This makes worrying reading.

[tonyman]

To be Honest Tony, until you have been in those situations it’s hard to explain to anyone how intimidating it can be. I worked on the Ambulance service, and we had certain addresses that we would not attend without police back up. But you have to have 'lived it' to know what it’s like.

 

srp, i know where your coming from pal and to this day i feel lucky to be alive after some of the situations i found myself in while in the uk.................worked all over the uk out of town and im so glad those days are over , if i want to work out of town here i probs fly to Karratha ,swim in the Indian Ocean during the evenings taking in the rays with some cold beers .......now thats what i call working away ...............:wink:

[Guest guest30038]

there is nothing to say that the average person living in an average street is any safer in either country

 

There ya go again Chris.

 

Despite my constant counter-argument regarding how "Mr Average" sees crime here and in the UK, you constantly either trot out the same generalisations or don't respond at all.

 

I would class myself as "average" as would 4 other PIO families living within a couple of k's of me. They also classed themselves as living in an "average" area in the UK and living in an "average" area here. They feel much safer here, and that isn't a perception of crime levels being lower, it's a fact.

 

Despite your constant harping on this subject, and quoting of crime figures, the fact is that every migrant that I know personally will clearly state that they are safer here. That's not a perception, it's a fact, They do not experience the crime levels here that they did in the UK because migration has afforded them a 2nd chance to pick where they live. For many, that option was not available to them in the UK.

 

Just because you experience a different view of crime levels in the UK because of where you chose to visit and where you choose to locate eventually, does not give you the right to question others' opinions/experiences. Sometimes your arguments verge on calling those with different experiences, liars. If they say that they feel safer here, and their experiences bear that out, who the hell are you to tell them that it is just their perception and not fact?................over...............and over.............and over again :rolleyes: :arghh:

 

I'm safer here OK! So are many others. Crime figures mean nothing if you live in a relatively crime free area..............that seems to be common sense to me, so why, when someone says that they feel safer, do you always have to try and prove that it is just a perception and not their genuine experience? UK or OZ, it matters not which. Folk post their experiences on here and you somehow, you just have to question their experience, just because yours may be different.

 

kev

[Guest Aldo]

There ya go again Chris.

 

Despite my constant counter-argument regarding how "Mr Average" sees crime here and in the UK, you constantly either trot out the same generalisations or don't respond at all.

 

I would class myself as "average" as would 4 other PIO families living within a couple of k's of me. They also classed themselves as living in an "average" area in the UK and living in an "average" area here. They feel much safer here, and that isn't a perception of crime levels being lower, it's a fact.

 

Despite your constant harping on this subject, and quoting of crime figures, the fact is that every migrant that I know personally will clearly state that they are safer here. That's not a perception, it's a fact, They do not experience the crime levels here that they did in the UK because migration has afforded them a 2nd chance to pick where they live. For many, that option was not available to them in the UK.

 

Just because you experience a different view of crime levels in the UK because of where you chose to visit and where you choose to locate eventually, does not give you the right to question others' opinions/experiences. Sometimes your arguments verge on calling those with different experiences, liars. If they say that they feel safer here, and their experiences bear that out, who the hell are you to tell them that it is just their perception and not fact?................over...............and over.............and over again :rolleyes: :arghh:

 

I'm safer here OK! So are many others. Crime figures mean nothing if you live in a relatively crime free area..............that seems to be common sense to me, so why, when someone says that they feel safer, do you always have to try and prove that it is just a perception and not their genuine experience? UK or OZ, it matters not which. Folk post their experiences on here and you somehow, you just have to question their experience, just because yours may be different.

 

kev

 

 

There you go then case closed.

 

ITS OFFICIAL!!

 

Kev (who lives in his nice mortgage free house with pool, jacuzzi, 500 fish tanks nice cars (did have a boat outside) and calls himself mr average:wideeyed:) and FOUR (yes4) families who live up the road, class themselves as the average aussie families.:biglaugh:

 

I'm realy trying hard at this "mr nice" thing but this constant jumping on chrisses posts is bordering on bullying. If you dissagree say so without the spiteful little digs.

I don't agree with a lot he says but he has a right to heard with out all this cr4p.

 

 

nearly forgot the emoticons (cos that makes everything OK):wink:

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Guest guest36187]

Can anyone ever just accept what people say as their opinion rather than fight about it?

[Guest Aldo]

Can anyone ever just accept what people say as their opinion rather than fight about it?

 

seems not:cute:

[Guest guest36187]

This drives me mad, I`ll be honest. PIO is all about peoples expereinces and sharing them.

 

It doesnt matter whether we agree with them or have had the same experiences. It just matters whether we can pass on our experiences and whether we can help someone with it

[Guest sunnyday]

This drives me mad, I`ll be honest. PIO is all about peoples expereinces and sharing them.

 

It doesnt matter whether we agree with them or have had the same experiences. It just matters whether we can pass on our experiences and whether we can help someone with it

 

Indeed :notworthy: Drives me mad too, it puts people off from sharing cos someones always ready to jump down their throat!

[Guest guest30038]

There you go then case closed.

 

ITS OFFICIAL!!

 

Kev (who lives in his nice mortgage free house with pool, jacuzzi, 500 fish tanks nice cars (did have a boat outside) and calls himself mr average:wideeyed:) and FOUR (yes4) families who live up the road, class themselves as the average aussie families.:biglaugh:

 

I'm realy trying hard at this "mr nice" thing but this constant jumping on chrisses posts is bordering on bullying. If you dissagree say so without the spiteful little digs.

I don't agree with a lot he says but he has a right to heard with out all this cr4p.

 

 

nearly forgot the emoticons (cos that makes everything OK):wink:

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

 

I don't think you're trying hard at all Aldo, and it hasn't gone un-noticed (by others as well as myself) that you are as quick to jump on my posts as you are to accuse others of jumping on Chris's.

 

Yes, I do consider myself as "average" and living in an average area with properties that fall within the median house price range..........my personal "wealth" has nothing at all to do with "average" as quoted in the context of Chris's post as you well know.

 

As for bullying, if that's aimed at me, then you're well off the mark, most members here know who the real bullies are. I countered Chris's constant declaration/s that those who feel safer (a fact) are either deluded or choose to ignore the reality. It is Chris who chooses to ignore the reality that many are safer here, and do not merely have a perception of safety. It doesn't matter whether my experience is of 4 families or 4000.........they are our experiences which is exactly what I am portraying as a counter to Chris's posts about it simply being a perception witjh no basis in fact. If we say we are are safer and someone else says we aren't, than that is tantamount to calling us liars. Why does our experience have to be questioned constantly?

 

Now feel free to jump on my case again if you consider my expression of my reality and that of others as being bullying. I'm only to happy to keep you happy :goofy:

 

....................Now where's that ignore button? :rolleyes:

 

kev

[Guest chris955]

It is sad really, this is why I ignore most of his posts, his view is right and I am just being awkward. When I say quite rightly that there is little difference between the crime rates and indeed the amount of crime the average person witnesses is pretty much the same in either country the 'pro' Australia crowd immediately jump on me as if I have just insulted their mothers. I could say I feel safer in the UK but that isn't the case, I haven't felt unsafe in either country to be honest.

If someone says they feel safer in Perth than they did in Glasgow then fair enough but to say basically the whole of the UK is unsafe, your kids can't play outside and anything left outside will be stolen is quite frankly absurd. Then to be told that because my experiences don't equal someone else's I am too argumentative is just juvenile.

If someone wants to believe everything is bad in the UK and it makes people sleep at night that's fine but I'm damned if I'll agree if it is clearly untrue for me and my friends.

I am truly happy that people are happy and wouldn't move back to the UK but that does not make their view of things correct and everyone else wrong.

I agree though, it drives me mad as well.

 

There you go then case closed.

 

ITS OFFICIAL!!

 

Kev (who lives in his nice mortgage free house with pool, jacuzzi, 500 fish tanks nice cars (did have a boat outside) and calls himself mr average:wideeyed:) and FOUR (yes4) families who live up the road, class themselves as the average aussie families.:biglaugh:

 

I'm realy trying hard at this "mr nice" thing but this constant jumping on chrisses posts is bordering on bullying. If you dissagree say so without the spiteful little digs.

I don't agree with a lot he says but he has a right to heard with out all this cr4p.

 

 

nearly forgot the emoticons (cos that makes everything OK):wink:

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Guest guest36187]

Both views, although different are right! They are your own experiences and opinions.

 

Respect each other and GET OVER IT!

[Guest chris955]

 

EXACTLY.

My point is and always is that to say everyone is safer here than everyone in the UK or in fact anywhere else is ridiculous, surely that can't be hard to understand ? All I have ever said is that not everyone will be better off or happier or safer that comes here. If I said I felt safer in England than I ever have in Australia I would know exactly who would be straight on here replying. It seems perfectly OK to say that people walk around the UK looking over their shoulders ?

I feel perfectly safe where I live, it's a good area, there was a stabbing 2 streets over last year but I still feel safe. I also felt safe where I lived in the UK, why is that considered wrong ? I'm an average person living in an average area but I can't speak for every average person in the country and nor would I try to.

 

 

[Guest guest36187]

Kev and Chris, Even though you disagree please respect each others views and opinions. Then we can all move on and get away from UK versus Australia

[Guest chris955]

I rarely reply to anything he says so no problem from me.

[Afro Developer]

Slightly unrelated but to give an idea of perception. Lived in my street for over four years now. Nothing ever happens apart from the odd disgruntled parent arguing over parking when picking up kids from the school opposite. Anyway, girlfriends mum came over from South Africa for a few weeks. During her stay we had gun shots outside one Saturday night, whilst the following Saturday the guy in the flat below had his scooter nicked from the communal front garden. Both events were quite random and rare. Nerveless, it has dented my girlfriends mums opinion of where we stay.

[Guest guest30038]

It is sad really, this is why I ignore most of his posts, his view is right and I am just being awkward. When I say quite rightly that there is little difference between the crime rates and indeed the amount of crime the average person witnesses is pretty much the same in either country the 'pro' Australia crowd immediately jump on me as if I have just insulted their mothers. I could say I feel safer in the UK but that isn't the case, I haven't felt unsafe in either country to be honest.

If someone says they feel safer in Perth than they did in Glasgow then fair enough but to say basically the whole of the UK is unsafe, your kids can't play outside and anything left outside will be stolen is quite frankly absurd. Then to be told that because my experiences don't equal someone else's I am too argumentative is just juvenile.

If someone wants to believe everything is bad in the UK and it makes people sleep at night that's fine but I'm damned if I'll agree if it is clearly untrue for me and my friends.

I am truly happy that people are happy and wouldn't move back to the UK but that does not make their view of things correct and everyone else wrong.

I agree though, it drives me mad as well.

 

I don't want to personalise this as I have nothing against anyone on this forum, least-wise you. You have often spoken, not only with respect to crime figures, but other matters also and accused posters of either being blinkered or choosing to ignore facts. That is totally denying the validity of others' experiences and has nothing to do with the pro or anti lobby. You have a tendency to generalise and I and others will always attempt to counter generalisations...........nothing to do with pro or anti or bullying.

 

I love both countries as I have often stated and I have never slagged off or praised either by way of generalising about either country as a whole.........I quote my experiences and those of folk that I know.

 

For you to state, as you have in the past, that facts do not support the feelings and experiences that others have of either country, is belittling and denying them and their experiences...........as I say, tantamount to calling them liars. Now I don't think for one minute that this is intentional, but it needs to be countered so that others do not get the impression that by coming here, they will be no safer than they would back in the UK. Many are, and for you to question that, and to give potential migrants the impression that our experiences are not genuine, is simply misleading and unfair.

 

If this isn't clear enough to you, then I'm sorry.........I'm doing my best to try and make you see why you get flack. It is not personal.

 

kev

[Guest guest30038]

EXACTLY.

My point is and always is that to say everyone is safer here than everyone in the UK or in fact anywhere else is ridiculous, surely that can't be hard to understand ? All I have ever said is that not everyone will be better off or happier or safer that comes here.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Chris but I have yet to see a post where someone has said that everyone is safer here. If anything, it is you who has denied others saying that they are safer here by posting that the crime figures do not bear that out. As I say, crime figures mean nothing if you live in a crime free area.

 

kev

[Guest Guest31881]

Slightly unrelated but to give an idea of perception. Lived in my street for over four years now. Nothing ever happens apart from the odd disgruntled parent arguing over parking when picking up kids from the school opposite. Anyway, girlfriends mum came over from South Africa for a few weeks. During her stay we had gun shots outside one Saturday night, whilst the following Saturday the guy in the flat below had his scooter nicked from the communal front garden. Both events were quite random and rare. Nerveless, it has dented my girlfriends mums opinion of where we stay.

 

 

Well yes I can see why she would have an adverse opinion, but as you say its all down to perception. You may never have another problem, but she will always remember what happened when she was there.

[Guest guest30038]

Kev and Chris, Even though you disagree please respect each others views and opinions. Then we can all move on and get away from UK versus Australia

 

Sorry Joanne?:wideeyed: I can't see where this is a UK versus Australia thing? I rarely, if ever, mention the UK as I have no idea what goes on there, being here for 15 yrs. My "debate" is in regards to being told constantly that I am blinkered or choosing to ignore crime here, when the fact of the matter is that I don't experience it.

 

kev

[Guest chris955]

Yes very valid point, it can often take just one or two incidents to totally alter your perception. Regardless of whether the incidents had ever happened before or were likely to ever happen again it is what that person sees and understandably skew their view.

 

Slightly unrelated but to give an idea of perception. Lived in my street for over four years now. Nothing ever happens apart from the odd disgruntled parent arguing over parking when picking up kids from the school opposite. Anyway, girlfriends mum came over from South Africa for a few weeks. During her stay we had gun shots outside one Saturday night, whilst the following Saturday the guy in the flat below had his scooter nicked from the communal front garden. Both events were quite random and rare. Nerveless, it has dented my girlfriends mums opinion of where we stay.

[Guest guest30038]

I rarely reply to anything he says so no problem from me.

 

Sounds personal :eek:

 

kev

[Guest Aldo]

Throwing crime statistics at everyone (especially 10yr old stats) does nothing to enhance anyone’s standing. It is always down to the individual and the perceived risk to them and their loved ones.

 

I presume this was aimed at me.

So FYI here are the latest stats (only upto 2008 i'm afraid)

UNODC crime and criminal justice statistics

Don't get too exited though. Australia is still right up there :sad:

[calNgary]

Crime stats dont bother me, infact i rarely click the links or bother toread them.

 

I know that FOR ME living where WE live, there is little crime and i and my children are safer here than where we were or what we were used to (and i didnt live in a crap area of the uk), and more than anything i am not delusional !!

 

Yeah you get petty thefts, last week some kid had a push scooter stolen, some guy was locked up for abusing his wife, another guy was found with a stolen lawnmower and whipper snipper and a house was busted for growing weed.

These petty crimes i can handle and when harder crime does eventually happen on a regular basis around here (which as the population grows ,it will) ,i will move on.

 

If anyone is looking to move here to experience less crime, then it is possible, you just need to research and select areas carefully.

 

Cal x

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.

 

Everyones views and life experiences are different, for me crime was never a factor on our decision to emigrate. I do not feel as though i am going to be a victim of crime here in the uk and i felt really safe in Perth and Brisbane.

 

As cal says you can find low crime areas, just do your research.

[Guest BrightonBoys]

The way I see it is thus: I felt safer in both Melbourne and Sydney than I do i Brighton and most def than I do in London. I don't care what the stats say it is how I feel.

 

This is also the way I see it: Certain posters here on the whole of PIO (and not just Chris) are for what ever reason not having a good time in Oz and their life is not how they envisaged it and therefore everything they read or see and then write turns into an anti oz/life is better in the UK etc etc. Even if they don't mean it to be it comes across like that because of the perception we have of them.

What those posters have to remember is that for some, their live in Oz is exactly how they want it to be, they see themselves as Mr/s Pom living the life they want to with people they want to in a country they want to.

 

PIO is on the whole an upbeat place to come and be, ask questions, get advice, create support networks for the future. Its why I am here. I know that life down under is not going to be easy, will not be a bed of roses (or what ever other cliches there are) but I am going to bloody well do it no matter what other disillusioned expats say.

[Guest Aldo]

The way I see it is thus: I felt safer in both Melbourne and Sydney than I do i Brighton and most def than I do in London. I don't care what the stats say it is how I feel.

 

This is also the way I see it: Certain posters here on the whole of PIO (and not just Chris) are for what ever reason not having a good time in Oz and their life is not how they envisaged it and therefore everything they read or see and then write turns into an anti oz/life is better in the UK etc etc. Even if they don't mean it to be it comes across like that because of the perception we have of them.

What those posters have to remember is that for some, their live in Oz is exactly how they want it to be, they see themselves as Mr/s Pom living the life they want to with people they want to in a country they want to.

 

PIO is on the whole an upbeat place to come and be, ask questions, get advice, create support networks for the future. Its why I am here. I know that life down under is not going to be easy, will not be a bed of roses (or what ever other cliches there are) but I am going to bloody well do it no matter what other disillusioned expats say.

 

You Go Girl....:notworthy:

 

:wink: