imthedave

I thought it was supposed to go through by July 2018 but it didn't progress. I haven't heard anything since but been looking nearly every other day. I've not found anything about it coming up again next month although everytime I see that Peter Dutton on the news my heart skips a beat..... I'm due to apply in Feb 2019....

Hi all, I have a question about eligibility to start the process. On the assumption the current rules don't change (which I'm hopeful of), this is what is says about eligibility: Current Requirements for Australian Citizenship. To be eligible for citizenship you must: Have been living in Australia on a valid visa for the four years immediately before applying (this may include holding temporary and/or bridging visas) Have held a permanent residency visa for at least the past 12 months. Question: What constitutes a temporary visa? I got relocated to Australia for my work nearly 4 years ago and I'm wondering when my start point is for counting back the 4 years. Date 1: Date of entry: Entered on a 651 temporary evisa Date 2: Applied for 457 visa Date 3: Bridging visa granted (not sure if bridging visa grants the same rights as the 651 visa to just allow me to stay or is considered part of the 457 Date 4: 457 visa granted Date 5: Pretty much exactly 3 years to the day after date 1, PR granted. I'm assuming it will either be date 1, date 3 or date 4 but as date 1 is coming up to the 4 year anniversary and it will also be 1 year since I got my PR, I'm wondering if it counts. Second question, when it comes to it, does everyone use a migration agent for citizenship? Obviously I used one for my other visas and it worked well however it seem unclear whether its recommended for citizenship. Any help would be appreciated thanks.

Exactly the same thing happened to me a few years ago with my first 457. The SBS sponsorship was only granted for 2 years and the 457 only granted for 18months. There was nothing that could be done because the business had to be operating for more than 2 years (have 2 full years financial statements) It all worked out for me though. 6 months before the first one expired I applied for a renewal and the SBS came back for 5 years and the 457 for 4 years. Ive since gone on and got my PR now so don’t worry, it’s normal and doesn’t mean there’s an issue other than they consider the business ‘new’. Whether you’re entitled to go on later for a 2 or 4 year 457 (or new visa type now) will depend on the position. In my case it was a brand new company set up as a subsidiary branch of an overseas business

Thanks for the answer but I think I’ve managed to clarify with immigration. As she’s under 16, she is not governed by the overall residency timeline requirements and must ‘just’ be a permanent resident. If she was over 16 at the point we could apply then she would have to do the 4 years but since our 4 years are up in any of the original scenarios before she turns 16, she can be included directly on ours [emoji16]

Hi, Not sure if this is exactly the right thread to ask this so apologies if not. Im trying to roughly calculate my timeline for eligibility for Citizenship. I just got my PR today (?) but this was always part of our long term plans. 1. Wife and I entered Australia on temporary visitor visas Feb 2015 and have been here ever since (except minimal travel) 2. Applied for 457 April 2015 for us both PLUS daughter, who was overseas studying. Bridging visas for all granted right away 3. All 457 visas fully granted April 2016 4. Daughter entered Australia for first time April 2017 (note her visa was granted same time as ours) 5. PR granted Feb 2018 I loosely understand the 4 years requirement which must include 1year on PR. Our daughter is now 13. Questions: 1. Does the 4 year timeline start from Feb 2015, which if taken 4 years on, allows us to apply for Citizenship Feb 2019 (which includes the 1 year PR) 2. If the above applies, given that our daughter will be 14 in Feb 2019, does that allow her to be included as our child? 3. Clearly we all want to apply together, therefore has delaying our daughters arrival shifted her eligibility to April 2021 (4 years after her arrival): by which time she will be 16 and therefore be required to take the citizenship test None of the above is a major issue for us. We were just wondering when we may all be able to think about applying ? Thanks

Visa granted today!!!! 12th Feb 2018 Considering I’m 48, I thought I would be classed as ‘too old’ The relief is immense!

To be honest, my MA has said a lot of immigration case officers are not fully up to speed with all the changes. I’m no expert by any means. I’m in the same boat as you. My MA is very good and whenever an issue comes up, he finds the relevant legal document issued by immigration and quotes their rules back to them. So far, it’s worked every time. I’d really suggest using a good agent. Don’t rely on your own company to do it. The document I attached was issued and can be found on the border immigration website. It’s pretty clear. If your case officer is saying something different, send him their own document and question it (respectfully!)

You still have to advertise the position in the regional area for 4 weeks in 3 different media (example, Seek, local paper, job centres etc) to demonstrate there is no local person suitable. The key is if your company really needs you and you have a unique set of skill sets (as you should have anyway if you’re applying for a 187), then you word the job advert very specifically so that you are the best suited candidate. Example: minimum 6 months experience in position, specific knowledge of {your company} technology etc. You then have to also have to ‘apply’ yourself by including your CV for comparison and have a legitimate reason for rejecting any applicants that do not compare to you or justify that you are the best person for the role. In other words, make the advert very specific to you. Its not difficult but it is worrying when advertising for your own job because there may be someone suitable.

If you held a 457 on 18th April 2017 (before the changes came in), then certain be conditions don’t apply like age and length of time before applying for PR. If the attached images aren’t clear, search for ‘Fact Sheet Two Australian Immigration’ Key points are under each section. Sorry, I can’t post a link for some reason. This affects me too but I’ve been told the attached rules apply and have a PR application in. Had nomination approved and waiting for the visa. I’m currently on a 4 year 457 with my job on the long term list and I’m 48 now. If you actually get PR, I don’t think there is an age limit on citizenship. That’s down to time spent (I think)

Just wondering if anyone here actually has their nomination approved and is just waiting for their visa? My RCB and nomination was approved in November and wondered: 1. What’s the average time from nomination approval to visa? 2. Once the RCB and Nomination has been granted, is there any degree of certainty that the visa will just be approved? I’m from a LR country, applied onshore. Position CEO as part of inter company transfer. My age is against me (48) but I got the application in back in June 2017 before the new restrictions came into effect

Applied for 187 DE (Nomination and Visa) June 2017. Various requests for more info... RCB approved Nov 2017 Nomination approved within days, Nov 2017 All visa stuff completed and now just waiting. Position CEO, overseas transfer. Location Victoria Applied onshore

Applied for 187 (Nomination and Visa) June 2017. Various requests for more info... RCB approved Nov 2017 Nomination approved within days, Nov 2017 All visa stuff completed and now just waiting. Position CEO, overseas transfer. Location Victoria

Actually NicF may be right but I don't know. My contract is permanent without an expiry date and the job description that went with the application also stated that. That said, my MA just contacted the immigration department and pointed out that the position was on the 4 year list and a mistake had occurred. They just corrected it without question. We put it down to a genuine error as when my original application went on, it moved down to the 2 year list. Then back to the 4 year one before it was completed. Even though it was on the 2 year list we still applied for the full 48 months. My agent said it was probably just linked to some computerised output upon application submission and it wasn't changed. Get your agent to appeal and maybe get your employer to confirm the position is permanent and the 2 year contract is just an initial one or something. Your visa will be specifically linked to the employment anyway so if it's granted for 4 years and your contract ends after 2, your visa becomes void and you have a limited time to find another job and sponsor. Another consideration is how long the employers sponsorship is valid for. My initial visa was only granted for 18 months (first 457 before this renewal) because the company was newly established and we could only get SBS sponsorship for 18 months. This time around the SBS was granted for the full 5 years. Hope this helps and good luck Sent using Poms in Oz mobile app

UPDATE: Department have corrected my visa and granted it for 4 years :-) No explanation but I'm not bothered by that. At least I've got it now!

My 457 has been corrected and now valid for 4 years ;-)

Hi, I'm after some advice. My 457 has recently been granted for a position on the MLTSSL list. It was a renewal as I'd held one that was about to expire. The title says it all in that although the eligibility is supposed to be 4 years, the visa was only granted for 2. I'm hoping its a clerical error but as some background, the position was put on the 2 year list in April then moved back the MLTSSL list in July. The position (111111 CEO/Managing Director) has some a caveat against it which links to the ability to actually apply in the first place rather than the length of time it would be granted for. Either way, I very easily meet this so it's not an issue. The renewal application was submitted in May and it was granted in August (last week). Even though at the time of submission, the position was on the 2 year list, we still applied for the 4 years (48 months) on the application. The Company sponsorship SBS was also up for renewal at the same time and this was renewed for 5 years 2 weeks before the visa was granted. I can't see any reason at all why this would only have been granted for 2 years and feel it is possibly a clerical error (there was no explanation or anything in the visa grant) other than the conditions it was granted against... employment, salary level, health insurance etc.. All the normal things. The only thing out of the ordinary was at the time of application submission, the position was on the 2 year list. It wasn't even processed or looked at other than granting the bridging visas before August. No updates between 2nd May (submission and bridging visas granted) and 21st August (when finalised and granted) I've asked my MA to contact them about this and ask why. They say its about 3 hours work (which they will of course charge me for!) and although there is a timeframe to appeal against rejected visa applications, there is no specific timeframe to question a granted one. They reckon it would take the department 2 - 3 weeks to respond. I know technically the MLTSSL visa says 'a maximum of 4 years' but it doesn't imply anything that would result in a shortened period or an 'up to 4 years' condition. I'm pushing my MA to hurry up with this because I don't want the rules to change again and the position be moved back to the short list but other than go through the MA to deal with, I don't actually know who to contact directly myself. If I phone the Immigration department, they give out general advice and not case specific. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

My 457 has just been renewed/granted BUT it is only valid for 2 years. I don't really understand this as my occupation is on the 4 year list. At least there is a part relief now but I'm getting my MA to check

Mine is a 457 renewal but effectively you have to go through the whole process again. We were a newly established foreign company so last time our visas were only granted for 18 months which is annoying because if they had been given normal status, I wouldn't be affected by the new changes. Last time: Company sponsorship: 2 days Nomination: Same day 457: 7 months This time: Company sponsorship renewal: - Submitted January 2017 (5 months before expiry) - question asked to reconfirmed meeting training requirement May 2017 - Granted valid for 5 years 11th Aug 2017 Nomination and 457 renewal submitted same time as above (January 2017): Still waiting and status as 'received' Reading here and on some other forums though, it seems to me that they are focusing more on the sponsorship and nominations to make sure they're valid then granting the actual visas fairly quickly. Hoping it will be sorted soon though. My current visa expires in October and have a bridging visa issued to cover from then. Im on the 4 year list, UK so low risk but I'm 47 so can no longer consider the PR transition later. Also currently have a PR DE visa application in, applied before the age limit changes.

Yes, I saw the caveats. I'm not worried about that because the salary is over the limit they've set plus I'm an intercorporate transfer from a US company so even if it wasn't, I comply with that one. To be honest, although I haven't heard from my MA yet, I'm ecstatic about this. Ive read and re read the legislation notes so many times and can't see a flaw that would effect me. I've spent since April worried sick that everything was going to fall apart but now there seems to be some hope. I've got a PR application in too but with the 457, as long as they still allow a 3 year transition to PR and keep the age limit at 50, then my original route looks like it's back open :-) It does seem that the government/immigration have realised the initial lists were very restrictive and caught up genuine cases and now are trying to put it right. I also note they've got very detailed descriptions and caveats against 'fast food' and restaurants, clearly stating the differences which is good because that's were all of this started from! Sent using Poms in Oz mobile app

I THINK my occupation has just been moved back to the 4 year list... :-/ I have literally been through hell over the last few months worrying about this and trying to get my 186 submitted... 457 renewal is lodged and waiting to be processed. Still sweating it out until Monday when I can speak to my MA but if I'm right, and the 111111 CEO/MD has moved back to the 4 year list, that means I'm eligible again for the transition (I think) unless they change the age limit again. I'm pretty sure the transition route is remaining at 50 for now and those with 457 granted are still eligible. Going to be a long sleepless weekend....

....and in case why anyone is wondering why I took the 457 route first. It's simply because of the ways the sponsorship rules work here. I was employed by another local subsidiary as CEO and not directly with the Corporate Group. The Corporate Group opened the Australian office and not the other subsidiary. Sponsorship rules here would have allowed the Corporate Company to sponsor a foreign employee but as I wasn't employed by them, the sponsorship had to be done by the Australian company. The Australian Company was brand new and you can't sponsor a Direct Entry 186 within the first 12 months of business as you need a full year of accounts first. 457 was the only route for me to be sponsored and employed by the Australian Company. Even then, my 457 was only valid for 18 months because we were under 1 year old with the guidance that when renewed, it would be for the full 4 years, thus removing the need for direct entry and PR visa the transition route.

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, this is exactly my situation. I was offered the chance to relocate to Aus with my family to open and operate a local company in line with our global strategy and corporate practices. I'm actually under quite strict internal guidelines to employ only local people because as a group, we tend to enter a market and invest in the local community etc.. It's actually very common for overseas companies to do this in any country. It's unlikely that you will find a local person with the background knowledge and more importantly, level of trust, these corporate groups look for to head up the business. That's why they look internally first for the main role. I'd been relocated 8 years ago by the same company to do exactly the same thing. The difference was, the city I was in was hell so I jumped at this chance and even took a bit of a cut in my relocation package on condition I wouldn't be moved again so we sold up and moved here based on the previous conditions of being able to transition over time into PR and more. This is now the first stable place we've called 'home' for a very long time. I know I'm waffling a bit but the points made here about the way global companies work at a high level are exactly valid. I'm not talking MacDonalds and KFC but industrial foreign businesses with specialist technologies invest heavily into any country when opening a local company. There is a transition period where they may bring in overseas workers to train up local people but then the local business becomes self sufficient. I did exactly that. I employed 8 local Australians, including 2 graduates whilst still at university, brought 2 foreign engineers over from Europe for 6 months each to train my local staff in skills that were not available in Australia and then sent them back. Now I have a very efficient team that I manage. The business is growing rapidly and I'm even looking to expand the team further and open another satellite office in Queensland and Perth with local staff. I did that. My skills, my knowledge gained over the past 25 years but because it was over that time period, I'm now 46. Now though, it seems that level of skill set is not considered as needed for the long term in Australia and what they want is for people like me to come here, do this for 2 - 4 years and then leave and not be rewarded by the chance of PR. It's true that at this age, anyone who has moved around like this would now be looking forward towards how and where they would potentially retire. I'm not trying to create a stereotype but generally, people my age and in this level of position are not 'poor' to an extend we would be a drain on society. Think about this.. I actually have a long term strategic plan in place already for elevating my current younger staff up to a level that maybe they will take over from me in 10 - 12 years time. Thus, the cycle becomes complete and the company is fully 100% Australia and I am rewarded by being able to settle in a nice country. Why can't I be rewarded by Australia by doing this? I'm pushing forward now with the direct entry 186 before the new age limits come in next April. I think Australia has it's faults like anywhere else but in general, it is a fantastic place to live and bring up children. It's like that because of the complete multi-cultural skill set. Australia is a hell of a long way away from anywhere else though in travel times. Once these new practices come into effect fully, I really can't see many middle aged, experienced senior level people wanting to up root their families and come such a long way for such a short period and nobody is going to come all this way without their families having to face lengthy time away from the business for visiting 'home' Sorry.. rant over ;-)

OK I've got my plan B and am a 'bit' more relaxed now. Spoke to immigration directly (after a 2 hour call back) and also to my MA. Both recommended the same thing to apply now for renewing my 457 and simultaneously apply for the 186 through direct entry. Worst case is that the 457 gets renewed and the 186 rejected, in which case I have banked a further 2 years, during which time both said a lot could still change. Best case the 186 gets accepted. Whilst the immigration directly won't comment on the merits of any potential application, they did confirm that 2 separate applications can be submitted at the same time and if the 457 was renewed and 186 rejected, the rejection would not cancel the 457 but it's approval would supersede it. Based on the fact I've already had my skill assessment approved for my original 457 application and the 186 is identical, the agent said there should be no issues. Both said it comes down to whether I'm prepared to double up on the application fees with a risk one gets approved very shortly after the other, in which case I may question it's worth. To me, its worth it so I'm now moving forward with that route. Interestingly though, I asked Immigration about the need for the off shore renewal of the 457 if it came to it further down the line. He wasn't absolutely clear but suggested this wouldn't mean I would have to leave completely. Just be offshore to submit the next renewal application (like currently a 600 visitor visa can only be applied for offshore). If I wanted to submit that offshore approval say 2 months before any valid one expired, I'd leave, submit it and then return under the current live one and simply get a bridging visa to remain here whilst it's in progress. The suggestion originally was that any offshore renewal application would mean leaving and staying away whilst it's assessed. That's maybe not the case and it's only for the actual submission. An application submission does not cancel out an existing live visa and a bridging visa is issued that comes into effect when the live one expires until the new one is either approved or rejected. Bit happier now and clearer on my situation ;-)

No. I am the only 457, sponsored by the company in the CEO position. My policy is to employ only Australians, which I do. That may be technically 'racist' but the conditions of the Company Sponsorship are to employ Australian citizens or Permanent Residents, provide investment into their training as a percentage of annual payroll etc Also, it's our internal policies to ensure the local offices are supported by local people. I'm personally a big supporter of developing young people so (through the company) I've invested in sponsoring local universities, taken on 2 young graduates (before they finished their studies) to develop into Engineers in our field, employed a number of other people who have all been on training courses here plus have all been sent back to Europe for company internal training. We are a large but specialist technology company (Group) that open local subsidiaries around the world to support the market, develop local staff etc. The only non-Australian in the company is me. I'm looking at the direct entry sponsorship now though. It seems that is still a possibility to get the Group to sponsor me for a 186 visa now rather than go via the transition scheme as I do meet the criteria.

Adding onto my earlier post and reading through all the info on the Border website, I think I'm screwed now. 111111 CEO/Managing Director is on the combined list but not the medium term list. That means I can only apply for a maximum of 2 years upon renewal going through now. Then, I can potentially renew again on shore once only. However, any plans for PR look like their out the window. The eligibility period is extending to 3 years. Even if it remained at 2 for now, my 2 year point is April 2018. From March 2018, any applicant for PR must be of a maximum age of 45, by which time I'll be 47. Also, against the 111111 code there are 3 asterisks with a description that says 'Caveats apply to certain occupations on these lists which exclude use of the occupation in certain circumstances for the Temporary Work (Skilled) visa (subclass 457) programme. Caveats are indicated via ‘*** asterisks’.' It doesn't give any other detail what these caveats are so either I'm going to be able to get it renewed and then best case scenario, once more (unless they count this renewal now as my only onshore one) or I will be leaving in October when my current visa runs out. I can't get any info from my MA about this. I'm so concerned. Only bought a house last year, daughter going to school, everything planned forward for the long term and it looks like its all going to be pulled out from under us. The Corporate Group relocated me here to open up and run a local company because I have successfully done it in other countries, which I'm doing. I employ and train Australians, I pay my taxes both personally and in the company. I am a genuine case however with this age reduction, I honestly do not know what to do now