still interested in working with me.

 

However, it may be worth noting I only do this with jobs I genuinely meet all criteria for...

[Rupert]

I don't agree with point 3 in particular. Some years ago I saw a job advert that I thought would interest my OH, but it asked for 3 years experience at a time they only had 6 months experience in that particular field. My OH was very hesitant about applying because of this, however I said it was worth a shot. And indeed it was, it was the stepping stone to a career that has gone from strength to strength since that first successful application.

[Tickled Pink]

I certainly think there are no hard and fast rules. If someone has shown initiative to call me up, sounds knowledgeable, interested and is polite, even if they werent quite right I'd be respectful enough to give 10 minutes of my time to talk to them. Equally, if they submitted a very good, well prepared application, had transferable skills, but were missing exact experience, I'd prob still consider their application.

[Geraldine]

Although I agree with some points I was often in receipt of poor CVs and no handwritten covering letters, (that line in an advert was intentional as I was checking if you could follow clear written instructions, essential in helping prepare patients prescriptions) I still would say if you don't meet the criteria then it can be worth a shot. Over the years I have interviewed many who supposedly had the skills and some who didn't have previous experience. All I have learnt in those 10 years is that I can teach you the skills of how to do the job but I cannot teach you a personality that cares for patients or colleagues... I was intrigued to learn that one of the chief execs in a big UK hospital had a major rethink about hiring staff and at interview for domestics, asks can you act the role of someone who enjoys mopping the floor around patients. Rather than asking can you mop the floor...The other issue to consider is skill shortage. Often the person who gets a job is the best out of the bunch who bother to apply sometimes the employer can feel like the beggar rather than the other way around.....just try recruiting GPs.....

[VERYSTORMY]

I also disagree with point 3. I recruit fairly regularly and have often given ground on the experience front because the candidate is good. It is maddness not to. Would you turn away a excellent candidate because they had 1 year and 11 months experience? I k ow i would not and i would look at a candidate without experience if they seemed right - i would rather have a very keen candidate that wants to work hard, then someone with 2 years but is going to be a pain.

Likewise point 1. For myself, i often call first as the ads rarely have enough information and i do not want to waste my time or the empoyers.

[Victoriagal]

lol - ok in general I don't disagree with your comments when you are looking for a position that is a bit above the sort of pay scale I'm talking about. For professionals the rules are generally a bit different. Some roles it pays to show initiative and some roles you can work round levels of experience and/or show transferable skills. Some adverts leave you needing to know more before you want to consider applying for the role especially before considering moving jobs, but maybe I was a bit vague when I said I wasn't looking for CEO's. I'm talking a very small coffee business which needs a few skills; make coffee, cook food and serve customers so not terribly complex.

 

So from a very small business perspective; I don't have time to field a 100 phone calls and text messages on top of already trying to deal with a flood of CV's, so would far prefer to narrow down first. I also know from experience that when looking for staff in the hospitality trade you will get all sorts applying. From the very over-qualified who simply need to work, (but I can't afford them), to the person straight out of school who has no experience at all. In my last place I employed over 10 staff and we could afford to take on one trainee at a time but this time round the team is only four so must have a minimum level of experience which is why it was highlighted in the ad. So having highlighted that requirement I accept it when someone is 'nearly there' and if say they only actually have 19 months experience I'm not going to dismiss them out of hand but at the same time when you ask for a cook, I'm not going to consider the pile of applicants that have been kitchen hands and waitresses but 'learn fast'.

 

To be honest most of the above I can get round as I understand that for the hospitality trade you will get far more applications than you can generally handle but I do think a good 80% of applications I did not even consider because they were so tardy. Those that were short-listed met the basic requirements for the ad and made a reasonable job of putting a CV and letter together. Those ones I then read and picked out a handful for interview. Those that were half an hour to an hour late for interview didn't make it any further, even though they might have great skills I also need them to show up on time.

 

I've worked HR (very briefly - wasn't for me) and have had to process hundreds of CV's as I have since being in business and it still amazes me that for something that is the foundation of finding work for many people (not all) that it is not better mastered. I also wonder at the level of literacy coming out of school, my ten year old could spell better than some of the applicants and in the days of spell checkers and grammar checkers I am puzzled by the levels of inaccuracy, even for someone who does not have English as a first language.

 

The good news is I now have two new members of the team and we are one week away from opening! Now the nerves start kicking in and I won't sleep for a week.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

With regard to the essential criteria, I think it depends on how

Desperate the organisation is. I didn't apply for an international job, as it asked for child protection experience..which I've got, but also asking for experience with the Hague convention which I know about but not had work experience in it, hence I didn't apply. It turns out a colleague of mine got the job, no child protection experience and definitely no Hague convention experience. I was so gutted I didn't just apply for it, my colleague said i'm glad you didn't go for it, as I would never have got it!

When I first arrived in Oz, I thought if they write the criteria is essential then if I didn't have what they asked for I wouldn't apply. I now realise you just have to apply. I have seen soooo many people get jobs they have no experience in even if it states it is required.

[flag of convenience]

I actually dispair at the quality of some of the interviewers, to be honest. It doesn't take a very difficult question to throw some of balance.

[flag of convenience]

With regard to the essential criteria, I think it depends on how

Desperate the organisation is. I didn't apply for an international job, as it asked for child protection experience..which I've got, but also asking for experience with the Hague convention which I know about but not had work experience in it, hence I didn't apply. It turns out a colleague of mine got the job, no child protection experience and definitely no Hague convention experience. I was so gutted I didn't just apply for it, my colleague said i'm glad you didn't go for it, as I would never have got it!

When I first arrived in Oz, I thought if they write the criteria is essential then if I didn't have what they asked for I wouldn't apply. I now realise you just have to apply. I have seen soooo many people get jobs they have no experience in even if it states it is required.

 

In many areas it appears little short of a joke. They go through a process even when the position has already been or about to be given to an insider. There are few rules and what I used to hate in the early days was the time and effort writing the nonsence selection critera even though previous positions were of a higher level applying for and hit and miss interviews.No wonder so many folk in Oz prefer to work for themselves.

[flag of convenience]

lol - ok in general I don't disagree with your comments when you are looking for a position that is a bit above the sort of pay scale I'm talking about. For professionals the rules are generally a bit different. Some roles it pays to show initiative and some roles you can work round levels of experience and/or show transferable skills. Some adverts leave you needing to know more before you want to consider applying for the role especially before considering moving jobs, but maybe I was a bit vague when I said I wasn't looking for CEO's. I'm talking a very small coffee business which needs a few skills; make coffee, cook food and serve customers so not terribly complex.

 

So from a very small business perspective; I don't have time to field a 100 phone calls and text messages on top of already trying to deal with a flood of CV's, so would far prefer to narrow down first. I also know from experience that when looking for staff in the hospitality trade you will get all sorts applying. From the very over-qualified who simply need to work, (but I can't afford them), to the person straight out of school who has no experience at all. In my last place I employed over 10 staff and we could afford to take on one trainee at a time but this time round the team is only four so must have a minimum level of experience which is why it was highlighted in the ad. So having highlighted that requirement I accept it when someone is 'nearly there' and if say they only actually have 19 months experience I'm not going to dismiss them out of hand but at the same time when you ask for a cook, I'm not going to consider the pile of applicants that have been kitchen hands and waitresses but 'learn fast'.

 

To be honest most of the above I can get round as I understand that for the hospitality trade you will get far more applications than you can generally handle but I do think a good 80% of applications I did not even consider because they were so tardy. Those that were short-listed met the basic requirements for the ad and made a reasonable job of putting a CV and letter together. Those ones I then read and picked out a handful for interview. Those that were half an hour to an hour late for interview didn't make it any further, even though they might have great skills I also need them to show up on time.

 

I've worked HR (very briefly - wasn't for me) and have had to process hundreds of CV's as I have since being in business and it still amazes me that for something that is the foundation of finding work for many people (not all) that it is not better mastered. I also wonder at the level of literacy coming out of school, my ten year old could spell better than some of the applicants and in the days of spell checkers and grammar checkers I am puzzled by the levels of inaccuracy, even for someone who does not have English as a first language.

 

The good news is I now have two new members of the team and we are one week away from opening! Now the nerves start kicking in and I won't sleep for a week.

 

Such comflexity involved to employ a coffee maker and sandwich maker......

[Victoriagal]

Hate the whole selection criteria thing too! Partly why we are back to working for ourselves again as it wasn't Plan A! That and too old...

 

I would also be gutted if I had not applied for a job because I did not fulfil the criteria to find out someone had got it without them. I think don't understand why the add doesn't say "having xxx would be advantageous" at least then you can decide if to go for it or not. We said having an RSA cert would be advantageous knowing that some would have it some not but it takes five minutes to get it so not a biggie.

[Victoriagal]

Such comflexity involved to employ a coffee maker and sandwich maker......

 

get it right good coffee and food, wrong might as well not open..... :wink:

[Wellers and Whitehead]

In many areas it appears little short of a joke. They go through a process even when the position has already been or about to be given to an insider. There are few rules and what I used to hate in the early days was the time and effort writing the nonsence selection critera even though previous positions were of a higher level applying for and hit and miss interviews.No wonder so many folk in Oz prefer to work for themselves.

The amount of times I have gone to an interview, and feel in my gut that I didn't get it because an insider got it, 's filled the positron who knew the systems/local knowledge' blah blah.

The job I mentioned above was not an insider, she worked at my current place of employment working mainly with males, good knows what she put in her job app to fill the criteria. Generation Y, who talk the talk, but know she struggled with the job for several months, potentially still does.

[Skippy1]

+1 victoriagirl............... having been involved in catering a good waiter and waitress are worth their weight in gold and would we all not be happy to know such an employer went to such lengths to make sure we get the best service

If i was in Melbourne I would be first to give her my business best of luck with the new venture. with that attitude it will be a success dont you worry, but i know the feeling of those sleepless nights :arghh:

[Victoriagal]

The amount of times I have gone to an interview, and feel in my gut that I didn't get it because an insider got it, 's filled the positron who knew the systems/local knowledge' blah blah.

The job I mentioned above was not an insider, she worked at my current place of employment working mainly with males, good knows what she put in her job app to fill the criteria. Generation Y, who talk the talk, but know she struggled with the job for several months, potentially still does.

 

Maybe if she gives in you will then have the inside track to step in? I guess once you are in the 'system' so to speak you are then better equipped to have the local knowledge and make the contacts you need with networking to move up. I think the hard bit moving to Australia is that first step on the ladder. I know of people who have been here over six months, highly skilled and not getting anywhere fast. We are fortunate we had a plan B or we would be going back to NZ or UK by now.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

Maybe if she gives in you will then have the inside track to step in? I guess once you are in the 'system' so to speak you are then better equipped to have the local knowledge and make the contacts you need with networking to move up. I think the hard bit moving to Australia is that first step on the ladder. I know of people who have been here over six months, highly skilled and not getting anywhere fast. We are fortunate we had a plan B or we would be going back to NZ or UK by now.[/quote

 

15 months on, and still saying it about local knowledge. 3 people that interviewed me didn't even ask about local knowledge, and my feed back was I didn't have any?! Even when I mentioned services within the area!? Actually it was a service on the website of the hospital, and they didn't know what I was taking about?! Fab job too!! Hey ho! I did stop applying for jobs after a while add lost the will to live with it all, i'm now applying for jobs that I don't fit all the criteria for, but who knows, if all these gen Y s can do it, so can I!!

[Victoriagal]

+1 victoriagirl............... having been involved in catering a good waiter and waitress are worth their weight in gold and would we all not be happy to know such an employer went to such lengths to make sure we get the best service

If i was in Melbourne I would be first to give her my business best of luck with the new venture. with that attitude it will be a success dont you worry, but i know the feeling of those sleepless nights :arghh:

 

Thank you kind sir.... :notworthy: words of encouragement are much appreciated. Only 6 sleepless nights to go then we'll be so exhausted we'll be in bed by 9pm - lol.

[ahmed ayman]

I hope you great opining and real success. This was very helpful. What a usefull conversation.

[Victoriagal]

Maybe if she gives in you will then have the inside track to step in? I guess once you are in the 'system' so to speak you are then better equipped to have the local knowledge and make the contacts you need with networking to move up. I think the hard bit moving to Australia is that first step on the ladder. I know of people who have been here over six months, highly skilled and not getting anywhere fast. We are fortunate we had a plan B or we would be going back to NZ or UK by now.[/quote

 

15 months on, and still saying it about local knowledge. 3 people that interviewed me didn't even ask about local knowledge, and my feed back was I didn't have any?! Even when I mentioned services within the area!? Actually it was a service on the website of the hospital, and they didn't know what I was taking about?! Fab job too!! Hey ho! I did stop applying for jobs after a while add lost the will to live with it all, i'm now applying for jobs that I don't fit all the criteria for, but who knows, if all these gen Y s can do it, so can I!!

 

It is really demoralising when you get the same lame reasons trotted out to you and I do think age goes against you here as you are deemed too expensive compared to the younger generation. Just be careful with applications that you don't sell yourself short either, I got some serious weight chefs applying for a basic cook position and their applications came over as 'desperate'. If you are in a job and keep plugging away things will happen. I think (hope) once the uncertainty of the election is past things may also change on the employment front as employers have more confidence in the future. We couldn't wait that long and for us the business option gives us both work. Seven years hard yakka and I'm off to find a third world beach somewhere to spend my retirement! Good luck with it, keep positive and something will appear when you least expect it. :hug: