Immigration philosophy

[ducktape]

I m not a big poster here but I do read from time to time, it is a very helpful website loads of useful info. But I have to say I do sometimes find it disappointing, some peoples attitude to moving abroad seems odd, almost one of entitlement, I ‘ve paid my money where’s my visa, I’ve paid my money and moved here why isn’t Australia playing the game of life the way I want it too?

 

The attitude you approach emigrating with will either make or break the success of your move. In my opinion this attitude doesn’t start when you arrive but when you start filling out all the paperwork, passing skills tests, etc, etc. If you start this process thinking ‘why do I have to prove myself, I’ve been doing X for years and I m great’, then you have to look inside yourself and ask is this right for me?

 

Your changing your life in more ways than you can image, do you want people to fit around you or are you prepared to integrate and immerse yourself in another countries culture.

 

Sure be proud of your roots, be proud of who you are. But be humble enough to understand you are starting from scratch; you need to prove yourself all over again.

 

I took this process on with a migration company because I felt that suited me, I was told the process would take somewhere between 18 – 36 months, because changes were happening, you all know about the changes and waiting last year!!!

 

Since there was nothing I could do I accepted it and begun the process, so trade assessment being the first hurdle. My agent sent me what I needed to do, I read the info and within a couple of days compiled the evidence and sent it back. He called me the next day and said to me ‘you read the documents, no one reads the documents, it usually takes a couple of months to get all this info’. He sent this all off and within a week maybe two, I had an interview, the guy who interviewed me was brilliant, we chatted for 2 hours, he finished the interview stopped recording and then spent the next hour chatting, so much so he gave me his private contact details and to contact him closer to my arrival and he wants to help me with finding work, introduce me to contacts and even suggested I come round for a barbie!!!

 

So onto sponsorship and the dreaded smp lists well we all know about that wait but we got there in the end, sponsorship sorted now for the diac application, I put it in and within a day or so they said we have a backlog we need 6 weeks and we’ll be back in touch, 6 weeks and 1 day later I had a case officer two days later request for meds and police checks, I sent off the meds and police checks and the very next day my visa was granted.

 

Total time 7 months from start to finish, I m not ready to move I was expecting 18 months at the earliest!!! I understand it can be a very different story for others and I do understand. However my philosophy from the outset was I want to comply, I want to integrate… I don’t understand why people get wound up by diac or trade assessment or state sponsorship. They give you an application form and a list of things you need to prove, provide this info and they process your application, if you kick and scream your way through the process, is this really the start want? I m not judging anyone but think about it.

 

Please think carefully those TV programmes which suggest you can buy a 250 sqm house with pool for a couple of hundred grand and you can take it easy with regards to work and you can stroll down the beach arm in arm. It’s a bit of a myth.

 

Your probably going to have to work harder than you ever had to integrate, to become established in work, to settle the kids, to make new friends, these things aren’t at the airport waiting to pick you up, you need to work at it your starting again.

 

You’re going to miss your family and friends, you’re going to miss anything your familiar with, you’re going to miss the UK. Own up to this reality and it will help, my sister burst into tears when I told her I got my visa, they were tears of happiness mixed with sadness knowing someday she’s going to miss me, this is healthy and normal let it happen cry if it helps don’t let it build up it’s all part of the process.

 

Some people settle better than others that’s just life, some people return their hopes and dreams dashed it wasn’t quite what they thought, some people return because of family and friends, the list is endless… we all have our own story.

 

I’ve have already started approaching companies and have been astounded by the positive responses, I m only putting out feelers but the advise and help they have offered a complete stranger still on the other side of the world has been amazing. I m not big on offering advice unless asked but if I was to give you one piece of advise when you’re talking to people firstly ask for their help and secondly tell them you really want to do things right and integrate in Australia you will be left nothing short of gob smacked by the offers of help. I was on the phone to a guy last night just enquiring about buying a van for work, we got chatting about all sorts of things unrelated to vans, he’s given me info on where to buy tools, where to buy materials, the difference between UK and Aus tradies. All the things I should look out for. He sent me an email which I got this morning with all his contact details including his home phone number, a couple of his mates contact details who are tradies, some tool shop names and numbers and he’s offered me 15% off any van I buy off him when I get there if I want. Oh and did I mention he said when I get there I should let him know and he’ll organise a Barbie and introduce me to some true blue Aussies! All this after a quick enquiry about vans.

 

I really want to do this, I really hope it works out, but I don’t know for sure I can only treat it as a big adventure and hope I land on my feet and settle. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture. I hope you all find your happiness wherever it may be; this is my little story of a new adventure beginning, if it helped in part or whole then great if it doesn’t ‘no worries’. Good luck with your adventure.

[Eddie2010]

Hear Hear ! A bit of Positive Mental Attitude , love it - needs more of it on this site ;0)

[Wonderingaloud]

I don't normally thank people but I really thought your post was spot on.

Cheers:smile:

[Guest rooperman]

Great post.

I have to say I agree with 99% of what you say, particularly about realising that moving to Australia means starting afresh and proving yourself all over again. I do think that emigrating to Oz is seen by many as a "magic bullet" to creating a perfect life (and certainly the media do nothing to dispell this myth). I think Australia is a country that has fantastic opportunites for many, but like anything good in life you have to work hard for it.

 

The one thing I would say is that you seem to have had a fairly straightforward visa application process - 7 months is very good. However, I think that many people started out with your level of optimism for the application process only for rules to change two or three times and leave some waiting without any timeframe for resolution other than "we will get to you when we have looked at everyone else". I agree that you should be prepared for a long wait, but the negative voices you may have heard on this forum are probably emotionally exhausted from having the goalposts moved.

 

I for one completely agree with Australia's commonsense immigration policy about only letting in those whose skills are clearly in demand, but DIAC's communication with those who have applications lodged could certainly be improved greatly. It is just unfortunate that the visa backlog is creating bad feeling.

 

Personally I applied 18 months ago, and am still not clear when/if my application will be looked at. I have continued to enjoy work, and life (planning holidays and triathlons/marathons for example) so that my life isn't defined by waiting for Australia. I think it is very important to maintain perspective in life - and everyone should remember that applying for a visa does not mean that you will definitely get one!

Thanks

[Guest Petal]

What a shame the UK is loosing someone with your attitude, but then again maybe that's why we're all here doing this...there aren't enough people with this mindset left.

[thewebweazel]

Ducktape I think that your case is unusual, and the fact that you are so confident seems to have greased the wheels for you making the whole process pretty much trouble free. Also if you didn't get the visa it seem that it would not be the end of the world for you. For me I feel that I will be very upset if I do not get the Visa in the end, as really feel that there is no future (Bearable) for me in the UK and I suppose that makes me pretty grumpy about the whole process. Its great that you can be so positive about the process it definitely has opened doors for you.

 

You are also correct about the TV programmes, the participants always seem to have loads of spare cash and the whole process seem to be so simplistic, like the only problem you are going to have is to make the decision to emigrate and which house you are going to buy! When I emigrated to the UK It took me 2 months to get a bank account!

 

I also take it that you have not yet arrived in OZ yet so you have not yet had any of the problems associated with moving to a new country, such as culture shock, hopefully your positive attitude well help you through! Good luck, its always good to hear a positive story, please post more of them when you get to Oz!

 

I for one completely agree with Australia's common sense immigration policy about only letting in those whose skills are clearly in demand

Thanks

 

The question is would you agree with the policy if your occupation was not on the list and you have no way of emigrating ?

[Guest rooperman]

The question is would you agree with the policy if your occupation was not on the list and you have no way of emigrating ?

 

Absolutely, if the other option was an open door immigration policy. And I say that as someone, who is not currently on the current skilled occupation list - cat4 with the possibility that I won't make it to Australia.

 

I am of course upset that my application is now at the bottom of the pile, however I still respect Australia's immigration policy. It is my opinion that they can be selective about who they decide to give a visa to in their country's best interest.

 

As i have said before though, they could certainly communicate their decisions much more transparently.

[gaz n family]

Another one who agrees with the majority of your comments. I keep getting told that we should expect Oz to be the same as the UK. I hope not, thats one of the attractions.

 

But i must disagree with comments about

I don’t understand why people get wound up by diac or trade assessment or state sponsorship. They give you an application form and a list of things you need to prove, provide this info and they process your application, if you kick and scream your way through the process, is this really the start want? I m not judging anyone but think about it.

 

 

Many individuals, including myself and others i know all submitted the requested paperwork, only to be asked for more, then more, then even requests for documents that do not exists and have not done so since 1988. Also its very dependant upon the individual Case Officers i have found, an old friend and collegue who is in the exact same position as myself did have to submit half the documents we were requested. So when you see threads and posts on this topic, its not always (and i would say most) the poster kicking and screaming, some are asking for advice, assistance or might even be sharing their experience so others dont get caught in the same situation.

[Jobo]

I began reading you post and thinking what a great positive attitude and agreed with many of the things you wrote...then i read this:-

 

However my philosophy from the outset was I want to comply, I want to integrate… I don’t understand why people get wound up by diac or trade assessment or state sponsorship. They give you an application form and a list of things you need to prove, provide this info and they process your application, if you kick and scream your way through the process, is this really the start want? I m not judging anyone but think about it.

 

Forgive me for reacting to this but i really think you don't have a clue what it has been like for many applicants and have no right to criticise what you cannot possibly understand! In my view, on the whole people who get wound up by DIAC/state sponsorship are willing to integrate and did meet the requirements of DIAC when they first started this process.

 

Have you forgotten about the thousands of applicants who, in good faith, made an application based on the rules, provided all the necessary documentation, paid the fees and waited patiently. Then Chris Evans decided to move the goalposts completely, put their applications on hold, moved the priority lists around and shattered the dreams of many.

 

After being messed around for nearly 2 years some poor applicants with state sponsorship then found their occupations to no longer be on the SMP and in the infinite realms of catagory 4, probably never to have their visa application processed.

 

These applicants have paid thousands, put their lives and their family's lives on hold and many are still none the wiser about whether they can get to Australia or not. They feel totally let down by a country who sought their skills a few years ago, lured them into the system and then spat them out when the government changed and they realised the immigration system was broken. Instead of honouring their side of the deal they left the applicants at the bottom of the list after taking their money- or worse cap and ceased their appliction.

 

I think you have been very fortunate not to have to go through this experience but please don't think you have had it this easy purely because of your positive attitude - many applicants are positive and they were let down.

 

I agree with many of your other comments about the attitude to migrating but please show some sensitivity to people in catagory 4 and those others (like myself) who have been up and down for 3 years because a minister changes his mind and imposes changes within hours, with no notice and no care for how people feel.

 

fortunately for us, our patience paid off and we now have a PR visa and migrate in May. I wish you all the best with your move when you make it.

 

Jo

[thewebweazel]

Absolutely, if the other option was an open door immigration policy. And I say that as someone, who is not currently on the current skilled occupation list - cat4 with the possibility that I won't make it to Australia.

 

At least your app is in! a real bummer to at the bottom of the pile though, I'll hold thumbs that it moves quickly for you!

[ducktape]

Wow I didn’t know what to expect by writing this but thanks very much for the comments.

 

Migration is a very hot subject these days I know and its such a big topic for debate… About 70% of my friends in London are migrants from other countries and they have given me so much experience and understanding about migrating, I don’t see my friends as foreigners, I see them as my friends and as one of my best mates said the other week (who is Hungarian), he feels complimented to have made such good ‘English’ friends because that makes him feel that he has successfully integrated. He talks about Hungary and he has educated me and our other friends on his homeland, a country he is proud to have come from. This is integration…

 

Several years ago when there was a huge migration of eastern Europeans in to London it was staggering the difference it made. I wasn’t happy about it, I was losing contracts because I had become too expense (even though my pricing had not changed) and others could do it cheaper. But these people were unskilled had no knowledge of quality… but too tar everyone with the same brush is wrong and this is the point at which it becomes tricky.

 

It’s not the migrants fault, it’s the policy makers for not creating a controlled environment in which migration can take place in a positive way. That’s why I really had no issue with performing skills tests and conforming to get my Australian visa.

 

I got an agent to handle my visa application to take away as much ‘hassle’, as possible and for me it was worth it every single penny, they know what they are doing (I know some may feel differently) they know how to present the info. I bet most of you know more about the process than I do. I’ve never even looked at the diac website or the master builders website who I qualified with.

 

It’s how you approach situations that make the difference, when I was talking with this guy at the car dealership last night he was explaining to me all about car registration, road worthy certificates and the like. Now I’ve owned cars in Australia before and already know each state has different rules, but rather than butting in and telling him, I let him educate me. He feels good he’s passing on his knowledge and after all I did ask for his help.

 

I am well aware of what it feels like to be waiting for that magic moment in your life, that significant moment that changes your life forever. It can feel like you can’t move forward till it happens and your just waiting. Whether it’s waiting for your visa or some other significant event. It can feel like it’s driving you mad!!!

 

Gaz n family I agree and in this sense I wrote it from my experience of the process; I was asked for X Y Z documents by diac, trade assessment or sponsorship, I provided the documents and that was OK, I realise others have different situations.

 

Jobo I have not forgotten chris evans moving the goal posts I to was caught in this situation when I applied for QLD sponsorship but I fortunately managed to change to SA sponsorship, I mean no disrespect to anyone and judging by the reaction of many my words have been taken positively as I intended.

 

Rooperman on the basis of your philosophy and respect for the system you should be granted a visa, I hope you get one soon.

 

Webweazel I agree with you, however getting my visa is actually more important than you can possibly image. I know we have all had our tuff moments in life mine was being made bankrupt on the 17th September 2009 at 2:30 pm a day I will never forget. The story whilst still very difficult for me has become much easier for me to talk about as time passes, it’s a complex story, but the short version is this;

 

I worked hard for around seven years building my business, at year five I caught the interest of some investors and for two years we worked on a plan for investment all I needed to do was meet their criteria. In September 2008 I got called to a meeting with these investors and this is what happened, they said to me we are not going to invest the 10 million pounds into your business that we have been discussing. We have been so impressed by your results we want to offer you 30 million, 10 million now and 20 million more in 5 years. This was just a staggering position to be in, a surreal position to be in.

 

In order to have got into this position I had had to work hard I also had some seed investors come in at an early stage and these bigger investors wanted them out, they offered them double their money, which was very generous. In November 2008 they pulled out because as you all know the world had financially fallen apart, what took place next was just catastrophic, I had 1 million pounds worth of work cancelled. One of my seed investors wanted his money doubled (which he was only entitled too if they invested), I couldn’t sell any of the properties being developed. It was carnage…

 

I was in court case after court case for the next 7 months either trying to get paid by clients who owed me money or fighting with suppliers who wanted their money or investors wanting out. It was in fact one of the investors that personally bankrupted me on a technicality. He even took me to court to try to reverse bankrupting me when he found out I had no money. He never got his money back but I paid all my debts, I sold my house to get the equity out to pay all my workers and the other investors.

 

I was ‘only’ made bankrupt for 6 months because the administrators and the judges ruling made it so… It hurt like hell considering I have never had a loan or debt in, every property I have developed has been done with a combination of investors and my money.

 

Today I m back on the tools, I have no bank account and about 5 grand in cash, I have had to move in with my mum and dad. I have had to start again from scratch. But I m not bitter, I was believe me. I will never understand how foolish and short-sighted this investor was if he had not done what he had done I wouldn’t be bankrupt and he would have got his money. But he got nasty the judge saw the situation plain and simple and brought an end to it.

 

Getting my visa is kind of the final part of my healing process, I have made my peace with the situation I was in and it’s time to start afresh. As I said before I really want to do this, I really hope it works out, but I don’t know for sure I can only treat it as a big adventure and hope I land on my feet and settle.

 

Once again my original post was not to inflame anyone or their situation I can’t cover every situation in the process and I m certainly not trying to convey a blasé attitude about getting my visa.

[Guest guest30085]

Thankyou for such a honest post.

 

I wish you every success on your new start down under.

[ducktape]

Thankyou for such a honest post.

 

I wish you every success on your new start down under.

 

thank you for taking the time to read my post, good luck on your journey too

[Guest GoldCoastMag]

Like others have said it is refreshing to read such a positive account.

 

Now I have migrated to a new country twice and much as I understand the "life on hold" feeling I think people in the middle of migration who live with their lives on hold, are losing out. Life is too short to live in limbo, just waiting for bureaucracy to slowly move.

 

It is what it is, stressing only causes harm to your health, so as far as possible enjoy where you are, do things that wont be possible once you move. Go and do things that you will have memories of, whether it is people or places.

 

It is normal to want to get on with the next phase, but some things can change in the blink of an eye, so try to enjoy the moment, and when your turn comes you will have the knowledge that you enjoyed the waiting time in your home country, and can start afresh when you move and try to integrate into a new and different culture in your new country.

[gaz n family]

Ducktape - Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

Also its very refreshing to read that dispite some not agreeing with certain parts of your OP and you have responded to these all is keep respectful and honest. It such a shame this is not my usual experience on here.....

[ducktape]

thanks gaz n family - words can be very emotive and this can be compounded when talking with strangers on forums.

[electrical guy]

Have you forgotten about the thousands of applicants who, in good faith, made an application based on the rules, provided all the necessary documentation, paid the fees and waited patiently. Then Chris Evans decided to move the goalposts completely, put their applications on hold, moved the priority lists around and shattered the dreams of many.

 

After being messed around for nearly 2 years some poor applicants with state sponsorship then found their occupations to no longer be on the SMP and in the infinite realms of catagory 4, probably never to have their visa application processed.

 

These applicants have paid thousands, put their lives and their family's lives on hold and many are still none the wiser about whether they can get to Australia or not. They feel totally let down by a country who sought their skills a few years ago, lured them into the system and then spat them out when the government changed and they realised the immigration system was broken. Instead of honouring their side of the deal they left the applicants at the bottom of the list after taking their money- or worse cap and ceased their appliction.

 

we can define it as DREADFUL REALITY OF OZ IMMIGRATION .nothing lawful and genuininty was shown by minister evil for only sake of power play. resistricting those valid and bona fide few thousand(4k) applicants by intruducing new retrospective legslative to capp and ceased them inspite of grant them visas after long and painful 3yrs. could that be forget by every applicant in whole life, of course not .sure all effected would have no good feeling for the person responsible for ruined their new future they were surefooted .for this they will always curse him and if they are true soul their prayer will never stillborn .and i believe GOD HAVE JUSTICE FOR ALL ,sooner or later.

[llessur]

we can define it as DREADFUL REALITY OF OZ IMMIGRATION .nothing lawful and genuininty was shown by minister evil for only sake of power play. resistricting those valid and bona fide few thousand(4k) applicants by intruducing new retrospective legslative to capp and ceased them inspite of grant them visas after long and painful 3yrs. could that be forget by every applicant in whole life, of course not .sure all effected would have no good feeling for the person responsible for ruined their new future they were surefooted .for this they will always curse him and if they are true soul their prayer will never stillborn .and i believe GOD HAVE JUSTICE FOR ALL ,sooner or later.

I guess the problem is that Chris Evans, and the Australian government do not work for or answer to prospective immigrants. Their primary responsibility is to the Australian tax payer - the voters who elected them in the first place.

 

Likewise, the immigration process does not exist for the benefit of prospective immigrants or to allow people to fulfil their dreams. The entire system is in place to fill skill shortages and thus help drive the Australian economy. As soon a skill shortage has been filled, or other skills have been deemed higher priority, then it makes perfect sense that the goalposts will be moved accordingly.

 

Yes, this will have a big effect on prospective immigrants - that is only natural for such a huge life-changing process - but on the other hand it would be very difficult for a government to explain to their voters that even though a skill shortage has been filled, the remaining applicants (maybe in their thousands) will still be processed - thus turning a skills shortage into a skills surplus and resulting increases in unemployment and welfare claims. This would quickly be seen as a government who had lost control over the immigration process and would undoubtedly be reflected as soon as election time arrived.

 

I know this is easy for me to say, having never been through the undeniably difficult and stressful skilled immigration process, but I think anyone applying for this type of visa has to acknowledge the fact that there is a certain 'lottery' aspect to it. If your skill is no longer in the same demand as it was when you applied then your application will be downgraded or rejected. This is a responsibilty the Australian government holds to their citizens - and unfortunately no such responsibility exists to the rejected applicants. Whether or not there should be a full or partial refund of fees or whether communications could be greatly improved is another argument.

 

I might regret saying it but there does seem to be a sense of entitlement by some applicants that the Australian government holds more responsibility over their dreams and aspirations than it does the careful management of its economy and workforce. If my government prioritised things this way round, especially in these economically uncertain times, then I would probably have to vote for 'the other guys'.

 

Just my two cents.

[electrical guy]

Likewise, the immigration process does not exist for the benefit of prospective immigrants or to allow people to fulfil their dreams. The entire system is in place to fill skill shortages and thus help drive the Australian economy. As soon a skill shortage has been filled, or other skills have been deemed higher priority, then it makes perfect sense that the goalposts will be moved accordingly

 

hi llesur here is the point mate, then definitely i shouldnt be one of that ceased applicants as my occupation remain always on sol and smp and state sponsored guy .theres nothing correlation between ceased one and skills they needed .its just a matter of politics they are playing to show they are different from past govt in immi policies indifferent about how these could be harmful to economy in long run.they are doing hit & trial instead of going through planned and transparent way

 

I guess the problem is that Chris Evans, and the Australian government do not work for or answer to prospective immigrants. Their primary responsibility is to the Australian tax payer - the voters who elected them in the first place.

 

so then oz tax payers are lotted by govt legaly coz there hard earned money spenting on boat/asylum seekers having no skills at least to benefit oz eco .but sure they are planting voters for their bright future

[ducktape]

Llessur – I think you are spot on; I went through an agent who explained the whole process start to finish and then went on to say pretty much what you have said. I think some people hear it but don’t acknowledge it then as time passes this fades and when the goal posts are changed are upset (which is fair enough), even though it had been explained to them. Emigrating is a tuff process emotionally, which is why I think some one wanting to emigrate must carefully consider it from the moment they start the paperwork.

 

We have no sound immigration policy in this country anymore since joining the EU and we also have even poorer licensing laws (tradesmen are a great example), anyone can do anything and not be answerable. There are so many things that need to be revised in this country and I can’t see it happening any time soon. Australia has a set of conditions to get in, then there are more conditions (in the case of tradesmen which affects me and others) when you arrive, complying is part of the process.

 

Electricalguy – I m not sure I understand if you are still on the skills list, smp list, why you can not continue ? What does asylum seekers have to do with the immigration philosophy of an individual or family?