Freckleface Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This is so sad in so many ways and on so many different levels. AN American soldier was being interrogated today after opening fire on civilians in southern Afghanistan, killing at least 16, including children, in an attack described by Afghan president Hamid Karzai as "unforgivable." Nine children and three women were among the dead, Mr Karzai said. The shooter was an Army staff sergeant based out of the Fort Lewis-McChord joint base in Washington state, senior US officials told FOX News Channel. In an interview on ABC News, Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby added that the solder is married with two children and was on his first mission in Afghanistan. He is being interrogated, Mr Kirby said. According to The Wall Street Journal, the soldier left his base in the Panjway district of Kandahar province and walked about a mile to a nearby village, where he went on a house-to-house rampage during the early hours of Sunday morning local time. A joint Afghan-coalition investigation is underway into the shooting, and it remains unclear what the shooter's motives were or whether he had previous contact with his victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OMG this is so sad, like you say - on more levels than one! Not only for the victims, but this guy must have been in a very poor state of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 OMG this is so sad, like you say - on more levels than one! Not only for the victims, but this guy must have been in a very poor state of mind. I think it is a horrible tragedy for everyone involved. It remains unclear as to why he did it but if it was due to his mental state I can't help wondering if he will be given help or if they will be too busy making an example of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Makes you wonder why the Teleban don't just sit it out and bide their time, the Yanks would go home sooner then rather than later and so would our brilliant brave soldiers, while the risk of attacks is still high, the Yanks will stay put in some Form or other. As for the awful tragic deaths of innocent civilians, thats what happens in these stupid conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I feel for all involved in this tragedy, am I surprised, no which is the sad thing. I often wonder how troops are "really" coping going into a country where most people do not like them, a war that is unpopular with the world, a war that has been tried many times in the past and always failed, so losing so many lives civilian and military for me is a complete waste of human life. We are never going to drag the country into the 21st century with so much opposition. Says he had a brain injury at some stage and I wonder what he was doing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Awful for everyone, tragic that anyone would be compelled (by circumstances/mental/emotional state etc) to do this and appalling for the families left grieving on all sides. Retribution after retribution, horrific.............:no: :em4600: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggers68 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think it is a horrible tragedy for everyone involved. It remains unclear as to why he did it but if it was due to his mental state I can't help wondering if he will be given help or if they will be too busy making an example of him. The problem is he will probably be made an example of due to the sensitivity of the whole Afghan situation. This guy will probably be suffering from PTSD and will need treatment but i'm afraid the Yanks are not always sympathetic in cases like this. My heart goes out to the parents of the children and i understand what the soldier has gone through, afghan is not a nice place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The problem is he will probably be made an example of due to the sensitivity of the whole Afghan situation. This guy will probably be suffering from PTSD and will need treatment but i'm afraid the Yanks are not always sympathetic in cases like this. My heart goes out to the parents of the children and i understand what the soldier has gone through, afghan is not a nice place. I was shocked today to read that they may consider the Death Penalty :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus1 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The problem is he will probably be made an example of due to the sensitivity of the whole Afghan situation. This guy will probably be suffering from PTSD and will need treatment but i'm afraid the Yanks are not always sympathetic in cases like this. Do you think he will be made an example of? You only have to look at Haditha in Iraq - 24 civilians (men, women & children, aged 2 and upwards) shot dead by US Marines and the harshest punishment handed out was to Sgt Frank Wuterich, who was given a general discharge under honourable conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was shocked today to read that they may consider the Death Penalty :no: Making 'an example' of him is kind of against the whole point of the legal system, hopefully that won't be the case. I don't agree with the death penalty but he should be tried in a court just like anyone else. If he was suffering mental health issues then that should all be taken into account. But he killed 16 innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maruska Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Making 'an example' of him is kind of against the whole point of the legal system, hopefully that won't be the case. I don't agree with the death penalty but he should be tried in a court just like anyone else. If he was suffering mental health issues then that should all be taken into account. But he killed 16 innocent people. I could not agree more. OK it`s tough out there but he knew that he might be sent to a combat when he signed up with the army. Mental issues should be considered just like they are with any other criminal. I don`t think he will get a death penalty based on previously mentioned mental state. However I DO hope he will be severely punished for what he did, these victims , most of them women and kids , were defenceless against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Making 'an example' of him is kind of against the whole point of the legal system, hopefully that won't be the case. I don't agree with the death penalty but he should be tried in a court just like anyone else. If he was suffering mental health issues then that should all be taken into account. But he killed 16 innocent people. I absolutely agree he should be held accountable for his actions (not the death penalty). What worries me is - did he even know what he was doing was wrong? War does terrible things to people's heads and the US doesn't have a good track record in picking up the warning signs that a soldier is about to crack. Is this soldier as much a victim in all this as those poor people who lost their lives. I don't know the answers (obviously) but I think questions need to be asked about how this soldiers mental state went unnoticed. The whole situation just makes me feel sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 OK it`s tough out there but he knew that he might be sent to a combat when he signed up with the army. Yes he did know. What he had no way of knowing is how four tours would impact his mental state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I absolutely agree he should be held accountable for his actions (not the death penalty). What worries me is - did he even know what he was doing was wrong? War does terrible things to people's heads and the US doesn't have a good track record in picking up the warning signs that a soldier is about to crack. Is this soldier as much a victim in all this as those poor people who lost their lives. I don't know the answers (obviously) but I think questions need to be asked about how this soldiers mental state went unnoticed. The whole situation just makes me feel sick. no, they're dead, he's not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 no, they're dead, he's not True, but I think this form of measure is a bit one dimensional for a complex situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 no, they're dead, he's not Unless they do go with the death penalty. I understand he should be held accountable, however, I also realise that it isn't just black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest57588 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I absolutely agree he should be held accountable for his actions (not the death penalty). What worries me is - did he even know what he was doing was wrong? War does terrible things to people's heads and the US doesn't have a good track record in picking up the warning signs that a soldier is about to crack. Is this soldier as much a victim in all this as those poor people who lost their lives. I don't know the answers (obviously) but I think questions need to be asked about how this soldiers mental state went unnoticed. The whole situation just makes me feel sick. Eh?. Seriously?. They've lost their lives, the most he'll lose is his liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Eh?. Seriously?. They've lost their lives, the most he'll lose is his liberty. I think he has probably already lost a great deal more than that. I am in no way defending what he did but a soldier who has been broken serving his country, in my opinion, is entitled to expect at least an attemp at understanding from those of us sitting in our lounge rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Eh?. Seriously?. They've lost their lives, the most he'll lose is his liberty. Maybe you should go out there and fight for a few years, I've had family over there and it is a very stressful time. NO one is condoning what he has done, it is outrageous , there are poor innocent children, families etc caught up in all this, but it's hard to judge someone when you haven't lived through what they have. Now if it had been a planned killing and he was medically fit then I would be one of those shouting for the death sentence, but none of us know the ins and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest57588 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Unless they do go with the death penalty. I understand he should be held accountable, however, I also realise that it isn't just black and white. I would hope that it wouldn't mean the death penalty, but rather him spending the rest of his life in prison or a secure hospital. Whilst there might be a certain amount of sympathy for him in light of the stresses that his job has put him under, that really can't be offered up in mitigation against the loss of so many innocent lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest57588 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Maybe you should go out there and fight for a few years, I've had family over there and it is a very stressful time. NO one is condoning what he has done, it is outrageous , there are poor innocent children, families etc caught up in all this, but it's hard to judge someone when you haven't lived through what they have. Now if it had been a planned killing and he was medically fit then I would be one of those shouting for the death sentence, but none of us know the ins and out. Isn't that what juries do every day though Kate?. They weigh up evidence and reach a verdict. It's not a moral judgement, it's a legal one. I'm not one of the hang 'em/ flog 'em brigade either, but in a fair and just society (which I guess allied soldiers are trying to implement in Afghanistan) the victims and their families deserve justice, and wider society needs to be kept safe. Besides, justice has to be seen to be done, or else the principles those soldiers are fighting for get undermined and become meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I would hope that it wouldn't mean the death penalty, but rather him spending the rest of his life in prison or a secure hospital. Whilst there might be a certain amount of sympathy for him in light of the stresses that his job has put him under, that really can't be offered up in mitigation against the loss of so many innocent lives. Why not? the 2 bastards who started this dam war (blair & bush) are responsible for thousands of murders and they've not even been arrested! what are their mitigating circumstances I wonder:unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Isn't that what juries do every day though Kate?. They weigh up evidence and reach a verdict. It's not a moral judgement, it's a legal one. . Exactly and they should be the ones saying what happens to him, not us, we don't know the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggers68 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Until you have been to a place like that and experienced what soldiers go through you really can't comment. Sitting at home with all your comforts and living life to the full is all well and good, try being shot at everyday and not knowing if your next step is your last one as it may be an IED. Those sorts of pressure break the strongest of men, believe me i have seen it. What he did was terrible and one that evokes anger and disbelief, but believe me he will probably be suffering from PTSD and the fault is with the authority and his chain of command for not spoting the change in him, if they had this would never of happened. Remember before you cast your opions there is always two sides to a story and the press always paints the one that sells papers and makes for better news in their eyes. RIP the women and children our thoughts are with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKA63029 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The trouble is he will be tried (military or civil) in a court that is hopefully full of sane and rational human beings, our justice system isn't perfect but it is still good. But can a sane and rational human being 'interpret' what may have triggered off such an action? It's the same as any crime that 'may' have involved mental breakdown. Battered wife syndrome, crimes of passion, men and women who have been abuse for years and 'retaliate', so many crimes involve a degree of mental instability, where if circumstance had been different many of these people would have NEVER acted in the way they did. I'm not saying that mental breakdown can be used as an excuse in all crimes, but certain ones, yes. The biggest shame is that whilst 'some' of these breakdowns are ongoing for some, many soon become what we would class as sane again, the crimes they committed were and are a one off due to intolerable experiences. 'If' it was a one off does he deserve to be punished for the rest of his life? I only say this as a personal perspective, many years ago I would have murdered someone I knew very well given the opportunity, BUT. I full admit I was a little unstable at the time, now, I wouldn't dream of dong such a thing, but at the time the experiences I went through because of this person made me a little do lally is all. 'If' I had reacted in a negative way (and believe me it came close) would I deserve to be locked up for life or for a sustained period of time. Some will say yes, and others will say no, but all I know given the right circumstance I would have done the unthinkable to the person involved but was lucky that I had some people in my life at that time that 'saw' I was at breaking point and took me 'out' of the situation, OK, it involved a rubber room, but at least it worked.:laugh: I'm not defending what he did, far from it, but (and I hate this bloody expression) 'Until you have walked in someone's shoes, blah, blah, blah'. Cheers Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.