Guest51810 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Who knows. Its a very complex subject. I just try and not judge people, i would obviously be devastated though if a family member did it. Both parents are on anti-depressants, my mum has had some bad times with it and its a worry for me because you just never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 In your desperation your family should be at the front of you mind "Should be"? perhaps. Personally, I think you're talking a load of, I would never wish that desperation on you or anyone else. If you had ever experienced real desperation, you would realise that it is all pervasive and smothers any other thoughts. Just a dose of reality for someone who clealry lives in a fantasy world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I work everyday with people who are actively trying to end their lives, its difficult especially as i feel they have a right to end their own life if they wish, however i find myself restraining people on the floor, cutting them free from ligatures, putting them in isolated rooms and getting injured myself in the process....i also have someone very close to me attempt suicide numerous times, on the last attempt she was left brain damaged and now can no longer do ANYTHING for herself. Another girl i know from school completed suicide when she lost her job by hanging herself, she had no one in her life and her suicide affected very few people. The majority of suicide attempts i deal with are people who are extremely distressed but do not actually want to die, rather describe their trauma in a way that words cant, despite the constant dramas and the people who are not used to seeing these acts can think they are dangerous when their not. Some people choose to exit this life and are not unwell but make perfectly stable decisions, why should they remain in the world suffering unnecessarily? i believe for some people their pain and hurt will never leave and if they think death is the answer then they should not be judged for it or repeatedly try to be saved and forced to live by others. Some people are more simply depressed or psychotic and can be helped. Everyone has an opinion and they are all correct, we should not judge anyone on how they feel about this subject, there is no right or wrong view. I have found some of the comments on this thread funny and was more offended by people getting angered at an alternative but equally valid opinion. Suicide breaks my heart in people who were here one minute and gone the next, didn't ask for help and no support around them to show an alternative route...but for the others who have had all the support and still insist..go ahead...its your life. Some also attempt suicide to get a hospital bed and back into the system...that too is very sad for them. I am not a bad person for feeling that most suicide attempts are attention seeking, i never used to have this view until i got the job i have where i deal with it daily, i also volunteer for the Samaritans, and went through a horrific period of feeling suicidal and see it from every angle. And attempting suicide for attention is not a flippant or uncaring remark, the mind of someone who goes that far for attention is not in a good place and have my sympathy. It is all the things described by all the posters and was interesting to read, more people should discuss it openly, its too hidden away which can result in people struggling, feeling selfish and ashamed, and not knowing who to turn to for help...and also depression is a deeply selfish illness..if the sufferer wasn't so inward looking and focused on their own feelings they wouldn't be depressed. And i hope that even those who feel it is a selfish act, if someone close to you disclosed suicidal feelings you wouldn't put this further guilt on them by telling them your feelings straight away! Successful suicides are soooo sad and i would not wish anyone ever to feel that way for whatever reason. I don't know everything about it but i think everyone who posted was brave to submit their view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 wow didnt think my post would have been that long lol i dont read the posts that are too long so i wont expect anyone to read all that..i dont say much of any importance anyway tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I remember watching one of those emergency type programs and a woman had jumped out a window and killed herself. She'd left a note to her family and also one saying to look after her dog. There was a interview with one of her daughters and i remember her saying that even though she was obviously devastated - her mum had extreme problems and was in a lot of pain and that was the only way she could see of getting rid of it. Wether you think its selfish or not its just so terribly sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 wow didnt think my post would have been that long lol i dont read the posts that are too long so i wont expect anyone to read all that..i dont say much of any importance anyway tbh I thought it was a good post. Its interesting to see it from someones view who deals with it everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I find it particularly sad in this day & age that people's sense of pride can over rule their common sense. What ever happened to picking yourself up off the floor, brushing yourself off and starting again? Aha! Another "give yourself a kick up the @rse" member. It's nothing to do with pride and all about the depths of despair that you sink to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Many people do feel like this yes and they think that the only way outside suicide, but in many the hurt they know it will mean to their kids and family prevent these people going through with it , I can only guess bu I would bet there are so many more who would take their own lives if they did not have kids, I feel for these people but in some circumstances .....yes I do think its selfish. You would........pretty typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 You would........pretty typical. In some cases it is selfish, in some it not, lets not forget that some people who commit suicide ( small minority) are not nice people and don't care about the people they leave behind to grieve for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 It is all the things described by all the posters and was interesting to read, more people should discuss it openly, its too hidden away which can result in people struggling, feeling selfish and ashamed, and not knowing who to turn to for help...and also depression is a deeply selfish illness..if the sufferer wasn't so inward looking and focused on their own feelings they wouldn't be depressed. If talked about in the literal sense perhaps, but that too is a "character/menta flaw" at the time of depression (if you will). The way "selfishness" has been used in this thread, is to infer that the selfishness is a "choice". Of course one commits suicide based on how one is feeling, to the exclusion of others, but that is brought about by the level of despair/depression in most cases. If it wasn't, how would you explain the thousands of totally unselfish people who commit suicide..............it's "blip" in their character at that momnet in time, not brought on by rational thinking, but by desperation/devastation/depression/loss of hope. The act at that moment in time may be selfish, but that should not infer that suicidal people are selfish per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 i agree...one act doesn't define the person If talked about in the literal sense perhaps, but that too is a "character/menta flaw" at the time of depression (if you will). The way "selfishness" has been used in this thread, is to infer that the selfishness is a "choice". Of course one commits suicide based on how one is feeling, to the exclusion of others, but that is brought about by the level of despair/depression in most cases. If it wasn't, how would you explain the thousands of totally unselfish people who commit suicide..............it's "blip" in their character at that momnet in time, not brought on by rational thinking, but by desperation/devastation/depression/loss of hope. The act at that moment in time may be selfish, but that should not infer that suicidal people are selfish per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 wow didnt think my post would have been that long lol i dont read the posts that are too long so i wont expect anyone to read all that..i dont say much of any importance anyway tbh Yes you do. It is good that it can be debated............I read your long post so read mine :biggrin: It needs to be out in the open. I "blipped" a while back on the forum under another identity and was surprised to receive a number of posts form other members feeling/who had felt exactly the same as I did at that time. I hope it was helpful for them to "divulge" and I hope that this thread too will perhaps let others know that they are not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 It's very easy for people to assume all suicides are due to mental illness, and whilst i appreciate this is a factor in most, one which is financially driven are people who cannot face something that's happened or something they have done for them to be financially broken...and for me, i find this selfish, and in this instance i would say that yes, if your business has gone under and you owe thousands and you have not a bean to your name...you can definitely pick yourself back up off the floor...you just lose some of your pride. That in itself can be enough to drive someone into depression. It's the depression that drives the suicide, not the pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 i agree...one act doesn't define the person Leaving. Family to grieve especially kids is selfish no matter how bad the. depression is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 In some cases it is selfish, in some it not, lets not forget that some people who commit suicide ( small minority) are not nice people and don't care about the people they leave behind to grieve for the rest of their lives. I thought I was on ignore. You're now talking about a "small minority" whereas before you inferred that all suicides were selfish people. As for "nice people"? please qualify as to what constitutes a "nice" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 yes the act is selfish, but the person may not be selfish under different circumstances, i guess now we're onto define 'selfish' ohhhh good night Leaving. Family to grieve especially kids is selfish no matter how bad the. depression is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 yes the act is selfish, but the person may not be selfish under different circumstances, i guess now we're onto define 'selfish' ohhhh good night Good night, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Leaving. Family to grieve especially kids is selfish no matter how bad the. depression is So are you saying that a suicide is a selfish person or that they commit an isolated selfish act. If the latter, you seel to be inferring that depression can be overcome by somehow becoming magically, at that moment in time of the suicide, unselfish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetbelly Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Suicide is selfish? Each to their own but in my opinion it's one of the bravest decisions someone can take. To have got that far that the best course of action they feel is suicide takes a lot of strength. Or it could be that it's a mental health issue then that's a different kettle of fish. In my short life so far, I've known far too many people commit suicide, though to be fair 1 really should be too many, and too many attempt it. I've seen the upset but I've also seen the relief of relatives who know that person is free of pain and anguish. It swings both ways. I myself have suffered with bipolar2 for countless years. Suicidal yes, tried? No. Younger brother, tried countless times as a cry for attention. Me, I don't want the attention, I just want what's best for me and help works for me. Not for everyone. It's a very subjective and opinionated subject. Especially the mental illness side, as quite frankly, as much as you can try to empathise with someone with depression say. If you havent suffered from it then it's really hard to explain just how it effects someone without it sounding like just a bad day almost. God knows if I've got any sort of point across. Just a subject I feel a lot about. Every bit of charity fundraising I do goes straight to the black dog institute. Last year, I think it was near $8k. Partly because it helps me too and like I said, a cause very close to my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Suicide is selfish? Each to their own but in my opinion it's one of the bravest decisions someone can take. To have got that far that the best course of action they feel is suicide takes a lot of strength. Or it could be that it's a mental health issue then that's a different kettle of fish. In my short life so far, I've known far too many people commit suicide, though to be fair 1 really should be too many, and too many attempt it. I've seen the upset but I've also seen the relief of relatives who know that person is free of pain and anguish. It swings both ways. I myself have suffered with bipolar2 for countless years. Suicidal yes, tried? No. Younger brother, tried countless times as a cry for attention. Me, I don't want the attention, I just want what's best for me and help works for me. Not for everyone. It's a very subjective and opinionated subject. Especially the mental illness side, as quite frankly, as much as you can try to empathise with someone with depression say. If you havent suffered from it then it's really hard to explain just how it effects someone without it sounding like just a bad day almost. God knows if I've got any sort of point across. Just a subject I feel a lot about. Every bit of charity fundraising I do goes straight to the black dog institute. Last year, I think it was near $8k. Partly because it helps me too and like I said, a cause very close to my heart. Brave to leave a wife and your kids to grieve, brave to most probably scar your kid for the rest of their lives, brave to leave your family in a situation where they have to sell the roof over their heads and apply ir benifits......nah mate, it'sit's selfish. I had a real bad time but to think I would end it leaving others in the shitte is just not real, even in the darkest moments your family is number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Suicide is selfish? Each to their own but in my opinion it's one of the bravest decisions someone can take. To have got that far that the best course of action they feel is suicide takes a lot of strength. Or it could be that it's a mental health issue then that's a different kettle of fish. In my short life so far, I've known far too many people commit suicide, though to be fair 1 really should be too many, and too many attempt it. I've seen the upset but I've also seen the relief of relatives who know that person is free of pain and anguish. It swings both ways. I myself have suffered with bipolar2 for countless years. Suicidal yes, tried? No. Younger brother, tried countless times as a cry for attention. Me, I don't want the attention, I just want what's best for me and help works for me. Not for everyone. It's a very subjective and opinionated subject. Especially the mental illness side, as quite frankly, as much as you can try to empathise with someone with depression say. If you havent suffered from it then it's really hard to explain just how it effects someone without it sounding like just a bad day almost. God knows if I've got any sort of point across. Just a subject I feel a lot about. Every bit of charity fundraising I do goes straight to the black dog institute. Last year, I think it was near $8k. Partly because it helps me too and like I said, a cause very close to my heart. Good on yer mate for such a huge contribution. My 1st wife suffered from bi-polar so I know where you're coming from. My wife's mate is also bi-polar. A nurse practitioner she is top notch at her job and lives for it.............hyper all the time.............chat, chat, chat,..............move this, change this, organise this. My wife has to keep an eye on her when she slows down as she knows that the down side is eventuating and every time it does, she has thoughts of ending it all...........almost like she is totally spent. All her family have mental health issues and my wife is round there now as she got a message that her mate's brother had been found dead (interstate). He'd been dead for 2 weeks apparently and was only discovered due to the smell. God knows how she'll handle this! It's a reminder that it just isn't the old and frail who are on their own and need looking out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetbelly Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Brave to leave a wife and your kids to grieve, brave to most probably scar your kid for the rest of their lives, brave to leave your family in a situation where they have to sell the roof over their heads and apply ir benifits......nah mate, it'sit's selfish.I had a real bad time but to think I would end it leaving others in the shitte is just not real, even in the darkest moments your family is number one. Again, yes it can be and that's my opinion. As living with someone long term in total anguish and despair can be far more damaging long term... But again, each situation is different. Each person different. Personally, it's not our place to judge, just help the suffers. Be they the person suffering or the people suffering the fall out from a suicide. And Johndoe, I really hope your wifes mate will be ok. That's not a pleasant situation but as I say with support hopefully she'll be ok. My friends have been rocks for me, and my work are so understanding of my situation I'm exceptionally lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Again, yes it can be and that's my opinion. As living with someone long term in total anguish and despair can be far more damaging long term... But again, each situation is different. Each person different. Personally, it's not our place to judge, just help the suffers. Be they the person suffering or the people suffering the fall out from a suicide. And Johndoe, I really hope your wifes mate will be ok. That's not a pleasant situation but as I say with support hopefully she'll be ok. My friends have been rocks for me, and my work are so understanding of my situation I'm exceptionally lucky. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but to in all probability ruin your families lives for ever is selfish IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest16631 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Brave to leave a wife and your kids to grieve, brave to most probably scar your kid for the rest of their lives, brave to leave your family in a situation where they have to sell the roof over their heads and apply ir benifits......nah mate, it'sit's selfish. ..............I think this thread has shown most of us.............that the only way we could ever understand people with depression and suicidal tendencies..............is to get inside their skin........and live their lives.........experience their anguish.......... ...........as obviously we cannot do that............perhaps a bit of compassion for their desperate times............we are all entitled to our opinions............but could temper them with a little kindness..........it costs nothing............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetbelly Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thankyou, and as you're entitled to your opinion also... But you ruin lives for ever. I see a way of maybe breaking a cycle that isn't working for someone. And allowing someones family to grieve for someone then in time know they're better off. Time is a great healer. Shame most people, me I know for one lol, are impatient and want the pain to all go now. As I said, it's a very emotive and dividing subject. Shame it's a subject that exists but it does and support is all we can give to people really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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