Grocery prices - UK vs Australia from our recent reccie

[Harpodom]

I was referring to FRANCE!!

 

However, if your only shopping option was Westfield then you probably were living in the wrong part of Australia. The joy of shopping here for me is all the independent stores and markets Much as I imagined life on France to be (though Harpo suggests I am wrong there and since I haven't been in the past 5 years of course places change.

 

It hasn't changed that much. You still get an abundance of boutique style shops in France, but I think the big difference is that they are becoming more of a rarity in villages and small towns. Partly because of the GFC I assume, but also because of the supermarkets. Even the French, who are fiercely protective of their unique (and it is unique) way of life realise that if you can travel 15 miles and get EVERYTHING under one roof, very good quality, very reasonably priced, then that is preferable to paying effectively double in terms of money and time spent by shopping more locally in multiple individual shops

[Skani]

Can I assume you dont buy anything made in China or any other low wage economy ?

 

Well, actually I try not to.

But I also don't bleat incessantly about not being able to buy the cheapest food on the planet.

I expect to pay a food producer a decent living wage to produce food for me.

 

UK bananas used to be sourced almost exclusively from the Caribbean. The importers forced the price down so low that about 80% of the producers were forced out...and then the importing cartels move on to the next impoverished third world country with no unions and no democracy so that they can buy their bananas even more cheaply.

[Skani]

Because in the UK we can pretty much get everything at a reasonable cost in them....we don't have to get up at the crack of dawn and drive half an hour (minimum) to ensure we're not ripped off.

 

Either do we. I have 3 independent, quality food stores about 5 minutes drive away...all closer than either Coles or Woolies. Interestingly, they are all doing booming trade and are now stocking many of the brand name items which the big supermarkets have dispensed with (in favour of their home brands).

[Guest]

Well, actually I try not to.

But I also don't bleat incessantly about not being able to buy the cheapest food on the planet.

I expect to pay a food producer a decent living wage to produce food for me.

 

UK bananas used to be sourced almost exclusively from the Caribbean. The importers forced the price down so low that about 80% of the producers were forced out...and then the importing cartels move on to the next impoverished third world country with no unions and no democracy so that they can buy their bananas even more cheaply.

 

​Well said.

[Guest Ptp113]

Either do we. I have 3 independent, quality food stores about 5 minutes drive away...all closer than either Coles or Woolies. Interestingly, they are all doing booming trade and are now stocking many of the brand name items which the big supermarkets have dispensed with (in favour of their home brands).

 

Ms Conned wouldnt know that, she barely left her home

[fourcorners]

I was referring to FRANCE!!

 

However, if your only shopping option was Westfield then you probably were living in the wrong part of Australia. The joy of shopping here for me is all the independent stores and markets Much as I imagined life on France to be (though Harpo suggests I am wrong there and since I haven't been in the past 5 years of course places change.

 

 

You may have lots of nice independent stores in and around Perth City, but more rural areas of Australia can hardly be compared to the towns and villages of rural France. Here in Kalgoorlie we have three options, IGA, Coles or Woolworths. We can't shop around. At least Coles stock a lot of WA grown produce but they don't have as much choice as Woolworths.

 

The UK has far more local farm shops and markets than WA, I went to some fantastic ones whilst I was back there for 3 weeks. I think Jules you will be more than pleasantly surprised when you do move back there. In particular I did notice the surge in interest in local butchers thanks to the horsemeat scandal!

[Guest Ptp113]

You may have lots of nice independent stores in and around Perth City, but more rural areas of Australia can hardly be compared to the towns and villages of rural France. Here in Kalgoorlie we have three options, IGA, Coles or Woolworths. We can't shop around. At least Coles stock a lot of WA grown produce but they don't have as much choice as Woolworths.

 

The UK has far more local farm shops and markets than WA, I went to some fantastic ones whilst I was back there for 3 weeks. I think Jules you will be more than pleasantly surprised when you do move back there. In particular I did notice the surge in interest in local butchers thanks to the horsemeat scandal!

 

Why do you keep using Kal as an example? It's the backwoods of WA and bares no resemblance to the rest of the country. We have a plethora of farmers markets, organic shops, and direct supply outlets. Spoilt for choice actually.

[Skani]

I'm willing to bet that our 'fair trade' bananas are still considerably cheaper than the one's grown 'locally' in Australia......

 

I have just paid $1.99 kg for bananas. I live on a comfortable (but below average) income in a first world economy. I would far prefer to pay extra so that Australian banana farmers can also have a reasonable income in a first world economy than have them forced into unemployment by cheaper bananas from a third world country. Not only is it a personal disaster for them to be unemployed but it forces up the cost (and therefore tax) of unemployment benefits.

 

Banana growing is relentless, back breaking work in hot, humid conditions. I don't begrudge them a decent living at all.

Farmers are the most precious people on this planet. We should be looking after them instead of screwing them to the wall so that we have more money to spend on designer clothes and overseas holidays.

[Skani]

The UK has far more local farm shops and markets than WA,

 

I jolly well hope so...considering its population density is about 700 times that of WA.

No one would expect a state with less than 1 person to the square km. to compete on local shops and markets.

[Harpodom]

I jolly well hope so...considering its population density is about 700 times that of WA.

No one would expect a state with less than 1 person to the square km. to compete on local shops and markets.

 

But aren't you surprised that there are such things as shops and roads in the UK Skani? Let alone farmers markets...

[Guest Ptp113]

I'm willing to bet that our 'fair trade' bananas are still considerably cheaper than the one's grown 'locally' in Australia......

 

$1 a kilo, straight from the grower. And look up 'food miles' for most pommy food, it's bad!

[Skani]

But aren't you surprised that there are such things as shops and roads in the UK Skani? Let alone farmers markets...

 

That response may make sense in Harpo World - it certainly doesn't in the world of rationality and relevance.

[Skani]

Even the French, who are fiercely protective of their unique (and it is unique) way of life realise that if you can travel 15 miles and get EVERYTHING under one roof, very good quality, very reasonably priced, then that is preferable to paying effectively double in terms of money and time spent by shopping more locally in multiple individual shops

 

​And the small shopkeepers now out of a job have contributed to the record unemployment level just announced in France - for which the French will ultimately pay in increased social security benefits and social instability.

[Guest]

You may have lots of nice independent stores in and around Perth City, but more rural areas of Australia can hardly be compared to the towns and villages of rural France. Here in Kalgoorlie we have three options, IGA, Coles or Woolworths. We can't shop around. At least Coles stock a lot of WA grown produce but they don't have as much choice as Woolworths.

 

The UK has far more local farm shops and markets than WA, I went to some fantastic ones whilst I was back there for 3 weeks. I think Jules you will be more than pleasantly surprised when you do move back there. In particular I did notice the surge in interest in local butchers thanks to the horsemeat scandal!

 

I hope I am, I do believe people are starting to make more conscious choices about what they buy and where they buy it from. However when I last lived in the UK you had to pay more to buy from farmer's markets/farm shops (& I was disturbed to find a lot of produce at so-called farm shops was imported anyway!) whereas here it is about half the cost of supermarket shopping. In the area I am moving back to there is a monthly farmer's market, that hardly meets my needs for fresh food!

 

Of course you cannot compare the 'whole of the UK' with the 'whole of Australia' - there are many parts of Scotland where the nearest shop is a helicopter ride away! I don't think the poster I was responding to though lived in rural Australia and their complaint was having to go to different shops which just surprised me as they are moving to France, which I believed (rightly or wrongly!) has a similar culture to Australia in that one respect.

 

I love having different shops to go to!

[starlight7]

We are ripped off in Australia- but I'd still rather live here.

[Harpodom]

​And the small shopkeepers now out of a job have contributed to the record unemployment level just announced in France - for which the French will ultimately pay in increased social security benefits and social instability.

 

The thing is Skani, and this appears to be the crux of the difference of the 'Aussie Way©' and that of the rest of the world: no one is owed a living, they need to be able to justify it

[fourcorners]

Why do you keep using Kal as an example? It's the backwoods of WA and bares no resemblance to the rest of the country. We have a plethora of farmers markets, organic shops, and direct supply outlets. Spoilt for choice actually.

 

Why do I keep using Kal as an example? because I LIVE here!

 

Not everyone lives in a big city, not everyone is spoilt for choice. Just because I live in the 'backwoods' doesn't mean my voice isn't equally as important as yours Wendee!

[Bobj]

I'm willing to bet that our 'fair trade' bananas are still considerably cheaper than the one's grown 'locally' in Australia......

 

 

How much are you willing to bet??? Hmmm??

 

I grow bananas 'locally' and they are all free to anyone who is willing to come and pick them up. As a matter of fact, have 4 bunches due to be harvested soon and they will all be given away.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[fourcorners]

I hope I am, I do believe people are starting to make more conscious choices about what they buy and where they buy it from. However when I last lived in the UK you had to pay more to buy from farmer's markets/farm shops (& I was disturbed to find a lot of produce at so-called farm shops was imported anyway!) whereas here it is about half the cost of supermarket shopping. In the area I am moving back to there is a monthly farmer's market, that hardly meets my needs for fresh food!

 

Of course you cannot compare the 'whole of the UK' with the 'whole of Australia' - there are many parts of Scotland where the nearest shop is a helicopter ride away! I don't think the poster I was responding to though lived in rural Australia and their complaint was having to go to different shops which just surprised me as they are moving to France, which I believed (rightly or wrongly!) has a similar culture to Australia in that one respect.

 

I love having different shops to go to!

 

 

I don't think there is a 'culture' in Australia of using lots of independent shops though. Most people I know (that live in cities across Australia not just Kalgoorlie before Wendee chimes in) all do the vast majority of their shopping at big supermarkets.

[Harpodom]

I don't think there is a 'culture' in Australia of using lots of independent shops though. Most people I know (that live in cities across Australia not just Kalgoorlie before Wendee chimes in) all do the vast majority of their shopping at big supermarkets.

 

Nor do I, I think its one of those myths about Aus that the majority happily perpetuate, like the one about Aussies cooking everything from scratch

[Guest Ptp113]

Why do I keep using Kal as an example? because I LIVE here!

 

Not everyone lives in a big city, not everyone is spoilt for choice. Just because I live in the 'backwoods' doesn't mean my voice isn't equally as important as yours Wendee!

 

So that qualifies you to post? And enlighten me, where else have you lived?

Edited April 29, 2013 by noworriesmate

[Skani]

The thing is Skani, and this appears to be the crux of the difference of the 'Aussie Way©' and that of the rest of the world: no one is owed a living, they need to be able to justify it

 

So how are you going to explain that to the 5.5 million unemployed in the UK and France?

​

"Sorry, but we don't owe you a living. You need to be able to justify an income by producing something which the rest of society is prepared to pay for. So your unemployment benefits will be discontinued forthwith."

[Skani]

I think its one of those myths about Aus that the majority happily perpetuate, like the one about Aussies cooking everything from scratch

 

I don't know about majority and myth, I'd never thought about this subject until I encountered PIO. But I have been surprised by posters who have said they have been doing much more "cooking from scratch" since they arrived in Oz. It had never occurred to me that there was any other way.

[northshorepom]

I don't think there is a 'culture' in Australia of using lots of independent shops though. Most people I know (that live in cities across Australia not just Kalgoorlie before Wendee chimes in) all do the vast majority of their shopping at big supermarkets.

 

I agree. I don't see any greater proliferation of "small shops" or local producers here - in many areas it's quite the contrary. Witness the way every suburban Westfield has virtually all the same shops in it. Or the bulk markets for, say, cooked meats, beer and cheese - totally dominated by mass producers in a way that they are not so much in certain other countries

[Harpodom]

So how are you going to explain that to the 5.5 million unemployed in the UK and France?

​

"Sorry, but we don't owe you a living. You need to be able to justify an income by producing something which the rest of society is prepared to pay for. So your unemployment benefits will be discontinued forthwith."

Pah!

 

Stoopid interpretation Skani and you know it. Of course society should look after those who cannot (for whatever reason: illness, unemployment, disability) look after themselves.

 

I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to the culture which appears endemic in Aus retail/service whereby just by 'turning up' you can expect a lavish lifestyle. It is on display ALL the time: cafes closing at 5pm (or 3pm weekends), businesses closing completely between Dec 24 and late jan, tradies charging through the nose for work that doesn't require much skill, shops selling stuff that is more than double what you might pay for the same item delivered from an internet retailer, Gerry Harvey trying to reduce the effects of internet competition, bakeries charging up to $6 for a loaf of bread, milk bars charging $10 for a can of coke and a pie, dentists frisking you for credit cards on the way out, pharmacists charging insane amounts for paracetamol re-branded as 'Bollox-amol'.....I could go on...