Need to Stop Paying my Credit Cards in the UK - Will I get away with it ?

[hmsmark]

I am sure scotinoz is going to become your new best buddy with advice like that. Anyway like previous posters have said just because some banks that may have nothing to do with any dealings you yourself may have had appear to be dodgy that does not give you yourself the right to steal 40k, imagine if everyone had the same morals? Also migrating to Australia for the vast majority is an expensive business which takes years of thinking about, planning and saving every penny, i think your comment would be vastly insulting to all those that have scrimped and saved to move over when maybe they should have just stolen it moved and left the consequences back home.

Also along with your wonderful advice you fail to mention the consequences of the op's actions should he wish to return to England as he has already stated that his wife is not yet settled, where would he stand there?

 

I have owned rental properties and have lost money due to others' bankruptcy/default in the US. However, this is a business decision that they had to make. Likely, they didn't have the money to pay me. Likewise, it was a business decision when I evicted them. I can't waste the time or effort getting mad a them or making it personal.

 

Like I said, I don't have any unsecured debt, so this isn't something I need to do, plus I have some US assets that I don't want to lose. However, you need to make decisions that are the best business decisions for you and your family.

 

If someone takes my comment as insulting, oh well... It has nothing to do with an individual saving to go to Australia. If you can get out of paying 40k scott-free, it sounds pretty smart, doesn't it? Again, I don't know if he will get off completely free, but it is probably worth a call and a fee to a lawyer. Likewise, if you could have made it to Oz without skrimping and saving, well, that sounds pretty smart too doesn't it?

 

Don't be mad because you are unwilling to and possibly a bit jealous of his ability to do what you can't/won't/didn't think of...

[chalkyhill]

Don't be mad because you are unwilling to and possibly a bit jealous of his ability to do what you can't/won't/didn't think of...

 

I could become a drug dealer - Just because I can, doesn't mean I need to.

 

Whilst we are maturing we realise that we don't have to follow our base instincts.

 

I also think your are confusing personal and business decisions. If I decide to default on my credit card debt its a personal decision not a business decision.

[hmsmark]

OMG an explanation of the GFC in one post!!!!:chatterbox: No wonder the worlds gone **** up!

 

No, the GFC was created by banks giving credit away. I live in the US. I have seen first hand what banks did to engineer the crisis. They gave $300,000 mortgages to people making $20k per year. This is not an exaggeration! So, of course these people couldn't make the payments, and boom, foreclosure crisis which imploded the world economy.

 

Unless the OP makes a half-million a year, he probably shouldn't have been given the opportunity to end up 40k in debt. However, banks around the world have continued to offer credit like it is free money.

 

Now, many of you have taken this opportunity to chastise the OP. You called him a thief, a liar, you accused him of crimes without grounds (defaulting on debt is never considered theft and given the facts in this case, it is not fraud). You have that right.

 

However, he was looking for advice in regards to protecting his assets and eliminating his debt. Businesses and wealthy people do this all the time, and I think individuals of modest means should be able to seek the same protections, such as bankruptcy, moving assets overseas, etc. Most of the world's major banks have branches/affiliates in the Grand Caymans for a reason! And, I'll give you a hint, it is not for the weather and sandy beaches. It's for the corporations and the wealthy people who own/run the corporations to hide money. You think rich people have Swiss bank accounts because they like getting bank statements in 4 languages? Nope...

 

He should talk to a lawyer and do what is best for him, not for the banks.

[Guest Guest31881]

defaulting on debt is never considered theft and given the facts in this case, it is not fraud.

 

You are correct defaulting on a loan is not a crime, However knowingly spending on your credit card knowing that you will not pay them back is classed as fraud, perhaps in the USA you would not see it that way or you have a different set of morals to us,, but there is a difference in defaulting on a loan, and deliberately extending that loan knowing that you have no intention of paying it back.

[Guest truebeliver]

hi scot, jeeeeez youve stirred up some strong opinions on this one havent you lol im a bit mixed myself, i do think that you wracked up the debt which is huge, and i honestly dont know how you sleep with that much debt hanging over you, to credit card companys aswell :eek: so therefore you should at least feel some sort of responsibility to paying them back (i know i would) simply because youve spent it!!! with regards to your house you just know they are going to be on it like bees to honey.

 

however i do understand why youve asked the question and i personally dont think any less of you for asking it

 

dawn x

[Guest Guest31881]

But who said anything about deliberately defaulting?y.

 

Have you read the thread? The OP has the money to repay the loans from the sale of his house in the UK. he is not doing that, he intends to default on the loans, Loans that he has extended since arriving in Australia. That is a deliberate act to default and not repay.

 

I have every sympathy with anyone who has found themselves in a difficult situation and has arrived in Australia and perhaps leaving debts behind them. But the OP has not done that, he has deliberately extended his debt and even though he could pay it back he has decided not to.

 

Oh and if being 'Proper British"means I have morals and scruples, then i am proud to say I am a "proper Brit".

[hmsmark]

You are correct defaulting on a loan is not a crime, However knowingly spending on your credit card knowing that you will not pay them back is classed as fraud, perhaps in the USA you would not see it that way or you have a different set of morals to us,, but there is a difference in defaulting on a loan, and deliberately extending that loan knowing that you have no intention of paying it back.

 

This is not a US vs. UK thing. My parents are British. I'm a British Citizen, as well as a US citizen. I grew up in America. There are many Americans who feel the way you do. Both the US and UK are capitalist, corporatist societies. If you keep getting upset every time you hear about a big bonus going to an executive of a company that slashed thousands of workers, or the wealthy stashing their money in tax havens, then I agree with you. However, this isn't going to change.

 

So, play by the rules the way they are written. Donald Trump, a wealthy US business tycoon, has run several companies into bankruptcy because it was the smart business decision. You need to handle your personal finances the way the winners in business handle theirs'.

 

As far as the fraud thing, the OP did have the intention of paying back the debt. He has made minimum payments for years. He is only now considering not paying. I don't think they have a case. I'm not a UK lawyer. He should contact one. He should not listen to admonisment on the internet.

[hmsmark]

I could become a drug dealer - Just because I can, doesn't mean I need to.

 

Whilst we are maturing we realise that we don't have to follow our base instincts.

 

I also think your are confusing personal and business decisions. If I decide to default on my credit card debt its a personal decision not a business decision.

 

Assuming you mean a "drug dealer" who sells illegal drugs (and not a salesman for big pharma), that would be a crime. Though I know you are convinced that this would be fraud, I don't believe it is. He has paid on the debt up until now and is only now considering defaulting. As long as he doesn't continue to rack up debt with the intention of defaulting, I don't believe that constitutes fraud. This would be matter for a lawyer and courts to decide and it is unlikely to get to that point.

 

Making financial decisions are business decisions. If you prefer to call it a personal decision about buisness, fine. However, matters of debt are most certainly business decisions. You need not be a corporation to make them. We all do business. Selling your home, purchasing..., well, anything, and paying debt are all business decisions. If you've ever sold a home, you have likely had to negotiate with a buyer. From the buyer's point of view, you are being greedy and costing them money if you demand a higher price than their first offer, but you need to make the business decision that is best for you and your family. If that means passing on their offer and selling to someone else, or demanding a higher offer, then so be it.

 

Sometimes business decisions put people out of work, sometimes people lose money (like when my renters stop paying), and sometimes you stop paying on debt. If you can't live with causing those results, then don't do business that way. However, don't hate those who do business another way (and are possibly more successful because of it).

 

No one ever said capitalism was fair...

[chalkyhill]

No worries.

 

If I make the decision to not pay rent - that is a personal decision, not a business decision.

 

If I choose not to pay my credit card - that is a personal decision, not a business decision.

 

It is a business decision, you are are set up as a business. Are all your occupants corporate entities? Do you make sure they are registered businesses prior to setting a lease?

 

It must also be noted that companies do not just default constantly, companies who default would very quickly lose customers and suppliers.

Edited March 19, 2012 by chalkyhill

[Guest Guest16631]

...........voluntary default...........wether by an individual or even a country ...............eventually erodes the trust needed to hold society together..............ethical callousness of breaking ones word has a ricochet effect on others........we have become a consumer society...........wether we can afford it or not................but eventually the piper must be paid..........in this generation or the next.......

[Guest truebeliver]

i have to say i feel a bit for hmsmark, hes just giving scott the info/advice that he asked for

it might not be what you all want to hear but none the less its scotts life and if he can live with himself then who are we/you to judge, hmsmark obvs has a business/financial background and like it or not hes trying to help scott as im sure you all are but each to there own

 

dawn x

[hmsmark]

No worries.

 

If I make the decision to not pay rent - that is a personal decision, not a business decision.

 

If I choose not to pay my credit card - that is a personal decision, not a business decision.

 

It is a business decision, you are are set up as a business. Are all your occupants corporate entities? Do you make sure they are registered businesses prior to setting a lease?

 

It must also be noted that companies do not just default constantly, companies who default would very quickly lose customers and suppliers.

 

You conduct business everyday. You buy food, entertainment, clothing, maintain bank accounts, pay various bills, etc. This is business. You do not have to be registered or incorporated to do so. If you negotiate the price of a product down to a price you feel comfortable with another individual, you are, in a sense, taking money out of his pocket. I used the example of a home, but this could be a car, or a carton of milk. However, you make the decision that you feel makes the most business sense for your personal, finanacial situation. There is no reason to personally attack someone for making a business decision anymore than there is a reason for someone to attack you personally for making a low-ball offer on their home or automobile.

 

My renters who don't pay rent are doing business with me. It is unlikely they are a registered business, but it still is business.

 

Obviously companies don't default constantly. Neither does the OP. He is looking at the situation strategically and trying to make the best business decision for his personal financial situation. I wish him well in whatever he decides.

[AJ]

I wouldnt call it making a business decision - I would call it being a greedy Bas*ard!

[TheGrahams]

I just do not understand it! I have not read through all the pages of this thread, and I am unsure if the OP is even still reading, BUT I really didn't realise that some people were just that dishonest, well yeah of course I did, but...... I am actually speechless!

 

I have no debt whatsoever, me and my family live in rented accomodation here in the UK and will in Aus, we scrape together the money each month to survive and we KNOW that will be the same in Aus. But we SAVE for what we want in life and don't get it till we can buy it with our own money, that means going without a lot of the time, but we have NO DEBT! and this is what we are teaching our children. It really is no wonder the economy is so messed up with people just borrowing such large amounts, refusing to pay it back and even having the cheek to say its only a small amount.

 

I have been feeling bad because I was wondering if I could maybe get away with missing a month or two water payments!

 

Maybe I am old fashioned to think you need to have money before you buy something, but at 34 with no debts I am feeling rather happy! Or maybe I am just not greedy!

[Guest truebeliver]

to the grahams, i am in exactly the same position as you, i rent my home and i have zero debt and i too save for the things i want

as i said earlier i do not know how scott sleeps at night with all that debt or how he can purchase things on a card without thinking about how hes going to pay it all off

 

however if he can live with himself then who are we to judge

maybe im wrong but i reckon if it was say 1k nobody would be hitting the roof about it, personally if i could leave 1k debt behind i would (ooooooooh shock horror!)

its the sheer ammount of the debt that i find hard to relate too

 

dawn x

Edited March 19, 2012 by truebeliver

[Kimanda]

I just do not understand it! I have not read through all the pages of this thread, and I am unsure if the OP is even still reading, BUT I really didn't realise that some people were just that dishonest, well yeah of course I did, but...... I am actually speechless!

 

I have no debt whatsoever, me and my family live in rented accomodation here in the UK and will in Aus, we scrape together the money each month to survive and we KNOW that will be the same in Aus. But we SAVE for what we want in life and don't get it till we can buy it with our own money, that means going without a lot of the time, but we have NO DEBT! and this is what we are teaching our children. It really is no wonder the economy is so messed up with people just borrowing such large amounts, refusing to pay it back and even having the cheek to say its only a small amount.

 

I have been feeling bad because I was wondering if I could maybe get away with missing a month or two water payments!

 

Maybe I am old fashioned to think you need to have money before you buy something, but at 34 with no debts I am feeling rather happy! Or maybe I am just not greedy!

 

I don't think it's a matter of greed, I think most ppl get sucked into living the 'high life', competing with friends, neighbours, colleagues etc.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Has he paid them Hoff yet. Lol

[AJ]

I don't think it's a matter of greed, I think most ppl get sucked into living the 'high life', competing with friends, neighbours, colleagues etc.

 

I wouldnt say most people. I certainly dont act like this, neither do my friends. I accept people for who they are not what they have. Try saying greed superficial people instead of most and you would be more correct!

[DaveS]

I would negotiate with the creditors if I couldn't afford to pay it back. I imagine if you run from it you will be in a similar position again at some point in the future.

 

Can totally appreciate how tempting it is though..

[hmsmark]

I wouldnt call it making a business decision - I would call it being a greedy Bas*ard!

 

...and you are mistaken if you believe there is one bit of difference between the two.

 

As the master said: .."Greed...., is good!"

[Guest truebeliver]

aj, you really cant say that everyone who would leave debt behind are greedy! im not a greedy person me and my oh work for everything weve got but at the end of the day if i had a 1k credit card debt and i was paying £50 a month off that debt in the uk, and i was emigrating to oz and there was no way of bieng held responsible for that debt then i wouldnt think twice about leaving it behind

i would be £50 a month better off! with no repercussions its a no brainer in my opinion!

 

dawn x

[Guest Andy]

I have owned rental properties and have lost money due to others' bankruptcy/default in the US. However, this is a business decision that they had to make. Likely, they didn't have the money to pay me. Likewise, it was a business decision when I evicted them. I can't waste the time or effort getting mad a them or making it personal.

 

Like I said, I don't have any unsecured debt, so this isn't something I need to do, plus I have some US assets that I don't want to lose. However, you need to make decisions that are the best business decisions for you and your family.

 

If someone takes my comment as insulting, oh well... It has nothing to do with an individual saving to go to Australia. If you can get out of paying 40k scott-free, it sounds pretty smart, doesn't it? Again, I don't know if he will get off completely free, but it is probably worth a call and a fee to a lawyer. Likewise, if you could have made it to Oz without skrimping and saving, well, that sounds pretty smart too doesn't it?

 

Don't be mad because you are unwilling to and possibly a bit jealous of his ability to do what you can't/won't/didn't think of...

 

I will tell you something, i am absolutely not in any way shape or form jealous of what the op is suggesting, being jealous of somebody thinking of stealing 40k and letting others deal with the consequences would really be quite sad, and also i would rather go to oz based on the fact that i may have scrimped and saved to do it rather than steal the money to get there.

[Guest Andy]

aj, you really cant say that everyone who would leave debt behind are greedy! im not a greedy person me and my oh work for everything weve got but at the end of the day if i had a 1k credit card debt and i was paying £50 a month off that debt in the uk, and i was emigrating to oz and there was no way of bieng held responsible for that debt then i wouldnt think twice about leaving it behind

i would be £50 a month better off! with no repercussions its a no brainer in my opinion!

 

dawn x

Yes but you entered into an agreement when you borrowed that money that you would pay it back, if you can do it when you leave Britain then you can do it when/if you left oz and if the aussie immigration knew that then they may have thought twice about giving you a visa, in fact i think it would be a no brainer for them.

[Guest truebeliver]

i see what youre saying but they wouldnt know i was leaving debt behind until id left! and i would allready have my visa!

my point was, i would if there were no repercussions to it, call me what you like but i bet there are tons of people reading this thread agreeing with me

[Kimanda]

I wouldnt say most people. I certainly dont act like this, neither do my friends. I accept people for who they are not what they have. Try saying greed superficial people instead of most and you would be more correct!

 

Ok, maybe not 'most people' but I still think that ALOT of people get caught up in this lifestyle. every day we are bombarded by advertisements, offers for credit, shiny ne things. iPods, iPhones, contracts and other things, advertising is a big business and I think it does play a huge part in sucking ppl into debt. Advertisements/marketing agencies are doing their best to get your (hard earned) cash and if it isnt "hard earned" its gonna be on credit.

 

Im pretty sure that you've been a 'victim' of this, some others just go a little crayzzeee with it.....

 

If you havent, then...well....i wanna say 'good for you' but I dont want it to come cross as sarcastic or anything.